What Is the Nature of Orbits in an Inverse-Square Potential?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a particle of mass m moving in an inverse-square potential, specifically V(r) = gamma/r^2. Participants explore the nature of orbits with non-zero angular momentum and the effective potential associated with this system, while attempting to sketch trajectories and understand the implications of energy conservation.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to analyze the effective potential and its implications for the orbits without deriving the trajectory equations. They express confusion regarding the relationship between energy and the trajectory equations. Other participants suggest substitutions and transformations to simplify the equations, while questioning the validity of using certain energy expressions.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging with the problem, offering suggestions for substitutions and transformations to aid in finding the trajectory equations. There is recognition of the challenges posed by the lack of a textbook and varying formula interpretations. Some participants are exploring different aspects of the problem, but no consensus has been reached on the best approach.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the absence of a textbook for reference, which contributes to confusion over the formulas and methods applicable to the problem. The discussion includes references to related questions and concepts that may influence the understanding of the current problem.

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a particle of mass m moves in a potential V(r) = gamma/r^2 where the constant gamma >0

a) Sketch an effective potential and discuss the nature of the non zero angular momentum (L not zero) orbits without solving for the equation of the trajectory

i know that [tex]V_{eff} = V(r) + \frac{L^2}{2mr^2}[/tex]
here [tex]V_{eff} = \frac{1}{r^2} (\gamma + \frac{L^2}{2m})[/tex]
so it will look like an inverse square graph as in the digram


Calculate the equation of the trajectories discuss their shapes and sketch a typical trajectory

one thing that's got me with this question is that i can't solve for r(t) or even r(phi) because their formulas involve using E which depends on (dr/dt)^2 and i don't end up getting anything solvable. Have a look
for r(t)
[tex]r(t) = \sqrt{\frac{2}{m} (E - V_{eff}(r))}[/tex]
but [tex]E = \frac{1}{2} m \dot{r}^2 + V(r) + \frac{L^2}{2mr^2}[/tex]
and that yeilds nothing useful
am i doing something wrong? Is energy supposed to be zero? But why?

there are two more parts which i will post later on. they are related to a and b.
 

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stunner,
Your answer to part A looks right. To find the equation of the trajectory, there is a nice trick you can apply. Make the substitution [tex]u=\frac{1}{r}[/tex] and try finding [tex]u(\phi)[/tex]. You will see that the differential equation involving [itex]u[/itex] and [itex]\phi[/itex] can be solved and you will be able to find [tex]u(\phi)[/tex].

In more detail, since [tex]r=\frac{1}{u}[/tex]

[tex]\frac{dr}{dt} = -\frac{1}{u^2} \frac{du}{dt} = -\frac{1}{u^2} \frac{du}{d\theta} \frac{d\theta}{dt}[/tex] where [tex]\frac{d\theta}{dt} = \omega[/tex].

So, substituting for v ([itex]\frac{dr}{dt}[/itex]) in the energy equation you wrote in terms of [itex]\frac{du}{d\theta}[/itex] and [itex]u[/itex], you get

[tex]E = V(u) + \frac{L^2 u^2}{2m} + \frac{1}{2}m(\frac{-L}{m}\frac{du}{d\theta})^2[/tex].

Now differentiate this equation with respect to theta. Can you see that [itex]\frac{du}{d\theta}[/itex] will cancel?

The resulting differential equation you get can then be solved which will give you u (and hence r) as a function of theta. Can you take it from here?
 
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Thank You !

alrighty so i had the right idea... the thing is we don't have a textbook for this course and there are so many versioins of the same ofrmula! Anyway here are the ther two questions

If [itex](r_{m},\phi_{m})[/itex] are the planbe polar coordiantes of the perigee, evalute phi m (b) and from this calculate the impace parameter b in terms of the angle of scattering theta. Use this result to compute the differential scattering corss setion in terms of gamma, E and theta

The perigee represents a minimum distance between the mass and thecenter of motion. So to simply differentiate phi(r) w.r.t. r and plug that eqal to szero should yield the answer b.
if you could have a look at this thread too that would be awesome too
based on a similar concept
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=106913
 
Last edited:
siddharth said:
stunner,
Your answer to part A looks right. To find the equation of the trajectory, there is a nice trick you can apply. Make the substitution [tex]u=\frac{1}{r}[/tex] and try finding [tex]u(\phi)[/tex]. You will see that the differential equation involving [itex]u[/itex] and [itex]\phi[/itex] can be solved and you will be able to find [tex]u(\phi)[/tex].

In more detail, since [tex]r=\frac{1}{u}[/tex]

[tex]\frac{dr}{dt} = -\frac{1}{u^2} \frac{du}{dt} = -\frac{1}{u^2} \frac{du}{d\theta} \frac{d\theta}{dt}[/tex] where [tex]\frac{d\theta}{dt} = \omega[/tex].

So, substituting for v ([itex]\frac{dr}{dt}[/itex]) in the energy equation you wrote in terms of [itex]\frac{du}{d\theta}[/itex] and [itex]u[/itex], you get

[tex]E = V(u) + \frac{L^2 u^2}{2m} + \frac{1}{2}m(\frac{-L}{m}\frac{du}{d\theta})^2[/tex].

Now differentiate this equation with respect to theta. Can you see that [itex]\frac{du}{d\theta}[/itex] will cancel?

The resulting differential equation you get can then be solved which will give you u (and hence r) as a function of theta. Can you take it from here?


first of all I am not quite sure if i am supposd to be using that version of E in this problem
what does [itex]\frac{dE}{d \theta}[/itex] yield that is useful?

also i get a differential equation with (u'')^2 which cnat be solved
 
stunner5000pt said:
first of all I am not quite sure if i am supposd to be using that version of E in this problem
what does [itex]\frac{dE}{d \theta}[/itex] yield that is useful?
also i get a differential equation with (u'')^2 which cnat be solved

In my post, [tex]\theta[/tex] was the polar angle. So [tex]\frac{dE}{d \theta}[/tex] is 0 because total energy is conserved. I'm pretty sure you don't get a (u'')^2 term. You could post and show where you are stuck.
 
Last edited:

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