View Full Version : Whites only scholarship
Here is the link to the article.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=519&ncid=519&e=14&u=/ap/20040320/ap_on_re_us/whites_only_scholarship_2
I've seen a lot of black only, or Native American only, and lots of other *insert minority* only scholarships, but when some one makes a white only scholarship people freak out. That seems to be racism to white people.
That's because Republicans are racists.[g)]
Seriously, though, there is no such thing as "white heritage". The whole idea really IS racist.
Monique
Mar21-04, 05:08 AM
Originally posted by Zero
Seriously, though, there is no such thing as "white heritage". The whole idea really IS racist. The whole idea is to fight affirmative action, to raise the issue and talk about it. They sure did a very good job, and no, it is nót racist. And Zero -I probably shouldn't go into this- there is no white heritage? That means there is no black heritage either.
Originally posted by Monique
The whole idea is to fight affirmative action, to raise the issue and talk about it. They sure did a very good job, and no, it is nót racist. And Zero -I probably shouldn't go into this- there is no white heritage? That means there is no black heritage either. No so, and of course they are racist. They don't want to fight AA, they want to fight equality.
There is an artificial black culture in America because Africans from other cultures were uprooted and their heratige destroyed.
What is "white" culture? There's no such thing.
Monique
Mar21-04, 05:35 AM
The same for all the whites who were uprooted and their heritage destroyed for moving to the US. If there is no American white culture, there is no American black culture either! (hence equality)
They want to fight equality, where in the article did you get that from?
Jason Mattera, a junior who started the conservative campus group in his freshman year, said kindling debate over free speech and affirmative action was just what he wanted — and he promises more. Despite initial plans to make the scholarship annual, Mattera said it won't be offered next year.
cookiemonster
Mar21-04, 05:39 AM
Oh, wow, a scholarship I could actually get money from.
cookiemonster
Monique
Mar21-04, 05:56 AM
Actually, before going to the US a few years ago I was looking for a scholarship or grant too because I absolutely didn't have any money and they're not going to pay for an exchange student over there.
Well, I was out of luck, because I don't belong to any of the minorities. And not having money is not considered being a minority, which I think is totally racist and short-sighted. Not having money should make you eligible for a grant, not being Jewish!
So in the end I didn't find any scholarship or grant I could apply to (the one I could, I missed the deadline). Luckily I was able to go anyway by the generosity of people at whose place I stayed.
cookiemonster
Mar21-04, 06:05 AM
It gets worse.
Even if I apply for and somehow win a scholarship, I still don't get any money. They order the winners and start handing out money, based on need, from the top down until they run out. Since my parents make enough money to pay for college, as far as scholarships and the government is concerned, I'd just get passed right by. Naturally, it doesn't help that my parents spend just as much as they make...
Although I could get a full ride plus incentives if I wanted to go to Arizona State, but that would involve staying in Arizona.
cookiemonster
Originally posted by cookiemonster
It gets worse.
Even if I apply for and somehow win a scholarship, I still don't get any money. They order the winners and start handing out money, based on need, from the top down until they run out. Since my parents make enough money to pay for college, as far as scholarships and the government is concerned, I'd just get passed right by. Naturally, it doesn't help that my parents spend just as much as they make...
Although I could get a full ride plus incentives if I wanted to go to Arizona State, but that would involve staying in Arizona.
cookiemonster So, in other words, you CAN get a free college education, just not the exact college you want to get into? Shall I slap you for being an ungrateful little jerk NOW? Or shall I wait until later?[6)]
Monique
Mar21-04, 06:22 AM
Yes, so I think a whites-only scholarship is stupid, but that is what these students were thinking too! That is why they raise the issue: there are all these grants with special conditions, but it leaves certain groups out of the picture who then feel left out.
There are enough white people who come from minority families, just like black people do. Then why make the distinction? Because apparently they haven't catched up yet, which takes some time. That still means that the issue has to be raised from time to time.
cookiemonster
Mar21-04, 06:26 AM
Correct, Zero.
Dunno what's "ungrateful" about it, though.
cookiemonster
Originally posted by Monique
Yes, so I think a whites-only scholarship is stupid, but that is what these students were thinking too! That is why they raise the issue: there are all these grants with special conditions, but it leaves certain groups out of the picture who then feel left out.
There are enough white people who come from minority families, just like black people do. Then why make the distinction? Because apparently they haven't catched up yet, which takes some time. That still means that the issue has to be raised from time to time. There are scholarships for everyone. There's a scholarship for being Irish, German, English, etc...why should there be an artificial "white" scholarship as well, except because these kids are closet racists? I know as a blonde haired white woman, Monique, you know that racism only exists against white people...we've been over this ground before, you and I.[:(]
The reality is that there are scholarships for athletes, smart kids, amputees, children of firefighters, children of people who work a certain place, for those who plan on being teacher, the list goes on...but these racist students choose to ignore all of those, and focus on how hard, how very HARD it is to be white...pathetic.
cookiemonster
Mar21-04, 06:31 AM
How exactly does commenting on the number of scholarships for whites as compared to the number of scholarships for minorities equate to whites being racist?
cookiemonster
Originally posted by cookiemonster
How exactly does commenting on the number of scholarships for whites as compared to the number of scholarships for minorities equate to whites being racist?
cookiemonster Because they AREN'T comparing the number of scholarships handed out, they are complaining about black people getting scholarships. They aren't complaining about the plight of the non-athlete, the "c" student, the non-artistic, or anyone else who isn't eligible for certain scholarships.
I'm not having any more of these discussions, I'm sick of middle class white kids complaining because black kids get scholarships too.
cookiemonster
Mar21-04, 06:40 AM
Oh, okay. You're talking about in general. Thought you were referring to specifics.
cookiemonster
Originally posted by cookiemonster
Oh, okay. You're talking about in general. Thought you were referring to specifics.
cookiemonster Did you read the article? Not only do I find them racist and out of line, but so does the Republican Party, which censured them, and suspended their right to use Republican symbols. This specific group is a hate group who spends time targeting minority groups for ridicule and scorn. They don't want a debate, they want to attack people who aren't like them.
cookiemonster
Mar21-04, 06:49 AM
I skimmed it.
I don't much care about small political groups. They usually can't get enough done to concern me.
Besides, they're college students. They probably think they're supposed to act like jack-/smart-asses.
cookiemonster
wasteofo2
Mar21-04, 08:49 AM
Originally posted by Zero
Seriously, though, there is no such thing as "white heritage".
Are you serious about there being no "white heritage"? Have you forgotten about the Greeks and Romans? Have you forgotten about everything that happened during the European Renaissance, and all the great philosophers/leaders/scientists who came out of it and changed the world? Have you forgotten about the rebirth of democracy that people of European descent led to?
Every "race", or group of people has a "heritage", unless they just magically appeared recently and have no ancestors/past.
Monique
Mar21-04, 08:51 AM
In that sense I wonder what the black heritage would be.. is slavery the only heritage that you can have?
Monique
Mar21-04, 08:53 AM
And again, questioning whether affirmative action still has a place in the world in this day and age, doesn't make you a racist. Another example of the over-sensitive american society.
Originally posted by Monique
And again, questioning whether affirmative action still has a place in the world in this day and age, doesn't make you a racist. Another example of the over-sensitive american society. There are ways to question it, and ways not to question it, if'n you see my point.
Originally posted by wasteofo2
Are you serious about there being no "white heritage"? Have you forgotten about the Greeks and Romans? Have you forgotten about everything that happened during the European Renaissance, and all the great philosophers/leaders/scientists who came out of it and changed the world? Have you forgotten about the rebirth of democracy that people of European descent led to?
Every "race", or group of people has a "heritage", unless they just magically appeared recently and have no ancestors/past. Well, you've pointed out "Greek heritage", "Roman heritage", and each European country has its own heritage. The reason that black Americans get their own special heritage is because, speaking very generally, their specific national heritages were wiped out by slavery. This is a group which "magically appeared", in a manner of speaking, and they have had to create something special for themselves.
Originally posted by Monique
And again, questioning whether affirmative action still has a place in the world in this day and age, doesn't make you a racist. Another example of the over-sensitive american society.
Bravo Monique! Yes, american society can be very sensitive...personally, i don't think there should be ANY scholarships based on color, gender, race, or heritage...what happened to getting scholarships because you are particularly good at math, science or underwater basket weaving?? people do not "choose" the color of their skins, the ancestry the come from or the genitals they have (unless you are a transvestite-which i am not going there), but people can choose how to FIND and UTILIZE their talents, whether latent or obvious...
affirmative action has gone way too far from what i think it was originally intended to...equal rights for all, not special rights for some...
Originally posted by Zero
The reason that black Americans get their own special heritage is because, speaking very generally, their specific national heritages were wiped out by slavery. This is a group which "magically appeared", in a manner of speaking, and they have had to create something special for themselves.
don't forget the native americans whose land was stolen, don't forget the japanese who lived in "camps" during WWII, don't forget the women who weren't allowed to vote until the early 20th century...this could go on and on...every heritage and culture has had its hardships, but how long are we going to dwell on the past instead of focusing on the obliteration of ignorance of our future generations?
Originally posted by Kerrie
don't forget the native americans whose land was stolen, don't forget the japanese who lived in "camps" during WWII, don't forget the women who weren't allowed to vote until the early 20th century...this could go on and on...every heritage and culture has had its hardships, but how long are we going to dwell on the past instead of focusing on the obliteration of ignorance of our future generations? Well, you tell me, Kerrie...when are we going to insist on a proper education and health care for ALL children, when are we going to insist on equality from birth? When are we going to stop dividing up school districts to promote segregation? When are we going to insist on equal hiring practices and enforce it 100%? When are we going to take the racists and beat them silly with billy clubs?
When we get that under our belts(ok, maybe not the billy club bit), then Affirmative Action will not be necessary.
Originally posted by Zero
Well, you tell me, Kerrie...when are we going to insist on a proper education and health care for ALL children, when are we going to insist on equality from birth? When are we going to stop dividing up school districts to promote segregation? When are we going to insist on equal hiring practices and enforce it 100%? When are we going to take the racists and beat them silly with billy clubs?
When we get that under our belts(ok, maybe not the billy club bit), then Affirmative Action will not be necessary.
if we insist on some of these examples zero, then america would be socialist...what you are advocating here has to do with economics more then physical appearances and history of ancestry...as far as hiring practices go, would you want to work for an employer who based their decision on your color over your qualifications? even if your race got you the job over your qualifications?...when i apply for a job or take a survey that asks my gender and race, i do not answer--it's not necessary for them to know...i want to be hired for what i can do, not what i look like...
i think your particular sensitivity to the racial issue has a lot to do with where you personally reside...the southern USA is notorius for the prejudices...from my personal experiences, the rest of the usa is not so biased (at least the west isn't about that)...if you are sick of the racism and want ecomonic equality, canada might be the place for you [6)] ...just there on a work trip recently, and the friendliness and diversity of cultures is very predominant...
Monique
Mar21-04, 09:39 AM
Originally posted by Zero
The reason that black Americans get their own special heritage is because, speaking very generally, their specific national heritages were wiped out by slavery. This is a group which "magically appeared", in a manner of speaking, and they have had to create something special for themselves. Didn't every single group magically appear in the US and loose their heritage? How about all the Dutch immigrants? Should there be scholarships for Dutch immigrants especially, because they are a minority and are being overlooked? I REALLY think it is about time to stop talking about slavery. When did it get abolished? Several generations ago.
Originally posted by Monique
Didn't every single group magically appear in the US and loose their heritage? How about all the Dutch immigrants? Should there be scholarships for Dutch immigrants especially, because they are a minority and are being overlooked? I REALLY think it is about time to stop talking about slavery. When did it get abolished? Several generations ago. Aren't there Dutch scholarships? I know that there are Irish scholarships.
Monique
Mar21-04, 09:42 AM
That has to do with governments collaborating. What I am talking about is the naturalized Dutch people living in the US.
I'm going to drag myself back on topic if it kills me...
I feel that this is racially motivated, because every single group in this country, including all "white" people from different specific European backrounds, have a scholarship program just for them. Not only that, but there are scholarships based on artistic or athletic ability, parental employment, geographical location, gender, sexual identity, physical disability, club membership, political affiliation, promises to work in certain fields, physical disabilities, and even David Letterman's scholarship for "C" students. If you look hard enough, there is probably a scholarship for premature baldness, left-handedness, and even for people with a specific name.
Not everyone is eligible for every scholarship, so I feel that focusing on one specific type of scholarship while ignoring all the other types is racism-based.
Monique
Mar21-04, 10:00 AM
Ok, there is a reasonable argument you are making (rather than shouting fire when you smell smoke).
Originally posted by Monique
That has to do with governments collaborating. What I am talking about is the naturalized Dutch people living in the US. Funny you should mention that...behold the power of GOOGLE!!!!
The Netherland-America Foundation Inc. offers grants and education loans to Dutch students studying in America...how do you feel about that, is it wrong that I am not eligible for that because I am not Dutch?
Monique
Mar21-04, 10:12 AM
You quoted me, but did you actually read what I said?? "That has to do with governments collaborating" it is to establish political ties between the US and NL, where Dutch people are allowed to go to the US and US people are allowed to go to NL.
Also, those people are not naturalized US citizens, which I also mentioned as a criterium.
Oh, you meant to say "naturalized American citizens of Dutch descent"...you're right, that's a whole different subject. Although, as I look at it...those don't seem to be government funded, they are sponsored by private organizations.
Bystander
Mar21-04, 12:28 PM
Originally posted by Zero
(snip)
Not everyone is eligible for every scholarship,
Check.
so I feel that focusing on one specific type
Academic, athletic, children of the Moose Lodge? I'm not clear on what you mean about focus on "one type" here.
of scholarship while ignoring all the other types is racism-based.
This would be the kids in R.I. obsessing over the dearth (non-existent) of "white" scholarships?
*shrugs* There are tons of scholarshps the "white" kids can get...
Come on, this is the sort of behavior that only right-wing loser idiots try to pull...while at the same time talking out of the other side of their mouths to support their own brands of discrimination. Remember, private organizations have the right to discriminate however they like, isn't that a "conservative" principle? Then why are they horrified on the rare occasion that the "discrimination" doesn't go their way?
Monique
Mar21-04, 01:02 PM
But how long are we going to have to view color of skin as a disability?
Originally posted by Monique
But how long are we going to have to view color of skin as a disability? That's up to the racists, isn't it?
wasteofo2
Mar21-04, 01:15 PM
Originally posted by Monique
In that sense I wonder what the black heritage would be.. is slavery the only heritage that you can have?
Well, there's certainly the building of the pyramids, along with the fact that black people were the first people, used the first tools, etc. And then there's creating blues and jazz, from which all modern music stems.
wasteofo2
Mar21-04, 01:21 PM
Originally posted by Zero
That's up to the racists, isn't it?
That's a rather defeatist attitude...
You're just going to leave it up to racists to decide when blacks are no longer looked upon as inferior? Or perhaps I misunderstood you...
Monique makes a good point about how people should stop looking at skin color as a disability. Giving black people money for college based solely on the fact that they're black is bassically acknowledging that you think black people are all poorer than white people and need more help as a race. I'm sure that the statistics would show that a larger percent of black people are poor than white people, however there are plenty of white people, latinos, asians etc. who are just as poor as any black people. And I realize that there are plenty of latino/asian/whatever minority scholarship funds etc. But zero, don't you think it would be best if scholarships were given to people based on how much money they have rather than skin color?
Monique
Mar21-04, 01:29 PM
Originally posted by wasteofo2
That's a rather defeatist attitude...
You're just going to leave it up to racists to decide when blacks are no longer looked upon as inferior? Or perhaps I misunderstood you... I was just going to say the same. I don't think there are any prejudices that keep you from going to a good school and getting you good grades.
Sometimes I wonder why we (us posters) aren't actually politicians and really changing the world rather than talking about it [;)]
Originally posted by Monique
I was just going to say the same. I don't think there are any prejudices that keep you from going to a good school and getting you good grades. Yes, there are, actually...in the way that schools are funded and school districts are drafted.
Monique
Mar21-04, 01:31 PM
and that means?
wasteofo2
Mar21-04, 01:34 PM
Originally posted by Monique
and that means?
There are alot of poor areas which are inhabited by alot of minorities which get bad funding for their schools. Thus, these minority populated areas get bad educations as a whole and the people who live there have a worse shot at leading a productive life than people who live in mostly white suburbs. However, having bad teachers and being poor doesn't stop one from doing their homework, studying for tests, and educating themself to try to get out of the vicious cycle of poor education and poverty. Someone who is poor, goes to a bad school, but works diligently has many types of non race based scholarships available to them. However, if the person who does good work despite his poor school system is Puertorican, he'll certainly try to take advantage of Puertorican/Latino scholarship funds.
Monique
Mar21-04, 01:36 PM
Oh ok.. in that sense.. I have seen the same in Detroit, where there was a really big shortage on teachers. But does poor mean black?? Shouldn't being poor be the qualifying characteristic as I mentioned earlier??
Monique
Mar21-04, 01:38 PM
Hey! Today is anti-racism day [:))]
First off, it's a *private* scholarship. Essentially it's somebody taking their own money and giving it to someone else. For all I care, they could make it exculsive to seven-foot tall men with green hair -- essentially, what you guys are complaining about is not that these people are giving out the scholarship this way, but that the people are announcing their intention to discriminate based on race in a particular fashion.
Really, what's so different about an 'white only' scholarship and a 'black only' scholarship that makes the 'black only' scholarship ok, but the white only scholarship a bad thing?
Regarding Zero's claims that U.S. 'white' is not a different culture than the various european 'white' cultures: There are many significant differences between the 'white' european socieities and 'white' in the US. In general, the customs that are prevalant in the US tend to be more puritanical, and more archaic versions of the customs that are prevalent in Europe such as using both knife and fork with the same hand, and strong nudity taboos.
It's also gotten to the point that in many West Coast universities, 'white' students are underrepresented, and 'asian' students are overrepresented so they have a harder time getting in. This situtation indicates that perhaps affirmative action should be applied to white students.
I'm all for creating social equity, but most of the rhetoric that I see is not about that, but about furthering someone's political agenda. People willinging assume that the representative disparity is because of social bias when there are other potential causes.
The goal of many of the people who are doing this type of thing is to point out that the racist policies of affirmative action are not held up to any real standards of performance -- there is no real indication of how the success or failure of affirmative action programs will be measured, when what milestones should be reached.
wasteofo2
Mar21-04, 01:41 PM
Originally posted by Monique
Oh ok.. in that sense.. I have seen the same in Detroit, where there was a really big shortage on teachers. But does poor mean black?? Shouldn't being poor be the qualifying characteristic as I mentioned earlier??
Being poor should be the deciding factor in scholarships, since there are plenty of white people in poor areas. It seems that zero's saying that black people/other minorities are specifically discriminated against in these areas...
Monique
Mar21-04, 01:42 PM
Very eloquently said NateTG [:))]
Bystander
Mar21-04, 02:20 PM
Originally posted by Zero
*Come on, this is the sort of behavior that only right-wing loser idiots try to pull...while at the same time talking out of the other side of their mouths to support their own brands of discrimination. Remember, private organizations have the right to discriminate however they like, isn't that a "conservative" principle?
--- and, R. Williams is a $20k tuition/a private school.
Then why are they horrified on the rare occasion that the "discrimination"
By the ACLU? Suggesting the campus admin shouldn't be blocking funding for a student organization?
doesn't go their way?
I agree that affirmative action needs to be altered. Plenty of blacks were able to graduate from college and do well pre affirmative action. But why are there scholarships for blacks in the first place? Wouldn't the time between slavery and the civil rights movement be affirmative action for whites? Slavery/segregation has had tramatic psychological effects that still affects blacks today. I'm not saying that it warrants affirmative action but that it's still a valid issue that needs to be discussed. That time period still connects to issues that blacks are dealing with today (incarceration, poverty, self image, etc)
Dagenais
Mar22-04, 07:01 PM
There are black and native American scholarships.
Not Asians. In fact, many Universities try to put a cease on Asians entering because too many surpass the requirements keeping other people from getting in.
Anyone who makes decisions about other peoples futures and prevents people from entering education due to race is a racist. This applies to black only scolarships as well as anything else. There is no reason why black people should have lower admission standards to college than anyone else.
The fact is that black people consistently score lower on standardised tests than any other people, including asians and whites growing up in similar circumstances. If the asians grow up in a poor disadvantaged neighbourhood, then they work hard and try to get into a good university. The blacks see 50 cent as their role model and commit crime to try and get some money. This attitude has to change.
Monique
Mar27-04, 11:18 AM
The fact is that black people consistently score lower on standardised tests than any other people, including asians and whites growing up in similar circumstances.
No, that is not a fact.
If the asians grow up in a poor disadvantaged neighbourhood, then they work hard and try to get into a good university. The blacks see 50 cent as their role model and commit crime to try and get some money. This attitude has to change.
This attitude is in fact racist. You are generalizing your opinion for a whole group based on skin color, that is just wrong. The only Asians you see are the ones that succeed and free themselves from poverty, while 'blacks' (whatever that means) are around either case.
No, that is not a fact.
It's vauge and the phrasing is poor, but the statement is essentially factual in nature -- depending on what 'standardized tests' and 'black' mean it can be experimentally verified. My understanding is that people who self-identify as black do worse as a population than people who self-identify as white on the SAT's.
Although the second part of the post is indeed racist, ignorant, and insensitive, the notion that there are performance differences due to cultural differences is not unreasonable.
phatmonky
Mar27-04, 11:37 AM
It's vauge and the phrasing is poor, but the statement is essentially factual in nature -- depending on what 'standardized tests' and 'black' mean it can be experimentally verified. My understanding is that people who self-identify as black do worse as a population than people who self-identify as white on the SAT's.
.
Exactly, and that fact is what lends people to calling the SAT 'racist'
Monique
Mar27-04, 11:38 AM
Sure, there are cultural difference.. but culture is something different from skin color. I am very sure that if I were to take a SAT or a GRE I would score below my ability. Just because I am not familiar with the testing format that is used in the US.
Plus in fact mentioned a condition to the tests:
The fact is that black people consistently score lower on standardised tests than any other people, including asians and whites growing up in similar circumstances.
That would leave out cultural variation and only leave in skin color, thus the statement is not true.
Janitor
Mar27-04, 12:04 PM
people to calling the SAT 'racist'--phatmonky
Is it fair to conclude that Asians must be in charge of writing the SAT tests, i.e. that the SATs are Asian-centric, and thus non-Asian students do relatively poorly?
Monique
Mar27-04, 12:09 PM
Maybe tests like the SAT and the GRE should be done away with completely. I think the GRE is stupid anyway.. I was good in the logic section, but they threw it out and replaced in with essay writing, and there is already a section english vocabulary, and I don't even want to get into English writing major.. anyway.
Dagenais
Mar27-04, 07:36 PM
Anyone who makes decisions about other peoples futures and prevents people from entering education due to race is a racist. This applies to black only scolarships as well as anything else. There is no reason why black people should have lower admission standards to college than anyone else.
Go tell that to some of them. They'll sue Universities and accuse them of "racism" since not even blacks or no blacks attend their University, depite the fact that they don't meet standards. So, instead of letting deserving students in, they have to let a few of them in.
No, that is not a fact.
Yes, it is a fact.
TIME had an article on it. Blacks scored significantly lower.
The fact is that black people consistently score lower on standardised tests than any other people, including asians and whites growing up in similar circumstances. If the asians grow up in a poor disadvantaged neighbourhood, then they work hard and try to get into a good university. The blacks see 50 cent as their role model and commit crime to try and get some money. This attitude has to change.
A lot of them stay "gangsta" after getting rich. You can accuse me of being discriminatory, but just talk to:
Rasheed Wallace
Chris Webber
Kobe Bryant
Allen Iverson
Michael Irvin
Still not convinced? I've got a lot more examples where those came from...oh, here's another: Bonzi Wells. Oh, and another: Jason Kidd.
Exactly, and that fact is what lends people to calling the SAT 'racist'
Oh yes, asking you to write essays and solve math problems is so racist.
Just because I am not familiar with the testing format that is used in the US.
LOL.
Format as in filling in the A,B,C,D,E bubbles?
Is it fair to conclude that Asians must be in charge of writing the SAT tests, i.e. that the SATs are Asian-centric, and thus non-Asian students do relatively poorly?
Actually, TIME's chart showed that Whites were pretty close.
ok, the racism has to come to a stop, and I'm gonna do my part. Thanks for coming, hope you have had a great time, see you in 2 weeks.
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