View Full Version : Advice needed
There is this girl that was special to me since I was 10 but I never had the courage to talk to her. I think she like me as well but not too sure. I did not see her until first year uni which again I did not have the courage to talk to her. Now in 4th year uni I am feeling a bit lonely and decided to give her an email which was a big step for me given I had never ever talked to her before. She responded to my first email on the day I sent it to her asking me what I was up to. Then I sent her another one telling her about what I was doing in uni and asked her how she was and what course she was doing. But she hasn't responded in a month to my second email. What does that mean? Should I send her another one telling her she was special to me or is that a sign that she is not interested in me and I should give up?
Please vote and if the first option then what should I say?
head over to the chem lab & pick up some chloroform (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEAUkcR_jUE)
dontdisturbmycircles
May20-07, 03:36 AM
Talk to her in person!!!
Thrice is creepy :tongue:
It would be a fluke chance to see her again at uni. But also I would be too nervous having purposely avoided her in the past for so long ( even though I should have got myself to do the opposite of what I have done).
You give the impression that you have hardly ever spoken to this girl in person, yet you say she has been so special to you since you were ten. How can this be?
How can she be that special to you if you haven't even talked to her in the ten or more years you've known her?
So have you been thinking about her for half of your life now? Damn. Go after her or move on. Preferebly go after her, but I think you may too shy to go for her.
honestrosewater
May20-07, 04:36 AM
I do not think it's a good idea to write her and only say that she is "special" to you. Could you elaborate on what that means? You like her? You've had a crush on her?
To me, honestly, that kind of letter would sound a little alarming.
Also, are you prepared for her to not feel the same about you?
Huckleberry
May20-07, 04:48 AM
I would send her an e-mail. Keep it short and unemotional. Say something like 'Since we are going to the same university I thought it would be cool if we could sit down and talk about how things have been since we last saw each other, perhaps over a cup of coffee". Keep in mind that this woman probably doesn't currently have the same feeling toward you that you have toward her. She probably has a boyfriend and friends that she hangs around on a daily basis. Be honest about how you feel, but keep it simple and don't pressure her with your emotion. Give her the opportunity to be friends. If you proffess undying love for her the first time you meet she won't have that option. I can almost guarantee that she will choose what is familiar to her over you if you pressure her.
Regardless of what happens you gotta try. If it takes acting a fool then that is what you must do. If you let it go you may regret it for the rest of your life. That's a heavy burden to carry around.
Ivan Seeking
May20-07, 05:16 AM
Sounds like good advice Huckleberry.
And I agree: Don't miss out on life due to shyness. Anything worth doing involves risk.
There is this girl that was special to me since I was 10 but I never had the courage to talk to her. I think she like me as well but not too sure. I did not see her until first year uni which again I did not have the courage to talk to her.
Oh forget about the courage thing. I know it can be hard, and we all have that same problem often, but life is too short to not have courage to do the things that *will* make you better at a point after you do them.
You give the impression that you have hardly ever spoken to this girl in person, yet you say she has been so special to you since you were ten. How can this be?
How can she be that special to you if you haven't even talked to her in the ten or more years you've known her?
Oh people, come on, haven't you ever been in love? :rolleyes:
I would send her an e-mail. Keep it short and unemotional. Say something like 'Since we are going to the same university I thought it would be cool if we could sit down and talk about how things have been since we last saw each other, perhaps over a cup of coffee". Keep in mind that this woman probably doesn't currently have the same feeling toward you that you have toward her. She probably has a boyfriend and friends that she hangs around on a daily basis. Be honest about how you feel, but keep it simple and don't pressure her with your emotion. Give her the opportunity to be friends. If you proffess undying love for her the first time you meet she won't have that option. I can almost guarantee that she will choose what is familiar to her over you if you pressure her.
Regardless of what happens you gotta try. If it takes acting a fool then that is what you must do. If you let it go you may regret it for the rest of your life. That's a heavy burden to carry around.
I second all of the above.
Oh people, come on, haven't you ever been in love? :rolleyes:
Well, yes, but with a girl that I knew! It seems to me, by reading the OP, that in the ten years that he has "known" her, they have traded one email conversation. Therefore, I don't know how she can be "special" to him-- he doesn't even know the girl! I also don't understand how he thinks that she likes him too?
Now I may be completely off the mark, and they may have shared numerous email conversations in the past, but if so I would suspect that he wouldn't be too scared to talk to her in person!
If the former scenario is true, then it sounds like the OP is infatuated with this girl. Therefore, he should firstly be prepared for the girl to not really know who he is, and definitely not to have any feelings for him. Secondly, if he actually manages to get her to go for a coffee with him, then he should definitely hide his feelings about her, as she will probably be rather scared if, on the first occasion they met, he declared his undying love for her!
I would, however, advise him to leave this girl and go and meet someone else. Friendships in which there are massive inbalances in feelings between each person are often really difficult to sustain.
Well, yes, but with a girl that I knew! It seems to me, by reading the OP, that in the ten years that he has "known" her, they have traded one email conversation. Therefore, I don't know how she can be "special" to him-- he doesn't even know the girl! I also don't understand how he thinks that she likes him too?
If the former scenario is true, then it sounds like the OP is infatuated with this girl.
I agree, infatuation my be a better word than "love", but still, when you're infatuated with someone, he/she is still "special" to you. :smile:
I would, however, advise him to leave this girl and go and meet someone else.
Related to what you wrote, infatutaion can be very strong, but it can vanish very quickly once the (bad) cards are presented. Hence, I second the advice about meeting someone else.
You give the impression that you have hardly ever spoken to this girl in person, yet you say she has been so special to you since you were ten. How can this be?
I have never talked to her. You see I am very weird which is understandable if one is into maths and physics like myself. Too bas she isn't at least I haven't seen her in any of my classes. I think I am a bit like Dirac except a bit more sociable but obviously much less talented. But you get the picture? I use to force myself to avoid her in my young days because I was scared about the consequences. I was still like that at the start of this year maybe. Pretty pathetic. I am not sure how a cup of coffee would work out since I have never had a cup of coffee even by myself in a shop. I once did order a take way though.
I agree, infatuation my be a better word than "love", but still, when you're infatuated with someone, he/she is still "special" to you. :smile:
That's true- I guess it depends upon someones take on the word "special." That's another reason for him especially not to tell her "you're special to me," since it could mean many things. If a girl I've spoken to a couple of times in the past came up to me and told me I was very special to her, I would be rather scared myself!
Related to what you wrote, infatutaion can be very strong, but it can vanish very quickly once the (bad) cards are presented.
This is, again, a very valid point. At the moment, he can at most judge whether he likes her on her looks. If he starts talking to her he may find a person that he doesn't want to know that well!
Hence, I second the advice about meeting someone else.
Yup-- once he finds a girl with whom he can interact, he probably won't even think about this girl anymore.
You give the impression that you have hardly ever spoken to this girl in person, yet you say she has been so special to you since you were ten. How can this be?
I have never talked to her. You see I am very weird which is understandable if one is into maths and physics like myself. Too bas she isn't at least I haven't seen her in any of my classes. I think I am a bit like Dirac except a bit more sociable but obviously much less talented. But you get the picture? I use to force myself to avoid her in my young days because I was scared about the consequences. I was still like that at the start of this year maybe. Pretty pathetic.
I have never talked to her.
Ok, well why do you like her? What makes her so special?
You see I am very weird which is understandable if one is into maths and physics like myself.
Just because one studies maths and physics doesn't mean that one loses the ability to socialise!!
I use to force myself to avoid her in my young days because I was scared about the consequences.
Well, that's understandable, but the operative words here are "in your younger days."
I was still like that at the start of this year maybe. Pretty pathetic.
It's not pathetic, it just seems like you've been trying to avoid her for so long, that you've made it even harder to strike up a conversation with her. This is even more reason to move on. Find a girl who you do not have this "history" with, and with whom you can start a conversation.
I have never talked to her. You see I am very weird which is understandable if one is into maths and physics like myself.
No, I don't think it's understandable. It's all just because people believe in these stupid stereotypes. I know a lot of mathematicians who are just the complete opposite of "unsociable", "shy" and "weird".
I use to force myself to avoid her in my young days because I was scared about the consequences.
And...these would be? Please elaborate. :smile:
I am not sure how a cup of coffee would work out since I have never had a cup of coffee even by myself in a shop. I once did order a take way though.
It doesn't have to be a cup of coffee. Perhaps she even doesn't like coffee. It can just be a pleasant walk in the park or somewhere.
Monique
May20-07, 06:28 AM
I have never talked to her. So what do the two of you have in common? If it is just an infatuation, then I'd leave it at that and start looking for someone real that you share interests with. If you're lonely you should go out and join a group and do activities in order to meet new friends.
I do not think it's a good idea to write her and only say that she is "special" to you. Could you elaborate on what that means? You like her? You've had a crush on her?
To me, honestly, that kind of letter would sound a little alarming.
Also, are you prepared for her to not feel the same about you?
Actually upon reflection, I think she might have been a bit alarmed at what I wrote in my second email to her (the first was just asking whether she was the correct person I was writing to) and may think about me negatively like I was crazy and might stalk her or something if she gave me more information about herself. I told her that I regretted not ever talking to her and told her what I was studying now and before and my future plans at uni. That might have been too much information to someone I have never taked to. She might also think I am a weirdo doing maths and physics as any average person would. The way I wrote that email dosen't help. When I wrote it I was a bit emotional and was banking on her liking me and also having a crush on me, which in hindsight is stupid. Although I have a reason for thinking that because she looked my way (as I was staring at her) while I was walking into a library to get a drink and she was talking to someone outside of the library this year and gave me a second look as I walked out. I was so nervous that I didn't even give her a second look as I walked out.
And...these would be? Please elaborate. :smile:
Mainly that my parents will find out.
She might also think I am a weirdo doing maths and physics as any average person would.
Well, if her way of thinking is that shallow, then you can forget about her right away.
Mainly that my parents will find out.
Your parents are problematic?
honestrosewater
May20-07, 07:18 AM
I like Huck's advice too. I always tell people when I like them, and none of those cases have yet worked out exactly as I'd hoped at the time, but I don't regret letting any of them know at all. Plus, it helps you find out if you are really compatible or not. Perhaps, as a physicist, you would more readily take some of Feynman's advice: prove yourself wrong as soon as possible. :tongue2:
I told her that I regretted not ever talking to her and told her what I was studying now and before and my future plans at uni.That doesn't sound bad. If she's a nice person, I imagine she would be understanding.
She might also think I am a weirdo doing maths and physics as any average person would.In which case, you wouldn't like her, right? Why would you like someone who thinks you're a weirdo?
The way I wrote that email dosen't help. When I wrote it I was a bit emotional and was banking on her liking me and also having a crush on me, which in hindsight is stupid. Although I have a reason for thinking that because she looked my way (as I was staring at her) while I was walking into a library to get a drink and she was talking to someone outside of the library this year and gave me a second look as I walked out. I was so nervous that I didn't even give her a second look as I walked out.Oh, man, I feel for you, really. I think you are needlessly setting yourself up for disappointment with the way that you are approaching things. Is the person that you like even her? You have some image of her that you have grown to like and is special to you, but you don't actually know the real her, do you?
Astronuc
May20-07, 08:25 AM
I agree with Huck's advice.
When I wrote it I was a bit emotional and was banking on her liking me and also having a crush on me, . . . Although I have a reason for thinking that because she looked my way (as I was staring at her) while I was walking into a library to get a drink and she was talking to someone outside of the library this year and gave me a second look as I walked out. One is projecting one's ideas on to her. One is certainly infatuated. If one has not talked with the young lady, there is no basis to believe she has any interest in one. While one shares some common geography and past with the young lady, there is no basis for anything more than a casual relationship, an acquaintance.
At the moment, don't put any expectations on a relationship with her. The best one could hope for is a casual meeting and review of the past. You both diverged long ago (10-12 years is a long time in this matter), and as others have mentioned, you both have completely different histories and current familiarities. Back then, she might have been special to you, but reverse may not be true, i.e. you may not have been particularly special to her.
You could do as Huckleberry suggested, but then one has to let the woman decide on the subsequent course, and accept the fact that she might not wish to meet with one - at present. In that case, one moves on.
One might also seek some counseling, which should be available at one's university.
Huckleberry
May20-07, 08:37 AM
Yup-- once he finds a girl with whom he can interact, he probably won't even think about this girl anymore. I'm not certain of this at all. After 10 years without contacting this girl he still is very fond of her. Rather than the memory fading, it has grown into some impossible thing. It may even be partly responsible for not having met another woman in that 10 years. Who can compare to the impossible beauty in his imagination? He may not meet a woman for another 10 years. Without an emotional resolution this barrier will likely only cast a shadow across his entire life.
ILEW, fear is the great killer. You have already made the decision that you wish to know this woman. Your parents wishes didn't stop you from making that decision and it didn't stop you from acting on it already. Do not fear reprisal or conflict or rejection. They are only lessons to be learned in life. If you can embrace these harsh concepts without being overcome by fear then I promise you that your ability to experience passion for life will increase proportionately. If you fear the pain, you will be denied the pleasure. Don't allow other people be accountable for your happiness.
We are born, we live, we die. That's the nature of things. I can understand fear of the unknown and unfamiliar. Don't let it direct your life onto a narrow, level path, like a blinded, bridled horse whos only purpose is to pull it's load. There is a certain nobility to the horse and it's work, but has anyone asked the horse what it would like to do? Maybe it would like to go for a walk along the steep switchbacks of a nearby mountain valley, or run wild for a time in the plains. The horse has no choice, but you do.
Throw yourself on your sword. Commit seppuku of the spirit. Make yourself honorable and talk to this girl. If your legs won't hold you up in her presence then crawl to her. Say "Hello". She will say it back to you. Your heart will pound in your chest and you'll feel a knot in your gut and your thoughts will betray you, but your senses will be heightened. Every sound will be a symphony and you'll understand the songs of birds. The sun will shine only to warm your skin. Every hair on your body will dance in the breeze, their cheers the sound of the whispering wind. Time will stop to watch you for a short while.
If you can't think of anything to say then make a comment on what your senses tell you. Say anything. You like the way that steam rises from coffee. This bagel is good, but not like the ones mom used to make. You like the smell of freshly peeled oranges, but don't like when they spray you in the eye. Be in the moment. Speak of the past as the past. Remember always that you do not really know each other and she is not the woman you have in your imagination. That is not the woman you are speaking to. Be prepared for rejection. You may need to suffer that little death to clean your cup of stagnant water. A clean cup can be filled again. If you are lucky she may accept you and you can start a relationship. She may even be very much like the woman you imagined. But the most important reason for approaching her should be so you can move ahead with your life without doubt or regret holding you in the past. That, in itself, should be reward enough.
Huckleberry
May20-07, 08:51 AM
One is projecting one's ideas on to her. One is certainly infatuated. If one has not talked with the young lady, there is no basis to believe she has any interest in one. While one shares some common geography and past with the young lady, there is no basis for anything more than a casual relationship, an acquaintance.
I do believe this is an unhealthy infatuation and not real love. That doesn't mean it couldn't eventually be real given half a chance. It certainly can't be ignored so it must be confronted, explored.
What gets me is that even after 10 years she remembers well enough to ask how he is doing. That doesn't necessarily mean she liked him, but I'm sure it has some relevence. Perhaps she was being polite, but at least it doesn't seem as if she doesn't like him. That leaves the door open in my opinion.
I do believe this is an unhealthy infatuation and not real love. That doesn't mean it couldn't eventually be real given half a chance. It certainly can't be ignored so it must be confronted, explored.
What gets me is that even after 10 years she remembers well enough to ask how he is doing. That doesn't necessarily mean she liked him, but I'm sure it has some relevence. Perhaps she was being polite, but at least it doesn't seem as if she doesn't like him. That leaves the door open in my opinion.
Your previous post was quiet nice to say the least, almost like a poem. Yeah its good that she still remembers me. How many full names can you remember from your primary school and especially any person you have never spoken to and didn't go to your high school? I can only think about only 5 in total. One thing was that we were on the same sports team back then and I was the number one seed so it must have left a positive and lasting impression on her? I felt that was one strong reason why she would like me back then? As I didn't do that well in class nor very sociable. I was only in her form class for half a year in grade 5. As I moved from another school so it was a fluke that my parents moved houses otherwise I would never have had the opportunity. There was no one like her in my old school. Unfortunately I was in a different class to her in the 6th grade but back then I was happy about it because it would mean I could be in class without feeling extemely irrational and crazy. Although deep down I was dissapointed. I obviously didn't appreciate how special she is until now.
Who can compare to the impossible beauty in his imagination?
The important point is that his imagination has built up this incredible girl, but he should ask himself, why? He's never spoken to this girl-- they have at most exchanged glances. He does not know what she's like, or whether he even really likes her, let alone whether she will give him the time of day. He's basing this on things like looks shes given him when hes been walking into the library. Well, it is human nature to look at people when they pass, otherwise we would all be walking around staring at the floor. If someone looks at me as they pass, then I would look back, and probably smile, as any friendly human being would do!
You ask who can compare to this person that he's built in his mind. Well, there's nothing saying that she will come close to doing so. Even if he does start talking to her, then he'll be let down as she won't be able to live upto what he has made her in his head. That's why I said it was best to move on, and interact with other girls; girls who have not got a huge picture in his head to live up to!
What gets me is that even after 10 years she remembers well enough to ask how he is doing. That doesn't necessarily mean she liked him, but I'm sure it has some relevence. Perhaps she was being polite, but at least it doesn't seem as if she doesn't like him. That leaves the door open in my opinion.
She replied to an email that he sent asking if it was her. Ok, so at least the fact that she replied says that she's not an unfriendly person, but what else was she going to reply to such an email saying? "Yes, it's me."??
It's all well and good dreaming of things like this happening, but in reality they don't-- it's an unhealthy obsession. The only good coming out of them meeting, that I can see of, is that it will finally dispense of this image of her in his mind that she can't live up to, so that he can then move on. But, why put yourself through that? Why not simply think "Ok, so that's an image of what I imagine to be my perfect girl. She won't be like that, and there's no way that anything will happen between us, so I'll just move on."
Like I said earlier, if he even manages to start up a friendship with her in this situation, then it will not work-- he's obsessed with her, and she hardly knows him from Adam. It's going to put a ridiculous strain between the two of them, and one that she will most likely not want anything to do with.
Astronuc
May20-07, 09:19 AM
I have to wonder if this thread is related to -
How 'true' is preteen love? (http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=164543)
Do people change much after say grade 5? (http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=165479)
Back when I was 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, I had crushes on girls and some became girlfriends, for a brief period. It didn't help that I moved about every two years. When I was in university, it would likely have been impossible for me to pick up with those girls who had become women, because our paths diverged, although we had common background and experience. People change enormously in 10 years. Anyway, each of those girls were special and remain special, but most of them have probably married and had children. I would like to know that each has done well and have been able to find a caring, loving person (husband) with whom they been able to share their lives. But the best I could offer today is friendship. Even in college, I dated women, but for one reason or another, we didn't get married.
I met the woman who became my wife when I was 22, we started dating (which quickly became an exclusive relationship) when I was 23, and we got married a year later. We started simply as friends, and over a period of a 1.5 years grew closer. She is also 6.5 years older than me - and we have been married 25 years.
The complication for the OP author is that there was no apparent relationship in the past. The young lady of interest may very well be polite, as people should be. But one should not expect anything beyond a casual acquaintance at this point.
Relationships only evolve positively when there is a 'mutuality', i.e. both participants have more or less the same special feeling for each other. Unilateral feelings do not make for a good relationship.
Beyond simply being acquaintances, relationships between opposite genders (in the context of this thread) are exceedingly complex (even friendships can be complex). One cannot force a relationship, it must simply happen.
Huckleberry
May20-07, 10:10 AM
The only good coming out of them meeting, that I can see of, is that it will finally dispense of this image of her in his mind that she can't live up to, so that he can then move on. But, why put yourself through that? Why not simply think "Ok, so that's an image of what I imagine to be my perfect girl. She won't be like that, and there's no way that anything will happen between us, so I'll just move on."
I don't disagree on any particular point in your post, except one.
I think it is imperative that ILEW speak to this girl. This isn't a choice that can be made rationally. He may not even have ever had a choice in the matter. It is what it is, and just because he barely knows this young woman does not lesson her importance to him. Love, infatuation, whatever it is, it's not a matter solely for the rational mind. It won't be just this woman that he makes an unreal comparison to. It will be every woman. I find it fascinating and beautiful and romantic to be so committed to someone one does not even know, but it is also unhealthy. In order to advance with his life, it is my opinion that he must work through the emotion and recieve some kind of closure from her. Ignoring it is not an option. He's been trying that for 10 years already. It's time to bleed the wound.
Your previous post was quiet nice to say the least, almost like a poem. Yeah its good that she still remembers me. How many full names can you remember from your primary school and especially any person you have never spoken to and didn't go to your high school? I can only think about only 5 in total. One thing was that we were on the same sports team back then and I was the number one seed so it must have left a positive and lasting impression on her? I felt that was one strong reason why she would like me back then? As I didn't do that well in class nor very sociable. I was only in her form class for half a year in grade 5. As I moved from another school so it was a fluke that my parents moved houses otherwise I would never have had the opportunity. There was no one like her in my old school. Unfortunately I was in a different class to her in the 6th grade but back then I was happy about it because it would mean I could be in class without feeling extemely irrational and crazy. Although deep down I was dissapointed. I obviously didn't appreciate how special she is until now.
I don't remember anyone from primary school. Even the faces are kind of half forgotten. I've moved quite a few times in my life. It didn't leave much opportunity for long lasting relationships.
I don't think she will like you because you were the number one seed on the sports team back in grade school. I'm sure she is very special to you, but don't think that anything from 10 years in the past is a basis for a relationship in the present. She isn't a 10 year old girl any more.
I've been through some similar experiences. In high school there was a girl that was absolutely beautiful to me. She was kind and intelligent and perceptive. She was also a cheerleader and dating someone on the football team. One night she called my house asking about a question about some homework. I thought that was odd because she was smart enough to not need my help. She had other friends that she could have called. Most alarmingly, I never gave her my phone number. She must have gotten it from the phone book. Who does that?
One year we had Trig class together. It was the first class of the day. She would be in the hallway talking with her friends as I passed by. I went to class early and went over my homework. I was always the first one there. Every day she would come in and wait with me. She sat at her table and I sat at mine and we usually said nothing to each other. One day she had this nice sun hat on. I mentioned that I liked her hat. I heard later from one of her friends that she thought I didn't like her hat. Funny how infatuation alters our perception, don't you think?
One day I was walking to another class and saw her in the hallway talking with one of her friends. Her friend was trying to convince her to have sex with her football player boyfriend. I walked by and said nothing.
Two years after high school I was living in Arizona and couldn't get her out of my head. I wrote a letter, found her parents address and mailed it to her. I called her up and we talked briefly. As soon as it became obvious to her that I was interested in her she hung up. I called several times and she never spoke to me over the phone. Her brother once wished me good luck. A few weeks later I got a brief letter in the mail saying that she was now engaged to that football player and that I shouldn't write her again.
I had missed my opportunity because I was too shy to do anythng about it. I can't stand to see someone else go through that. So don't worry about appearing irrational. That can be a strength also. It's ok to be a little crazy sometimes.
Another time this French woman I was penpals with invited me down to Mexico to a church that she had volunteered at. I went. It turned out that we didn't get along very well. We were very different personality types. I wanted to get to know her but she kept rejecting me. After 2 months I had written 80 pages in my journal about it. It's kind of interesting upon reflection.
I'm very familiar with rejection, but I'm not afraid of trying again. I feel a bit crippled sometimes, but I'm not dead yet. As long as I have a heartbeat there is hope even in a hopeless situation like the one you are in now.
I think it is imperative that ILEW speak to this girl. This isn't a choice that can be made rationally. He may not even have ever had a choice in the matter. It is what it is, and just because he barely knows this young woman does not lesson her importance to him. Love, infatuation, whatever it is, it's not a matter solely for the rational mind. It won't be just this woman that he makes an unreal comparison to. It will be every woman. I find it fascinating and beautiful and romantic to be so committed to someone one does not even know, but it is also unhealthy. In order to advance with his life, it is my opinion that he must work through the emotion and recieve some kind of closure from her. Ignoring it is not an option. He's been trying that for 10 years already. It's time to bleed the wound.
Well, we are clearly two very different people when it comes to this matter, and it is apparent that you can empathise with his situation. I've never, apart from a few times in school when I was about 14 or so, been in this situation, and thus cannot comprehend how such a situation arises between adults. I have had a few close friendships which became a little strained by the want for emotional involvement-- once was on my part, and the other was on the girl's part-- but that's very different, since we knew each other very well.
ILEW clearly has two options here, both with positive and negative consequences, so I guess it's upto him to make a decision. I would, however, urge you, ILEW, to make a decision pretty soon, and you can't carry on feeling like this for much longer. Astronuc makes a good suggestion, that you could seek advice from your university's counsellor.
As an aside, Huckleberry, your optimism is a very admirable trait.
honestrosewater
May20-07, 10:51 AM
Also, I think that admiring someone from a distance is nowhere near as wonderful and satisfying as actually getting to know someone really well, especially getting to the things that most people never come to see. And it goes both ways, of course, letting someone get to know you. So maybe you should consider moving ahead for that reason too.
Huckleberry, did you like her very much? Or was it more she liking you a lot back then and you liked her mildly.
What I haven't said was that back in first year uni we took the same bus as we lived in the same surberb but I don't know which house she lives in and I obviously also purposely avoided her as well although I cried a little the first time I saw her after not having seen her for 6 years as she boarded the bus. I deliberately turned my head to the window as I didn't want her to see my tears but I think she recognised me and even stopped and maybe thought to sit next to me but didn't and walked past. But one morning when the bus was packed, I was standing and holding to a pole. She came near me and leaned on the pole I was holding to which was understandable as there weren't much other room in the bus. She actually leaned on my knuckles without realising I think (if she had held to the same pole then she would have had to face me which she probably didn't want as I previously avoided her). It was unfortunate that it hurt my a hand a lot and I pulled it out without saying anything and she said sorry - the only word she has ever said to me. It was a most regrettable moment for me and quite rude on my behalf, there couldn't be a better conversation starter could there? Unfortuntely now I don't see her boarding the same bus.
Huckleberry
May21-07, 10:11 AM
Huckleberry, did you like her very much? Or was it more she liking you a lot back then and you liked her mildly.
I liked her very much. I would say I was infatuated. Sometimes I still wonder what life would have been like had I had the courage to ask her out, but I don't dwell on it too much any more. It doesn't cause me any pain now.
One time I was at a hostel in Mexico D.F. and I was leaning on a counter doing my best to talk to the clerk in spanish. Earlier I had seen this perky, little asian woman with a very tall asian man. Suddenly someone yanks a brochure from underneath my elbow. I turn my head and see this asian woman. I said something like " Sorry, I guess you really wanted that brochure." She said "I want to plan some places to go. I'm here with my friend. We are not a couple". We talked briefly and I left. A few minutes later I told a friend about what just happened and she said I should go back and talk to the asian woman. So I did and we went out on a few dates over the next few days and had a great time.
It can be that easy to meet someone. The hardest part is saying hello. Try it sometime. It doesn't even matter if you are really interested in dating the person or not. You walk into class and there is a girl sitting next to you. Say Hi and give her a smile. That's all you have to do. A sincere smile is the key to many doors. It says, "My day is going well and I hope yours is too". I am still very nervous when talking to new people, but with practice comes confidence and assurance that rejection is not the end of the world. Some people will like you and others won't show any interest. I think you will be surprised. There are many women that would be interested in physics/math geeks. You can be the king of social misfits and still catch the interest of many women if you have confidence. Practice by introducing yourself to new people.
Don't wait forever to introduce yourself. From what I've seen it's rare for a woman to make the opening move. They use other ways to get your attention and then it is up to you to pick up on it and make the first move. Don't use pick-up lines or try to impress anyone. Just speak simply and honestly and be yourself. Gravy.
JasonRox
May21-07, 10:21 AM
You liked a girl since you were 10, but you never talked to her and you're still thinking about for this long?
That sounds really creepy to be honest with you.
Huckleberry
May21-07, 12:51 PM
I've never, apart from a few times in school when I was about 14 or so, been in this situation, and thus cannot comprehend how such a situation arises between adults.
Dare we attempt to put a name to the term? It could be Social Anxiety Disorder, but I'm really not qualified to make the diagnosis. Does it seem like this would explain ILEX's situation?
Symptoms
[edit] Cognitive aspects
In cognitive models of Social Anxiety Disorder, social phobics experience dread over how they will be presented to others. They may be overly self-conscious, pay high self-attention after the activity, or have high performance standards for themselves. According to the social psychology theory of self-presentation, a sufferer attempts to create a well-mannered impression on others but believes he or she is unable to do so. Many times, prior to the potentially anxiety-provoking social situation, sufferers may deliberate over what could go wrong and how to deal with each unexpected case. After the event, they may have the perception they performed unsatisfactorily. Consequently, they will review anything that may have possibly been abnormal or embarrassing. These thoughts do not just terminate soon after the encounter, but may extend for weeks or longer.[8] Those with social phobia tend to interpret neutral or ambiguous conversations with a negative outlook and although still inconclusive, some studies suggest that socially anxious individuals remember more negative memories than those less distressed.[9] An example of an instance may be that of an employee presenting to his co-workers. During the presentation, the person may stutter a word upon which he or she may worry that other people significantly noticed and think that he or she is a terrible presenter. This cognitive thought propels further anxiety which may lead to further stuttering, sweating and a possible panic attack.
[edit] Behavioral aspects
Social anxiety disorder is a persistent fear of one or more situations in which the person is exposed to possible scrutiny by others and fears that he or she may do something or act in a way that will be humiliating or embarrassing. It exceeds normal "shyness" as it leads to excessive social avoidance and substantial social or occupational impairment. Feared activities may include almost any type of social interaction, especially small groups, dating, parties, talking to strangers, restaurants, etc. Physical symptoms include "mind going blank", fast heartbeat, blushing, stomach ache. Cognitive distortions are a hallmark, and learned about in CBT (cognitive-behavioral therapy). Thoughts are often self-defeating and inaccurate.
The groundless fear of telephoning is typical, both calling somebody and answering the phone. It may appear already in the childhood.
According to psychologist B.F. Skinner, phobias are controlled by escape and avoidance behaviors. For instance, a student may leave the room when talking in front of the class (escape) and refrain from doing verbal presentations because of the previously encountered anxiety attack (avoid). Minor avoidance behaviors are exposed when a person avoids eye contact and crosses arms to avoid recognizable shaking.[9] A fight-or-flight response is then triggered in such events. Preventing these automatic responses is at the core of treatment for social anxiety.
[edit] Physiological aspects
Physiological effects, similar to those in other anxiety disorders, are present in social phobics. Faced with an uncomfortable situation, children with social anxiety may display tantrums, weeping, clinging to parents, and shutting themselves out.[10] At adults, it may be lacrimation as well as experiencing excessive sweating, nausea, shaking, and palpitations as a result of the fight-or-flight response. It should be strongly emphasized that the term "lacrimation" refers to eye watering, not crying. The walk disturbance may appear, especially when passing a group of people. Blushing is commonly exhibited by individuals suffering from social phobia.[9] These visible symptoms further reinforce the anxiety in the presence of others. A 2006 study found that the area of the brain called the amygdala, part of the limbic system, is hyperactive when patients are shown threatening faces or confronted with frightening situations. They found that patients with more severe social phobia showed a correlation with the increased response in the amygdala.[11]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_anxiety
American children appear more likely to develop social anxiety disorder if their parents emphasise the importance of other's opinions and use shame as a disciplinary strategy (Leung et al., 1994),
Being sensitive is not a bad thing. I find it very helpful in understanding others. Being sensitive to the point that it limits your ability to have a healthy relationship is a bad thing. It can lead to depression and substance abuse and suicide. I also believe it could lead to destructive behaviors that target other individuals. I think this why people are afraid of the symptoms and make comments about this sort of behavior being creepy, which only reinforces the behaviors.
ILEX, reread your own posts in this thread and determine which statements are irrational to you in hindsight. You don't need to post it if you don't want, but it's something to think about.
I can't help wondering, but was this a little red headed girl?
So what do the two of you have in common? If it is just an infatuation, then I'd leave it at that and start looking for someone real that you share interests with. If you're lonely you should go out and join a group and do activities in order to meet new friends.
Is the person that you like even her? You have some image of her that you have grown to like and is special to you, but you don't actually know the real her, do you?
Good points, both.
I don't think the chances of this working out are very good. You can create a fantasy girl, complete with a fantasy personality, if she's inflatable. If she's a real human, she's probably going to be a little shocked by the personality you've supplied her with. And it's hard to believe you haven't supplied her with a personality if you've spent ten years obsessing over her.
You'll probably be equally shocked by her real personality. So far, you have no real reason to think you'll actually be attracted to her.
I would say your problem is pretty normal for someone in junior high or early high school (at least, I hope it's normal, for my own sake). You need to grow out of that eventually, though.
Get out and meet some people. There's no reason it has to be a physics/math oriented group, either. A little diversity in environment can do wonders.
You liked a girl since you were 10, but you never talked to her and you're still thinking about for this long?
That sounds really creepy to be honest with you.
I think its just that I am really regretting all the opportunties I had in the past. Had I never seen her after primary school than she would gradually fade from my memory but would always be in there - i.e when I am in love with someone I would think about her and compare her to this person I was in love with. However I did see her when she was 18 and she looked prettier than ever. Failing to say anything then is heart breaking for me now.
Huckleberry, are you suggesting you were both infatuated with each other?
I don't have social anxiety disorder. I am simply getting lonely and regreting the past which seemed like such a golden opportunity. It could have been that it never worked out but I didn't try. You could say that now that I have, things also seem not to have worked out. But I wished I had tried sooner.
I can't help wondering, but was this a little red headed girl?
No. Brown hair I think. I never noticed her hair much nor her body for that matter. It's just her face that really did me back then and still now. Offcourse also her behaviour (i.e how she acted and did) in school I liked as well.
JasonRox
May21-07, 05:44 PM
The bottom line is you don't even know her. It doesn't make sense to be overcome with emotions about something you know literally nothing about. Of course it happens, but part of life I believe is to learn how to control those emotions so they don't go out of hand.
I personally think you should get over it.
Astronuc
May21-07, 07:37 PM
Huckleberry, are you suggesting you were both infatuated with each other? No. Since none of know the young lady, we cannot assess her thoughts. ILEW, it is clear you are infatuated (attracted) to the young lady, which is fine if you recognize it as such.
I don't have social anxiety disorder. I am simply getting lonely and regreting the past which seemed like such a golden opportunity. It could have been that it never worked out but I didn't try. You could say that now that I have, things also seem not to have worked out. But I wished I had tried sooner. OK - there is regret over the past, over opportunities not explored. Stop dwelling on the past, which cannot be changed.
In the present, there are two courses of action:
1. Give it up, let go and move on. There are many other very nice women out there in the world.
2. Find a way to communicate with the young lady - but do so without expectation.
The next time you see her - look at her and wave - and smile. If she acknowledges that (and waves and/or smiles), perhaps you could approach her. If she does not wave or smile, don't approach. Perhaps your avoidance in the past has caused her some concern.
Alternatively, you could write an email explain more or less that you are simply shy and never had the courage to talk with her or approach her. You could then suggest that it would be nice to sit and talk over coffee or something - but then you have to wait for a response. If it never comes, then you move on. But at least you have made an attempt instead of missing another opportunity.
Astronuc
May21-07, 07:38 PM
I can't help wondering, but was this a little red headed girl? No, that's Charlie Brown. :rofl:
JasonRox
May21-07, 10:17 PM
Listen to Astronuc. He summed it nice, and explained it.
Personally, I vote move on because this an emotional hurdle you have to surpass and let her go. If you did get with her, and she broke up with you... your life would become hopeless as you have no idea how to move on.
Moonbear
May21-07, 10:57 PM
Okay, this just keeps getting creepier, to be honest. You have never spoken to her, and presumably have never heard her speak either, you don't even know what color her hair is, yet you're completely obsessed with her, or at least your imagined version of her. You're in love with your imagination here, not with the person, you don't even know her, she's just a pretty face. You could try talking to her, but this obsession is probably going to show through and creep her out, and since you've conjured up your fantasy image of her, it's doubtful the real person will ever match up to the ideals of your imagination. Or, you can just realize it's a weird crush that should have been nothing more than a phase in your childhood and move on already.
JasonRox
May21-07, 11:13 PM
Okay, this just keeps getting creepier, to be honest. You have never spoken to her, and presumably have never heard her speak either, you don't even know what color her hair is, yet you're completely obsessed with her, or at least your imagined version of her. You're in love with your imagination here, not with the person, you don't even know her, she's just a pretty face. You could try talking to her, but this obsession is probably going to show through and creep her out, and since you've conjured up your fantasy image of her, it's doubtful the real person will ever match up to the ideals of your imagination. Or, you can just realize it's a weird crush that should have been nothing more than a phase in your childhood and move on already.
The first e-mail itself most likely creeped her out. That's why she never responded.
honestrosewater
May21-07, 11:39 PM
Meh, I have gotten some questionable messages from guys who seem a bit too smitten with me for some reason, but I don't see why that is necessarily creepy. I might have even seemed that way to other people at times. The message that he described didn't sound creepy. I have gotten some definitely creepy (i.e., slimy or scary) messages too (and had other experiences), and they are different.
And to be fair, I didn't see where he said how much time he has spent thinking about her, so I don't see the justifications for calling this obsession. Hasn't he only mentioned things that he noticed and remembered? Perhaps he is just observant and has a good memory. I suppose the "specialness" never got explained, but still, obsession seems like a jump to me.
honestrosewater
May21-07, 11:45 PM
The first e-mail itself most likely creeped her out. That's why she never responded.She did respond.
She responded to my first email on the day I sent it to her asking me what I was up to.And he has heard her speak. He said she said sorry to him on the bus. Some people notice and remember lots of things.
Maybe she is just busy. It's not impossible. I have messages from totally awesome people that I intend to write back but haven't gotten around to yet. Or maybe she forgot. Or maybe she didn't get it. Maybe a lot of things. ILEW, you won't know if you don't try. Just decide whether it's worth it or not. But, yeah, the sooner, the better.
Huckleberry
May22-07, 12:44 AM
Do you have problems approaching any woman that you are attracted to or just this one?
mathwonk
May22-07, 01:26 AM
whats her number john smith?
no seriously, try to accumulate as many "shot down" experiences as possible, and as few didn't call experiences as possible.
Do you have problems approaching any woman that you are attracted to or just this one?
You've hit the spot. My major weakness is having major difficulties with woman I am attracted to. Infact far worse, the more I am attracted to one, the faster I turn away and avoid her. Is this in the genes or a psychological illness. I have been like this for as far as I can remember. I have been most attracted to this girl and have shown the greatest amount of avoidance. I also don't have any friends that are female. Although I only have a handful of male friends as well so definitely not sociable.
You've hit the spot. My major weakness is having major difficulties with woman I am attracted to. Infact far worse, the more I am attracted to one, the faster I turn away and avoid her. Is this in the genes or a psychological illness.
No, it's not any illness and it's not in the genes. You're only looking for a excuse for not starting to act. You may think of it this way: people are afraid to go to war, they are afraid before undergoring risky surgery, they are afraid while they are waiting for a diagnosis or something. They are afraid when they lose someone really close to them, and they are afraid when someone is after them.
But you needn't be afraid of this fundamental thing - approaching a beautiful girl you fancy. Come on, the whole world is full of this "you can do it" motto these days, so even idiots get it and know what they have to do. This should be your motivation to change your life.
I also don't have any friends that are female. Although I only have a handful of male friends as well so definitely not sociable.
Even a handful is okay. Perhaps at least one of these male friends has a female friend. If so, look for a situation where you could get to know her. Why? Because this very female friend probably has at least a handful of female friends, so you can get to know at least one of her. Hence, your odds for meeting someone new and learning to socialize are greater. :smile:
Okay, this just keeps getting creepier, to be honest. You have never spoken to her, and presumably have never heard her speak either, you don't even know what color her hair is, yet you're completely obsessed with her, or at least your imagined version of her. You're in love with your imagination here, not with the person, you don't even know her, she's just a pretty face. You could try talking to her, but this obsession is probably going to show through and creep her out, and since you've conjured up your fantasy image of her, it's doubtful the real person will ever match up to the ideals of your imagination. Or, you can just realize it's a weird crush that should have been nothing more than a phase in your childhood and move on already.
I have heard her speak but not much. Actually I am pretty sure she has light brown hair. A colour like that is not very noticeable I think because it's light but not blonde nor red. Actually I have only seen her face directly once in my life which was this year and at a distance as I was walking into the library and we gave each other a stare, it was a bit too far to make out all her features. Before that I was too shy to look at her directly as I didn't want to give it away and have only looked at her from the side. Can you believe I missed the opportunity to look at her directly close up as I walked out of the library as she looked my way because I was even too shy or scared a few months ago. So back in primary school it may have been the way she acted that really got me and it could be that she looked very good from the side. So you can see that sending that email was a huge step for me. After I sent the first email, I was shaking scared as if the world was crushing down and didn't even have the appetite to eat lunch.
I have heard her speak but not much. Actually I am pretty sure she has light brown hair. A colour like that is not very noticeable I think because it's light but not blonde nor red. Actually I have only seen her face directly once in my life which was this year and at a distance as I was walking into the library and we gave each other a stare, it was a bit too far to make out all her features. Before that I was too shy to look at her directly as I didn't want to give it away and have only looked at her from the side. Can you believe I missed the opportunity to look at her directly close up as I walked out of the library as she looked my way because I was even too shy or scared a few months ago. So back in primary school it may have been the way she acted that really got me and it could be that she looked very good from the side. So you can see that sending that email was a huge step for me. After I sent the first email, I was shaking scared as if the world was crushing down and didn't even have the appetite to eat lunch.
So, you've only seen her face once? And you don't know what color her hair is? When you first started this thread, I presumed that you must like her because of the way she looks, but know it can't even be that. Why do you like her? There must be something!
In light of this new evidence, I strongly suggest you move on. This is clearly a very unhealthy obsession with someone that you do not know the slightest thing about.
JasonRox
May22-07, 08:44 AM
She did respond.
And he has heard her speak. He said she said sorry to him on the bus. Some people notice and remember lots of things.
Maybe she is just busy. It's not impossible. I have messages from totally awesome people that I intend to write back but haven't gotten around to yet. Or maybe she forgot. Or maybe she didn't get it. Maybe a lot of things. ILEW, you won't know if you don't try. Just decide whether it's worth it or not. But, yeah, the sooner, the better.
She didn't respond the second time...
and it could be that she looked very good from the side.
So, you've only seen her face once?
No, he apparently only saw her from the side. Perhaps the other side of her face is all deformed !! :biggrin:
ILEW, just listen to the advice these good people are giving you! Stop writing and do something!
You people are a bit mistaken. I definitely know her hair colour is light brown and it could be that I did see her face back in primary school but thought it was so pretty that I was too scared to look at it more because if I did I would have given away the truths, such as my immature thoughts were back then.
I actually realised how much I had missed out when I had a maths tutor who looked a lot like her, same hair colour, build and facial features except not as pretty. I felt so good asking her questions that I thought about contacting the girl I had never spoken to. Anyway I think I should move on as most of you suggest but might give her one more email just to be sure of myself. Things can't get worse than they already are.
JasonRox
May22-07, 11:10 AM
Just get over it. No e-mail. Nothing.
The fact that you clung on to this for so long is creepy. You're at risk at clinging on to her like a shark on prey if you two ever want a date. Trust me, that's not good.
Huckleberry
May22-07, 01:28 PM
I don't think you should just move on and forget this girl. What will happen then? I doubt that all your problems will go away and you will suddenly feel confident in approaching another woman. I doubt you can just rationalize your infatuation with this girl away, and even if you could it would not improve your situation. Ignoring this will only make things worse for you. I don't believe you have the capability to just get over this girl and I think anyone recommending such a thing has no understanding of your situation.
Stop taking the easy way out. Don't make excuses to let yourself off the hook. Have the courage to take responsibility for your own life. From what you describe, this goes beyond normal shyness. You shouldn't allow yourself to continue through life without the ability to form meaningful relationships. It would be very unhealthy. You should definately talk to someone at your school who is qualified to advise you.
You will be rejected by women. The only way to get around that is to avoid women completely. But if you never try you will never know what love is. Your imagination is the best you will ever have. In order to succeed you have to be willing to take risks and accept responsibility for yourself. Parents are not responsible for their adult children. Polls are not responsible for your success or failure. An adult makes their own decisions. I feel that you allow other's opinions of you determine how you view yourself. Make some decisions for yourself and then find the courage to act on your decisions. Advice is often helpful, but it will not get you what you want.
Do something about your situation. You are still young and the situation is not hopeless. I recommend introducing yourself to any woman you meet in a random manner, just to build confidence in approaching women. Astronuc's idea of waving to this girl and determining if she actually wants to talk to you seems good to me also. Definately talk to a counselor at your school. Send her an e-mail if you like, but expect no response if you tell her any of the things you have written here. Examine your self image and try to determine how much is real and how much is what you think others think of you.
Good luck :wink:
I've got to say that being this obsessed with someone you've only glanced at a few times and never spoken to and for it to go on for this long falls under the category of obsessed. At least you aren't stalking her.
The fact that you've considered sending her an e-mail to tell her that she's special to you is not a good sign. How could someone you've never interacted with even in a group be "special" to you. You seem to have created a fantasy about this girl and it is not healthy.
I would suggest that with this fantasy you've created, you should not contact her. If you cannot rid yourself of this obsessive fantasy, seek professional help.
Monique
May22-07, 03:37 PM
Ignoring this will only make things worse for you. I don't believe you have the capability to just get over this girl and I think anyone recommending such a thing has no understanding of your situation.
I think he should forget about this particular girl, people have crushes involving people that are out of reach and then grow over it. I think everyone has had these high school crushes. Later you realize that you really weren't compatible and that it was a nice experience to have such feelings for someone, but that they weren't realistic. I once had such a crush for someone in high school, I never contacted him and there are no hard feelings.
I think ILEW should work on really getting to know girls, without any obstructions and barriers. Obviously he has a HUGE barrier build for the current girl, she's out of reach and I'd leave it at that. If you're supposed to meet, it will happen, the circumstances will be better when you just let it happen instead of forcing a relationship.
Talk to girls that you don't find intimidating and learn from interacting with them. You'll probably soon find a girl you like, since you've already contacted her the barrier will be low to continue the relationship.
Huckleberry
May22-07, 03:49 PM
I don't think he can forget her until she rejects him. Even if he could, he would likely soon replace her with another fantasy girl. This isn't just a crush. This is an obsessive fantasy that has been ongoing for 10 years from a time when they were just children. He needs to learn how to accept rejection. It will help him with more than just relationships. It will help him assert himself in all areas of his life. I suspect that he needs an identity seperate from what others think of him.
Moonbear
May22-07, 03:54 PM
Quite frankly, I think it's time for him to seek a counselor or other professional help to be able to 1) let this go, and 2) learn to have the confidence to look someone in the eye and talk to them! Obviously, the second problem is part of what has led to the first problem. Not be able to even look up at someone and say "hello" is going to create more problems than just lack of dates. This is a life skill that is needed not just for social relationships, but for professional ones as well. If you're so shy that you can't look someone in the eye when talking to them, and so nervous about it that you stammer over all your words, you're going to have trouble getting through job interviews, meetings with co-workers, etc. Deal with that problem first, and once you've overcome that shyness, you'll start noticing other women and they'll notice you and it'll be easier to put this one out of your mind (or to finally just ask her and get the rejection over with...or who knows, if you get your act together, she might find you more interesting and will say yes, but that will NEVER happen if you're too scared to even talk to her let alone ask her out).
I don't think he can forget her until she rejects him. Even if he could, he would likely soon replace her with another fantasy girl. This isn't just a crush. This is an obsessive fantasy that has been ongoing for 10 years from a time when they were just children. He needs to learn how to accept rejection. It will help him with more than just relationships. It will help him assert himself in all areas of his life. I suspect that he needs an identity seperate from what others think of him.So if she doesn't answer another e-mail can we tell him to take that as a rejection and move on? No answer may be the only rejection he gets.
Huckleberry
May22-07, 04:31 PM
So if she doesn't answer another e-mail can we tell him to take that as a rejection and move on? No answer may be the only rejection he gets. Only ILEW can decide when he feels that he has been fully rejected. Hopefully he can do it without frightening her too badly. I think he needs to see for himself that she is not the woman in his imagination. Or like Moonbear said, if he gets his act together, this girl might react positively. My magic 8 ball says "chances are slim".
What I would do is send a short message to arrange a meeting in a public place to catch up on the last ten years. Then, if she responds, I would force myself to go and talk to her in person. It's harder to dispute a rejection when it is done in person.
If she does not respond to that e-mail I would send one more explaining as best I could how I felt. I'd lay out the last ten years and how meeting her affected me. If she still doesn't respond then the rejection is pretty clear and he should just stay away from her.
Either way, he should talk to a professional about this, someone who can determine how severe his problem is.
If she does not respond to that e-mail I would send one more explaining as best I could how I felt. I'd lay out the last ten years and how meeting her affected me.
He should send one email, by all means, but another email "explaining how he feels" is a very bad idea. If she does not reply to his first email asking to meet up, he should take this as a rejection. I will guarantee, that if he sends her an email explaining his feelings for her, having never even spoken, she will not reply. Furthermore, I wouldn't be suprised if it didn't scare the poor girl!
I think he should leave it, but if he must send one more email, then fair enough. However, he should realise when friendly behaviour becomes obsessive stalking.
Huckleberry
May22-07, 04:48 PM
I only recommended two e-mails because I think talking in person is better than describing his emotions in an e-mail. I think the important thing is to get this all out of his head an into the real world. Yeah, she could be scared, but no harm is done from an e-mail. Then at least he will have a real reason to avoid her and will find it difficult to continue the fantasy when it is undeniable that it does not match reality.
I wouldn't be surprised if the e-mail has already been sent.
If she does not respond to that e-mail I would send one more explaining as best I could how I felt. I'd lay out the last ten years and how meeting her affected me. Eeeeh, that's the point I would consider a restraining order. He never met her.
If I got an e-mail from someone saying "you don't know me but I have been obsessed with you since I was a child" they would not get a reply.
Huckleberry
May22-07, 05:26 PM
Well, hopefully he words it better than that. Something like, "I regret never having spoken to you. I wish I had the courage years ago to do so. I have problems expressing myself to women. I just wanted to let you know this so I could move on. This is my 12 step program for hopeless romantics. I hope you understand. Thanks for hearing me out. I wish you well."
That and a bunch of other everyday life things shouldn't scare her too bad, ya think? I think what would be too frightening is if the letter was directed to her in a manner that seeks her affection, rather than acknowledging the end of an obsession. I'd play it down to a crush as much as possible by leaving out highly charged emotional words and writing in a matter-of-fact manner.
This is my 12 step program for hopeless romantics.
So now it's an addiction thats comparable to, say, someone who's life is destroyed by alcohol or drugs? :rolleyes: I think not. This is a girl he doesn't know, has never met or spoken to, and doesn't even know what she looks like.
Monique
May22-07, 05:45 PM
Well, hopefully he words it better than that. Something like, "I regret never having spoken to you. I wish I had the courage years ago to do so. I have problems expressing myself to women. I just wanted to let you know this so I could move on. This is my 12 step program for hopeless romantics. I hope you understand. Thanks for hearing me out. I wish you well."
If someone wrote that to me I'd be like: :uhh: "uhh.. ok" unless it's someone I've actually interacted with and was somewhat befriended.
Huckleberry
May22-07, 06:36 PM
So now it's an addiction thats comparable to, say, someone who's life is destroyed by alcohol or drugs? :rolleyes: I think not. This is a girl he doesn't know, has never met or spoken to, and doesn't even know what she looks like.
I'm not being literal. It's just some humor. Someone with a severe social disorder can have their life destroyed just as easily as they could with drugs and alcohol. These disorders can often lead to those abuses also. Not being able to form relationships is a very harmful disorder. I'm making light of a potentially serious situation.
If someone wrote that to me I'd be like: "uhh.. ok" unless it's someone I've actually interacted with and was somewhat befriended. It doesn't really matter what she thinks as long as she isn't so frightened that she feels a need to take legal action. The idea is to get the feelings across with a minimal amount of creepiness so they don't have to be bottled up for the rest of his life.
Astronuc
May22-07, 07:48 PM
Well, hopefully he words it better than that. Something like, "I regret never having spoken to you. I wish I had the courage years ago to do so. I have problems expressing myself to women. I just wanted to let you know this so I could move on. This is my 12 step program for hopeless romantics. I hope you understand. Thanks for hearing me out. I wish you well." I wouldn't mentioned the 12 step program, but one could simply convey that one has been very shy and awkward. Say something like, "please pardon my behavior, and I hope it has not caused any alarm." Then move on.
I am often bewildered why people just cannot come out and say what is in their heart - to simply be honest and straightforward. Those seem to be two qualities that are requisite for a successful and long-lasting relationship - whether its friendship or marriage.
Moonbear
May22-07, 08:33 PM
If someone wrote that to me I'd be like: :uhh: "uhh.. ok" unless it's someone I've actually interacted with and was somewhat befriended.
It doesn't really matter what she thinks as long as she isn't so frightened that she feels a need to take legal action. The idea is to get the feelings across with a minimal amount of creepiness so they don't have to be bottled up for the rest of his life.
If it was written exactly as you wrote above, my response would be the same as Monique's. And, I'd probably add his email address to my spam filter. If he wrote anything more, actually expressing his feelings as he is talking about her here, then I'd react more like Evo and start thinking "Save this email as evidence for the restraining order, and I think I'm going to shower with Lysol now." :yuck:
JasonRox
May22-07, 10:49 PM
I'm with Moonbear. He needs profesional help badly.
pivoxa15
May23-07, 06:42 AM
One of the reasons for liking her so much back then was because she seemed like someone I would like very much, i.e a female version of myself? Her friends were people I probably would have liked had I been female at the time. So it isn't just her physical attractivness but other things as well. That is why she seemed so perfect and such an opportunity gone missing. I have never dated anyone in my life but its as if, if I was going to date anyone than the first person in the world would be her. However we are different to when we were small. I have become more anti social but don't think she is, if not quite sociable by the look of things.
Talking this issue here has helped me a lot. I don't feel as bad about it anymore and not so freightened of her anymore.
What a long thread...
I had never ever talked to her before :confused:
ummm... could be a first step...
Astronuc
May23-07, 07:37 AM
I'm with Moonbear. He needs profesional help badly. As long as he's not wearing disposible diapers and driving cross-country to Florida, he's not there yet. :uhh:
Talking this issue here has helped me a lot. I don't feel as bad about it anymore and not so freightened of her anymore. Hopefully in real life, one uses one identity. I can understand the senstivity of the matter, but hopefully there are not more than two identities here.
dontdisturbmycircles
May23-07, 07:52 AM
Ouch.. I am assuming that he did not mean to switch over to the Pivoxa name and was just using ILEW for privacy... This may make it even worse considering the state it sounds like he is in.
pivoxa15
May23-07, 08:41 AM
Oh yeah. I'm sorry. It's all leaked out now. Anyway its good getting some advice from you people. I was just too embarrased which I assume is understandable but for me especially so to talk about these matters. Anyhow I am planning to give her one more email in a months time after I finish my exams and some time to reflect on the issue. However the probabilities are very low.
dontdisturbmycircles
May23-07, 08:49 AM
Good luck pivoxa.
Yes it is understandable. :smile:
JasonRox
May23-07, 09:07 AM
Just let her go man. Seriously, a 10 year crush is just unthinkable and creepy especially since you don't even know her and creepy even if you did know her.
If you have a hard time moving on from a girl you don't even know, just imagine how hard it would be to move on from rejection. If you haven't given up yet, you probably won't give up after rejection.
Anyways, I say leave her alone. The day she finds out you had this long crush she's going to think you're a ps......
Note: I personally wouldn't tell any girl you meet about the crush either. It'll freak them out.
honestrosewater
May23-07, 09:33 AM
Good luck pivoxa.
Yes it is understandable. :smile:Seconded. :smile: And I hope you meet more people with some compassion and understanding who can help you tame your worries.
Astronuc
May23-07, 09:52 AM
I concur with honestrosewater and dontdisturbmycircles. It is quite understandable. Time to overcome the handicap of anxiety and move forward.
Huckleberry
May23-07, 10:16 AM
Good luck pivoxa.
I apologize if I got a little dramatic. That happens sometimes. I think that if you do find someone who is understanding to your sensitivity you will have a powerful bond with that person. Thank you for sharing your situation with us. That takes real courage.
pivoxa15
May24-07, 07:17 AM
There is nothing to hide now. I actually created ILEW just for discussion about matters related to her. Yes she is actually taller than me a little maybe an inch or two. That just adds more unlikliness on top of everything else.
Astronuc
May24-07, 08:11 AM
There is nothing to hide now. I actually created ILEW just for discussion about matters related to her. Yes she is actually taller than me a little maybe an inch or two. That just adds more unlikeliness on top of everything else. Not necessarily - it depends on her. Some women (perhaps a majority) prefer a taller man. Try to resist applying generalities in human behavior to individuals.
Too bad you didn't make a post on this before you sent the second email. :frown:
At this point, I would recommend not going out of one's way to contact her, but if you should by chance encounter her again - wave (if at a distance) or if nearby (say Hi). But perhaps just let it go.
pivoxa15
May24-07, 08:29 AM
Not necessarily - it depends on her. Some women (perhaps a majority) prefer a taller man. Try to resist applying generalities in human behavior to individuals.
There is good reason to think she is part of the majority. The fact is it creates extra reason for me to let it go.
Too bad you didn't make a post on this before you sent the second email. :frown:
Yeah that is one thing I really regret. I assumed she liked me and all I needed to do was to confirm that I liked her. The fact that she didn't reply the second email suggest that is far from the truth.
Wh...what? ILEW is pivoxa15? What's this, some kind of soap opera? :tongue:
Anyways pivoxa, good luck. :wink:
Astronuc
May24-07, 09:02 AM
I assumed she liked me Well, therein lies the problem. Having not had a conversation or exchange in the past, she doesn't even know you, and you don't know her. She might have noticed you some time in the past. Back in post #33, she probably recognized you on the bus and at least then, she felt comfortable enough to stand next to you. That was certainly an opportunity missed.
From her perspective, your behavior (avoidance) has been rather strange, and has perhaps now made her uncomfortable. Perhaps one should not attempt further contact, but rather learn from the experience and move on.
Moonbear
May24-07, 09:40 AM
One of the reasons for liking her so much back then was because she seemed like someone I would like very much, i.e a female version of myself? Her friends were people I probably would have liked had I been female at the time. So it isn't just her physical attractivness but other things as well.
This is the part I still don't understand. If you've never spoken to her, how do you know she is someone you'd like to be like? And, why do you still think it's more than just physical attraction? It really sounds like that's ALL it could be. I also think your fixation on this one person is preventing you from seeing the REAL attractiveness of others because you've set an imaginary ideal in your mind that no real person can ever attain or match.
My advice to seek counseling still stands. As I mentioned earlier, this is about more than just talking to women and getting dates, this is about being able to overcome extreme shyness so you can function in the world. If you don't feel comfortable jumping straight in and discussing your fixation on this one woman with a counselor, start out just by addressing the more general issue of shyness and nervousness about talking to people. Heck, just the practice of talking to a counselor will help you learn to talk with other people who are new to you.
In the meantime, I have a homework assignment for you...make it your goal to make the effort at least once daily to look up at someone you pass when walking, smile and say "Hi." A few will just keep walking, some will be confused trying to figure out if they know you, and most will smile and say "hi" back. It's a very small thing to do that will spread a smile to others and start helping you gain confidence that most of the time, you get a positive reward for saying hi because they smile back, and the rest of the time, nothing bad happens. And, if you say hi to the people who work at the counter of places you frequent (i.e., coffee shops, library, computer lab, etc.), you may find that leads to some conversation and new friends, or at least more pleasant service. :smile:
pivoxa15
May25-07, 08:31 AM
This is the part I still don't understand. If you've never spoken to her, how do you know she is someone you'd like to be like? And, why do you still think it's more than just physical attraction?
In fact I don't understand that part either. I remember asking that same question to myself 10 years ago. I can remember many other attractive girls (some even more attractive than her) in the school but the fact that I was crazy about this one but none of the others is what makes her special to me. It puzzled me why I like her so much. So it must be because of other matters.
JasonRox
May25-07, 10:30 AM
In fact I don't understand that part either. I remember asking that same question to myself 10 years ago. I can remember many other attractive girls (some even more attractive than her) in the school but the fact that I was crazy about this one but none of the others is what makes her special to me. It puzzled me why I like her so much. So it must be because of other matters.
You say it like it may be something romantic that you have with her, but really it's not romantic at all.
Have you thought about counseling?
Huckleberry
May25-07, 11:50 AM
Words don't mean much. People form attractions very quickly even without speaking to one another. She may have just smiled at you or looked at you for more than a few seconds. Maybe she showed some kind of interest in some other way and you picked up on it. That's all it takes to form an attraction.
I'd guess that you formed an attraction to this girl early in the school year and carried that attraction to the exclusion of all others and you lean heavily toward monogamous relationships. I don't believe it is only a physical attraction, though it may have started that way. Somewhere in the first few minutes of encountering this girl you made a decision that you would like to have a relationship with her. You want to know about her, what books she likes, what kind of humor she appreciates, what her family is like, that sort of thing. This is a crush.
Then, because you had no communication with this girl, but the attraction still held you, the curiousity about her became a series of 'what if' scenarios that eventually formed into the fantasy. The attraction isn't physical because the attraction persists even without physical contact. The attraction is based on presumed qualities that she possesses in the fantasy. This is something more than a crush.
This is why I mentioned that if you found a real person to be this devoted to you could have a very strong bond if they felt likewise.
My exams are over and had some time to reflect on the issue. Just to keep things consistent I think it is best to post under this username. I haven't tried consuelling because I have the ability to overcome this urge if it must. i.e if she dosen't reply to another email I send her in the future, if that is to happen.
What I want to know are the reasons why she hasn't replied to my second email. I haven't sent her another one by the way.
She dosen't know me at all so can't be that she hates me. The fact that she replied to my first email suggests she is at least neutral. I told her I was doing maths and thinking of doing postgrad studies in pure maths in the future. We can actually check which department students are studying in our database and it looks like she is taking subjects from the education department, specifically in primary school teaching (quite ironic as we 'met' in primary school) as I have checked their program. So could it be that she sensed there was too much contrast between what I'm doing and what she is doing even though we're both interested in education? And a bit embarrassed and so dosen't want to associate with me? I actually thought it was a good sign as she was into education. And probably a decent person as a result.
Maybe she replied to the first email because she is obviously interested in her own primary school 'mates' and what their doing but isn't interested in me personally at all. And never did in the first place?
Another reason could be that she already has a boyfriend and sensed my intensions from my second email and so didn't want to associate with me anymore even though she liked me? Although I guess it dosen't matter if that like isn't strong. Just as well that she didn't like me in the first place. I am shorter than her by about an inch or two. She is 5'11-6'0 so quite tall. That reduces my chances even more. But the thing is, I've always thought there was attraction between us even though we never spoked to each other before. But that could be my own illusion.
In my second email, I told her that I had known her for 11 years. Maybe that was a mistake. She might be a bit freaked out and think that I might stalk her or something if she replied and gave me more information. One of the reasons I like to write another email to her is simply to say that I am not crazy and will never do a thing like that although not explicitly.
My exams are over and had some time to reflect on the issue. Just to keep things consistent I think it is best to post under this username. I haven't tried consuelling because I have the ability to overcome this urge if it must. i.e if she dosen't reply to another email I send her in the future, if that is to happen.
Counseling is good.
What I want to know are the reasons why she hasn't replied to my second email. I haven't sent her another one by the way.
If someone you meet over the internet says they've been watching you for years without you noticing them, would you reply?
And a bit embarrassed and so doesn't want to associate with me?
Why would she be embarrassed?
Another reason could be that she already has a boyfriend and sensed my intensions from my second email and so didn't want to associate with me anymore even though she liked me?
Your brain is trying to find excuses to avoid being disappointed. If you want the real answer, confront her directly.
But the thing is, I've always thought there was attraction between us even though we never spoked to each other before. But that could be my own illusion.
Why would there be any form of attraction between the two of you aside from infatuation when you never even talked?
Moonbear
Jun21-07, 09:31 AM
My exams are over and had some time to reflect on the issue. Just to keep things consistent I think it is best to post under this username. I haven't tried consuelling because I have the ability to overcome this urge if it must. i.e if she dosen't reply to another email I send her in the future, if that is to happen.
The point of the counseling is to get you over these feelings you can't seem to get over yourself, not about whether you can keep yourself from contacting her...you obviously can't get her out of your head. And you're still putting conditions on everything..."if she doesn't reply to another email." She already didn't reply to the last one, you're finished, over, done, and you have to get that.
What I want to know are the reasons why she hasn't replied to my second email. I haven't sent her another one by the way.
She dosen't know me at all...
BINGO!!! Why should she reply or take an interest or even care? You're just some classmate from high school she wasn't even friends with. If you had been friends in high school, sure, it might have been cool to get in touch again if you're at the same college, but you weren't even friends in school. This is what you have to get, you are NOTHING to her...there's no reason for any of this other than you don't even cross her mind, you're just another face in the yearbook of people she never had a reason to want to know. Please, seek counseling. It is not healthy to have the sort of feelings you have for her running around your mind and not to be able to let go of them when she has given you NO reason to think it could ever lead to anything. How will you ever move forward into a normal, healthy relationship with an available, interested young lady when you still have this fictitious fantasy girl as the center of your desires?
In my second email, I told her that I had known her for 11 years. Maybe that was a mistake. She might be a bit freaked out and think that I might stalk her or something if she replied and gave me more information. One of the reasons I like to write another email to her is simply to say that I am not crazy and will never do a thing like that although not explicitly.
No, if you disappear again and leave her alone, she'll know you're not a stalker. If you start sending emails telling her you're not a stalker, then she'll be certain you are!
Interesting, Moonbear. We didn't go to the same high school unfortunately. The other thing is even if she were to become interested, I wouldn't spend too much with her because I spend a lot of or basically all my time studying during semester. I was overloading last semester and even told her that, how stupid. I am planning to overload next semester as well as I am a bit of a workaholic or just a love of learning. Yet more reasons to stop this.
I was also thinking of telling her that I was a bit lost and out of my mind with my previous email and that I was just a bit too shy in the past and still is. But you might say that she already knew that especially the former and don't need me confirming it?
sara_87
Jun21-07, 07:36 PM
ILEW do you really like this girl?
stupid question :rolleyes:
of course you do, you're obsessed!
anyway if you truly love her and you only want the absolute best for her then i would advise you to stay away from her, and to move to a different area and forget about her so that she can live a nice happy life without the thought of someone stalking her... it can get very creepy!
i'm sure that you're a great person and all but try not to notice her just to make her happy, because that is what you truly want, no? you want what is best for her because you love her, yeah?
so do the right thing and never ever contact her or tell her your feelings about her, and especially don't tell her that you've known her for 10 years because that will only freak her out...
i would imagine that this is very hard for you but just try to ignore her and go out a little more... join some kind of club it will fill up your time so that you don't have to think about her so much, and it will give you an opportunity to socialise more
good luck!
(i don't know if someone else said this before because i didn't read all the posts properly, if they did sorry for repeating)
ILEW do you really like this girl?
stupid question :rolleyes:
of course you do, you're obsessed!
anyway if you truly love her and you only want the absolute best for her then i would advise you to stay away from her, and to move to a different area and forget about her so that she can live a nice happy life without the thought of someone stalking her... it can get very creepy!
i'm sure that you're a great person and all but try not to notice her just to make her happy, because that is what you truly want, no? you want what is best for her because you love her, yeah?
so do the right thing and never ever contact her or tell her your feelings about her, and especially don't tell her that you've known her for 10 years because that will only freak her out...
i would imagine that this is very hard for you but just try to ignore her and go out a little more... join some kind of club it will fill up your time so that you don't have to think about her so much, and it will give you an opportunity to socialise more
good luck!
(i don't know if someone else said this before because i didn't read all the posts properly, if they did sorry for repeating)
I am a pessimist and made things sound bad by using words like stalking. I don't know what is on her mind at all as I have never talked to her. I would never ever do such a thing and why would I? I'd go for the books instead.
Your talk of taking some kind of moral high ground has actually been on my mind in the past and one of the reasons why I use to avoid her. But recently things have been too overwhelming inside me, biologically and I just had to make a move. But things ended before it started.
sara_87
Jun21-07, 08:10 PM
ILEW please re-read what some of the other people have said on here, some of it seems really good, because i'm not really one for giving advice
but what i do is that girls don't like it when they know that someone they barely know is really into them... freaky you know? lol
and it is clear that she doesn't want much to do with you since she didn't reply to your message... ok?
there are loads of other people out there; just try to move on now (it's about time) and try to forget about her and concentrate on your studies fully now (i think you already do this) try to socialise more as this will give you a chance to mix with new people and you can get a job... have a life... and without you noticing you'll forget about this girl and you would meet someone when you least expect it
try and imagine if it was the opposite... as in you once or twice looked at someone 10 years ago then some time later this random girl suddenly tells you that she's been in love with you for 10 years... what would you do/say? how would you feel?
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