Made in China? Danger! Throw it away!!!

[Ivan Seeking]

More gifts from the Chinese manufacturers.

... The U.S. Food and Drug Administration advised consumers to "avoid using tubes of toothpaste labeled as made in China," according to a statement posted on the agency's Web site.

"Out of an abundance of caution, FDA suggests that consumers throw away toothpaste labeled as made in China," the statement said. [continued]
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/06/28/china.tainted.food.ap/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

[turbo-1]

China is the "wild west" of manufacturing as western companies set up factories and/or set up import arrangements with entities in a country with little or no enforceable safety regulations and exploit the poor wages/benefits/work rules to make fortunes quickly. My wife was in a strip mall today and popped into a newish "dollar store" type of outlet to take a look. Her first comment to me was that almost everything in the store came from China and she's not going back.

[edward]

There is just so much stuff made in China it is scary. I am remodeling one of my bathrooms. My wife picked out a modest ($500) vanity with a granite top.

We got the thing home and only then did I see the made in China label on the back of the box. I started looking at other items I had purchased; a light switch, a ground fault circuit interrupter , two ceramic tile cutters and all were made in China.

The Leviton switch and GFCI were the two that really surprised me. At both Home Depot and Lowes all of the electrical items were made in China. So are most all of the tools. hells bells even the nails are made in China.:grumpy:

Sure we can get products cheaper, but don't tell me that I have a choice when everything is made in China. In a few years we won't even know how to build a factory.

As far as the food items go: First it was the dog food, then the toothpaste, then the lead in children's toys, now we hear this:

BEIJING (AP) - Chinese media are reporting that authorities have shut down 180 food factories, after inspectors found industrial chemicals in products from candy to seafood.

Authorities say formaldehyde, illegal dyes and industrial wax were used to make candy, pickles, crackers and seafood. And they discovered some factories churning out products that used recycled or expired food.:yuck:

http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/provider/providerarticle.aspx?feed=AP&Date=20070627&ID=6960052

Sure they shut down some food factories, but most of the factories that China has shut down are here in the good old USA.

[JasonRox]

There is just so much stuff made in China it is scary. I am remodeling one of my bathrooms. My wife picked out a modest ($500) vanity with a granite top.

We got the thing home and only then did I see the made in China label on the back of the box. I started looking at other items I had purchased; a light switch, a ground fault circuit interrupter , two ceramic tile cutters and all were made in China.

The Leviton switch and GFCI were the two that really surprised me. At both Home Depot and Lowes all of the electrical items were made in China. So are most all of the tools. hells bells even the nails are made in China.:grumpy:

Sure we can get products cheaper, but don't tell me that I have a choice when everything is made in China. In a few years we won't even know how to build a factory.

As far as the food items go: First it was the dog food, then the toothpaste, then the lead in children's toys, now we hear this:

:yuck:

http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/provider/providerarticle.aspx?feed=AP&Date=20070627&ID=6960052

Sure they shut down some food factories, but most of the factories that China has shut down are here in the good old USA.

Another reason to eat fresh real food. :approve:

Remember, the US has it's problems too...

[MadScientist 1000]

As a fellow Indian, we offer you to buy from the world-famous megacorporation, India Inc. For a limited time only, we are offering discounts on all rotis, samosas, and software packages. So remember, buy from India Inc, the awesome guys o:)

On a more serious note, the level of manufacturing in China is abysmal. Their whole quantity over quality approach has spread from their military ideology textbooks to their factories. Right now, I'm wondering whether that package of Tilapia (the best tasting fish in the entire world) sitting in the freezer is safe to eat, and whether that reddish tint in the fish is industrial dye.

[edward]

As a fellow Indian, we offer you to buy from the world-famous megacorporation, India Inc. For a limited time only, we are offering discounts on all rotis, samosas, and software packages. So remember, buy from India Inc, the awesome guys o:)

On a more serious note, the level of manufacturing in China is abysmal. Their whole quantity over quality approach has spread from their military ideology textbooks to their factories. Right now, I'm wondering whether that package of Tilapia (the best tasting fish in the entire world) sitting in the freezer is safe to eat, and whether that reddish tint in the fish is industrial dye.

As far as I know most of the tilapia sold in the U.S. is grown on fish farms in this country. Ironically even some of the fish food sold to commercial growers contained the same contaminant from China that was found in the dog food.:yuck:

[Evo]

China To Execute Chief Food Inspector

The former head of China's food and drug administration was sentenced to death Tuesday for taking bribes to approve substandard medicines — including an antibiotic blamed for at least 10 deaths.

Seeking to address broadening concerns over food, the government also announced plans for its first recall system for unsafe products.

The developments are among the most dramatic steps Beijing has publicly taken to address domestic and international alarm over shoddy and unsafe Chinese goods — from pet food ingredients and toothpaste mixed with industrial chemicals to tainted antibiotics.

Beijing's No. 1 Intermediate People's Court convicted Zheng Xiaoyu of taking bribes in cash and gifts worth more than 6.49 million yuan ($832,000) while he was director of the State Food and Drug Administration, the official Xinhua News Agency said. Those bribes allowed eight companies to get around drug approval standards, it said.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/05/29/health/main2860989.shtml

[shramana]

There have been so many threads complianing about the quality of goods from China, but what I don't understand is why are there no import regulations in U.S., and if there are any how does all this stuff enter U.S. markets?

[Evo]

There have been so many threads complianing about the quality of goods from China, but what I don't understand is why are there no import regulations in U.S., and if there are any how does all this stuff enter U.S. markets?So much is imported into the US every day that it would not be feaseable to open and chemically test even a fraction of what comes across the border. So, unless there is some suspicion about a shipment, the items are passed through without inspection.

As you can see in the attached Customs process, a company can have their product "pre-approved" by providing test results of a sample their product that they paid to have done at a lab of their choice to show that their product is in compliance. :eek: See "IMPORTERS CAN SPEED FOOD ENTRIES!" at the bottom of the document.

http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~lrd/import.html

[wolram]

You can buy a pallet load of cheap Chinese goods and sell them for 10 times the buy price, the stuff is junk but it sells like hot cakes.
example, a bag of 10 of each plastic knives ,spoons ,forks, buy about 5p
sell 50p.

I thought the thread was about Danger.

[Evo]

I thought the thread was about Danger.:rofl: Yeah Danger's been buying a lot of cheap stuff from China and Ivan wants him to throw it away. :biggrin:

[FredGarvin]

I saw a story similar to the one Ivan posted on a couple of months ago. It was about toothpaste that was bought in dollar stores that was loaded with fluorine. If there is ever a time that brand recognition is worth the extra couple of bucks, this is it.

[Adder_Noir]

If this selling out of our own home grown labour keeps going then soon we will (the West) be in serious trouble. Eventually I wonder if we'll be in a market where the consumers 'answer' to the manufacturers.

God help us if a war breaks out between the West and China (I'm not saying it will) we won't know how to build anything and they'll have all the expertise at manufacturing!

As a race though I like them personally, just wish they were a bit more human rights orientated.

[edward]

As I mentioned previously I am remodeling a bathroom. I decided to replace the nails in the old Sheetrock with screws. I went to home depot and got some, guess where they were made?

So were the; nails, hinges, and all of the cabinet hardware. Talk about our industry going down the crapper, Home Depot is now selling toilets made in China.:cry: Oh well, we still make the toilet paper, at least for now.

[moose]

As I mentioned previously I am remodeling a bathroom. I decided to replace the nails in the old Sheetrock with screws. I went to home depot and got some, guess where they were made?

So were the; nails, hinges, and all of the cabinet hardware. Talk about our industry going down the crapper, Home Depot is now selling toilets made in China.:cry: Oh well, we still make the toilet paper, at least for now.

That's why... Last time I was at a home depot, I felt like it was a walmart...

I think that at Ace Hardware and Radioshack there are some things that aren't made in China... I'll check sometime.

[Chi Meson]

As I mentioned previously I am remodeling a bathroom. I decided to replace the nails in the old Sheetrock with screws. I went to home depot and got some, guess where they were made?

So were the; nails, hinges, and all of the cabinet hardware. Talk about our industry going down the crapper, Home Depot is now selling toilets made in China.:cry: Oh well, we still make the toilet paper, at least for now.

I'm just about finished with installing a solar water heating system, which was a wild plumbing experience itself. Nearly everything I got at Home Depot or Lowes was made in China. The copper and brass fittings available at the local hardware stores ("Ace" and "True Value" franchises) were made in USA, but it would have increased my total cost by nearly $200 if I had bought them there.

In retrospect, I'm irritated with myself for being part of the whole problem. I saved approximately 5% of the entire cost by buying Chinese fittings. That's not even figuring in the 30% (of total cast) tax credit I get from the IRS. Unfortunately, all the fittings are soldered in place, and I can't return them.

[turbo-1]

I think that at Ace Hardware and Radioshock there are some things that aren't made in China... I'll check sometime.Check the garden tools at Ace - most likely from Taiwan. Certainly, many of the tools at the local True-Value stores come from there, and have for many years.

[Curious3141]

My friend cautioned me against eating some melon seeds that came from China. Apparently, these melon seeds were guaranteed to remain preserved for over 2 years. The secret sauce? Formaldehyde. :yuck:

[edward]

Will it ever end. I had no idea that China was this involved in our food supply.

General Mills, Kellogg, Toys “R” Us and other big American companies are increasing their scrutiny of thousands of everyday products they receive from Chinese suppliers, as widening recalls of items like toys and toothpaste force them to focus on potential hazards that were overlooked in the past.

Probably that damn Chinese wheat gluten again.

General Mills, which makes food products like Pillsbury dough and Chex cereals, is testing for potential contaminants that it did not look for previously, although it would not name the substances.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/01/business/01imports.html?ex=1340942400&en=36df7d4ed3d6f38f&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

They didn't look for contaminants. :yuck::yuck:

[Hurkyl]

They didn't look for contaminants. :yuck::yuck:
There's another (and IMHO far more plausible) reading of that quote... :tongue:

[Mk]

Are some people here seriously talking about boycotting Chinese products?

[Hurkyl]

I don't think it counts as a boycott if it's out of concern for your safety. :smile:

[Chi Meson]

Are some people here seriously talking about boycotting Chinese products?

I personally believe in buying quality products. If a good product comes from China, then that should be no reason against buying it. But when the playing field becomes unfairly tilted, and choice and competition is squeezed out, and quality declines through negligence and corruption, then yes, we ought to consider alternative purchases that might even be slightly more expensive. A boycott would be near impossible, but a significant "reconsideration of purchases" would have a overall beneficial effect, I think.

One of the "Made in China" items I hate the most are the ultra cheap plastic trinkets and doo-dads that we accumulate at birthday parties for our kids. These useless "toys" that cost $1 for a dozen are filling the "goodie bags" that are given to the guests as they leave. Whatever they are (little ball-in-the-maze puzzles, bendy straws,whistles, pencils pencils goddam pencils) they never work, and become landfill waste without ever being a true product.

[edward]

Are some people here seriously talking about boycotting Chinese products?

We can't boycott. In most cases the Chinese product is the only one available.

[turbo-1]

My wife bought some very attractive porcelain serving dishes/trays designed for serving snacks, hors d'ourves, etc. She got a bargain price and the colorful graphics would appeal to our nieces who would like to have something "cute" to serve stuff when entertaining, so she bought a lot to give as gifts. The problem is that they were made in China and we have no way of knowing if the colorful decorations under the glaze are lead-based. Now, we don't want to give them to the kids and my wife is going to try to return them. If that fails, I may buy some lead test kits or simply throw them out and consider it an expensive lesson learned.

[grant9076]

I also recommend being very hesitant about drinking tea from China. Here is a paragraph from an article by NPR.

When Hubbard was at the FDA, he heard all kinds of stories about foreign food processors, like the one a staffer told him after visiting a Chinese factory that makes herbal tea.

"To speed up the drying process, they would lay the tea leaves out on a huge warehouse floor and drive trucks over them so that the exhaust would more rapidly dry the leaves out," Hubbard says. "And the problem there is that the Chinese use leaded gasoline, so they were essentially spewing the lead over all these leaves."

That lead-contaminated herbal tea would only be caught by FDA inspectors at the border if they knew to look for it, Hubbard says.



Here is the article. (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=10410111)

[edward]

The consumer is more or less left in the dark when it comes to lead. The EPA does allow some lead in paint for instance. Despite the fact that recent studies shown that there is no safe level for lead in infants and toddlers, the EPA allows up to 10mcg per sq cm in paint. Anything over that is considered to be lead based paint by the EPA.

I can't find any info on what they allow in tableware. That would probably be left up to the FDA. ??

When I was reading an article about the number of vitamins and food supplements that come from China, this link from 2000 came to mind.

Substantial quantities of lead have been reported in some over-the-counter calcium supplement preparations, including not only bonemeal and dolomite, but also over-the-counter natural and refined calcium carbonate formulations. Examination of this issue is warranted given recent increases in physician recommendations for calcium supplements for prevention and treatment of osteoporosis.

http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/284/11/1425

I can't seem to find a link indicating that the FDA or EPA has done anything about this.

[Mk]

The consumer is more or less left in the dark when it comes to lead. The EPA does allow some lead in paint for instance. Despite the fact that recent studies shown that there is no safe level for lead in infants and toddlers, the EPA allows up to 10mcg per sq cm in paint. Anything over that is considered to be lead based paint by the EPA.

I keep asking about this!! There is no "safe" level for radiation, but you can hold uranium ore, or get an x-ray without worrying about it too much, simply because the risk is only cumulative.

[edward]

Good god, this article indicates that the FDA knew about the lead in calcium
supplements since 1983. This link is from 1993.

some calcium supplements contain lead. For children, even small amounts of this poisonous metal can be detrimental, leading to diminished IQ and stunted growth (SN: 1/27/90, p.63; 9/21/91, p.189). Indeed, more than 10 years ago the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) warned about the dangers of excess lead.

How can the average consumer find a lead-free calcium supplement? Right now, that's a tough task, admits FDA toxicologist Michael Bolger, who points out that the agency has no standards for lead in food supplements. However, FDA does plan to regulate the lead content of these supplements in the future, he says.

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Calcium+supplements+and+the+danger+of+lead-a014406189

I can't even imagine the levels of lead that may be coming in calcium supplements fro China. And it appears that the EPA has done nothing.

[edward]

I keep asking about this!! There is no "safe" level for radiation, but you can hold uranium ore, or get an x-ray without worrying about it too much, simply because the risk is only cumulative.

MK
That is pretty much the same with lead except for infants and toddlers. Edit: Infants who have milk allergies have been given calcium supplements for many years. The usual form of calcium for this is bone meal which is the worst form for lead content.

In adults small amounts of lead accumulated over a lifetime end up in the bone. At a certain age we all start to lose bone mass. It happens earlier in life for women.

When osteoporosis sets in the lead ends up back in the blood. This has only been realized in recent years. Ironically in recent years doctors have been telling women, even younger women, to take calcium supplements to ward off osteoporosis.

[turbo-1]

I can't even imagine the levels of lead that may be coming in calcium supplements fro China. And it appears that the EPA has done nothing.If the calcium is from naturally-occuring calcium carbonate minerals, it will contain admixtures of other materials, including heavy metals. It is probably safer to consume calcium additives that have been formed as precipitates in a well-regulated production environment. "Natural" is a word that many people equate with "safe" and that's just not so. There's a lot of stuff hat occurs naturally that will kill you if breathed, drunk, or eaten. An owner of a Western Maine rock shop likes to tell of the time a customer test-drove a Geiger counter in his shop, and discovered that a stock of large smoky quartz crystals he had purchased recently were hotter than a $2 pistol.

[edward]

The never ending tale of "stuff" from China:

SHIJIAZHUANG, China — If you pop a vitamin C tablet in your mouth, it's a good bet it came from China. Indeed, many of the world's vitamins are now made in China.

In less than a decade, China has captured 90 percent of the U.S. market for vitamin C, driving almost everyone else out of business.

Chinese pharmaceutical companies also have taken over much of the world market in the production of antibiotics, analgesics, enzymes and primary amino acids. According to an industry group, China makes 70 percent of the world's penicillin, 50 percent of its aspirin and 35 percent of its acetaminophen (often sold under the brand name Tylenol), as well as the bulk of vitamins A, B12, C and E.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2003732744_vitamins03.html?syndication=rss

[Four]

What if people would be taught on to test for toxins in food by themselves. Like this the community will be part of finding toxins in foods.

The problem I can think of is that many people won't want to learn.

[edward]

There are so many food items coming in such great quantities from China that the FDA is looking at only high risk items. High risk means that there has already been a problem.

So instead the FDA saves its fire for the high-risk goods that have caused health problems. That's what happened in early June with Chinese-made toothpaste. Following 100 deaths in Panama linked to cough syrup containing diethylene glycol (the ingredient had been mislabeled as glycerin, which is harmless), the FDA issued an import alert on all toothpaste made in China, tested the tubes it could find for the toxin and recalled the questionable batches. "Obviously it's not possible for us to test every product that is coming in to make sure it's meeting every standard we have," Acheson says. "It's got to be based on risk."

That's an efficient use of resources, but it makes the FDA a "tombstone" agency: nothing happens unless someone dies. "Consumers are the canary in the coal mine for this system," says Caroline Smith DeWaal of the Center for Science in the Public Interest. "That's not what a government program should do. It should anticipate and prevent problems."

This article from Time is a good read.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1638436,00.html

[Mallignamius]

Yahoo News reported that steamed buns in Beijing include cardboard.

BEIJING - Chopped cardboard, softened with an industrial chemical and flavored with fatty pork and powdered seasoning, is a main ingredient in batches of steamed buns sold in one Beijing neighborhood, state television said.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070712/ap_on_re_as/china_cardboard_buns

This is extremely unhealthy, right? And by what the article describes, is too common for comfort.

Why can't China nail this down?

[Evo]

Yahoo News reported that steamed buns in Beijing include cardboard.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070712/ap_on_re_as/china_cardboard_buns

This is extremely unhealthy, right? And by what the article describes, is too common for comfort.

Why can't China nail this down?:bugeye: :yuck: I wouldn't call cardboard as a filler unhealthy, perhaps the conditions in which it is served is unhealthy, I just don't think cardboard is very nutritious.

[Werg22]

As a fellow Indian, we offer you to buy from the world-famous megacorporation, India Inc. For a limited time only, we are offering discounts on all rotis, samosas, and software packages. So remember, buy from India Inc, the awesome guys o:)

On a more serious note, the level of manufacturing in China is abysmal. Their whole quantity over quality approach has spread from their military ideology textbooks to their factories. Right now, I'm wondering whether that package of Tilapia (the best tasting fish in the entire world) sitting in the freezer is safe to eat, and whether that reddish tint in the fish is industrial dye.

I'm sorry, but quality over quantity is a very important point of the Art of War.

[Greg Bernhardt]

:bugeye: :yuck: I wouldn't call cardboard as a filler unhealthy, perhaps the conditions in which it is served is unhealthy, I just don't think cardboard is very nutritious.

oh man I and love BBQ pork buns! :yuck:

[cronxeh]

China To Execute Chief Food Inspector



http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/05/29/health/main2860989.shtml

well at least the Chinese justice is ahead of the whole world :rolleyes:

swift and decisive, and the next guy will probably think twice too :biggrin:

[Mallignamius]

Whoops.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070719/ap_on_re_as/china_cardboard_buns

BEIJING - A freelance reporter for a Beijing television station has been detained for faking a hidden camera report about street vendors who used chemical-soaked cardboard to fill meat buns, local media said.

His bad. :grumpy:

[mgb_phys]

Thats a shame - i was jsut thinking that adding cardboard to burger buns would be a good way of incrasing fibre and reducing calories.
Cardboard is probably better for you than the average fast-food burger bun!

The other scare stories also happen in other countries. Austria got caught adding glycol to it's wine, and this is one of the richest most developed countries in the world. Of course 10years later no one will still buy austrian wine - which isn't really an option with china.

Some of the official responses look a lot like political band wagon jumping - many American food products are banned in the EU, the beef contains growth hormones and he soy/wheat is genetically modified. Is this real concern for public health or a stealth trade war?

[Evo]

Nearly Million Toys Recalled Because Of Concerns Over Lead Paint

Toy-maker Fisher-Price is recalling 83 types of toys - including the popular Big Bird, Elmo, Dora and Diego characters - because their paint contains excessive amounts of lead.
The worldwide recall being announced Thursday involves 967,000 plastic preschool toys made by a Chinese vendor and sold in the United States between May and August. It is the latest in a wave of recalls that has heightened global concern about the safety of Chinese-made products.

http://www.thekansascitychannel.com/news/13801539/detail.html?treets=kc1&tml=kc1_natlbreak&ts=T&tmi=kc1_natlbreak_1_06430108012007

[Evo]

Nearly Million Toys Recalled Because Of Concerns Over Lead Paint



http://www.thekansascitychannel.com/news/13801539/detail.html?treets=kc1&tml=kc1_natlbreak&ts=T&tmi=kc1_natlbreak_1_06430108012007

I don't know how many of you saw the expose the other night on Chinese counterfeit pharmaceuticals. These include blood pressure medicines that were found to have no active ingredients. Most drugs were made of drywall plaster. Some drugs coming in from South America were even more dangerous, they were drywall coated with lead based street paint.

[Schrodinger's Dog]

well at least the Chinese justice is ahead of the whole world :rolleyes:

swift and decisive, and the next guy will probably think twice too :biggrin:

:wink:

Yes swift and decisive and rids you of that expensive need to at least attempt to reform people, it's better than the US's system which is democratic and therefore even more expensive, appeal after appeal. It actually makes some weird sense over there, but I can't say I really approve of such harsh measures, especially under "communism", but perhaps I don't understand their legal system well enough to judge? It's an interesting question: is the death penalty working in China? Probably something for another day...

[matthyaouw]

I also recommend being very hesitant about drinking tea from China. Here is a paragraph from an article by NPR.



Here is the article. (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=10410111)

I have two huge jars of the nicest chinese tea I've ever tasted and now I'm afraid to drink it :cry: It is straight from China, brought by a relative so there's no chance of it being screened on the way in to the country.

Does anyone know if there's a cheap way to test for lead content?

[Schrodinger's Dog]

America is quite wary of the gradual Chinese rise to economic prosperity, it's understandable, but you do also have to ask if there isn't some underlying prejudice there, understandable prejudice, obviously the US has had a long history of dealing with Communist states, but prejudice none the less.

I mean you have to ask if a lot of the questions and perhaps slander/liable is based in the verifiable, or it's kneejerk suspicion? Hell though I'm suspicious of China, but perhaps at the same time pleased to see them integrating with the world in a way that gels with our more democratic approach. They will become an economic superpower that is something I think we need to get used to, and hopefully the benefit of a strong trading partner will be mutual. Hehe I can question the quality of their goods, perhaps they aren't great, but then they are a developing nation, would we expect their luxuries to be of the highest standard enjoyed by the West? Will their goods meet a higher standard when they have the infrastructure in place that we do?

Another question I would proffer is: is China moving towards democracy, is there a will to do so? Or is this only economic change and not a social change, have they seen the benefits the West enjoys and like Russia become enamoured with democracy under a very lack lustre system, or is this just cynical capitalist exploitation and are they still committed to the ideals of communism, under a facade of economic interest? As ironic as non-self sufficiency sounds considering to be self sufficient is a facet of communism.

[hypatia]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/08/01/toy.recall.ap/index.html

Fisher-Price recall.

The worldwide recall being announced Thursday involves 967,000 plastic preschool toys made by a Chinese vendor and sold in the United States between May and August. It is the latest in a wave of recalls that has heightened global concern about the safety of Chinese-made products.

[Evo]

America is quite wary of the gradual Chinese rise to economic prosperity, it's understandable, but you do also have to ask if there isn't some underlying prejudice there, understandable prejudice, obviously the US has had a long history of dealing with Communist states, but prejudice none the less.Did you miss my posts about the new Fisher Price lead painted toy recall and the counterfiet drugs?

This isn't prejudice, this is real and it's dangerous.

I don't know how many of you saw the expose the other night on Chinese counterfeit pharmaceuticals. These include blood pressure medicines that were found to have no active ingredients. Most drugs were made of drywall plaster. These counterfeit drugs are showing up at some of the top nationwide neighborhood pharamcies.

According to federal prosecutors, Julio Cruz, a convicted cocaine smuggler, was one of the ring-leaders in the group that made that fake Lipitor and sold it to drug stores and mail-order pharmacies throughout the United States.

And where are the bogus medicine being made? Graham showed us some examples: One was in a cave in China, where those pills in the teddy bears were made. We also saw pictures of a counterfeiting operation in Columbia, making both prescription and non-prescription bogus medicines— complete with yellow road paint as one the ingredients.

Graham: They use cement. [They use] the lead-based highway paint they used to provide the coloring.

Hansen: So in this case it’s not only counterfeit, but it’s dangerous.

Graham: Incredibly dangerous. Boric acid will cause renal failure in humans.

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/13099555/

[edward]

This whole "made in China" situation is getting out of hand.


June 10, 2007: The chinese pharmaceutical industry has cornered a major share of the world market in the production of antibiotics, analgesics, enzymes, and primary amino acids besides the bulk of vitamins A, B12, C and E flooring most of the competitors in these segments in recent years, according to reports.

Currently, China makes 70 percent of the world's penicillin, 50 percent of its aspirin and 35 percent of its acetaminophen (paracetamol.)

http://www.dancewithshadows.com/pharma2/china-antibiotics.asp

[Ivan Seeking]

This is whole "made in China" situation is getting out of hand.

Getting...?

First we were sold out for slave labor, now our kids and pets are being poisoned. The problem isn't the Chinese, it's corporate America [strike that. The problem is our government which refuses to level the playing field]. The Chinese are just doing things the way they have always done things, which is one reason why they are so competitive. It's easy to be competitive when you don't have any regulations.

[Schrodinger's Dog]

Yada yada yada, China is evil, yada yada yada, they eat dogs, yada yada yada, you guys are nothing if not predictable. :rolleyes: It's just fear, fear breeds contempt. Let's all get some perspective. They are going to be the largest economy in the world some day, you can either get with the program, like your entrepreneurs, or you can dig a hole and hide.http://www.planetsmilies.com/smilies/scared/scared0016.gif

I'm not saying you don't have legitimate concerns, just asking you to be careful not to take them too far. Do you not get weary of your media over hyping things, panic!!!! We're all going to die!!!!!!!!!!!! Know what I mean.

Americans complaining about unregulated capitalism, seems a bit odd, whatever next free trade?!?! :smile:

[ranger]

Lou Dobbs [Tonight; cnn] is pretty straight forward about his views on the importing thing. I love it when he calls whoever is responsible for this (setting standards, inspection, etc) a bunch of idiots - he asked "who is the idiot, group (?) of idiots, or agency of idiots..." I love it when he calls the Bush administration incompetent. :rofl:

[rockytriton]

looks like I will be throwing away a lot of my two kids toys because they contain lead paint. I thought we got rid of this kind of crap years ago!

I'm not one for bashing china or anything, hell I speak mandarin chinese pretty well, but come on, we need to have some way of solving this... No wonder its so much cheaper for companies to get their products made in other countries, they can get around our quality and safety standards doing so.

[Evo]

Yada yada yada, China is evil, yada yada yada, they eat dogs, yada yada yada, you guys are nothing if not predictable. :rolleyes: It's just fear, fear breeds contempt. Let's all get some perspective. They are going to be the largest economy in the world some day, you can either get with the program, like your entrepreneurs, or you can dig a hole and hide.http://www.planetsmilies.com/smilies/scared/scared0016.gif

I'm not saying you don't have legitimate concerns, just asking you to be careful not to take them too far. Do you not get weary of your media over hyping things, panic!!!! We're all going to die!!!!!!!!!!!! Know what I mean.

Americans complaining about unregulated capitalism, seems a bit odd, whatever next free trade?!?! :smile:It's not about competition, it's about dangerous, illegal, and counterfeit products.

Lou Dobbs [Tonight; cnn] is pretty straight forward about his views on the importing thing. I love it when he calls whoever is responsible for this (setting standards, inspection, etc) a bunch of idiots - he asked "who is the idiot, group (?) of idiots, or agency of idiots..." I love it when he calls the Bush administration incompetent. :rofl:

People have no idea how impossible it would be to run a chemical analysis on every shipment that comes into this country. We have laws and requirements, there is no way that every shipment can be tested and unscrupulous people know this. Right now there just seems to be a lot of illegal shipments coming from China.

[Schrodinger's Dog]

After reading three pages of this thread I'm not sure that is all it is. I detect an undercurrent of competition nerves. I think the US is genuinely worried it's going to lose it's top dog status to a bigger country, I think the high coverage of shoddy Chinese products is just a symptom of the increasing concern, I mean let's face it Chinese products have always been crap, but they haven't always been big news. When I was a lad it was made in Hong Kong meant that it would fall apart at the first use.

Don't worry you are going to become number two economically, ahh we had the number 1 spot once, enjoy it while it lasts, it's a changing planet :smile: actually I'm kinda glad we lost it, we were right arrogant nutters with it.

[Evo]

We're talking about poison, not commerce or function.

[Schrodinger's Dog]

I'm just saying read the thread and tell me there isn't an underlying hostility building, do you think that is solely based on concern about Chinese products quality? I find that hard to believe considering they have had a rep for producing tat for decades. Perhaps I'm way off the mark, perhaps I'm just making speculative claims? I just wanted to highlight that the threads general tone gave me some concern.

[turbo-1]

You can read "competition nerves" into this if you want to really stretch it, but our own marketing "geniuses" in the US have outsourced production of many vital and not-too-vital products to China, where product-quality and health issues are ignored, and where pirating and the production of fakes is rampant. Look at the lead issue. Lead oxide is used in paint to provide brightness and opacity, so thinner coats of paint can be used. In the US-made paints, these characteristics are obtained by the introduction of titanium dioxide, which is many times more expensive than lead oxide. Chinese manufacturers cut material costs any way they can, and they don't have reasonable regulations to prevent them from cutting costs by introducing toxins into their products. Fisher-Price is now recalling 1.5M toys because word got out about the lead in the paint. It would be really instructive to know how long the folks at F-P knew about the lead. Surely, they have quality-control folks who can randomly test a few products now and again and catch this stuff.

[ranger]

People have no idea how impossible it would be to run a chemical analysis on every shipment that comes into this country. We have laws and requirements, there is no way that every shipment can be tested and unscrupulous people know this. Right now there just seems to be a lot of illegal shipments coming from China.

Of course it will be impossible to track every shipment that comes in. But who are the ones that allowed this to become so overwhelming? As far as I can tell, we'd always use the above as an excuse and never do anything about it. Its good to live in a state of denial. If we have such laws and regulations, why aren't they in effect? Oh, I forgot its impossible. So then why have them?

[Evo]

Of course it will be impossible to track every shipment that comes in. But who are the ones that allowed this to become so overwhelming? As far as I can tell, we'd always use the above as an excuse and never do anything about it. Its good to live in a state of denial. If we have such laws and regulations, why aren't they in effect? Oh, I forgot its impossible. So then why have them?The laws are in effect and a lot of shipments are seized, you just don't hear about it. I previously posted the customs regulations which explains how companies become certified to import into the US.

[Moonbear]

I'm just saying read the thread and tell me there isn't an underlying hostility building, do you think that is solely based on concern about Chinese products quality? I find that hard to believe considering they have had a rep for producing tat for decades. Perhaps I'm way off the mark, perhaps I'm just making speculative claims? I just wanted to highlight that the threads general tone gave me some concern.

I think people have known for a long time that they produce cheap quality items, and haven't really been overly concerned when it was some gadget that broke after 6 months of use instead of 6 years as long as it was cheap. What is happening recently isn't about that, it's about unsafe, unhealthy, and flat out dangerous products being discovered in large quantities entering our market and our homes and putting us, our children and our pets in danger. This is the rising concern, that they are getting away with selling products here that do not meet our safety standards, and it's not just a few manufacturers or products, but a whole slew of them. People are just starting to become aware of how serious the problem is.

[turbo-1]

One thing that troubles me, Moonie, is that lead-testing kits are CHEAP! Can you believe that Fisher-Price ordered painted toys from China and didn't spot-check them to make sure they were free of lead? I find it hard to believe that someone from F-P wasn't aware of the lead issue with these toys before the recall, though if that could be proven, criminal charges should be filed.

[Evo]

One thing that troubles me, Moonie, is that lead-testing kits are CHEAP! Can you believe that Fisher-Price ordered painted toys from China and didn't spot-check them to make sure they were free of lead? I find it hard to believe that someone from F-P wasn't aware of the lead issue with these toys before the recall, though if that could be proven, criminal charges should be filed.The lead based paint was identified by Fisher Price internal quality control and they contacted the authorities and FP initiated the recall.

In an interview with The Associated Press on Wednesday, David Allmark, general manager of Fisher-Price, said the problem was detected by an internal probe and reported to the Consumer Product Safety Commission. The recall is particularly alarming since Mattel, known for its strict quality controls, is considered a role model in the toy industry for how it operates in China.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/08/01/toy.recall.ap/index.html

[turbo-1]

The lead based paint was identified by Fisher Price internal quality control and they contacted the authorities and FP initiated the recall.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/08/01/toy.recall.ap/index.html

Thanks, Evo. I was disturbed by the way the story came out. FP and the government should not have embargoed the story, but should have alerted customers with full details of affected products and lot numbers, etc, because apparently some of these toys had already hit the shelves. Apparently honest prompt disclosure is not in Mattel's business plan and the government accepted that condition in "negotiating" what should have been treated as a mandatory involuntary recall anyway.

[Evo]

Thanks, Evo. I was disturbed by the way the story came out. FP and the government should not have embargoed the story, but should have alerted customers with full details of affected products and lot numbers, etc, because apparently some of these toys had already hit the shelves. Apparently honest prompt disclosure is not in Mattel's business plan and the government accepted that condition in "negotiating" what should have been treated as a mandatory involuntary recall anyway.It looks like they wanted a day to set up a recall hotline and get the toys off the store shelves. It's not as if the toys pose an immediate danger and a 24 hour time frame to announce the recall doesn't seem unreasonable to me. It's not like e-coli infected food where time is of the essence.

[edward]

There is no excuse for FP not to have been checking the lead content all along. It is certainly easy enough to do. I think FP is now a division of Mattel. Lead in products from China has been a regular occurance for years.

Here is a link to a crayon recall from 1994. At that time they were probably manufactured in Taiwan.

http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml94/94055.html

Not all Chinese products are junk, a U.S. company usually gets the quality they order. Most of our small appliances and hand tools are now made in China. I recently bought a bathroom vanity with a granite top from Lowes. It was made in China.

[edward]

Here is a link to the Fisher Price recall with pictures and a description of each item. The suspect toys have been sold since May 1st.

http://service.mattel.com/us/recall/39054_IVR.asp?prod=

[turbo-1]

Thanks, Edward. When a Fisher-Price press release says that they recalled the toys before 2/3 of the toys got to store shelves, we should understand that of the entire production run, the entire first shipment to retailers DID hit the shelves and that the recall stopped the last 2/3 of the production run from being delivered as follow-on orders as the first ones sold out. F-P should have known (with just minimal testing) that the toys contained unacceptable levels of lead 3 months ago.

[Ivan Seeking]

Yada yada yada, China is evil, yada yada yada, they eat dogs, yada yada yada, you guys are nothing if not predictable. :rolleyes: It's just fear, fear breeds contempt. Let's all get some perspective. They are going to be the largest economy in the world some day, you can either get with the program, like your entrepreneurs, or you can dig a hole and hide.http://www.planetsmilies.com/smilies/scared/scared0016.gif

I'm not saying you don't have legitimate concerns, just asking you to be careful not to take them too far. Do you not get weary of your media over hyping things, panic!!!! We're all going to die!!!!!!!!!!!! Know what I mean.

Americans complaining about unregulated capitalism, seems a bit odd, whatever next free trade?!?! :smile:

The problem is that the Chinese don't have to honor US laws wrt safety, fair wage, pollution and emissions controls, materials safety, etc., nor do the smoke belching, coal fired power plants that power the Chinese factories; nor do the Chinese companies that are surely strip mining vast regions of China in order to supply their explosion of coal fired plants; nor do the coal and other raw materials processing plants; nor the companies making the mining equipment, etc, etc, etc.

We don’t have unregulated capitalism in this country, and for good reason. Instead we try to find a balance between the pubic interest, and the bottom line for industry. But in the interest of the share holder, or in the interest of importing cheap and dangerous products rather than buying US made, the corporations are in effect bypassing our laws and regulation of industry by going to China and other countries.

Would you support eliminating all controls on industry wrt safety, wage, environmental controls, public liability and the rest, worldwide, in order to allow US based and other manufacturers to compete with those based in China and other developing nations? This would be a free market – no controls, or comparatively few, just like the competition.

If we are to live in a global economy then we all have to play by the same rules. And as did we, the Chinese will have to come to terms with safety issues, quality controls, pollution laws and the rest, but this will only happen with time. As this happens and the playing field is leveled a bit, U.S. based industry will have a better chance to compete. However, in the mean time, I don’t care to be considered an expendable beta test for the success of the Chinese social and economic revolution. If they won’t test their products and regulate industry according to our standards, then we should impose the appropriate price increase for regular testing here in order to insure that the products meet US safety standards. And until the Chinese agree to meet US air and water quality standards, we should impose the applicable pollution taxes on imported products as well.

On a related note, when I call tech support for my Direct TV, Windows, or even some industrial products, I would like to speak with someone who actually knows and can speak English. The outsourcing of tech support to people who can't even communicate with the customer about the crap products that either don't work as claimed, or that one can't tell because the manual is in some hybrid language that only vaguely resembles English, has pesonally cost me a great deal of money in lost time.

[Schrodinger's Dog]

Evo linked how the Chinese govt were introducing new safety laws. At least people have stopped with the China bashing, to be frank it sounded like a load of women running around panicking, least that's the impression I got: no offence :tongue2::biggrin:.

Expecting a developing nation to have the same standards as a Western one, in what for it is new markets is entirely naive, give it time.

Oh and you can rebuke China for their output but they're just larger than yours were when you were developing because they have a higher population, no one told you to stop polluting in the industrial revolution of the 19th century did they? I think that's Kyoto mentality, it would be hypocritical to expect developing nations to leap frog the evolution towards development and be clean from the get go.In fact to expect a country to suddenly develop cleanly and safely over night is totally unrealistic. You might want to take a look at your own governmental policies on the environment over the last six years before you start throwing stones around as well.

[turbo-1]

Evo linked how the Chinese govt were introducing new safety laws. At least people have stopped with the China bashing, to be frank it sounded like a load of women running around panicking, least that's the impression I got: no offence :tongue2::biggrin:.

Expecting a developing nation to have the same standards as a Western one, in what for it is new markets is entirely naive, give it time.

Oh and you can rebuke China for their output but they're just larger than yours were when you were developing because they have a higher population, no one told you to stop polluting in the industrial revolution of the 19th century did they? I think that's Kyoto mentality, it would be hypocritical to expect developing nations to leap frog the evolution towards development and be clean from the get go.In fact to expect a country to suddenly develop cleanly and safely over night is totally unrealistic. You might want to take a look at your own governmental policies on the environment over the last six years before you start throwing stones around as well.This thread is not about how the bad Chinese people are polluting the environment. It is about the deliberate adulteration/poisoning of products for financial gain. If you substitute ethylene glycol for glycerin in toothpaste or cough syrup, people will be sickened and/or die (many died in Panama last year from poisoned cough syrup.) If you substitute lead carbonate for titanium dioxide in paint, or you substitute lead for more expensive alloys in children's jewelry or toys, you will increase the load of lead in the bodies of our children. These are not accidents, nor are they evidence of laxity on the part of the manufacturers. The manufactures making the paint, toothpaste, cough syrup, etc, deliberately adulterate the products with cheaper ingredients that they know are harmful, because they make more money that way. Lead carbonate and ethylene glycol are WAY cheaper than titanium dioxide and glycerin. Chinese manufacturers are not ignorant - they are deliberately putting harmful ingredients in their products because they can produce the products more cheaply, get bigger orders, and make more money. Right now, there is no practical way to stop them from continuing these practices, apart from we (as consumers) educating ourselves and refusing to buy products from China that may be problematic.

(Edited name of lead compound to most likely pigment.)

[Schrodinger's Dog]

I've already noted you have legitimate concerns, but I question whether there is not some exaggeration going on, and I question your media. Like I question my own, although not to the same extent, I watch the BBC and Channel 4 and they don't generally let their personal biases cloud a good story. Although the BBC's coverage of Israel has raised some questions...

This is just a little hokey to me, suddenly China are poisoning our children, taking our business and well you know the rest. I'd personally like to see how this develops instead of making a knee jerk reaction. I'm a little leary of doing that, so should most people be. The media do not always devolve themselves from their own personal feelings. And neither do you I think, if it's what you want to believe.

You have a concern but it is as grave as sensationalism makes out? Or is it perhaps a little more biased than that?

Just asking questions, not everything you read in the papers is gospel.

I always look deeper than the surface these days, I've been fooled before.

[Evo]

I seriously am going to think twice about what products I will buy from China. I don't think I'll be buying anything I can ingest from there that's made exclusively for American consumption. I don't think they are poisoning the products meant from Chinese consumption, so buying goods from an oriental store here is probably safer than buying products labeled for and sold to American stores.

Unfortunately with the counterfiet brand name drugs, it's really frightening because you have no way of knowing, and in this case, what you don't know can kill you.

[Evo]

SD, did you hear about the Chinese melamine poisoning in the US recemtly? It was initially thought to be rat poison, but it turned out that the Chinese had intentionally added melamine to artificially raise the protein count. The problem is melamine is poisonous.

http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=162174

[turbo-1]

I seriously am going to think twice about what products I will buy from China. I don't think I'll be buying anything I can ingest from there that's made exclusively for American consumption. I don't think they are poisoning the products meant from Chinese consumption, so buying goods from an oriental store here is probably safer than buying products labeled for and sold to American stores.

Unfortunately with the counterfiet brand name drugs, it's really frightening because you have no way of knowing, and in this case, what you don't know can kill you.I posted earlier about some painted and glazed decorative porcelain serving trays, platters, etc that my wife bought for gifts for our nieces. Luckily the local business where she bought them took them back without complaint, and the clerk she spoke to said that there had been a lot of them returned as people started hearing about the lead issues in Chinese-made products and questioned the contents of the paint and glaze. We certainly didn't want our family members using those servers and possibly poison themselves and their friends and children.

[turbo-1]

Although Xinhua soft-peddles product quality issues (adulteration), they have reported that China has banned hair gel products containing excessive methanol. For those not in the know, methanol can easily enter the body through skin contact and can cause blindness, among other problems. For an idea how pervasive the "adulteration for profit" problem is in China, 8 different cosmetics companies were producing these adulterated products.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2007-08/03/content_6470431.htm

[Ivan Seeking]

This is just a little hokey to me, suddenly China are poisoning our children, taking our business and well you know the rest.

There is nothing sudden about it. It has been building for a long time, but finally, FINALLY, recents events are forcing everyone to confront the issue. This tends to happen when people [and our pets] start dying.

And if they have to cheat by poisoning products for human use, maybe they're not as competitive as most people believe them to be.

[Ivan Seeking]

Oh and you can rebuke China for their output but they're just larger than yours were when you were developing because they have a higher population, no one told you to stop polluting in the industrial revolution of the 19th century did they? I think that's Kyoto mentality, it would be hypocritical to expect developing nations to leap frog the evolution towards development and be clean from the get go.In fact to expect a country to suddenly develop cleanly and safely over night is totally unrealistic.

You clearly have no understanding of what outsourcing has done the US manufacturing sector - it has been decimated. And the only reason this happened is unfair competition that results in polluted air and water, and poisoned products. The great lie about globalization is the difference between what's good for corporations, and what's in the public interest.

You might want to take a look at your own governmental policies on the environment over the last six years before you start throwing stones around as well.

Oh please, I doubt that any power plant or factory in China would even be allowed to operate here. There is no comparison.

[edward]

American companies who have production facilities in China are the frequent victims of intellectuall property theft. The Chinese government is of little help.

While counterfeit products are in markets throughout the world, business is particularly brisk in China, which is home to two-thirds of the world’s bogus and pirated goods. Last year alone, China confiscated 85 million counterfeit publications, from books and movies to computer discs. According to the Business Software Alliance, more than 90 percent of PCs in China are using pirated operating systems.

It’s little wonder why pirating goods, manufacturing knock-offs and violating intellectual property rights (IPR) is a winning strategy. It allows Chinese companies to skip the investment necessary to create and develop products and go directly to profits. No brand building. No advertising. No R&D headaches.

http://www.atkearney.com/main.taf?p=5,1,1,115,2


Their own very similiar version of the IPhone hit the market the same week the American phone did.

http://timesonline.typepad.com/technology/2007/07/chinese-iphone-.html


They are making rip offs of everything from medications, to golf clubs, to automobiles.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/01/26/60minutes/main595875.shtml

[edward]

Here we go again. This time inspections had been ordered by the FDA.

At least 1 million pounds of suspect Chinese seafood landed on American store shelves and dinner plates despite a Food and Drug Administration order that the shipments first be screened for banned drugs or chemicals, an Associated Press investigation found.

http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2007/08/07/ap3997232.html

[Evo]

It's really bad when so many importers from a single country are not meeting safety standards that the entire country is put on a watch list. Of course China is saying that it's illegal for the FDA to do this. The next problem is that the FDA doesn't have the manpower to do the testing.

I think the problems are serious enough that this should be a major campaign issue in the upcoming elections, we need someone that is going to take a strong stand on policing imports which is a real threat to public safety and focus less on moral and religious issues that really don't affect much aside from someone's personal beliefs.

[turbo-1]

Let's frame this in terms that the Chinese would certainly understand. They are making fortunes exporting unsafe products, and they are putting the cost of our protection on us. In other words, the US taxpayers are expected to pay for the privilege of trying to sample and test the imports to weed out the dangerous/poisonous ones. If the Chinese want free access to our markets, they should have to be subject to testing at the source, and they should be the ones who have to pay for the testing - to be done by certified labs using methods and equipment approved by the FDA, Underwriter's Laboratory, and others who certify US-made products as safe. There would be problems of graft/corruption/cheating, but the Chinese government knows that the loss of the US market would kill their economy, so they would gladly execute the cheaters that they catch. Let the Chinese bear the cost of getting their products tested and certified as safe - I'm sick of paying for a system that puts the cost of interdiction and testing on the US taxpayer.

We are playing a dangerous game by letting products into this country with no quality controls, and we are taxing our citizens to provide what is obviously an underfunded and understaffed screening process. In the process, we are damaging our domestic producers who have to bear the costs of certification and testing of their products, and adhere to reasonable standards of product safety. It's time to level the playing field.

[Ivan Seeking]

It was hard to see this one coming eh? :rolleyes:

...Treasuries fell earlier on a report in the U.K.'s Daily Telegraph that China, the second-largest foreign holder of U.S. government debt with $407 billion, is prepared to sell its holdings in the event of U.S.-imposed trade sanctions. Japan owns $615 billion of Treasuries.

China suggested it will sell holdings of Treasuries should the U.S. impose trade sanctions to force a yuan revaluation, reported the Telegraph, citing He Fan, an official at the government-backed Chinese Academy of Social Sciences, and Xia Bin, director of the financial research department of the State Council, or cabinet. Calls by Bloomberg News to a press official at China's State Administration of Foreign Exchange weren't answered.

Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson said in an interview with CNBC that it would be ``absurd'' to think China would sell the bonds. [continued]
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=a7x6i6Rlu9pY&refer=news

So, our government sells us out for decades, and now the plan is to force us to accept potentially dangerous products, or whatever China says, because they hold the debt card. Of course the world can't afford to have the US economy collapse, so unless the Chinese are planning to dump the new Toyotas go back to rickshaws...

[turbo-1]

It was hard to see this one coming eh? :rolleyes:If you had your eyes closed and your fingers in your ears, yelling "nyaah, nyaah, nyaah" you might have missed the signs.

[FredGarvin]

Add another log to the fire:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070809/ap_on_re_us/tire_problems;_ylt=AjEwV6TfAi.PfsNEJfnmQs.s0NUE

NEWARK, N.J. - A tire importer said Thursday it would recall 255,000 Chinese-made tires it claims were defective because they lack a safety feature that prevents tread separation.

It seems like piling on, but this is another example of short cuts from Chinese manufacturers.

[mgb_phys]

Why are they recalling them? I thought standard procedure with faulty tires was;
1- deny any problem,
2- sue anyone who says there is a problem,
3 - argue about who is liable, if there was a problem which there isn't,
4- respond to class action suit with more advertising.

[Ivan Seeking]

Quote approximate: "When I was growing up in Brooklyn, there was a myth that you could dig a hole that went all the way to China.
We're there." - Dennis Kucinich

[Ivan Seeking]

More Chinese toothpaste laced with antifreeze thickener recalled

INDIANAPOLIS — A chemical that thickens antifreeze has turned up again in a Chinese-made toothpaste, this time under a brand that serves luxury hotels around the world. [continued]
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070813/NEWS07/70813061/0/ENT04

Owner of Chinese Toy Factory Commits Suicide

SHANGHAI, Aug. 13 — The head of a Chinese company that was behind the recall this month of about a million Mattel toys committed suicide over the weekend, China’s state-controlled news media reported Monday. [continued]
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/14/business/worldbusiness/14toy.html?ref=business

[Ivan Seeking]

They just keep coming.

WASHINGTON - Toy-making giant Mattel Inc. issued recalls Tuesday for about 9 million Chinese-made toys that contain magnets that can be swallowed by children or could have lead paint. [continued]
http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2007/08/14/ap4017912.html

[Moonbear]

If the Chinese want free access to our markets, they should have to be subject to testing at the source, and they should be the ones who have to pay for the testing - to be done by certified labs using methods and equipment approved by the FDA, Underwriter's Laboratory, and others who certify US-made products as safe.

Perhaps they need to start outsourcing their testing to the U.S. :biggrin: Let's see how competitive they really are when they aren't allowed to cheat and cut corners on safety. I agree that just like U.S. companies, they should have to bear the burden of cost of product QC testing and documentation, and be subject to inspection.

[Evo]

Perhaps they need to start outsourcing their testing to the U.S. :biggrin: Let's see how competitive they really are when they aren't allowed to cheat and cut corners on safety. I agree that just like U.S. companies, they should have to bear the burden of cost of product QC testing and documentation, and be subject to inspection.The President of the toy company commited suicide the other day. It turns out the paint in question was supplied by a company owned by his best friend.

[JasonRox]

Evo linked how the Chinese govt were introducing new safety laws. At least people have stopped with the China bashing, to be frank it sounded like a load of women running around panicking, least that's the impression I got: no offence :tongue2::biggrin:.

Expecting a developing nation to have the same standards as a Western one, in what for it is new markets is entirely naive, give it time.

Oh and you can rebuke China for their output but they're just larger than yours were when you were developing because they have a higher population, no one told you to stop polluting in the industrial revolution of the 19th century did they? I think that's Kyoto mentality, it would be hypocritical to expect developing nations to leap frog the evolution towards development and be clean from the get go.In fact to expect a country to suddenly develop cleanly and safely over night is totally unrealistic. You might want to take a look at your own governmental policies on the environment over the last six years before you start throwing stones around as well.

I totally agree! But then again, in America ignorance is bliss.

Also, be aware that some products from the US get recalled too. China just turned down lots of vegetables because it had excessive Selenium in it.

Obviously everyone hates China because they're taking away there hard earned jobs when we "deserve" everything.

As far as I see it, I see nothing that is stopping China from becoming the next economic super power.

[JasonRox]

The President of the toy company commited suicide the other day. It turns out the paint in question was supplied by a company owned by his best friend.

See corrupted things happen like that here too. But the difference is that you can't get away with it in China, which is why he shot himself.

The US has a corrupted government that's been getting away with it for years!

[JasonRox]

PS. My Chinese information comes from ACTUAL Chinese friends of which some are in China right now! Beware of what the media shows!

[turbo-1]

Perhaps they need to start outsourcing their testing to the U.S. :biggrin: Let's see how competitive they really are when they aren't allowed to cheat and cut corners on safety. I agree that just like U.S. companies, they should have to bear the burden of cost of product QC testing and documentation, and be subject to inspection.I thought that this was probably the most reasonable and fair approach, but judging from the silence from DC, apparently our elected representatives are willing to put up with the status quo (US taxpayers pay inspectors to try to screen and interdict poison/unsafe products from cheaters).

When my cousin and his family moved to Australia years ago, they had to check their two golden retrievers into a quarantine facility and pay for months of boarding, testing and observation before the dogs were allowed into the country. He and his wife and daughter had to be separated from those sweet dogs for months and they bore the cost of the quarantine to keep Australia safe from disease. The Chinese exporters should be held to that standard - the products should be quarantined in China until they are properly safety-tested and certified safe by US standards, and the Chinese companies should pay the cost of the storage, testing and certification.

Like you, I wonder just how competitive the Chinese would be if they were forced to adhere to the same quality/safety standards as US manufacturers. I have a feeling that a lot of their advantage would disappear, and boil down to differences in labor costs, employee benefits (ha!), taxes, and shipping.

[Ivan Seeking]

As far as I see it, I see nothing that is stopping China from becoming the next economic super power.

They are becoming the next economic superpower, but they will have to learn about things like quality control, emissions standards, effluent clean-up, employee rights, and all of those nasty little laws that make it more difficult to manufacture in the U.S. And in fact China is afraid because this problem truly threatens their climb to power. That is why people are committing suicide and being executed. But, one must ask, why hasn't the Chinese government [excuse me, a Chinese company] EVER issued a voluntary recall throughout all of this; starting with the poison pet food? Why do we have to inspect each product in order to find any problem? The fact is that they have never had to play by any rules so they have a lot to learn. Not to mention that they are stealing more US technology and copyright protected material than we can even track. This too must stop. China has to learn how to stand on its own without constantly cheating.

If it wasn't for our own government selling us out for the sake of big business, China would have been in trouble long ago.

As Alvin Toffler pointed out, the first rule of predicting trends is that no trend remains a constant. China has been skyrocketing to success, so that is bound to change as they begin to pay the price for success.

Did you see that the Olympic committee is worried about holding events in Beijing? The pollution is so bad that it may make the extended competitions difficult and dangerous. This, as compared to the Los Angeles Olympics in 1984 [I was there], where the skies were crystal clear and blue. Although this was unusually good for LA, even the worst day in LA is better than the best day in Beijing.

Oh yes, and the long time favorite of government subsidized dumping designed to destroy the US competition has to stop as well. Again, given a level playing field, China will find the world very different from the one it knows.

[edward]

Hers is a link to Mattel corporate video, and their promise to do better by doing the inspections themselves. Uhh actually they will probably hire some Chinese guy.

http://www.mattel.com/safety/us/

[Evo]

Hers is a link to Mattel corporate video, and their promise to do better by doing the inspections themselves. Uhh actually they will probably hire some Chinese guy.

http://www.mattel.com/safety/us/Watch for the price of toys to skyrocket.

With all of the added expense, will it still be cheaper to continue manufacturing in China? Is manufacturing in the US so outrageously overpriced?

Sadly, what it all boils down to is what has been driven into every American over the last 40 years, insist on lower prices. Business has responded to Americans buying cheaper products made abroad even if it means poorer quality. Maybe it's time to re-educate ourselves on why paying more for quality and safety makes sense.

[JasonRox]

They are becoming the next economic superpower, but they will have to learn about things like quality control, emissions standards, effluent clean-up, employee rights, and all of those nasty little laws that make it more difficult to manufacture in the U.S. And in fact China is afraid because this problem truly threatens their climb to power. That is why people are committing suicide and being executed. But, one must ask, why hasn't the Chinese government [excuse me, a Chinese company] EVER issued a voluntary recall throughout all of this; starting with the poison pet food? Why do we have to inspect each product in order to find any problem? The fact is that they have never had to play by any rules so they have a lot to learn. Not to mention that they are stealing more US technology and copyright protected material than we can even track. This too must stop. China has to learn how to stand on its own without constantly cheating.

If it wasn't for our own government selling us out for the sake of big business, China would have been in trouble long ago.

As Alvin Toffler pointed out, the first rule of predicting trends is that no trend remains a constant. China has been skyrocketing to success, so that is bound to change as they begin to pay the price for success.

Did you see that the Olympic committee is worried about holding events in Beijing? The pollution is so bad that it may make the extended competitions difficult and dangerous. This, as compared to the Los Angeles Olympics in 1984 [I was there], where the skies were crystal clear and blue. Although this was unusually good for LA, even the worst day in LA is better than the best day in Beijing.

Oh yes, and the long time favorite of government subsidized dumping designed to destroy the US competition has to stop as well. Again, given a level playing field, China will find the world very different from the one it knows.

The US sold out on Britain, so I don't know what you're talking about. Countries do this all the time.

[Ivan Seeking]

NEWARK, New Jersey (AP) -- Toys "R" Us Inc. on Friday said it was removing all vinyl baby bibs from its Toys "R" Us and Babies "R" Us stores as a precaution after two bibs made in China for one supplier showed lead levels that exceeded Toys "R" Us standards[continued]
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/08/17/tainted.bibs.ap/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

[turbo-1]

I am awaiting the arrival of a lead-test kit. $35 including shipping for 24 tests. We have decorative containers and dishes bought over the years that may in fact be unsafe to use for food, and we want to know for sure.

[Ivan Seeking]

I was thinking that it might be interesting to start randomly checking Chinese made products for lead.

I saw a report the other night that claims that 80% of Chinese citizens don't trust the safety of food in China.

Tsu works with a guy who has lived in Taiwan for years and is soon returning. He just discovered that he has lead poisoning.

[Ivan Seeking]

Wal-Mart: Melamine Found in Dog Treats

LITTLE ROCK, Ark. - Tests of two Chinese brands of dog treats sold at Wal-Mart stores found traces of melamine, a chemical agent that led to another massive pet food recall in March, a spokeswoman said Tuesday. [continued]
http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2007/08/21/ap4042092.html

HONG KONG, China (Reuters) -- A U.S.-based workers' rights group said it found "brutal conditions" and labor violations at eight Chinese plants that make toys for big multinationals, and called on the companies to take steps for better standards.

China Labor Watch said in a report issued on Tuesday after several months of investigation that the manufacturers -- which served a handful of global players, including Walt Disney, Bandai and Hasbro -- paid "little heed to the most basic standards of the country."

"Wages are low, benefits are nonexistent, work environments are dangerous and living conditions are humiliating," it said.[continued]
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/asiapcf/08/21/china.toys.reut/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

[edward]

This originally aired on PBS in May.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7722357401716915348

[Ivan Seeking]

More batches of Chinese-made toys are being recalled because of excessive lead content.

The recalled items include SpongeBob SquarePants journals and address books as well as Thomas and Friends and Curious George spinning tops and toy pails.[continued]
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2007/08/toy_recalls.html


BEIJING (Reuters) - A Beijing factory sold up to 100,000 pairs of disposable chopsticks a day without any form of disinfection, a newspaper said on Wednesday, the latest in a string of food and product safety scares.[continued]
http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSPEK23796420070822?src=082207_1024_DOUBLEFEATUR E_dean_targets_gulf

[edward]

Why do the Chinese use lead based paint? It is cheaper.

http://www.rsc.org/chemistryworld/News/2007/August/21080701.asp

[turbo-1]

It is inconceivable that outrgovernment expects the US taxpayers to pay for inspection, interdiction and testing of products that show up in our ports. The exporters in foreign countries should have to pay for storage, testing, and certification of their products to gain access to our markets. This crap is gutting US industries and impoverishing our workforce. It wouldn't be so bad if we had a social net that allowed US workers to live on a few dollars a day, but we don't.

[turbo-1]

Why do the Chinese use lead based paint? It is cheaper.

http://www.rsc.org/chemistryworld/News/2007/August/21080701.aspLead is very cheap, compared to titanium dioxide. Titanium dioxide provides brilliance and opacity in paints and paper-coatings, but it is costly. It is very stable and is safe for human consumption, but the Chinese can make fortunes (with their volumes) substituting lead compounds for titanium dioxide in coatings and paints. The heads of these companies want to cash in as quickly as possible - what do they care if your kid ends up with developmental problems or retardation?

[Far Star]

Many cosmetics and sunscreens contain TiO2. Lead is cheaper than titanium dioxide. Many products and/or ingredients come from countries not known for quality control. Some manufactures don't appear to test their end product for various contaminants.

The market for mineral makeup alone is huge.

Maybe we should be testing more than paint?

[turbo-1]

My lead test-kit came in the mail today. This weekend, my with and I will take time to screen a bunch of ceramic, porcelain, etc products to make sure that it is safe to use with food. If they're not, we'll smash them and throw them in the trash. No sense in letting someone else find a "usable" serving platter, and poison themselves or their family members and friends. We have some very colorful decorative serving platters/trays that my wife bought years ago, and the recent problems with Chinese products have made us suspicious of other cost-cutting adulterations from back then, too.

[edward]

Many cosmetics and sunscreens contain TiO2. Lead is cheaper than titanium dioxide. Many products and/or ingredients come from countries not known for quality control. Some manufactures don't appear to test their end product for various contaminants.

The market for mineral makeup alone is huge.

Maybe we should be testing more than paint?

A lot of Colgate's products come from China including all of their toothpaste. gees will it ever end.

Aqua Star brand fish and seafood products are advertised as being healthy ect. They are now in most major grocery chains. Yet their products are processed in China and god only knows what that fish has been exposed to because no one is looking.

Their web site makes them look like the golden boys of good nutrition.

http://www.aquastar.com/consumer/fish_buyers_gd.htm

[jmnew51]

And just think if the lead does make our children retarded, then they will grow up and buy even more stuff from China.

Smart, ain't they.

Jim

[Far Star]

Speaking of seafood- if you're looking for canned tuna in water be sure to check the ingredients. Some brands contain vegetable protein in addition to water and salt. Maybe not a big deal to most people but it's annoying enough to wonder what's in the fish.

[turbo-1]

Speaking of seafood- if you're looking for canned tuna in water be sure to check the ingredients. Some brands contain vegetable protein in addition to water and salt. Maybe not a big deal to most people but it's annoying enough to wonder what's in the fish.That vegetable protein is processed to produce glutamates, which can help mask the taste of spoilage and the metallic tasted that can result from packing salted foods in metal cans. US regulations do not require that glutamates be identified unless the additive stream is at least 97% glutamate. If your food contains "natural flavors", "autolized yeast", "modified food starch" or any of over 50 other euphemistic names for this crap, you are eating MSG. It is difficult to find ANY processed food that has not been adulterated with this stuff. Here's a partial list.

http://www.msgmyth.com/hidename.htm

[Far Star]

Turbo-1, thanks for the link. Helpful to know what to look for.

It will be interesting to know how your lead tests turn out.

[edward]

Aqua Star is a frozen fish and seafood wholesaler. They have been coming on strong in the frozen fish and seafood market. They now rank third largest in the USA.

I looked at several of their products at a major grocery chain store the other day. Both had a small label on the back of the packages that stated...................................A Product of the republic of China.

http://www.aquastar.com/retail/food_retailers.htm

The water in the fish farms in China is not exactly what one would call healthy.

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=56004

Mattel just announced another toy recall

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070904/NEWS07/70904081/-1
/BUSINESS08

http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/prnewswire/LATU17804092007-1.htm


Now for the good news, I saved money by switching my insurance to Geico..........not

[kaisxuans]

all this talk about thing is like whao! well i want to say that the best thing to do is buy from your own country! haha
(visit my blog!)

[Ivan Seeking]

all this talk about thing is like whao! well i want to say that the best thing to do is buy from your own country! haha
(visit my blog!)

It is far too easy for corporations to move to other countries where there are little to no labor or environmental laws, and then import inferior products into the US. As a result, our jobs, our safety, and our choices are disappearing.

Today's dangerous Chinese product in the news:
Importer to recall Chinese-made car fuses
Auto parts company alerted regulators to fuses that don't blow when they should and could cause fires. [continued]
http://money.cnn.com/2007/09/05/autos/fuse_recall/?postversion=2007090516

[edward]

This just reminded me that many aftermarket automotive parts are also made in China, although I still think that Mexico is in the lead here. Most non original equipment appliance parts are also made in Mexico, but China will probably soon dominate this market as they have with plumbing parts.

[Mallignamius]

WASHINGTON - The government announced an 11th-hour recall Wednesday to warn consumers that fake Halloween teeth sold by the tens of thousands since last year contain excessive amounts of lead.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071031/ap_on_re_us/halloween_recall

I'm getting the impression that China is a heavy country. Maybe they're just trying to lighten their load.

[animalcroc]

One of the "Made in China" items I hate the most are the ultra cheap plastic trinkets and doo-dads that we accumulate at birthday parties for our kids. These useless "toys" that cost $1 for a dozen are filling the "goodie bags" that are given to the guests as they leave. Whatever they are (little ball-in-the-maze puzzles, bendy straws,whistles, pencils pencils goddam pencils) they never work, and become landfill waste without ever being a true product.

lol I'm surprised someone would have thought of those things. These things are thrown away the next day; what a waste.

[animalcroc]

You clearly have no understanding of what outsourcing has done the US manufacturing sector - it has been decimated. And the only reason this happened is unfair competition that results in polluted air and water, and poisoned products. The great lie about globalization is the difference between what's good for corporations, and what's in the public interest.



Oh please, I doubt that any power plant or factory in China would even be allowed to operate here. There is no comparison.

There's no such thing as "unfair competition" when it comes to capitalism which by the way is what greedy homo sapiens want.

[Ivan Seeking]

There's no such thing as "unfair competition" when it comes to capitalism which by the way is what greedy homo sapiens want.

Sure there is, because we don't have pure capitalism. The reason is that we know it doesn't work.

[animalcroc]

It was hard to see this one coming eh? :rolleyes:


http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=a7x6i6Rlu9pY&refer=news

So, our government sells us out for decades, and now the plan is to force us to accept potentially dangerous products, or whatever China says, because they hold the debt card. Of course the world can't afford to have the US economy collapse, so unless the Chinese are planning to dump the new Toyotas go back to rickshaws...

Our trade deficit is why the foreign currencies are overtaking the dollar. The Euro already past up the dollar by an unprecedented margin.

[animalcroc]

Sure there is, because we don't have pure capitalism. The reason is that we know it doesn't work.

By "we" you refer to the U.S. and a limited amount of countries, even so of which only have their "non-pure" capitalism on paper. In practice it's different. The goal of business is to profit of others, i.e. get an advantage over them. Businesses owners try to make more money as possible and it comes at someone's expense. Upper-level corporate management's salaries have increased I believe 15-fold (at least seven for sure) over the past fifty years while lowest level workers salaries have risen hardly in comparison. Who reaped in the company profits, the fat cats or the lower levels? That's American business.
And if a bum off the street had the opportunity to be a fat cat, he would.

[Ivan Seeking]

R&D is suppose to be our saviour, but you know, I help to develop new products for a living. This is my bread and butter. The outsourcing has gotten so bad that I find that companies are now shying away from good opportunities; for example, for custom products [like 400 custom motors a month at $500+ a pop plus development fees] because they no longer believe that they will get the long term business. They know that we can easily outsource production to China and steal their product. And to them, it's not worth the investment of resources if they don't get the long term business. This is a problem that I have been fighting for the last month on my current project.

[Ivan Seeking]

By "we" you refer to the U.S. and a limited amount of countries, even so of which only have their "non-pure" capitalism on paper. In practice it's different. The goal of business is to profit of others, i.e. get an advantage over them. Businesses owners try to make more money as possible and it comes at someone's expense. Upper-level corporate management's salaries have increased I believe 15-fold (at least seven for sure) over the past fifty years while lowest level workers salaries have risen hardly in comparison. Who reaped in the company profits, the fat cats or the lower levels? That's American business.
And if a bum off the street had the opportunity to be a fat cat, he would.

But we do have laws - environmental laws, child labor laws, inspection requirements, etc. For example, in a meat processing plant, they can't even operate without a USDA inspector on-site.

[animalcroc]

R&D is suppose to be our saviour, but you know, I help to develop new products for a living. This is my bread and butter. The outsourcing has gotten so bad that I find that companies are now shying away from good opportunities; for example, for custom products [like 400 custom motors a month at $500+ a pop plus development fees] because they no longer believe that they will get the long term business. They know that we can easily outsource production to China and steal their product. And to them, it's not worth the investment of resources if they don't get the long term business. This is a problem that I have been fighting for the last month on my current project.

The U.S. is in an economic decline which I think will stay until some equilibrium point is reached.

[Ivan Seeking]

We will never reach a balance if we don't have fair competition; at least not until the US is like a third-world nation.

[animalcroc]

We will never reach a balance if we don't have fair competition; at least not until the US is like a third-world nation.

My point. The dominance of corporatism has accelerated under the Bush (or rather Cheney) regime and those guys see nothing but dollar bills (for them).

[Ivan Seeking]

HONG KONG, Wednesday, Nov. 7 — A bead toy that just won an Australian Toy of the Year award was recalled by its manufacturer on Tuesday after media reports that a chemical in it turns into a powerful date-rape drug, GHB, when eaten.[continued]
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/07/business/07toy.html?ref=business

[Ivan Seeking]

The story above was just updated:

TORONTO—Following yesterday’s announcement that original Aqua Dots manufacturer Moose Enterprises was recalling its line in Australia, Spin Master is requesting retailers in North America remove Aqua Dots products from their shelves. [continued]
http://www.playthings.com/article/CA6498542.html?desc=topstory

[Ivan Seeking]

Lead Paint Risk Causes Curious George Plush Dolls Recall
http://www.product-reviews.net/2007/11/09/lead-paint-risk-causes-curious-george-plush-dolls-recall/

[turbo-1]

The Chinese lead-contaminated toy scare has prompted new rules from the Consumer Product Safety Commission that require testing and certification that may be too expensive for little workshops. That could actually reduce the number of safe toys on the market, even toys made of raw wood or those with food-safe oil finishes and dyes. Good intentions are not sufficient for good rule-making - it also requires planning and the examination of potential negative consequences.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081224/ap_on_re_us/tainted_toys;_ylt=AtseN_eRNcgnij46SHJZzKCs0NUE

[Ivan Seeking]

The Chinese lead-contaminated toy scare has prompted new rules from the Consumer Product Safety Commission that require testing and certification that may be too expensive for little workshops. That could actually reduce the number of safe toys on the market, even toys made of raw wood or those with food-safe oil finishes and dyes. Good intentions are not sufficient for good rule-making - it also requires planning and the examination of potential negative consequences.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081224/ap_on_re_us/tainted_toys;_ylt=AtseN_eRNcgnij46SHJZzKCs0NUE

Given the first paragraph of the article, your post is just a bit confusing. It sounds like this issue is being addressed.

SAN FRANCISCO – The makers of handcrafted toys received some holiday hope Wednesday with support from a federal agency for proposed exemptions from strict lead-testing regulations they feared could put them out of business.

Last year's discovery of lead paint in mass-market toys prompted the government to pass new safety rules requiring testing and labeling that mom-and-pop workshops and retailers said they could not afford.

As a February deadline for complying with the law loomed, toy makers who use benign materials such as unfinished wood, organic cotton and beeswax sought exemptions from the rules they said could apply to them...

[turbo-1]

The point is that the regulation was imposed with little thought about the impact on small domestic manufacturers. It would be wonderful if exceptions can be made that would exempt them, but I have doubts that the geniuses in the CSPC will make the exceptions easy enough to comply with that mom-and-pop operations will be able to do so without excessive expense. We are WAY over-regulated in some areas, and WAY under-regulated in others (think mining, logging, banking, etc). There are toy-makers here in Maine that consist of ONE person in a home workshop - in fact, a lady was featured last night on the news that started making wooden toys, quit her job as an accountant, and is now producing wooden cars, trucks, boats, etc full-time.

[Ouabache]

As I was putting up holiday lights (made in China), I read on the box there is residual lead on the surface of the wiring. Be sure to wash your hands well, before eating food. Here is an article (http://www.cnn.com/2007/HEALTH/12/10/christmas.lights/index.html) that relates to this. So they're giving fair warning, if you take time to read the fine print.

[Ivan Seeking]

As I was putting up holiday lights (made in China), I read on the box there is residual lead on the surface of the wiring. Be sure to wash your hands well, before eating food. Here is an article (http://www.cnn.com/2007/HEALTH/12/10/christmas.lights/index.html) that relates to this. So they're giving fair warning, if you take time to read the fine print.

If only that warning had been included in the lead-painted lunchboxes for children.

[JulieEastern]

Yes. Too sad, the Chinese think only of profit and totally disregard the safety of their customers. I wonder if China is a member of ISO or international organization for standardization? Is there anything like ISO 9001 2008 Compliance (http://www.iso9001compliance.com) china product? If there is, is it really a valid claim that the product is of good quality?

[Ivan Seeking]

From what I have read and seen, the problem in China is more a lack of control rather than some kind of national conspiracy. China is a big place. And "death" was the sentence for at least one of the people involved in the melamine fiasco.

[JulieEastern]

From what I have read and seen, the problem in China is more a lack of control rather than some kind of national conspiracy. China is a big place. And "death" was the sentence for at least one of the people involved in the melamine fiasco.

Lack of control and lack of the desire to control. China is a communist country, they can control it effectively if they really desire to.