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alistair
May3-04, 04:52 AM
<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','toolbar=no, location=no,scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no ,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usenet ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>\nIf I placed a neutrino at a certain distance from a large mass it\nwould have a certain weight at a certain time.The same neutrino at the\nsame distance at a later time might have a heavier weight.We would\nsay,given current knowledge, that the neutrino mass had oscillated.\nBut what if the gravitational field of the large mass had changed.What\nif it was the gravitational field that had oscillated? Would we notice\nthe difference for heavy particles like protons and neutrons.What I am\nsaying is this:are the measured masses of protons and neutrons in a\ngravitational field, we presume is static over time,just average\nmasses in an oscillating gravitational field?\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form">&nbsp;&nbsp;View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky>If I placed a neutrino at a certain distance from a large mass it
would have a certain weight at a certain time.The same neutrino at the
same distance at a later time might have a heavier weight.We would
say,given current knowledge, that the neutrino mass had oscillated.
But what if the gravitational field of the large mass had changed.What
if it was the gravitational field that had oscillated? Would we notice
the difference for heavy particles like protons and neutrons.What I am
saying is this:are the measured masses of protons and neutrons in a
gravitational field, we presume is static over time,just average
masses in an oscillating gravitational field?

Jon Bell
May3-04, 08:22 AM
<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','toolbar=no, location=no,scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no ,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usenet ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>In article &lt;861c1b21.0405010911.308e9fc2@posting.google.com&gt;, \nalistair &lt;alistair@goforit64.fsnet.co.uk&gt; wrote:\n&gt;\n&gt;If I placed a neutrino at a certain distance from a large mass it\n&gt;would have a certain weight at a certain time.The same neutrino at the\n&gt;same distance at a later time might have a heavier weight.We would\n&gt;say,given current knowledge, that the neutrino mass had oscillated.\n\nNo. The mass of a particular neutrino does not oscillate. What\noscillates are the probabilities that the neutrino will interact as an\nelectron-, muon- or tau- neutrino.\n\nMore precisely, when you produce a neutrino of a particular flavor\n(electron, muon, or tau), it can have one of three masses, with\nprobabilities that depend on which flavor you started with. Those\nprobabilities remain constant so long as you don\'t make measurements that\ncan determine which of the three masses the neutrino has.\n\n--\nJon Bell &lt;jtbellm4h@presby.edu&gt; Presbyterian College\nDept. of Physics and Computer Science Clinton, South Carolina USA\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form">&nbsp;&nbsp;View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky>In article <861c1b21.0405010911.308e9fc2@posting.google.com>,
alistair <alistair@goforit64.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>
>If I placed a neutrino at a certain distance from a large mass it
>would have a certain weight at a certain time.The same neutrino at the
>same distance at a later time might have a heavier weight.We would
>say,given current knowledge, that the neutrino mass had oscillated.

No. The mass of a particular neutrino does not oscillate. What
oscillates are the probabilities that the neutrino will interact as an
electron-, muon- or \tau- neutrino.

More precisely, when you produce a neutrino of a particular flavor
(electron, muon, or \tau), it can have one of three masses, with
probabilities that depend on which flavor you started with. Those
probabilities remain constant so long as you don't make measurements that
can determine which of the three masses the neutrino has.

--
Jon Bell <jtbellm4h@presby.edu> Presbyterian College
Dept. of Physics and Computer Science Clinton, South Carolina USA

alistair
May4-04, 03:06 PM
<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','toolbar=no, location=no,scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no ,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usenet ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>..CORRECTION TO LAST POST ON NEUTRINOS\n"NOTHING IS KNOWN FOR SURE ABOUT NEUTRINO MASS"\n\nThe mass of a particular neutrino does not oscillate. What\n&gt; oscillates are the probabilities that the neutrino will interact as an\n&gt; electron-, muon- or tau- neutrino\n\n\nNothing is known for sure about neutrino mass .All that is known is\nthat if one neutrino flavour has mass the others probably do too.\n\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form">&nbsp;&nbsp;View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky>..CORRECTION TO LAST POST ON NEUTRINOS
"NOTHING IS KNOWN FOR SURE ABOUT NEUTRINO MASS"

The mass of a particular neutrino does not oscillate. What
> oscillates are the probabilities that the neutrino will interact as an
> electron-, muon- or \tau- neutrino


Nothing is known for sure about neutrino mass .All that is known is
that if one neutrino flavour has mass the others probably do too.

Igor
May6-04, 12:20 PM
<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','toolbar=no, location=no,scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no ,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usenet ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>alistair@goforit64.fsnet.co.uk (alistair) wrote in message news:&lt;861c1b21.0405040205.7a56f890@posting.google. com&gt;...\n&gt; .CORRECTION TO LAST POST ON NEUTRINOS\n&gt; "NOTHING IS KNOWN FOR SURE ABOUT NEUTRINO MASS"\n&gt;\n&gt; The mass of a particular neutrino does not oscillate. What\n&gt; &gt; oscillates are the probabilities that the neutrino will interact as an\n&gt; &gt; electron-, muon- or tau- neutrino\n&gt;\n&gt;\n&gt; Nothing is known for sure about neutrino mass .All that is known is\n&gt; that if one neutrino flavour has mass the others probably do too.\n\nMore is known about neutrino mass than you realize. We do know that\nin order to oscillate between different flavours, a neutrino needs to\nhave non-zero mass. Since there is some very good evidence that\nneutrino oscillation actually occurs, we can infer that they do indeed\npossess mass.\n\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form">&nbsp;&nbsp;View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky>alistair@goforit64.fsnet.co.uk (alistair) wrote in message news:<861c1b21.0405040205.7a56f890@posting.google.com>...
> .CORRECTION TO LAST POST ON NEUTRINOS
> "NOTHING IS KNOWN FOR SURE ABOUT NEUTRINO MASS"
>
> The mass of a particular neutrino does not oscillate. What
> > oscillates are the probabilities that the neutrino will interact as an
> > electron-, muon- or \tau- neutrino
>
>
> Nothing is known for sure about neutrino mass .All that is known is
> that if one neutrino flavour has mass the others probably do too.

More is known about neutrino mass than you realize. We do know that
in order to oscillate between different flavours, a neutrino needs to
have non-zero mass. Since there is some very good evidence that
neutrino oscillation actually occurs, we can infer that they do indeed
possess mass.

Uncle Al
May7-04, 06:39 PM
<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','toolbar=no, location=no,scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no ,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usenet ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>Igor wrote:\n&gt;\n&gt; alistair@goforit64.fsnet.co.uk (alistair) wrote in message news:&lt;861c1b21.0405040205.7a56f890@posting.google. com&gt;...\n&gt; &gt; .CORRECTION TO LAST POST ON NEUTRINOS\n&gt; &gt; "NOTHING IS KNOWN FOR SURE ABOUT NEUTRINO MASS"\n&gt; &gt;\n&gt; &gt; The mass of a particular neutrino does not oscillate. What\n&gt; &gt; &gt; oscillates are the probabilities that the neutrino will interact as an\n&gt; &gt; &gt; electron-, muon- or tau- neutrino\n&gt; &gt;\n&gt; &gt;\n&gt; &gt; Nothing is known for sure about neutrino mass .All that is known is\n&gt; &gt; that if one neutrino flavour has mass the others probably do too.\n&gt;\n&gt; More is known about neutrino mass than you realize. We do know that\n&gt; in order to oscillate between different flavours, a neutrino needs to\n&gt; have non-zero mass. Since there is some very good evidence that\n&gt; neutrino oscillation actually occurs, we can infer that they do indeed\n&gt; possess mass.\n\nFrom the 2004 April APS meeting: Electron neutrino mass is pegged\nbetween 0.23-0.4 eV. You can have free-space flavor oscillations and\nflavor oscillations while traversing matter. Different cases.\n\n--\nUncle Al\nhttp://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz.pdf\nhttp://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/eotvos.htm\n(Do something naughty to physics)\n\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form">&nbsp;&nbsp;View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky>Igor wrote:
>
> alistair@goforit64.fsnet.co.uk (alistair) wrote in message news:<861c1b21.0405040205.7a56f890@posting.google.com>...
> > .CORRECTION TO LAST POST ON NEUTRINOS
> > "NOTHING IS KNOWN FOR SURE ABOUT NEUTRINO MASS"
> >
> > The mass of a particular neutrino does not oscillate. What
> > > oscillates are the probabilities that the neutrino will interact as an
> > > electron-, muon- or \tau- neutrino
> >
> >
> > Nothing is known for sure about neutrino mass .All that is known is
> > that if one neutrino flavour has mass the others probably do too.
>
> More is known about neutrino mass than you realize. We do know that
> in order to oscillate between different flavours, a neutrino needs to
> have non-zero mass. Since there is some very good evidence that
> neutrino oscillation actually occurs, we can infer that they do indeed
> possess mass.

From the 2004 April APS meeting: Electron neutrino mass is pegged
between .23-0.4 eV. You can have free-space flavor oscillations and
flavor oscillations while traversing matter. Different cases.

--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz.pdf
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/eotvos.htm
(Do something naughty to physics)