Does anyone else feel this way?

[Fliption]

I'm not sure if this is the best place to put this thread and I hope the people who I am directing this question to come to this forum and see it. I hate to post such a down beat thread in here since many of you are having such fun here[:)] but here goes....

I'm wondering if anyone else feels like certain people posting in the philosophy forum are being a bit disruptive and are lacking the proper spirit of discussion? The people I'm talking about are Logical Atheist and Alexander. It seems to me that neither of them understand what philosophy is and spend all of their time criticizing it instead of exercising it. In my view they have prevented anyone else from having a good discussion because they are constantly posting and railroading the discussions by insulting anyone who sees meaning in it. If they don't like philosophy, then why are they in the philosphy forum insulting everyone else? What purpose does this serve? Logical Atheist is averaging 40 posts a day! And every single bit of it is insulting and arrogant railroading of the discussions that are taking place. He also has put many of us on block because in his teenage mind he thinks this is some sort of retaliation. LOL It is quite comical but it is very disruptive.

I really dislike sending notes to the mentors unless I absolutely have to so I was wondering if others that participate there feel the same way? Am I off base?

[Zero]

I think this WOULD be better dealt with in a PM...seeing as how it is directed at specific people...

[LogicalAtheist]

So far 14 people looked and didn't comment.

It's the age old trouble. Those who won't believe what you believe threaten you, and you have to search for those who support you.

Just learn that you're here to learn.

If you're not willing to have people debate your posts because you're too attached to them, this isn't the right place for you.

I've had my stuff attacked from every angle. It's all fine by me; I've learned alot since I came here just less than 3 weeks ago.

If people are questioning your posts (like everyone is) then perhaps you need to focus on the learning, and stop fighting it.

But this thread is downright childish.

[LogicalAtheist]

I see now ZERO commenting that this is also inappropriate. Thanks zero, although we had a disagreement before, I'm cool with you now.

I would also add because of Zero's post, that my above post is my answer. So don't PM me as that's all you're going to hear.

[Fliption]

Originally posted by LogicalAtheist
I see now ZERO commenting that this is also inappropriate. Thanks zero, although we had a disagreement before, I'm cool with you now.

I would also add because of Zero's post, that my above post is my answer. So don't PM me as that's all you're going to hear.

Don't worry. I won't be PM'ing you. Thats a good attempt at propaganda but I am not the one who has is blocking the views of others. And I am not the only one you have announced that you will block. So who is holding onto their views so passionately that they won't even read the responses? I contend that you have learned nothing since you've been here. All I have seen you do is preach.

Zero, I agree with you on the PM but you obviously haven't seen this guy in action. A PM would be useless. He refuses to listen to anyone elses opinion.

[LogicalAtheist]

I don't listen to opinions, I listen to claims.

And I've learned alot here, and I listen to plenty of people.

You just happen to NOT be one of them.

Get over it!

[Nicool003]

seems most people happen to be ones you dont listen to. Flipton I got blocked to...big whoop

[drag]

Greetings !

Well, first I can't say I disagree with you Flipton,
but I'm not certain this thread is such a good idea.
Second, like LA said he's only been here for 3 weeks,
I think we can cut'im some slack, for now, don't you ?
Besides, one of the unussual aspects of logical
atheists as distinguished from other beliefs is that
they want to have the nost sensible and adequate to
any situation philosphy and perspective and they
don't want to be belivers. As such, it may be easier
to eventually show him the belief ellements in these.
(Though, it's been somewhat frustrating so far because
he seems to ignore/stop discussions when he is
clearly shown the contradictions in his views or
challenged to fully ellaborate them.)

Live long and prosper.

[Fliption]

Originally posted by Nicool003
seems most people happen to be ones you dont listen to. Flipton I got blocked to...big whoop

LOL. I didn't know about you Nicool003. My god, how many people has he blocked?

[Fliption]

Originally posted by drag
Greetings !

Well, first I can't say I disagree with you Flipton,
but I'm not certain this thread is such a good idea.
Second, like LA said he's only been here for 3 weeks,
I think we can cut'im some slack, for now, don't you ?
Besides, one of the unussual aspects of logical
atheists as distinguished from other beliefs is that
they want to have the nost sensible and adequate to
any situation philosphy and perspective and they
don't want to be belivers. As such, it may be easier
to eventually show him the belief ellements in these.
(Though, it's been somewhat frustrating so far because
he seems to ignore/stop discussions when he is
clearly shown the contradictions in his views or
challenged to fully ellaborate them.)

Live long and prosper.

I appreciate your response Drag. I'm all for giving people a chance but I don't think anything any of us do will change this one. This is just an attitude that you hope people grow out of when they mature a bit. And that can take years. I just find it disruptive and ultimately am hoping that this thread can accomplish something to improve that.

[Kerrie]

fliption, your concern is well understood...this is the feedback forum, but specific names should not be used...my suggestion would be to PM Greg, and this goes for anyone who feels this same way...typically when a member becomes disruptive to the point where they are needing to be "babysat", then may be eligible to earn a surprise status in the forums...[;)]

[Fliption]

Originally posted by Kerrie
fliption, your concern is well understood...this is the feedback forum, but specific names should not be used...my suggestion would be to PM Greg, and this goes for anyone who feels this same way...typically when a member becomes disruptive to the point where they are needing to be "babysat", then may be eligible to earn a surprise status in the forums...[;)]

Thanks Kerrie

[Nicool003]

LOL. I didn't know about you Nicool003. My god, how many people has he blocked?


Maybe it is one of the few infinite things (god knows how many forums he has been too)...right next to the energizer bunny and how many licks it takes to get to the center of a tootsy roll pop.

[Nicool003]

I have a rhetorical question for you guys. If Lifegazer could be kicked out (ok the thread says his departure but come on he didn't
"depart" by choice) because he was being disruptive and causing problems...well LA has done the same thing. And Fliption he didnt only block me (gasp) he made a topic against me in other sciences which got locked, thank God.

[Les Sleeth]

Originally posted by Fliption
LOL. I didn't know about you Nicool003. My god, how many people has he blocked?

Hi Fliption . . . yesterday I was so upset with him I was ready to quit PF, my favorite website of all time. Just seeing his name on the screen has been turning my stomach. I will take responsibility, however, for letting myself get so frustrated.

I decided to go to the Physics section just to get away and ask a question I've been thinking about, and there he was again, telling Chroot he needed a better education in physics (too funny!!) and "blocking" him too.

I suppose Kerrie is right that we shouldn't be using people's names, but I also feel PF is spoiled by his presence (at least the way he is behaving now). I admire Drag's call for tolerance, and would agree if I hadn't seen LA being a jerk so consistently over his 400 posts. Virtually nothing he says really makes sense or is well thought out, it's just garbage he spews out off the top of his head. He refuses to research, he actually lies (such as pretending to know about things he doesn't), he refuses to cite evidence other than "everyone knows this," and most of his information is wrong. So what value is he adding to PF?

Personally I can't see any purpose to his efforts here other than to condescend and glorify his ego at everyone's expense.

[Nicool003]

Sleeth I know what you mean but good 'ol BoulderHead got me to stick around...he made me promise [:D] So I'm diong the same with you...just stick around ok? Thanks BH [:D]

[Les Sleeth]

Originally posted by Nicool003
Sleeth I know what you mean but good 'ol BoulderHead got me to stick around...he made me promise [:D] So I'm diong the same with you...just stick around ok? Thanks BH [:D]

I will, thanks too. It helps to know it's not just me, which is what I was thinking yesterday.

[Kerrie]

Originally posted by Kerrie
typically when a member becomes disruptive to the point where they are needing to be "babysat", then may be eligible to earn a surprise status in the forums...[;)] [/B]

[6)] [6)] [6)] [6)] [6)] [6)] [6)] [6)] [6)] [6)] [6)]

now that's what i call "cracked" up!

[Nicool003]

hahaha!

[Mentat]

LOL!!! Kerrie, that's one of the funniest mistakes I've seen on the PFs in a long time.

[Kerrie]

Originally posted by Mentat
LOL!!! Kerrie, that's one of the funniest mistakes I've seen on the PFs in a long time.

it's definitely no mistake...

[Shadow]

Being that (il)Logical Atheist has chosen to block me like so many others I will publicaly post this so keep in mind it was his choice. LA you lied when you said "Shadow see's floating objects" in the Philosophy forum. Did you say that just to make me look bad and hope that it makes you look better or did you mistake me for someone else on another website?

[Les Sleeth]

PF is a happy place again! With only us sweet-natured types here now, PF will return to its normal harmonious, uncontentious ways. [:D]

Thanks Fliption for having the courage to post this thread, and for everyone else who cared enough about PF to want to do something about the brat situation. Also, thanks to the mentors and advisors, and Greg, for continuing to make PF the best forum anywhere, possibly even the whole universe!

[Fliption]

Originally posted by LW Sleeth
PF is a happy place again! With only us sweet-natured types here now, PF will return to its normal harmonious, uncontentious ways. [:D]

Thanks Fliption for having the courage to post this thread, and for everyone else who cared enough about PF to want to do something about the brat situation. Also, thanks to the mentors and advisors, and Greg, for continuing to make PF the best forum anywhere, possibly even the whole universe!

I agree LWS. Many thanks to the Admins.

[Shadow]

Was he banned? It just says he is offline... I hope he was banned though, that is for sure.

[Tom Mattson]

Logical Atheist is no more. I think the last straw was when he reported Integral (a Mentor!) to Greg. LOL

[Nicool003]

Hahaha! Oh no! what did integral do? Prove him wrong?! *GASP*

[Fliption]

Originally posted by Tom
Logical Atheist is no more. I think the last straw was when he reported Integral (a Mentor!) to Greg. LOL

Hey that's funny. BTW, I popped into another forum today and saw that LA had been there. This particular forum has a "report" feature at the bottom of each post so that you can report someone if you want to. On his first day in this forum he was clicking away on that button reporting people. Lol. Me thinks he won't be there long.

[M. Gaspar]

Originally posted by Tom
Logical Atheist is no more. I think the last straw was when he reported Integral (a Mentor!) to Greg. LOL

I was "stalking" one of my "Buddies" ...which took me to this thread ...and when I read the above statement, I was actually BUMMED OUT!

Although LA has been on my "Ignore" list since our first altercation last week -- I have to say I had a grudging affection for him.

He reminds me of "militant egghead" -- a product of his EMOTIONAL AGE -- no doubt. It's really part of our species (and many others) to have a "warrior group" in the ready...from adolescents through early adulthood.

When there is no worthwhile "cause" many of them pick fights in bars. This Forum seemed like LA's answer to a bar-room brawl...which is what I said, and why he reported me.

My impression from the posts I have read by him is that he didn't HAVE a "theory" or something to offer...YET. But, feeling his "vineger" and his probable intelligence, he could only get into the action by shooting others down.

I wanted to tell him to save these threads and read them in 20 years, to see what a brat he USED TO be.

I hope you're WRONG that he is gone because he is such an unhappy person and I'd hate to have an "ousting" add to his bitterness. It would have to hurt ...and leave a scar.

By the way: what's "blocking"?

[Kerrie]

Something our "crackers" should note is that as mentors and the admin, we have been granted super powers and know when the crackers return as another member...my special powers happen to be my X ray vision, aka psychic powers!![6)] [:D]

[enigma]

L.A., if you're reading this, the admin/mentors/advisors on these forums are not as dumb as you'd like to believe we are.

Trying the game of starting up multiple user accounts in the hope that one gets by is an old hat for us.

Your attitude is not welcome here.

[Entropia]

what are the "official" grounds in which LA has been... booted?


and what on earth did he have to complain about integral??

[Integral]

I had the nerve to request, via PM, that he not post "I don't know" type messages in Math and Physics.

Further, I deleted several of this type of post in Physics.

Seems he felt I was abusing my "powers"!

[Zero]

Originally posted by Entropia
what are the "official" grounds in which LA has been... booted?


and what on earth did he have to complain about integral??

As near as I can explain, he was disruptive and in violation of several of the PF guidelines. He had issue with Integral, I guess, because he has problems with this guideline: "Any off-topic posts will be deleted or moved to an approprite forum as per administrator & moderator discretion."

He had a tendency to complain about the way people posted:"All members have the right to thier own ideas, beliefs and faiths . Members have the right to express these on physics forums with equal respect and consideration."

He was rude and insulting, and often questioned teh intelligence of others:"Direct or indirect personal attacks are strictly not permitted. Insults and negative attitudes are not allowed."

And, remember, we all agreed to this when we signed on:"The owners and mentors of Physics Forums reserve the right to remove, edit, move or close any thread for any reason." He had a HUGE issue with that one.

[FZ+]

Let's not gloat too much, shall we?
Mind you, Tom has banned Nathan about 5 times... Where is he nowadays, anyways?

[Zero]

Originally posted by FZ+
Let's not gloat too much, shall we?
Mind you, Tom has banned Nathan about 5 times... Where is he nowadays, anyways?

I hope you don't think I am gloating...we work hard, behind the scenes, to avoid having to discipline people. I think public discussion of the mechanics of what causes someone to be banned is important. I would hate for anyone to think that we simply attack anyone who disagrees with us, for instance.

[Tom Mattson]

Originally posted by FZ+
Mind you, Tom has banned Nathan about 5 times...


I can't ban people. My powers do not extend outside of the Homework Help forum.

[M. Gaspar]

I know this is NOT the PSYCHOLOGY Forum, but...

Does anybody have an sympathy for this kid?

Can you imagine what he must be like IN PERSON???

Guess there's no way to help him via this medium...but you gotta know he's an UNHAPPY PERSON who will be hitting his head against brick walls of his own creation for some time.

[drag]

Or maybe this one [:D] :
http://www.klingons.com/library/media_ds9.asp?ID=109782

[enigma]

Let's stop badmouthing him, please.

[BoulderHead]

Originally posted by enigma
Let's stop badmouthing him, please. Alright, you shamed me into deleting my posts.

[M. Gaspar]

Originally posted by Fliption
Hey that's funny. BTW, I popped into another forum today and saw that LA had been there. This particular forum has a "report" feature at the bottom of each post so that you can report someone if you want to. On his first day in this forum he was clicking away on that button reporting people. Lol. Me thinks he won't be there long.

What other forum?

[wimms]

I've seen in some racing forums nice feature. When a person makes a 'fault', admins can put him onto 'yellow flag', ie warning. Everyone sees his 'status'. If he does not react and continues abuse, he gets a 'red flag' for a week. If that doesn't help, ban.
Its good point is that it makes communicating 'mechanics of ban' pretty illustrated. Tighter community. More chances that it won't get too far. Some kids need wider 'gravel deceleration space' [:D]

[FZ+]

Some other forums have a "karma" feature, where moderators can vote up an user's karma. If your karma is on one star... watch out!

[Nicool003]

Well Badmouthing him...any topic about him could be considered that couldnt it? He said in the philosophy forum that people dont have rights. Come on! what is that? And I think quite a few of us have the right to let off some steam I mean if it werent for BoulderHead, Mentat, Mistress Lilith, and astrnoomer107 I would have left 3 days after he came- permanetley. The guy made a topic against me because *GASP* I'm religous! *double gasp!*

[Shadow]

I shouldnt say anything because when that happened I was not a member. However, I do agree that LA should have been banned because he caused trouble and he ruined several threads...I do not want to get in trouble so that is all I will say.


Some other forums have a "karma" feature, where moderators can vote up an user's karma. If your karma is on one star... watch out!

If a moderator disliked someone and say one other did too and there were only 7 mods then that would hurt that persons "karma" quite a bit and that means they could overpower the administrator. This is a good system and bad. If it were real life it would be good, like the system of gov. in the US except without the supremem court. However online the mods could overpower the admin couldn't they? They would not be good

[enigma]

Originally posted by Nicool003
Well Badmouthing him... I think quite a few of us have the right to let off some steam

He's not around to defend himself anymore, so let's just forget about him, K?

[Royce]

Like Les I got fed up and went to the physics forum vowing never to return. But of course I was back tonight.
My real complaint is that he, Alexander, blocks nearly every thread, takes it over and side tracks it usually back to his own mystism. I can't call it logic, philosophy or science. He even Concluded one of mentat's threads for him.(for which I called him on) LA is nearly as bad but if he blocked all of us he had nothing to read but A's ramblings. If he's gone there's no point in talking about it.
Everyone, anyone, PLEASE let me know if I get out of line or become a pain, by PM. I came very close to letting Alexander run me off thinking that it might be a general consensus. Thanks to a couple of you I'm still here even it I am a pain sometimes, but then aren't we all.

[Kerrie]

seriously, i think we should move on with our lives...continuous comments in a public forum about him is only fattening his ego...

[wimms]

Originally posted by FZ+
Some other forums have a "karma" feature, where moderators can vote up an user's karma. If your karma is on one star... watch out! Democracy, hah. It never works. One man must be liable for his judgement with his neck. Given god powers, and if he does wrong, he is 'deballed'. I'm happy with powerful mods. That at least gives personality to a forum style.

I have one more issue that seems confusing to me. Here on forums are many people who are pro scientists mixed with people of very different levels. When you are on top and know the subject inside out, its so easy to sort out whats crap and what isn't. Those top guys too often ignore threads they consider 'childish'. But those people who can't judge if what they are told is scientific or opinion, are easily getting confused.

To cut it short, I miss a way to see that a poster is actually scientist vs student, layman, etc. Often its embarrasing to see that two scientists start pointing eachother to highschool books.
Perhaps it would be too much hassle, but if mods required subscribers to specify their scientific rank and easily checkable proof, this would create nice reference of 'who is who'.

[M. Gaspar]

Originally posted by wimms
Democracy, hah. It never works. One man must be liable for his judgement with his neck. Given god powers, and if he does wrong, he is 'deballed'. I'm happy with powerful mods. That at least gives personality to a forum style.

I have one more issue that seems confusing to me. Here on forums are many people who are pro scientists mixed with people of very different levels. When you are on top and know the subject inside out, its so easy to sort out whats crap and what isn't. Those top guys too often ignore threads they consider 'childish'. But those people who can't judge if what they are told is scientific or opinion, are easily getting confused.

To cut it short, I miss a way to see that a poster is actually scientist vs student, layman, etc. Often its embarrasing to see that two scientists start pointing eachother to highschool books.
Perhaps it would be too much hassle, but if mods required subscribers to specify their scientific rank and easily checkable proof, this would create nice reference of 'who is who'. \

As a "layperson" myself, it's on ME to sort out when I'm being misinformed or not. There's plenty of reference materials out there to substantiate or debunk someone's contentions.

I would NOT like to see a hierarchy initiated that puts science-types at the TOP and us right-brainers at the bottom.

Contributions to scientific throught have come from those OUTSIDE the profession...and left to the "grunts" (mathematicians) to prove them right.

So, how many "friends" did I make on THIS particular post?

And, please, somebody tell me what "blocking" is.

[Shadow]

You can "block" or "ignore" people by adding them to your ignore list. As far as I know this only disallows people from sending you PM's but they can still read your posts and you can still read theirs.


Hope that helps.


P.S. I was not a member on PF 2 however I did read the threads for a month or two and I think you should go on ALexander, we all have different points of view and different beliefs and although I dont support his he does have a right to them. Also he dontated a large sum of money to help keep PF running at one point so if it were not for his help this PF might not be around. for any who missed that fact, greg had a donation page and it said members who donated in the past and who donated in the present. Alexander was in the past colum but I am sure with the sum of money he donated it was another time in which PF needed money to keep it running so perhaps you should keep that in mind before being to hard on him. I have read some of his threads and yes he can be disruptive but next to LA who was a member for 3 weeks and posted things like "I dont know" and harassed people and made a topic against nicool, sent a PM to greg about integral, and block practically everyone on PF, (along with saying something weird and not true about me when I had only been a member for one day), Alexander looks pretty darn good.

[M. Gaspar]

Originally posted by Shadow
You can "block" or "ignore" people by adding them to your ignore list. As far as I know this only disallows people from sending you PM's but they can still read your posts and you can still read theirs.


Hope that helps.


P.S. I was not a member on PF 2 however I did read the threads for a month or two and I think you should go on ALexander, we all have different points of view and different beliefs and although I dont support his he does have a right to them. Also he dontated a large sum of money to help keep PF running at one point so if it were not for his help this PF might not be around. for any who missed that fact, greg had a donation page and it said members who donated in the past and who donated in the present. Alexander was in the past colum but I am sure with the sum of money he donated it was another time in which PF needed money to keep it running so perhaps you should keep that in mind before being to hard on him. I have read some of his threads and yes he can be disruptive but next to LA who was a member for 3 weeks and posted things like "I dont know" and harassed people and made a topic against nicool, sent a PM to greg about integral, and block practically everyone on PF, (along with saying something weird and not true about me when I had only been a member for one day), Alexander looks pretty darn good.

Thanks for the info, although the "blocking" sounds more "overriding" than "ignore"...as if blocking means you can't even POST something. Glad I'm wrong.

Re donations of money: I'd be happy to donate something. While others pay for sex, I would pay good money to have people read my ramblings.

And I don't have to worry about "catching something" other than a hair-brained idea [8)] ...or two [8)] [8)] .

[Integral]

There have been some very good points made in the last few posts. I too have dreamt of some system where posters could be ranked by post quality and sound physical content. There have been "laymen" who made very meaningful contributions to the board, likewise there have been some knowledable people who have created issues. So I do not think we could possibly rank by claimed backgrounds, only on what is shown here.

I was asked to be a mod, because I do have a certian amount of knowledge of Phyics and Math, I feel it is my job to do the filtering of the Phyiscs forums. I attempt to at least scan every post made. If I feel that a thread is not presenting some meaningful and valid phsics it will be locked, moved to Theory Development, or deleted. I do not like the last option and use it only on extreme cases. Hopefully you can read the posts in Physics and not have to worry about the content.

Indeed there are some posters who I feel are more knowledgeable, Tom, Hurykl, Halls of Ivy, and Alexander, with the caveat that Alexander does like to push his line of Philosophy, as long as he is directly answering phyics and math questions his information is good. I like to believe that this is the reason that he is still here.

I have not been posting much since the switch to the new forums, due to time constraints and the fact that there are several very knowledgeabel posters who have been doing a very good job of providing good information, means that I do not have to intervene or provide a answer to a dangling thread. But I still moniter the Forums and have found the time to post more the last few days.

As a side note my work schedual has changed for the summer, I am now working day shift rather then graveyard, on graveyard there were often nights when I could watch the forum closely, such is not the case on dayshift, so my posting from work will be very limited, this coupled with the fact that I will be working 50-60hrs a week tends to limit forum time.

[maximus]

i don't know about those people in particular, but i do get a sense of a constant battle going on in a lot of forums. there is a major hierarchy here and a battle for supremisty that i'd just rather stay away from...