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Doug Goncz
May12-04, 01:29 PM
<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','toolbar=no, location=no,scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no ,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usenet ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>Could the equivalence principle be slightly wrong?\n\nhttp://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2004/06may_lunarranging.htm\n\nCalling Uncle Al.....\n\n\n\nYours,\n\nDoug Goncz ( ftp://users.aol.com/DGoncz/ )\n\nRead about my physics project at NVCC:\nhttp://groups.google.com/groups?q=dgoncz&scoring=d plus\n"bicycle", "fluorescent", "inverter", "flywheel", "ultracapacitor", etc.\nin the search box\n\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form">&nbsp;&nbsp;View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky>Could the equivalence principle be slightly wrong?

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2004/06may_lunarranging.htm

Calling Uncle Al.....



Yours,

Doug Goncz ( ftp://users.aol.com/DGoncz/ )

Read about my physics project at NVCC:
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=dgoncz&scoring=d plus
"bicycle", "fluorescent", "inverter", "flywheel", "ultracapacitor", etc.
in the search box
Uncle Al
May13-04, 05:25 AM
<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','toolbar=no, location=no,scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no ,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usenet ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>Doug Goncz wrote:\n&gt;\n&gt; Could the equivalence principle be slightly wrong?\n&gt;\n&gt; http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2004/06may_lunarranging.htm\n&gt;\n&gt; Calling Uncle Al.....\n\n"8^&gt;)\n\nhttp://arXiv.org/abs/gr-qc/0301024\nhttp://arXiv.org/abs/gr-qc/0311039\nNordtvedt Effect\n&lt;http://www.npl.washington.edu/eotwash/pdf/prl83-3585.pd&gt;\nNo EP violation to 1 in 2 trillion difference/average\n\nI expect everything will be observed to be by the book, Einstein or\nWeitzenboeck, to the very last significant decimal place. There is no\nreason to suspect an EP violation from composition because no theory\nof gravitation contains composition in its equations. All mass and\nmass currents are anonymous and fungible. Uncle Al maintains that the\nproper test of spacetime geometry is test mass geometry. There is no\nevading geometry in any theory of gravitation.\n\nAfter the 01 May APS meeting,\n\nhttp://www.aps.org/meet/APR04/baps/abs/S690006.html\nhttp://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz.pdf\nUpdated graphs and data.\n\nEric Adelberger and his Eot-Wash group entered into a so-far informal\ncollaboration with Uncle Al and the parity Eotvos experiment. WE ARE\nGOING TO DO IT in space group P3(1)21 vs. P3(2)21 alpha-quartz!\nMichel Petitjean pledged his full support as needed. It is a simple\nexperiment to perform and the results are unambiguous. Adelberger\'s\nnew rotor appears be sensitive to one in ten trillion\ndifference/average,\n\nhttp://www.npl.washington.edu/eotwash/m6_2.html\n\nAs Mark Hopkins (whopkins\'at\'csd.uwm.edu) has kindly noted at length\nhere and in sci.physics, there are fundamental mathematical ties\nbetween parity violation and fermion mass emergence. Mass enters the\nDirac equation by coupling the left and right handed components of the\nDirac spinor. It\'s an interaction\n\npsi_L &lt;-&gt; psi_R\n\nwith coupling constant m, the mass itself. Fermion spin couples to\ntorsion in the Einstein-Kibble-Sciama version of Einstein-Cartan GR\n(probably the closest thing to a standard theory for fermion gravity,\nto date), so non-zero torsion already follows. All matter is\nfermionic. Lots of other supportive stuff...\n\nIf the parity Eotvos experiment gives a reproducible net output, there\nis ample existing theory to contain it. A non-null output will be\n"obvious" in retrospect. I\'ll be eagerly anticipating the first\npundit to say that. First, we have to load a rotor.\n\n--\nUncle Al\nhttp://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz.pdf\nhttp://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/eotvos.htm\n(Do something naughty to physics)\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form">&nbsp;&nbsp;View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky>Doug Goncz wrote:
>
> Could the equivalence principle be slightly wrong?
>
> http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2004/06may_lunarranging.htm
>
> Calling Uncle Al....."8^>)

http://arXiv.org/abs/http://www.arxiv.org/abs/gr-qc/0301024
http://arXiv.org/abs/http://www.arxiv.org/abs/gr-qc/0311039
Nordtvedt Effect
<http://www.npl.washington.edu/eotwash/pdf/prl83-3585.pd>
No EP violation to 1 in 2 trillion difference/average

I expect everything will be observed to be by the book, Einstein or
Weitzenboeck, to the very last significant decimal place. There is no
reason to suspect an EP violation from composition because no theory
of gravitation contains composition in its equations. All mass and
mass currents are anonymous and fungible. Uncle Al maintains that the
proper test of spacetime geometry is test mass geometry. There is no
evading geometry in any theory of gravitation.

After the 01 May APS meeting,

http://www.aps.org/meet/APR04/baps/abs/S690006.html
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz.pdf
Updated graphs and data.

Eric Adelberger and his Eot-Wash group entered into a so-far informal
collaboration with Uncle Al and the parity Eotvos experiment. WE ARE
GOING TO DO IT in space group P3(1)21 vs. P3(2)21 \alpha-quartz!
Michel Petitjean pledged his full support as needed. It is a simple
experiment to perform and the results are unambiguous. Adelberger's
new rotor appears be sensitive to one in ten trillion
difference/average,

http://www.npl.washington.edu/eotwash/m6_2.html

As Mark Hopkins (whopkins'at'csd.uwm.edu) has kindly noted at length
here and in sci.physics, there are fundamental mathematical ties
between parity violation and fermion mass emergence. Mass enters the
Dirac equation by coupling the left and right handed components of the
Dirac spinor. It's an interaction

\psi_L <-> \psi_R

with coupling constant m, the mass itself. Fermion spin couples to
torsion in the Einstein-Kibble-Sciama version of Einstein-Cartan GR
(probably the closest thing to a standard theory for fermion gravity,
to date), so non-zero torsion already follows. All matter is
fermionic. Lots of other supportive stuff...

If the parity Eotvos experiment gives a reproducible net output, there
is ample existing theory to contain it. A non-null output will be
"obvious" in retrospect. I'll be eagerly anticipating the first
pundit to say that. First, we have to load a rotor.

--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz.pdf
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/eotvos.htm
(Do something naughty to physics)
Alfred Einstead
May17-04, 05:05 AM
<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','toolbar=no, location=no,scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no ,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usenet ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>\n\nUncle Al &lt;UncleAl0@hate.spam.net&gt; wrote:\n&gt; As Mark Hopkins (whopkins\'at\'csd.uwm.edu) has kindly noted at length\n&gt; here and in sci.physics, there are fundamental mathematical ties\n&gt; between parity violation and fermion mass emergence. Mass enters the\n&gt; Dirac equation by coupling the left and right handed components of the\n&gt; Dirac spinor. It\'s an interaction\n&gt;\n&gt; psi_L &lt;-&gt; psi_R\n&gt;\n&gt; with coupling constant m, the mass itself.\n\nJust as important is the link between chiral non-invariance and\nboson masses, with the boson mass matrix being proportional to\nthe trace of the square (YL - YR):\nm_{ab} = k tr((YL-YR)_a (YL-YR)_b),\nfor a, b Lie components.\nY_a the charge generator for boson a;\nYL, YR the left and right chiral reps. in fermion space\n\nIt doesn\'t seem that this follows from the assumptions behind the\nStandard Model, but rather something that has to be written in\nby hand.\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form">&nbsp;&nbsp;View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky>Uncle Al <UncleAl0@hate.spam.net> wrote:
> As Mark Hopkins (whopkins'at'csd.uwm.edu) has kindly noted at length
> here and in sci.physics, there are fundamental mathematical ties
> between parity violation and fermion mass emergence. Mass enters the
> Dirac equation by coupling the left and right handed components of the
> Dirac spinor. It's an interaction
>
> \psi_L <-> \psi_R
>
> with coupling constant m, the mass itself.

Just as important is the link between chiral non-invariance and
boson masses, with the boson mass matrix being proportional to
the trace of the square (YL - YR):m_{ab} = k tr((YL-YR)_a (YL-YR)_b),
for a, b Lie components.
Y_a the charge generator for boson a;
YL, YR the left and right chiral reps. in fermion space

It doesn't seem that this follows from the assumptions behind the
Standard Model, but rather something that has to be written in
by hand.
Igor Khavkine
May17-04, 06:15 PM
<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','toolbar=no, location=no,scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no ,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usenet ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>On Wed, 12 May 2004 18:35:07 +0000 (UTC) Doug Goncz wrote:\n&gt; Could the equivalence principle be slightly wrong?\n&gt;\n&gt; http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2004/06may_lunarranging.htm\n\nThat may very well be, but not according to this article.\nSummary: no news yet, experimental precision improving,\nstay tuned.\n\nOne should not leap to conclusions lightly.\n\nIgor\n\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form">&nbsp;&nbsp;View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky>On Wed, 12 May 2004 18:35:07 +0000 (UTC) Doug Goncz wrote:
> Could the equivalence principle be slightly wrong?
>
> http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2004/06may_lunarranging.htm

That may very well be, but not according to this article.
Summary: no news yet, experimental precision improving,
stay tuned.

One should not leap to conclusions lightly.

Igor
Doug Goncz
May20-04, 03:46 PM
<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','toolbar=no, location=no,scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no ,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usenet ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>&gt;From: Igor Khavkine k_igor_k@lycos.com\n\n&gt;One should not leap to conclusions lightly.\n\nI try to make my leaps, which I make rather too frequently, as lightly and\ngracefully as I can!\n\nWhy? Because frequently I must find my way back....\n\nHowever, I didn\'t make any leap in the OP.\n\nWhen I wrote:\n\n&gt;&gt; Could the equivalence principle be slightly wrong?\n\nI was merely summarizing the article.\n\n&gt;From: Igor Khavkine\n\n&gt;Summary: no news yet, experimental precision improving,\n&gt;stay tuned.\n\nThat\'s a better summary.\n\nI am particularly taken by the mass density uniformity and optical class\nsphericity of the rotating spheres which are the gyroscopes in the system.\n\nThe satellite actuates its thrusters so that the free orbit of the captured\nspheres is undisturbed by contact with the interface equipment. It sort of\nflies around them, following their lead, patiently reporting on their behavior.\n\n\nYours,\n\nDoug Goncz ( ftp://users.aol.com/DGoncz/ )\n\nRead about my physics project at NVCC:\nhttp://groups.google.com/groups?q=dgoncz&scoring=d plus\n"bicycle", "fluorescent", "inverter", "flywheel", "ultracapacitor", etc.\nin the search box\n\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form">&nbsp;&nbsp;View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky>>From: Igor Khavkine k_{igor_k}@lycos.com

>One should not leap to conclusions lightly.

I try to make my leaps, which I make rather too frequently, as lightly and
gracefully as I can!

Why? Because frequently I must find my way back....

However, I didn't make any leap in the OP.

When I wrote:

>> Could the equivalence principle be slightly wrong?

I was merely summarizing the article.

>From: Igor Khavkine

>Summary: no news yet, experimental precision improving,
>stay tuned.

That's a better summary.

I am particularly taken by the mass density uniformity and optical class
sphericity of the rotating spheres which are the gyroscopes in the system.

The satellite actuates its thrusters so that the free orbit of the captured
spheres is undisturbed by contact with the interface equipment. It sort of
flies around them, following their lead, patiently reporting on their behavior.


Yours,

Doug Goncz ( ftp://users.aol.com/DGoncz/ )

Read about my physics project at NVCC:
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=dgoncz&scoring=d plus
"bicycle", "fluorescent", "inverter", "flywheel", "ultracapacitor", etc.
in the search box