This Forum Needs an Enema

[peter0302]

Guys I have to post something about this because things are getting out of control.

What is it about this website that causes people - who I'm sure are perfectly amicable in real life - to become so mean spirited?

You all know what I mean. People go out of their way to criticize each other over trivialities, question each others' intelligence and background, make sarcastic remarks to each other, and so on. Harldy a thread goes by longer than a page where someone is not attacking - openly or subtly - someone else.

This is physics, not politics or school yard brawling. The only legitimate reason to be here is if you either wish to learn or to help others learn. It should not be a soapbox for you to demonstrate your superior intellect to the world or put down others who do not know as much as you.

I implore the moderators to add a COMITY policy to their guidelines and enforce it strictly. Prohibit personal comments about other members or their views. Force people to speak objectively and delete posts which do not. Ban members who consistently go out of their way to pick fights with others.

I realize this is technically already a part of the guidelines, but it should be clearer and enforced with more frequency. The negative atmosphere around here really detracts from what otherwise would be a very educational and intellectually stimulating place.

[Greg Bernhardt]

I would encourage you to report any thread in question and PM a mentor with other concerns. Don't let things build up.

[Marty]

I implore the moderators to add a COMITY policy to their guidelines and enforce it strictly. Prohibit personal comments about other members or their views. Force people to speak objectively and delete posts which do not. Ban members who consistently go out of their way to pick fights with others.


What if the people who go out of their way to pick fights are the same people who have the power to ban members?

[jostpuur]

What is it about this website that causes people - who I'm sure are perfectly amicable in real life - to become so mean spirited?


You are speaking about the effect of the internet on the people there. I've communicated with other people in various places in the internet, and PF is no doubt among the most civilized places here. Of course nothing is perfect, though.

[dlgoff]

Yes. I don't see any problems here.

[mheslep]

I do.

[peter0302]

You are speaking about the effect of the internet on the people there. I've communicated with other people in various places in the internet, and PF is no doubt among the most civilized places here. Of course nothing is perfect, though.

Does that justify it? This is not some fanboy site dedicated to arguing about phasers versus lightsabers. We're supposed to be scientists, people who value truth above personal prejudices. Why should someone's opinion or question - even if they misunderstand something you understand better - spark the heated responses we often see, often at the drop of a hat?

[George Jones]

What if the people who go out of their way to pick fights are the same people who have the power to ban members?

Marty, using a different username, was previously banned, hence his comment.

[Borek]

To some extent I agree with the OP. Only to some extent, as in general PF is an island of reason on the ocean of internet :wink: However, now and then someone cames and asks some question about - say - double slit experiment, or LHC black holes. In many cases - at least IMHO - these questions are not crackpottery, just people don't understand something and they look for a place to ask, they genuinely came to learn something. And when I see answers given I sometimes have a feeling that those answering are prejudiced. I can be wrong as English is my second language, so I can be missing some fine points, but that's my feeling.

[Moonbear]

I would also like to point out that there is a big difference between heated debate and insults. If the arguments focus on the topic, no matter how passionate people about it (and it would be pretty tough to expect scientists to NOT be passionate about science), then that is fine. Not every issue is cut and dry or without controversy, and that should be discussed when needed. Likewise, if someone's post contains blatantly incorrect information, that should be pointed out for the sake of learning.

Insults are posts that attack the poster, not the content of the post. Once in a while, a little off-topic banter happens in the middle of a thread, and as long as it's clear where it relates to the thread topic and doesn't go too far afield, sometimes that's allowed to stay just to keep the forum fun. However, when posts are inserted that are not on the topic and are only there to criticize other people (not their stated positions in the thread, but the person), then they are not appropriate.

As Greg pointed out early in this thread, if you see posts that are insults or criticizing the PERSON, not the subject content of the thread, please report them. If there are a lot of posts by one individual that are of concern, report ONE of them and put an explanatory note with the report that the mentors should review their other posts as well.

Of course, some people simply get touchy when their misunderstandings are being pointed out to them, no matter how it is explained. I've seen students call homework helpers rude for not handing them answers and suggesting they read a particular section of their textbook...in those cases, the one crying loudest about the rudeness is the only one being rude. But, as we see these incidents, we try to address them.

And, also keep in mind Borek's point about English as a second (or third or fourth) language for many of our members. Sometimes, the way a person says something is very direct because they do not have the English language skills yet to phrase things any other way. It is not rudeness or arrogance or insults, it's just a lack of fluency to say things in any gentler of a way. When pointing out an error, they may state, "You're wrong," rather than "That's wrong." In the end, it really means the same thing, and only someone already feeling insecure about their knowledge would misunderstand that to mean anything than a correction of the facts, but nonetheless, it happens and someone gets a bit touchy about being told they are wrong.

Overall, it's best to remember that people are drawn here from a common interest in science, discussing science, learning science, teaching science, and generally do not have ulterior motives other than to ensure that those with questions get accurate answers.

[Cyclovenom]

Wow Moon! excellent explanation!. Greg should put your answer in a FAQ or something. Maybe a sticky :smile:. Btw congrats on a excellent 10000 post.

[jimmysnyder]

Some discussions start out fine and end up badly. This one started out badly (enema after all was meant to be a fighting word in this context) and ended up fine.

[peter0302]

Some discussions start out fine and end up badly. This one started out badly (enema after all was meant to be a fighting word in this context) and ended up fine.
I suggest you watch the first Batman movie with Jack Nicholson.

[jimmysnyder]

I suggest you watch the first Batman movie with Jack Nicholson.
I haven't seen it and am unlikely to see it now. What would I learn from it?

[octelcogopod]

As far as the philosophy section goes (which is usually filled with knowledgeable thoughtful people) I don't mind a sort of 'edge' to posts.
Personal attacks are bad, but just pointing out a potential flaw in someone isn't so bad.
After all, why would the other person take it seriously, he can do one of two things.. Learn from it or retaliate and win the argument.

I've never encountered true hostility in the philosophy section at least. Just some edgy remarks here and there ;)

[peter0302]

I haven't seen it and am unlikely to see it now. What would I learn from it?
The joke inherent in the title of this thread.

What needs to be "cleaned out" is the hostility and edginess. Everyone needs to lighten up.

[||spoon||]

I can honestly say that this forum is the best I have been a member of, both on quality of content and general atmosphere.

[jimmysnyder]

The joke inherent in the title of this thread.
Well don't keep me hanging, what is the joke? It sounds to me like 'This Forum Is Full Of ****".

[peter0302]

The joker said "this town needs an enema." That's all. It's not "fighting words." The *** that needs to be cleaned out is the meanspiritedness that predominates around here and all over the Internet. It's the fact that everyone is so trigger happy and loves to jump on other people at the drop of a hat. It's that when given two possible interpretations of a statement, 80% of the people here will automatically chose the one that causes them the most offense.

And if anyone thinks that what's going on is just spirited debate then they have a very odd view of what debate should look like.

[jimmysnyder]

The joker said "this town needs an enema." That's all. It's not "fighting words." The *** that needs to be cleaned out is the meanspiritedness that predominates around here and all over the Internet. It's the fact that everyone is so trigger happy and loves to jump on other people at the drop of a hat. It's that when given two possible interpretations of a statement, 80% of the people here will automatically chose the one that causes them the most offense.

And if anyone thinks that what's going on is just spirited debate then they have a very odd view of what debate should look like.
Now I get it. It's funnier than I thought it would be.

[tribdog]

As one of the more distracting posters I can say for a fact that the mentors are quite efficient at stopping attacks. Even though I don't try to be mean I have stepped over the line from time to time and I've gotten busted every time.

[ZapperZ]

I think this forum DID just get an "enema". So we're good.

Zz.