Sarah Palin's America

[Ivan Seeking]

We believe that the best of America is not all in Washington, D.C. We believe" -- here the audience interrupted Palin with applause and cheers -- "We believe that the best of America is in these small towns that we get to visit, and in these wonderful little pockets of what I call the real America, being here with all of you hard working very patriotic, um, very, um, pro-America areas of this great nation. This is where we find the kindness and the goodness and the courage of everyday Americans. Those who are running our factories and teaching our kids and growing our food and are fighting our wars for us. Those who are protecting us in uniform. Those who are protecting the virtues of freedom."
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/10/17/palin_clarifies_her_pro-americ.html

It seems that Palin only wishes to represent some Americans. I wonder which cities and States she considers anti-American. Could it be that by pro-American, she means white?

[Hurkyl]

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/10/17/palin_clarifies_her_pro-americ.html

It seems that Palin only wishes to represent some Americans. I wonder which cities and States she considers anti-American.
Gee, you're trying really hard to stir up trouble, aren't ye? :rolleyes:

Could it be that by pro-American, she means white?
Please provide links supporting your allegation. If you cannot, then you really ought to withdraw the comment.

[Ivan Seeking]

Gee, you're trying really hard to stir up trouble, aren't ye? :rolleyes:

Then tell me, what did she mean? Are small town folk better Americans than city folk?

Please provide links supporting your allegation. If you cannot, then you really ought to withdraw the comment.

First you will have to inform me as to which States are pro-American, and which States are anti-American. I asked what she meant. And yes, I do have my suspicions.

A question is an allegation?

[Count Iblis]

Could it be that by pro-American, she means white?

I think it she means people who like her cling to guns and religion. :smile:

[cristo]

She's an idiot: it's hardly worth trying to guess what she means because she probably doesn't even know herself.

[Ivan Seeking]

Cristo, although I agree in principle, I think we have a right a clear answer as to what she means. Keep in mind that almost half of this country is ready to cast a vote that would put her one heartbeat from the Presidency. Now is our only chance to learn more about this mystery woman before, potentially, she is given the nuclear launch codes.

So far we know that her husband was a seven-year member of a group whose founder stated that he hates America - a group that wants to secede from the Union. Note that we fought a civil war over secession. She has expressed the clear intent to expand the powers of the Vice President with complete disregard for the Constitution. She even referred to the Palin-McCain ticket in one rally! She apparently sees nothing wrong with Cheney and his abuse of power. She claims experience that she clearly doesn't have. She attends extremist end-time churches where people speak in tongues.. Frankly, I think we have good reason to be very concerned about this woman and her "first dude".

[Hurkyl]

Now is our only chance to learn more about this mystery woman before, potentially, she is given the nuclear launch codes.
Fearmongering now? :rolleyes:

[Count Iblis]

Palin must have all options available to deal with Eyeran's nukular weapons that can wipe Israel off the map any moment now.

[turbo]

Palin had a rally in Bangor, ME yesterday and drew about 6000 people. She has a solution for Maine's high rate of taxation - "The solution is to stop spending so doggone much money." What an economic powerhouse she is. We are a very rural state with lots of infrastructure to maintain, and with jobs flying out the window, tax revenues are falling. At the same time, the costs of asphalt, diesel, etc are soaring and we have had to defer badly-needed highway maintenance because we simply don't have the money.

It's appalling that she could come to the state and beg for votes with NO briefing on some of the specific challenges that we face, including paper mill closings, sawmill closings, and a practical collapse of the lobster industry, with high fuel costs, decreasing demand for lobsters, etc conspiring to drive lots of previously successful fishermen out of business. Taxes too high? Don't spend so much doggoned money! Why didn't we think of that?

[fourier jr]

Then tell me, what did she mean? Are small town folk better Americans than city folk?

That's not as far-fetched as it might sound. Wal-Mart wouldn't have gotten its start in small-town Arkansas if it weren't for the people there who hated the big store chains from New York, etc. The people who think it makes sense to call a 200,000 square-foot Wal-Mart a "neighbourhood market" are probably the sort of people Palin wants to represent.

[SticksandStones]

I kind of hope McCain and Palin win just so I can have another four years of funny news broadcasts...then I remember I want there to still be an America in four years.

Wal-Mart wouldn't have gotten its start in small-town Arkansas if it weren't for the people there who hated the big store chains from New York, etc. How does this make them better? Makes them sound incapable of making a decision based on objective values.

[Count Iblis]

Palin's supporters: (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article4944922.ece)


Others considered Mr Obama to be a subversive, terrorist- sympathising, America-hating radical and covert Muslim. They cited his links to the former Weathermen militant Bill Ayers, and to Jeremiah Wright, his fiery former minister. Some claimed that he supported sharia in Kenya and consorted with Hugo Chávez of Venezuela.

“What turned me off was the way he wouldn't put his hand over his heart for the Pledge of Allegiance or wear a flag pin. I don't know how you can call yourself an American if you don't do that,” Heather Zimerman, 39, a substitute teacher, said.

“He's smart, articulate and beguiling but his supporters — his inner circle— are radicals who want revolution,” Billy Benton, 55, an estate agent, said. “I don't know what he was doing in Indonesia all those years — hanging around with Muslim terrorists?” Madeleine Willis, 60, a retired factory worker, asked.



:yuck:

[Ivan Seeking]

While I have heard her praise the flag many times, not once have I heard her defend or praise the Constitution.

[phoenixy]

Palin had a rally in Bangor, ME yesterday and drew about 6000 people. She has a solution for Maine's high rate of taxation - "The solution is to stop spending so doggone much money." What an economic powerhouse she is. We are a very rural state with lots of infrastructure to maintain, and with jobs flying out the window, tax revenues are falling. At the same time, the costs of asphalt, diesel, etc are soaring and we have had to defer badly-needed highway maintenance because we simply don't have the money.

It's appalling that she could come to the state and beg for votes with NO briefing on some of the specific challenges that we face, including paper mill closings, sawmill closings, and a practical collapse of the lobster industry, with high fuel costs, decreasing demand for lobsters, etc conspiring to drive lots of previously successful fishermen out of business. Taxes too high? Don't spend so much doggoned money! Why didn't we think of that?

The funny thing is the day before the Palin rally, RNC decided to pull out from Maine. It appears that for some reason Palin didn't get the memo from her own party, which is rapidly collapsing like a dysfunctional family.

So, above all else, this election proofs that community organizer is indeed an important asset.

[turbo]

The funny thing is the day before the Palin rally, RNC decided to pull out from Maine. It appears that for some reason Palin didn't get the memo from her own party, which is rapidly collapsing like a dysfunctional family.

So, above all else, this election proofs that community organizer is indeed an important asset.You know, if Obama showed up here for a rally, he would have drawn tens of thousands AND he would have have made specific knowledgeable comments about not only the challenges facing our state, but he also would have been able to make comparisons to current conditions in other states. The GOP is asking us to trust an old man with no dignity or integrity remaining, and an air-head evangelical whose grasp of policy, economics, etc, might charitably be said to be on a par with that of a middle-school student. (Not a smart, informed middle-school student, mind you.)

[mathwonk]

I grew up in Nashville Tennessee in the 1940's and 50's. I went to segregated schools, and segregated churches and movies, and rode on segregated buses. I have met a lot of bigots in my time, and struggled hard not to be one.

I think I know what kind of America Sarah Palin represents: can you spell "intolerant"?


Todays paper carried a story of the head of the Chaffee Community Republican Women's group, in San Bernardino, CA, who distributed a newsletter with a picture of Barack Obama on an $10 bill adorned with fried chicken, ribs and watermelon.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2008/10/obama-bucks-and.html

Diane Fedele, president of the organization said she had no racist intent. I guess she is pleading extreme imbecility.

Is this an example of the small town USA that was meant?

[TVP45]

I think the matter is whether we want to live in a country where knowledge and ideas are important or whether we think all that book learning is, by golly, just a bunch of elitist hogwash. In that vein, we have to ask whether we really, really value science or should we just go ahead and agree there must have been dinosaurs on Noah's ark.

It is telling that such dyed-in-the-wool conservatives as David Brooks, Kathleen Parker, Christopher Buckley, and even (in a small way) George Will have backed away from the anti-intellectualism of the Palin-McCain campaign.

How many of us knew right away what kind of "overhead projector" McCain so soundly derided? For goodness sakes, it was a star projection system (as soon as we heard $3 million, we knew) for the Adler Planetarium (long a hot-bed of cosmological radicals!).

[fourier jr]

How does this make them better? Makes them sound incapable of making a decision based on objective values.

I don't think it makes any sense either. Wal-Mart was small once but it too has become what the small-town Arkansans (?) hated when it got started.

[Ben Niehoff]

Any sort of "no true Scotsman" speech is quite disturbing. We are all Americans*, no matter what size city we live in.

* Meant to apply to US citizens, of course.

[lisab]

Sorry if this has been posted before -

Click around, have some fun!

http://www.palinaspresident.us/

[phoenixy]

Uh oh, Joe Biden heard it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3m6mJgFfqc&feature=user

[SticksandStones]

I grew up in Nashville Tennessee in the 1940's and 50's. I went to segregated schools, and segregated churches and movies, and rode on segregated buses. I have met a lot of bigots in my time, and struggled hard not to be one.

I think I know what kind of America Sarah Palin represents: can you spell "intolerant"?


Todays paper carried a story of the head of the Chaffee Community Republican Women's group, in San Bernardino, CA, who distributed a newsletter with a picture of Barack Obama on an $10 bill adorned with fried chicken, ribs and watermelon.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2008/10/obama-bucks-and.html

Diane Fedele, president of the organization said she had no racist intent. I guess she is pleading extreme imbecility.

Is this an example of the small town USA that was meant?
How, in the name of all that is holy, can someone do that without intending to be racist? There is NO way someone could just happen to pick up several racist stereotypes, throw them together, and have no knowledge of the racist implications of it.

[LowlyPion]

How, in the name of all that is holy, can someone do that without intending to be racist? There is NO way someone could just happen to pick up several racist stereotypes, throw them together, and have no knowledge of the racist implications of it.

I saw the interviews with this woman's family - her husband and her daughter - on MSNBC or CNN can't remember which and their response was what's stereotypical about fried chicken and watermelon on food stamps? The daughter said she ate fried chicken, so ...? The husband threw in the ridiculous observation of asking if spaghetti and meatballs was stereotypical.

Palin's America is apparently dumb as dirt.

[Ivan Seeking]

...Missouri Sen. Claire McCaskill had harsh words for Palin when she introduced Obama on Saturday. Referring to comments Palin made earlier this week in North Carolina about “pro-America” states, McCaskill said “We have reached a new low in America politics when a candidate dares to say that one part of America is pro-America and another part is anti-America.” [continued]
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/10/18/obama-rally-draws-100000-in-missouri/

[Evo]

I saw the interviews with this woman's family - her husband and her daughter - on MSNBC or CNN can't remember which and their response was what's stereotypical about fried chicken and watermelon on food stamps? The daughter said she ate fried chicken, so ...? The husband threw in the ridiculous observation of asking if spaghetti and meatballs was stereotypical.

Palin's America is apparently dumb as dirt.They're liers. No one could pick those foods and nothing else unintentionally. The only thing they left out was to dress him like Aunt Jemima.

People that say race isn't going to be a factor against Obama in this race are only fooling themselves.

There was another racist on the news that put up a big sign that said "No BRObama" and he put barbed wire around it so no one could take it down.

[Astronuc]

My mom lost two 'friends' when she challenged them on their comments such as 'Obama is a Muslim'. One of them derided my mom as a 'socialist'.

My mom is a very active member of the Methodist Church and engaged in such horrific acts as volunteering to help provide medical care and support to hurricane victims. My dad has helped counsel hurricane victims as well as provided support as he was able.

[Ivan Seeking]

Fearmongering now? :rolleyes:

If you consider it fear mongering to state the fact that as President, Palin would be given the nuclear launch codes, then perhaps we agree about Palin more than I realized.

So far we know that her husband was a seven-year member of a group whose founder stated that he hates America - a group that wants to secede from the Union. Note that we fought a civil war over secession. She has expressed the clear intent to expand the powers of the Vice President with complete disregard for the Constitution. She even referred to the Palin-McCain ticket in one rally! She apparently sees nothing wrong with Cheney and his abuse of power. She claims experience that she clearly doesn't have. She attends extremist end-time churches where people speak in tongues.. Frankly, I think we have good reason to be very concerned about this woman and her "first dude".

Oh yes, I left out that she has now been convicted of ethics violations and abuse of power, as Governer. Is it any wonder that she couldn't name one objections to Cheney's abuses? When asked, the only thing she could name was his hunting accident, which btw, was not an act as Vice President.

[Ivan Seeking]

My mom lost two 'friends' when she challenged them on their comments such as 'Obama is a Muslim'. One of them derided my mom as a 'socialist'.

Although I was once a loyal Republican, and while I do believe that there are many good people in the Republican party, and while I am essentially an economic conservative at heart, [social libertarian] the fact is that, racists, religious extremists, war and hate mongers, and anti-environmentalists, have long been essential players in the Republican party. As a Republican, I saw this as more background noise than anything. I agreed with the essential philosophies of the party and saw the rest as just..., well, unfortunate. But now this has changed.

Consider that Democrats lost the South for the last 40 years because they were responsible for the Civil Rights Act. How much more clear can it be? This was all about racism! In this regard, the distinction between the two parties is and has always been clear. But now, because of the catastrophic failures of the Republican's and their policies, and because we have not only the first black Presidential nominee, but also an incredibly talented and "transformational" one, the racists and hate mongers are forced out of the shadows. The Republicans can't hide the party trash in the alley any longer. It is time for this party to concede power, dissociate themselves from the extremists, and regain respectablity as the party of proper Conservatism.

As I have said before: For the Republicans, Sarah Palin is the end of the long road to nowhere. They have hit the end of the line.

[SticksandStones]

I'm not counting any chickens until they hatch. If there's one group of people that can snatch defeat from the jaws of victory it's the Democrats.

[Ivan Seeking]

I'm not counting any chickens until they hatch. If there's one group of people that can snatch defeat from the jaws of victory it's the Democrats.

Indeed! And we will find out shortly if Bush and Cheney were just an aberration - a form of short-term national insanity - or a foreshadowing of what's to come.

[Math Is Hard]

Uh oh, Joe Biden heard it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3m6mJgFfqc&feature=user

This just looks like the Democrat version of the "Lipstick on a pig" response. It's the same game - twist the opponent's words and feign outrage.

[Ivan Seeking]

This just looks like the Democrat version of the "Lipstick on a pig" response. It's the same game - twist the opponent's words and feign outrage.

The lipstick on a pig comment had been used before by Obama as well as McCain. Palin is suggesting that only some Americans are pro-America. How is that the same? And she did belabor the point that she meant "real Americans", and "the best of America".

This is not the same thing. What happened was that she let her true feelings be known.

Also, now Rush is suggesting that Powell's support of Obama is rooted in race. Suddenly Powell is too liberal for our extremists.

Politico's Jonathan Martin and Mike Allen get an email from Rush Limbaugh about Gen. Colin Powell's endorsement of Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill.

"Secretary Powell says his endorsement is not about race," Limbaugh wrote. "OK, fine. I am now researching his past endorsements to see if I can find all the inexperienced, very liberal, white candidates he has endorsed. I'll let you know what I come up with. [continued]
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/10/limbaugh-implie.html

[Math Is Hard]

The lipstick on a pig comment had been used before by Obama as well as McCain. Palin is suggesting that only some Americans are pro-America. How is that the same? And she did belabor the point that she meant "real Americans", and "the best of America".

This is not the same thing. What happened was that she let her true feelings be known.



Note the word "very"..

..very patriotic, um, very, um, pro-America areas of this great nation

If she had said "the only patriotic" and "the only pro-America" areas it would be a different story. If that had been the case, then it would be fair to say that she considers other parts of the nation not to be "pro-American".

All she did was praise a group of people that she sees as exceptionally patriotic. I don't see the reason for any fuss over it.

[Evo]

Actually, I have to question someone who would use the term "pro-America areas". That means, to me, she thinks some areas aren't.

I believe that she let her feelings slip out. She didn't say "the only" because she believes that there are other areas she considers "pro-America". There are apparently parts of the country that she doesn't. Like San Fransisco, perhaps. :wink:

[NeoDevin]

Todays paper carried a story of the head of the Chaffee Community Republican Women's group, in San Bernardino, CA, who distributed a newsletter with a picture of Barack Obama on an $10 bill adorned with fried chicken, ribs and watermelon.

Maybe it's just because I'm Canadian, and haven't been personally exposed to that much racism against blacks, but how exactly do fried chicken, ribs, and watermelon constitute racism?

[Ivan Seeking]

Note the word "very"..



If she had said "the only patriotic" and "the only pro-America" areas it would be a different story. If that had been the case, then it would be fair to say that she considers other parts of the nation not to be "pro-American".

All she did was praise a group of people that she sees as exceptionally patriotic. I don't see the reason for any fuss over it.

Then why did she refer to "real Americans"? There is no qualifier for that one. The implication is that others are not a real Americans.

Look at her entire statement. The context is clear. This is all about "them" vs "us". Note also that now Obama is a socialist! They are trying to claim that by any increase in taxes is socialism. Don't you see what these people are trying to pull?

[Ivan Seeking]

Maybe it's just because I'm Canadian, and haven't been personally exposed to that much racism against blacks, but how exactly do fried chicken, ribs, and watermelon constitute racism?

Here is the US, they are classic black stereotypes.

[Hurkyl]

Maybe it's just because I'm Canadian, and haven't been personally exposed to that much racism against blacks, but how exactly do fried chicken, ribs, and watermelon constitute racism?
If it makes you feel better, I'm from the States and had no idea.

[LowlyPion]

Palin's Alaska. This would be the way she would govern the US?
I came across this story from AP about minority tensions that Palin faces in Alaska with her time as Governor.
Black leaders say they feel snubbed by Palin
Hiring: Staff say it's evident governor supports diversity.

By RACHEL D'ORO
The Associated Press

Published: October 19th, 2008 12:24 AM
Last Modified: October 19th, 2008 12:50 AM

Alaska's black leaders say they're not surprised to see Gov. Sarah Palin at the center of the controversy over injecting the race issue into the presidential campaign.

Palin, Republican John McCain's running mate, has repeatedly insisted that Barack Obama's former preacher, the inflammatory Rev. Jeremiah Wright, is a legitimate issue even though McCain himself has said it's out of bounds.

"She has no sensitivity to minorities," said the Rev. Alonzo Patterson, a Baptist minister and president of the Alaska Black Leadership Conference. "She's really inciting a lot of African-Americans to get out and vote."

Since taking office in December 2006, Palin has had a sometimes tense relationship with black leaders, who say they've been ignored in their efforts to get more minorities hired in her administration.
http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/story/560727.html

[LowlyPion]

Maybe it's just because I'm Canadian, and haven't been personally exposed to that much racism against blacks, but how exactly do fried chicken, ribs, and watermelon constitute racism?

Unfortunately they carry the connotations of black minority culture, or maybe more properly the culture of the poor as these items also with the Kool-aid depicted are inexpensive dietary staples of the poor in the US South. Chicken is cheaper than pork or beef.

It's akin to suggesting that the Confederate Flag is not a symbol of racial suppression and supporting it within a more historical context of secession and states rights as McCain once did, and was forced to later recant.

But the fact remains that if the symbols carry meaning with the minorities against whom they are directed, then they are divisive. The derision in putting Obama's face on a food stamp with these symbols of black/poor culture demonstrate a remarkable lack of sensitivity and an interest in dividing rather than uniting.

It doesn't exactly reveal any kind of "reaching across the aisle" attitude when it comes to minorities.

[turbo]

It doesn't exactly reveal any kind of "reaching across the aisle" attitude when it comes to minorities.

But then, conservatives have always had a bit of trouble with the concept of diversity. The GOP likes to say it’s a big-tent. Looks more like a yurt to me. Go, Buckley!

[jcquiros]

She's an idiot: it's hardly worth trying to guess what she means because she probably doesn't even know herself.

I think you are right. I am sure she got lost traveling down the road that leads to nowhere.

[jcquiros]

I believe Sen. McCain picked the wrong woman for this very important role for our country. Obama's brilliance overshadows Palin's thirst for ignorance.

[mgb_phys]

Maybe it's just because I'm Canadian, and haven't been personally exposed to that much racism against blacks, but how exactly do fried chicken, ribs, and watermelon constitute racism?
I had a similair experience once - we were discussing a NMR based sensor, I mentioned that we had to be careful not to use the 'N' word when describing it in public.
The Europeans all understood - the Americans looked rather shocked, I only worked out later that the banned 'N' word is different!

[phoenixy]

Palin apologizes for 'real America' comment

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/21/palin.sitroom/index.html

[physics girl phd]

I'm worried that Sarah Palin's America includes people that leave a dead baby bear with campaign posters over its head on the steps of educational institutions. Even if the perpetrators claim it wasn't political:http://www.wcu.edu/11223.asp

[Astronuc]

Palin apologizes for 'real America' comment

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/21/palin.sitroom/index.html A headline with that article - If elected, Palin says she will address energy issues, government reform - flollowed by - Palin says she has more executive experience than Sen. Barack Obama

So she's running for president. :rofl:

Step aside John! :biggrin:

[Astronuc]

I'm worried that Sarah Palin's America includes people that leave a dead baby bear with campaign posters over its head on the steps of educational institutions. Even if the perpetrators claim it wasn't political:http://www.wcu.edu/11223.asp I find that troubling - specifically "En route to campus, the students took random political signs to put over the bear’s head in an effort to cover the head wound and prevent blood from spilling into the bed of the truck. The students dumped the bear into the center of the roundabout at the entrance to campus at about 2:40 a.m. Monday, and returned to their apartment."

The dead bear is bleeding such that they want to prevent spillage of the blood. If that's the case, it would seem it was a fresh kill. I would then suspect that they would have heard the shot, or they were involved in the shooting. Head wounds bleed profusely, and the blood at low pressure would coagulate, and the blood pressure would drop pretty quickly. I believe it is illegal shoot bears without government authorization.

[turbo]

There can be seepage, but dead animals do not bleed very much. Once the heart is stopped and the BP is equalized, coagulation stems further seepage. If the students were out camping, and stumbled upon a dead bear, the chances that the bear was still bleeding would be pretty small.

[mgb_phys]

So she's running for president. :rofl:
Step aside John! :biggrin:
Well McCain probably shouldn't go hunting with republican vice presidents!

[LowlyPion]

Well McCain probably doesn't want to go hunting with republican vice presidents!

I can't imagine that anyone would.

The surprising thing to me about paranoid Cheney going hunting was that they let the other hunters have live ammo.

[jcquiros]

Well in GRT we are talking about relativistic electrons, but uh it has to also, with job creation. I now have thorough knowledge of relativity because in so doing I can see Russia from my house and I know is all relative because even after we lose I will still be wearing lipstick and I will be a hockey mom...well my daughter also..will be a hockey mom...ooops..sorry mr. Conservative.

[Ivan Seeking]

The GOP reaching across the aisle.

Folks, there’s a real America, and liberals hate real Americans that work, and accomplish, and achieve, and believe in God.” U.S. Rep. Robin Hayes, R-N.C., warming up a crowd for a McCain rally.

Hayes claims he has no memory of saying that, even though the comments were recorded. I actually believe him. Such sentiments are so engrained in certain people that they recite it without thinking about it, as they were rattling off their phone number or directions to their house. [continued]
http://www.ajc.com/services/content/shared-blogs/ajc/bookman/entries/2008/10/21/liberals_hate_real_americans_1.html

Is it any wonder when we consider that right-wing radio includes the likes of McCain's good buddy, G Gordon Liddy?
http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=265625

[Adeimantus]

She attends extremist end-time churches where people speak in tongues. Frankly, I think we have good reason to be very concerned about this woman and her "first dude".

While I share your distaste for Palin, the practice of speaking in tongues is probably the least disturbing thing about the various churches she has attended and religious leaders she has associated with (Ed Kalnins, Thomas Muthee, etc.). Couldn't you have left that out and included something more relevant to her political outlook?

[LowlyPion]

While I share your distaste for Palin, the practice of speaking in tongues is probably the least disturbing thing about the various churches she has attended and religious leaders she has associated with. Couldn't you have left that out and included something more relevant to her political outlook?

Is she one of the snake bite Pentecostals?

I don't think there are many snakes in Alaska ... except maybe some of the politicians.

[Adeimantus]

Is she one of the snake bite Pentecostals?

I don't think there are many snakes in Alaska ... except maybe some of the politicians.

Haha. No, she's not. But that's a funny image. Actually, the snake handlers, or Sign Followers, as they like to be called, are pretty harmless to everyone else except themselves and their children. Oh, and the snakes probably don't like it. :wink:

[mgb_phys]

Is she one of the snake bite Pentecostals?
It's grizzly bear Pentecostals in Alaska - snakes are for softies.

[LowlyPion]

It's grizzly bear Pentecostals in Alaska - snakes are for softies.

As a true test of faith they smear peanut butter over their face and go lay out by the dumpsters and wait for the bears?

[Ivan Seeking]

While I share your distaste for Palin, the practice of speaking in tongues is probably the least disturbing thing about the various churches she has attended and religious leaders she has associated with (Ed Kalnins, Thomas Muthee, etc.). Couldn't you have left that out and included something more relevant to her political outlook?

Please feel free to list what you feel are more relevant objections. I guess for me, speaking in tongues crosses the line between irrational and delusional behavior, and faith. If this were simply a matter of faith, then I would say they are free to practice their faith, and I respect that right. But when it comes to someone governing the nation, it is another matter altogether. Now I am put in a position of making judgements about the person's logic and capacity for reason.

[LowlyPion]

Here's a Salon video report on Sarah Palin's Conservative Agenda.

http://www.salon.com/ent/video_dog/politics/2008/10/23/wp_religion/index.html?source=video&aim=/ent/video_dog/politics

[Ivan Seeking]

http://elections.foxnews.com/img/story/102308_robbery.jpg

PITTSBURGH -- Police are questioning several "inconsistencies" that have emerged in statements made by a woman claiming to be a John McCain volunteer who alleges she was robbed at knife point by an attacker who cut a "B" into her face after noticing a McCain bumper sticker on her car....
http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/10/23/mccain-volunteer-says-mugged-b-carved-face/

This afternoon, a Pittsburgh police commander told KDKA Investigator Marty Griffin that Todd confessed to making up the story...
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1008/McCain_volunteer_recants.html?showall

[LowlyPion]

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/10/23/mccain-volunteer-says-mugged-b-carved-face/

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1008/McCain_volunteer_recants.html?showall

Apparently she had mental problems and made it up.

But then she is a Palin supporter, so ...

[Ivan Seeking]

An interesting website: Sarah's Army

That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
http://sarahsarmy.blogspot.com/

Given that Sarah's party had power for ten years, I wonder why they would be citing the Declaration of Independence.

...I meant the Republicans, not the Alaskan Independence Party.

[baywax]

I am embarrassed that someone from above the 49th parallel is relying on small town charm to vie for such a big town position as Vice President of the United States. When "small, northern town charm" is manipulated in this way it is a front for "let's burn the witches and anything else that's not like us small town folk". These are the small town folks who wouldn't think twice about killing weeds (and everything else) with 24D or spreading small pox to make room for progress (historical account).

[Adeimantus]

Please feel free to list what you feel are more relevant objections. I guess for me, speaking in tongues crosses the line between irrational and delusional behavior, and faith. If this were simply a matter of faith, then I would say they are free to practice their faith, and I respect that right. But when it comes to someone governing the nation, it is another matter altogether. Now I am put in a position of making judgements about the person's logic and capacity for reason.

I agree with your assessment of speaking in tongues as it reflects on a person's suitability for high office, but I would extend that reasoning even further to anyone whose religious group claims to have had the purpose of the universe revealed to them in a book. Sounds pretty elitist of me, doesn't it? And that's the problem. It gives Palin's supporters the opportunity to say, "Well, there they go again, those liberal elites poking fun at our small-town, hard-working, patriotic, real-American ways." And with that they distract attention from their more alarming intentions.

This video is a good start:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naXqE4dTxPA

The first 4 minutes is relevant...everything after that is humorous but irrelevant and kinda stupid. I also take slight issue with the title of video. These are not your average pentecostals.

[Ivan Seeking]

I agree with your assessment of speaking in tongues as it reflects on a person's suitability for high office, but I would extend that reasoning even further to anyone whose religious group claims to have had the purpose of the universe revealed to them in a book.

One can make a logical leap of faith, but there are limits; beyond which one has to reject rational thought and accept anything or everything on faith. At that point a person could believe just about anything. That's why we get groups like Heaven's Gate, and the folks at Jonestown... and people who think Alaska was mentioned in prophesy.

[Adeimantus]

These two videos have the advantage of being unedited and free from propaganda....well, except for the last 20 sec of the second one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QG1vPYbRB7k&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k84m2orSOaM&NR=1

[Adeimantus]

Here's an article that is useful mainly because at the end of it is a short summary of the NAR as well as links to other articles and videos. The info in the article itself is pretty bizarre, too, although it tends toward speculation about Palin's direct involvement in a witch hunt. A little sensationalist IMO.

http://www.talk2action.org/story/2008/10/24/125017/31

In Short: The New Apostolic Reformation and the Third Wave
The New Apostolic Reformation is a recently institutionalized Protestant sect that emerged from specific Pentecostal and Charismatic movements, sometimes referred to collectively as the Third Wave. These are revivals of a 1940s and 1950s movement named as a heresy by the Assemblies of God at that time. The New Apostolic Reformation can now be defined as a distinct movement with a unique theology. The central figure in the movement, C. Peter Wagner has organized the sect structure and defined its primary theology. He declared 2001 as the beginning of the new Apostolic Age. Wagner's extensive Apostolic network includes 500 Apostles from the U.S. and 42 other countries, each with their own network of churches and ministries, some with hundreds or even thousands. This network is interconnected with other Apostolic networks around the world who share media, conferences, schools, and training, and revivals.


The major tenets of the adherents of this sect include the belief that we are living in the final years before the return of Christ. However, they differ from other Fundamentalist Protestants in their belief that they must defeat evil on the earth and purify the existing churches before Jesus can return. Furthermore, the building of this "Kingdom of God" is not to be delayed until after the Rapture, or to be built in a heavenly sphere. They believe that they have a mandate to build the Kingdom in the present and in the physical realm. In preparation for this task, this final generation is being "imparted" with special supernatural gifts of the Holy Spirit that will allow them to wage spiritual warfare and take control of the earth from the devil and an array of demons. The mandate for building the Kingdom includes their current Seven Mountains strategy for the taking control over government, arts and entertainment, media, education, family, religion, and business.


This effort includes extensive mission work around the globe featuring their well developed spiritual warfare strategies which have been published in books and videos. The goal of these spiritual warfare tactics is to take cities and communities from the territorial demons that control theses geographic areas and that they believe prevent their efforts in planting their own Apostolic churches. Spiritual warfare around the globe includes the goal of taking control of cities through the expulsion of witches and demons, and the conversion of Roman Catholics, Jews, Muslims, and all other religions. They also believe that there must be a civil war in the Protestant church during this "Third Reformation" in order for them to purify that institution before Jesus can return. The movement has an extensive focus on youth, with several leaders specifically prophesying that those born after 1973 are to be the trainers and warriors for God's army.

[baywax]

Thankfully I am as ignorant about religious doctrine as Sarah is about the Bush doctrine... if not more so.

I do know that some of these religions are Vampiric in nature with all the blood drinking and flesh eating at an alter.

But there is this little known photo of their Pope at another, more passive type of alter...somewhere in Dublin...

here it is now...