Obama comments on religion

[phoenixy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odsDYodanxQ

This video looks old but I just got the chance to see it. After 8 years of fundamentalism meddling in American politics, it is refreshing to see the divide between church and state will be renewed.

[LightbulbSun]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odsDYodanxQ

This video looks old but I just got the chance to see it. After 8 years of fundamentalism meddling in American politics, it is refreshing to see the divide between church and state will be renewed.

Full video of speech (http://link.brightcove.com/services/link/bcpid1185304443/bctid416343938).

[Cyrus]

This is fantastic stuff.

[kasse]

I sometimes wonder if Obama is really a Christian, or if he is just pretending to even stand a chance in the election?

[Ivan Seeking]

I sometimes wonder if Obama is really a Christian, or if he is just pretending to even stand a chance in the election?

I often wonder if anyone really wonders this, or if it is just way to reconcile the fact that this is a primarily a country populated by people of faith - including most of our greatest leaders.

[LightbulbSun]

I often wonder if anyone really wonders this, or if it is just way to reconcile the fact that this is a primarily a country populated by people of faith.

I have my doubts about the authenticity of his professed faith. He grew up in a family that at best was spiritual, but was still critical of organized religion, as he pointed out in his speech. It's very likely his faith is for political show.

[kasse]

I agree with Lightbulb. Obama is obviously extremely intelligent. Intelligent people tend to believe in things for which there is evidence. I think he is a non-believer.

[LightbulbSun]

He's obviously extremely intelligent. Intelligent people tend to believe in things for which there is evidence. I think he is a non-believer.

That's not true at all. Intelligence is not immune from belief. There have been a lot of smart people that believed in irrational things over the course of history. Francis Collins would be one example.

[kasse]

I didn't say immune, I said they tend to. There's a reason why most American scientists are nonbelievers, while 90% of the general population are religious. The reason is that scientists tend to be rational, and therefore care about evidence :smile:

[physics girl phd]

I sometimes wonder if Obama is really a Christian, or if he is just pretending to even stand a chance in the election?

I quite frankly don't care, but I DO think Barack needs to quickly fly down to NC and pray with Billy Graham pronto after the inauguration.

[Hurkyl]

I agree with Lightbulb. Obama is obviously extremely intelligent. Intelligent people tend to believe in things for which there is evidence. I think he is a non-believer.
Ah, the old "If you don't believe what I do, you must not be thinking clearly" argument?

[NeoDevin]

The important issue is not whether or not he believes in this or that god or some other guy, but that he believes and understands the separation of church and state.

[LowlyPion]

I didn't say immune, I said they tend to. There's a reason why most American scientists are nonbelievers, while 90% of the general population are religious. The reason is that scientists tend to be rational, and therefore care about evidence :smile:

I think you take a rather over simplified view of things.

While it may be true that among those inclined toward the Scientific Method that literalism may not be unquestioningly embraced, it doesn't really do justice to the landscape to suggest that rational thinkers do not embrace Faith nor be inclined to incorporate Faith based axioms in their own principles of being about in the world and interrelating with others.

[wildman]

I sometimes wonder if Obama is really a Christian, or if he is just pretending to even stand a chance in the election?

State Christians like James Dobson are in my opinion very destructive to the Christian faith. Mr. Obama understands this. To say that he is not a Christian because he wants to keep state and church separate is to twist the words of the Bible. Both Paul and Jesus were very clear on separation of church and state. Jesus never concerned himself with the political society and when the Jewish leaders tried to trick him into concerning himself, he answered: "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar and to God the things that are God's".

The church in Europe is almost dead due to the twisting together of church and state. Combining the two is destructive to both.

[Alfi]

Full video of speech (http://link.brightcove.com/services/link/bcpid1185304443/bctid416343938).

Nice. I'm glad I could listen to the entire speech. Thank you.

[Gokul43201]

I often wonder if anyone really wonders this, or if it is just way to reconcile the fact that this is a primarily a country populated by people of faith - including most of our greatest leaders.Great leaders like Washington, Franklin, Jefferson, Adams, and Madison, or great leaders like Huckabee, Romney, Brownback, Buchanan and Jindal?

[arildno]

Great leaders like Washington, Franklin, Jefferson, Adams, and Madison, or great leaders like Huckabee, Romney, Brownback, Buchanan and Jindal?
Somehow, you forgot Ms. Palin in that list, Gokul..

[CaptainQuasar]

Oh, wow. How utterly awesome. Y'know, I try to keep my expectations for Obama from getting out of hand, but it's things like this which just send me over the top. This is the kind of profound thing I'll look for opportunities to quote from in the future the way people do with Jefferson or Franklin.

I've mentioned many times on PF that I'm an atheist and there are things I find fundamentally incomprehensible and alien about religion. But I think that what some of you guys are saying here - as Hurkyl points out, the suggestion that religion is fundamentally incompatible with rationality - is completely and totally contrary to Obama's central message and contrary to what this country needs, unity and solidarity in challenging times.

I'm inclined to believe that it must be because you just haven't really bothered to get to know very many religious people. Some of the deepest thinkers I've met, the most rational individuals I've had the pleasure to know, have been religious, some of them priests and ministers. I have no trouble at all believing that Obama is genuinely a Christian.⚛

[WarPhalange]

I sometimes wonder if Obama is really a Christian, or if he is just pretending to even stand a chance in the election?

I'm willing to be he's just pretending or because he grew up with it. I mean, do you really think McCain supports the kind of fundamentalist nuts he tried to get the support of? No, of course not and he's even said so himself. And I don't remember him talking about faith at all during the election now that I think about it. Good for him.

Same with Hillary Clinton. When she was criticizing the whole Wright affair, I was thinking "No way this woman actually believes in God." I just can't see her going to church and not chuckling to herself.

I think it's pretty common these days for politicians to either be atheists or just not care but still have to pretend to be Christian to get votes.

We'll have a black president shortly (or at least half-black), but I still can't imagine a president who would say "No, I don't believe in God". I mean, atheists are the most distrusted "minority" in the US (http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=1786422&page=1).

Hopefully Obama can at least bring back separation of Church and State. He won't dare to look like he isn't 100% Christian, since there are already those who think he's a Muslim (lots of people can't tell the difference. Not Christian = devil) or the Anti-Christ incarnate. It will take a different president to finally make it okay to have whatever religious views you want, though.

[OmCheeto]

State Christians like James Dobson are in my opinion very destructive to the Christian faith. Mr. Obama understands this. To say that he is not a Christian because he wants to keep state and church separate is to twist the words of the Bible. Both Paul and Jesus were very clear on separation of church and state. Jesus never concerned himself with the political society and when the Jewish leaders tried to trick him into concerning himself, he answered: "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar and to God the things that are God's".

The church in Europe is almost dead due to the twisting together of church and state. Combining the two is destructive to both.

Word for word what I would say.

Atheists didn't cause me to lose my faith in the church. The church did that. People who don't understand their own religion are the churches worst enemies.

I researched Obama's voting record in the senate last year and found that he and I have very similar political opinions. It's nice to know that we both share similar religious views. Perhaps the fact that we are almost the same age explains why we appear to come from the same mold. I'd be interested in seeing the age group stats, 46-48, for people that voted for and against him.

And for the record, I'm still a deist. You atheists will never convince me that these voices inside my head are my own.

[Greg Bernhardt]

Hopefully Obama can at least bring back separation of Church and State. He won't dare to look like he isn't 100% Christian, since there are already those who think he's a Muslim (lots of people can't tell the difference. Not Christian = devil) or the Anti-Christ incarnate. It will take a different president to finally make it okay to have whatever religious views you want, though.

I was in a car with two friends yesterday who were seriously arguing whether Obama is the anti-christ. My mind was ready to explode.

[montoyas7940]

the most rational individuals I've had the pleasure to know, have been religious, some of them priests and ministers.[/RIGHT]

I have often thought it completely rational to hold a belief that feels good. I just don't think it should be declared "TRUTH".

[WarPhalange]

I was in a car with two friends yesterday who were seriously arguing whether Obama is the anti-christ. My mind was ready to explode.


I know. I was being serious when I wrote that. Isn't it insane?

Especially since the Bible says nobody will be able to predict the End of Days. But oh no, these guys know.

[Helios]

I was in a car with two friends yesterday who were seriously arguing whether Obama is the anti-christ. My mind was ready to explode.

If Obama had lost the election, then that would be proof that he's not the anti-christ. Since he won, the verdict is still out. The true anti-christ can win any election with his evil magic powers.

[Cyrus]

If Obama had lost the election, then that would be proof that he's not the anti-christ. Since he won, the verdict is still out. The true anti-christ can win any election with his evil magic powers.

That Obama, always 'palling around' with anti-christs.

[Helios]

and Nostradamus predicts the coming of "a dark Muslim" named Mabus.
OBA(MA), (B)ARACK H(US)SEIN = MABUS
Oooo..

[CaptainQuasar]

Don't forget the Satanist fist bump. I can imagine that in a Mel Brooks movie.⚛

[john16O]

Well, I'm not going to do that. But if you want your money, I would be more than willing to pay up. On friday nights my friends and I usually go to fed hill. It would not be a hassle...

[montoyas7940]

I sometimes wonder if Obama is really a Christian, or if he is just pretending to even stand a chance in the election?

Does it really matter? If he is committed to doing a good job, is ethical and has integrity we are easily as well off as we ever were.

I always prefer, however, that the congress and the presidency be split. It seems less damage is done that way.

[CaptainQuasar]

Does it really matter? If he is committed to doing a good job, is ethical and has integrity we are easily as well off as we ever were.

I always prefer, however, that the congress and the presidency be split. It seems less damage is done that way.

Even though I think Obama may well be exactly as Christian as he says, I totally agree with you that it doesn't matter practically. It would be a little bit of living a lie, but he's a politician and he's got to do some of that to play the game. I've certainly considered doing the same sort of thing myself, when I've had a relationship with religious women and she wants to raise any possible children of hers as Christians.

(I think I could put on a pretty good devout Christian act, too... I've almost been gunnin' to try sometimes. AMEN BROTHAS! TESTIFY! Heh heh, I would have to steer away from doing anything too corny.)⚛

[noumed]

whens the last time you saw 10s of thousands of people like that only hours after he has been name president elect?
When's the last time you saw a half-black president-elect?

[CaptainQuasar]

Well, I'm not going to do that. But if you want your money, I would be more than willing to pay up. On friday nights my friends and I usually go to fed hill. It would not be a hassle...

I just noticed this. If this isn't a joke, and you guys both live in the same vicinity it's kind of creepy that you're asking Cyrus to meet you somewhere at night. Unless the two of you already know each other personally.

If that's just a joke... you really might impress people more with your Christianity by fulfilling your oaths / bets. 'Cause y'know, I know of someone else who didn't fulfill his oaths, who denied Christ three times before the cock crowed...⚛

[Evo]

The thread keeps straying into discussions of religion. Locked.