View Full Version : Bosonization
Igor Khavkine
May26-04, 05:12 AM
<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','toolbar=no, location=no,scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no ,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usenet ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>\n\nI am trying to come to grips with bosonization. This is an equivalence\nbetween some fermionic and bosonic field theories in 1+1 dimensions.\nA precise example from relativistic field theory is the Thirring model,\nwhich is equivalent to the sine-Gordon model. Another example from\ncondensed matter theory is the Luttinger model (a fudged up 1D electron\ngas), which is equivalent to the 1D bosonic field.\n\nI think I\'ve got a fair understanding of the concepts and the\ntricks involved in the calculation, but I would like to clear up some\ntechnical issues.\n\nConceptually, paired fermions correspond to bosonic excitations, while\nkink-like solitons in the bosonic theory correspond to fermions.\n\nThe technically tricky part is constructing the soliton creation and\nannihilation operators from the boson field operators. The idea is\nto decompose the boson field (in the Heisenberg picture) into its\nleft and right moving components\n\nphi(x,t) = phi_L(x+vt) + phi_R(x-vt) .\n\nThe same can be done with fermion field operators psi_L and psi_R. Then,\nset psi_{L,R} ~ exp(i a phi_{L,R}), where the proportionality constant and\na are determined by requiring that psi_{L,R} satisfy the proper\nanti-commuration relations. However, to avoid infinities, the exponential\nmust be normal ordered (all creation operators are manually moved to the\nleft the annihilation operators to the right).\n\nIt is fairly easy to show that as constructed, the fermion operators\npsi(x) and psi*(x\') (* is read dagger) anticommute at equal times\nwhen x != x\'. However to show that\n\n{psi(x),psi*(x\')} = delta(x-x\'), (*)\n\nall the references I\'ve looked at claim that it is equivalent to show\nthat [n(x),psi(y)] = delta(x-y) psi(x), where n(x) = psi*(x)psi(x).\nWhy is the last equality equivalent to (*)? Is it possible to show that\n(*) holds directly?\n\nI\'m also confused about the issue of normal ordering. I see that it is\nnecessary to remove singularities that otherwise appear in products of\noperators at nearby spacetime points. I would be happy if normal\nordering appeared only in the definition of the constructed fermion\nfield operators. However, it seems that all operators built out of the\nfermions need to be further normal ordered. I would imagine that if I\ncould identify the ground states of the fermion and boson theories, as\nwell as build fermion operators with the right anticommutation relations,\nthen I would be able to construct the fermion Fock space and re-express\nall operators in the fermion theory using bosons. So how does normal\nordering fit into this picture?\n\nAlso, a good reference would also be appreciated. The references I\'ve\nfound were helpful to some degree, but their expositions are not entirely\nclear to me. But this may be because they assume some background knowledge\nthat I am not aware of.\n\nThanks in advance.\n\nIgor\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form"> View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky>I am trying to come to grips with bosonization. This is an equivalence
between some fermionic and bosonic field theories in 1+1 dimensions.
A precise example from relativistic field theory is the Thirring model,
which is equivalent to the sine-Gordon model. Another example from
condensed matter theory is the Luttinger model (a fudged up 1D electron
gas), which is equivalent to the 1D bosonic field.
I think I've got a fair understanding of the concepts and the
tricks involved in the calculation, but I would like to clear up some
technical issues.
Conceptually, paired fermions correspond to bosonic excitations, while
kink-like solitons in the bosonic theory correspond to fermions.
The technically tricky part is constructing the soliton creation and
annihilation operators from the boson field operators. The idea is
to decompose the boson field (in the Heisenberg picture) into its
left and right moving components
\phi(x,t) = \phi_L(x+vt) + \phi_R(x-vt) .
The same can be done with fermion field operators \psi_L and \psi_R. Then,
set \psi_{L,R} ~ \exp(i a \phi_{L,R}), where the proportionality constant and
a are determined by requiring that \psi_{L,R} satisfy the proper
anti-commuration relations. However, to avoid infinities, the exponential
must be normal ordered (all creation operators are manually moved to the
left the annihilation operators to the right).
It is fairly easy to show that as constructed, the fermion operators
\psi(x) and \psi*(x') (* is read dagger) anticommute at equal times
when x != x'. However to show that
{\psi(x),\psi*(x')} = \delta(x-x'), (*)
all the references I've looked at claim that it is equivalent to show
that [n(x),\psi(y)] = \delta(x-y) \psi(x), where n(x) = \psi*(x)\psi(x).
Why is the last equality equivalent to (*)? Is it possible to show that
(*) holds directly?
I'm also confused about the issue of normal ordering. I see that it is
necessary to remove singularities that otherwise appear in products of
operators at nearby spacetime points. I would be happy if normal
ordering appeared only in the definition of the constructed fermion
field operators. However, it seems that all operators built out of the
fermions need to be further normal ordered. I would imagine that if I
could identify the ground states of the fermion and boson theories, as
well as build fermion operators with the right anticommutation relations,
then I would be able to construct the fermion Fock space and re-express
all operators in the fermion theory using bosons. So how does normal
ordering fit into this picture?
Also, a good reference would also be appreciated. The references I've
found were helpful to some degree, but their expositions are not entirely
clear to me. But this may be because they assume some background knowledge
that I am not aware of.
Thanks in advance.
Igor
Urs Schreiber
May26-04, 05:51 AM
<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','toolbar=no, location=no,scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no ,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usenet ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>\n"Igor Khavkine" <k_igor_k@lycos.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag\nnews:pan.2004.05.25.21.43.57.237197@l ycos.com...\n\n> I am trying to come to grips with bosonization. This is an equivalence\n[...]\n> Also, a good reference would also be appreciated. The references I\'ve\n\nDid you have a look at section 12.3 of\n\nDi Francesco & Mathieu & Senechal:\nConformal Field Theory\nSpringer (1996)\n\nor at section 10.3 of Polchinki\'s second volume?\n\nUsing the CFT language the question concerning the bracket of the bosonized\nfermions is answered rather easily by using the standard rules, as in\nequation (10.3.6) in Polchinki\'s book.\n\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form"> View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky>"Igor Khavkine" <k_{igor_k}@lycos.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:pan.2004.05.25.21.43.57.237197@lycos.com...
> I am trying to come to grips with bosonization. This is an equivalence
[...]
> Also, a good reference would also be appreciated. The references I've
Did you have a look at section 12.3 of
Di Francesco & Mathieu & Senechal:
Conformal Field Theory
Springer (1996)
or at section 10.3 of Polchinki's second volume?
Using the CFT language the question concerning the bracket of the bosonized
fermions is answered rather easily by using the standard rules, as in
equation (10.3.6) in Polchinki's book.
Igor Khavkine
May29-04, 11:55 AM
<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','toolbar=no, location=no,scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no ,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usenet ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>"Urs Schreiber" <Urs.Schreiber@uni-essen.de> wrote in message news:<40b476b4\\$1@news.sentex.net>...\n> "Igor Khavkine" <k_igor_k@lycos.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag\n> news:pan.2004.05.25.21.43.57.237197@lycos.com...\n >\n> > I am trying to come to grips with bosonization. This is an equivalence\n> [...]\n> > Also, a good reference would also be appreciated. The references I\'ve\n>\n> Did you have a look at section 12.3 of\n>\n> Di Francesco & Mathieu & Senechal:\n> Conformal Field Theory\n> Springer (1996)\n>\n> or at section 10.3 of Polchinki\'s second volume?\n>\n> Using the CFT language the question concerning the bracket of the bosonized\n> fermions is answered rather easily by using the standard rules, as in\n> equation (10.3.6) in Polchinki\'s book.\n\nI\'ve taken a look at these sections, and they seem rather opaque to me.\nThis is most probably because I know next to nothing about conformal\nfield theory. Is understanding some conformal field theory necessary\nto understand bosonization?\n\nThanks.\n\nIgor\n\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form"> View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky>"Urs Schreiber" <Urs.Schreiber@uni-essen.de> wrote in message news:<40b476b4$1@news.sentex.net>...
> "Igor Khavkine" <k_{igor_k}@lycos.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> news:pan.2004.05.25.21.43.57.237197@lycos.com...
>
> > I am trying to come to grips with bosonization. This is an equivalence
> [...]
> > Also, a good reference would also be appreciated. The references I've
>
> Did you have a look at section 12.3 of
>
> Di Francesco & Mathieu & Senechal:
> Conformal Field Theory
> Springer (1996)
>
> or at section 10.3 of Polchinki's second volume?
>
> Using the CFT language the question concerning the bracket of the bosonized
> fermions is answered rather easily by using the standard rules, as in
> equation (10.3.6) in Polchinki's book.
I've taken a look at these sections, and they seem rather opaque to me.
This is most probably because I know next to nothing about conformal
field theory. Is understanding some conformal field theory necessary
to understand bosonization?
Thanks.
Igor
Urs Schreiber
May31-04, 08:34 AM
<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','toolbar=no, location=no,scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no ,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usenet ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>\n"Igor Khavkine" <k_igor_k@lycos.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag\nnews:f1ac2e6e.0405260848.2c6407cd@pos ting.google.com...\n\n> I\'ve taken a look at these sections, and they seem rather opaque to me.\n> This is most probably because I know next to nothing about conformal\n> field theory. Is understanding some conformal field theory necessary\n> to understand bosonization?\n\nI don\'t know if it is necessary, probably one can do without, if one wants\nto. But your question indicates that some steps may look unduely difficult\nwithout the CFT language.\n\nUnderstanding just the elements of bosonization in CFT language, as on p.11\nof the second volume of Polchinki\'s book, does not require many details of\nCFT theory. It suffices to know how the operator product expansion works and\nhow commutators translate into contour integrals to answer the question\nconcerning the fermion anticommutator that you asked. So if you don\'t have\nto work through all of the Francesco et al. book to understand that! :-)\n\nRecently, in the context of our introductors string theory seminar\nhttp://golem.ph.utexas.edu/string/archives/000327.html#c001052\nI have taken the time to type a brief summary of some basic (very basic, in\nfact) concepts of CFT, mostly summarising some parts of Polchinski and\nFrancesco et al. Maybe these notes might help you to get a quick\nacquaintance with the techniques needed to understand bosonization in CFT\nlanguage:\nhttp://www-stud.uni-essen.de/~sb0264/CFT.pdf .\n\n\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form"> View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky>"Igor Khavkine" <k_{igor_k}@lycos.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:f1ac2e6e.0405260848.2c6407cd@posting.google.c om...
> I've taken a look at these sections, and they seem rather opaque to me.
> This is most probably because I know next to nothing about conformal
> field theory. Is understanding some conformal field theory necessary
> to understand bosonization?
I don't know if it is necessary, probably one can do without, if one wants
to. But your question indicates that some steps may look unduely difficult
without the CFT language.
Understanding just the elements of bosonization in CFT language, as on p.11
of the second volume of Polchinki's book, does not require many details of
CFT theory. It suffices to know how the operator product expansion works and
how commutators translate into contour integrals to answer the question
concerning the fermion anticommutator that you asked. So if you don't have
to work through all of the Francesco et al. book to understand that! :-)
Recently, in the context of our introductors string theory seminar
http://golem.ph.utexas.edu/string/archives/000327.html#c001052
I have taken the time to type a brief summary of some basic (very basic, in
fact) concepts of CFT, mostly summarising some parts of Polchinski and
Francesco et al. Maybe these notes might help you to get a quick
acquaintance with the techniques needed to understand bosonization in CFT
language:
http://www-stud.uni-essen.de/~sb0264/CFT.pdf .
Igor Khavkine
Jun28-04, 12:10 PM
<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','toolbar=no, location=no,scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no ,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usenet ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>\n\n\nIgor Khavkine <k_igor_k@lycos.com> wrote in message news:<pan.2004.05.25.21.43.57.237197@lycos.com>... \n> I am trying to come to grips with bosonization. This is an equivalence\n> between some fermionic and bosonic field theories in 1+1 dimensions.\n> A precise example from relativistic field theory is the Thirring model,\n> which is equivalent to the sine-Gordon model. Another example from\n> condensed matter theory is the Luttinger model (a fudged up 1D electron\n> gas), which is equivalent to the 1D bosonic field.\n>\n> I think I\'ve got a fair understanding of the concepts and the\n> tricks involved in the calculation, but I would like to clear up some\n> technical issues.\n\nSince I last posted, I think I\'ve managed to clear up most of the\nquestions I had about bosonization by following up references.\nIn particular, cond-mat/9805275 has been very helpful, where an\nexplicit operator and Fock space equivalence between the fermionic\nand bosonic theories is established. However, some murky issues still\nremain.\n\n> I\'m also confused about the issue of normal ordering. I see that it is\n> necessary to remove singularities that otherwise appear in products of\n> operators at nearby spacetime points. I would be happy if normal\n> ordering appeared only in the definition of the constructed fermion\n> field operators. However, it seems that all operators built out of the\n> fermions need to be further normal ordered. I would imagine that if I\n> could identify the ground states of the fermion and boson theories, as\n> well as build fermion operators with the right anticommutation relations,\n> then I would be able to construct the fermion Fock space and re-express\n> all operators in the fermion theory using bosons. So how does normal\n> ordering fit into this picture?\n\nFirst, part of my confusion in the above has been aleviated. The reason\nnormal ordering is necessary is to regularize and eliminate some\ndivergences that arise in some ground state expectation values. The\nsimplest example is the infinite charge density or energy contributed\nto the vacuum by the "Dirac sea" when the Dirac field is quantized.\n\nNow, I\'ve seen many claims about normal ordering in the literature, and\nit is not obvious to me that they are equivalent or follow one another.\nHere are the normal ordering prescriptions that I\'ve run into:\n\nA,B,C,... -- field creation and annihilation operators\n\nOperator commutation:\n: ABC... : = same product but with all creation (annihilation)\noperators manualy moved to the left (right)\n\nSubtracting the ground state expectation value:\n: ABC... : = ABC... - <ABC...>\nwhere <...> denotes the ground state expectation value\n\nPoint splitting:\n: A(x)B(x) : = lim{a->0} A(x+a)B(x) - <A(x+a)B(x)>\nthis prescription seems to be related operator product\nexpansions, but I have not yet been able to penetrate\nall the hype surrounding them\n\nOne claim is that the vacuum expectation value of a normal ordered operator\nis 0. This is easy to accept given any of the above prescriptions. Another\nclaim is that ALL matrix elements of normal ordered operators are finite.\nMoreover, it is claimed that the normal ordered operator :A(x)B(y)C(z)...:\nis well enough behaved when some of the coordinates coincide so that\nwe can take its derivatives.\n\nIt is not clear to me how the last two claims follow from the definition\nof normal ordering. Any insight would be appreciated.\n\nThanks in advance.\n\nIgor\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form"> View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky>Igor Khavkine <k_{igor_k}@lycos.com> wrote in message news:<pan.2004.05.25.21.43.57.237197@lycos.com>...
> I am trying to come to grips with bosonization. This is an equivalence
> between some fermionic and bosonic field theories in 1+1 dimensions.
> A precise example from relativistic field theory is the Thirring model,
> which is equivalent to the sine-Gordon model. Another example from
> condensed matter theory is the Luttinger model (a fudged up 1D electron
> gas), which is equivalent to the 1D bosonic field.
>
> I think I've got a fair understanding of the concepts and the
> tricks involved in the calculation, but I would like to clear up some
> technical issues.
Since I last posted, I think I've managed to clear up most of the
questions I had about bosonization by following up references.
In particular, http://www.arxiv.org/abs/cond-mat/9805275 has been very helpful, where an
explicit operator and Fock space equivalence between the fermionic
and bosonic theories is established. However, some murky issues still
remain.
> I'm also confused about the issue of normal ordering. I see that it is
> necessary to remove singularities that otherwise appear in products of
> operators at nearby spacetime points. I would be happy if normal
> ordering appeared only in the definition of the constructed fermion
> field operators. However, it seems that all operators built out of the
> fermions need to be further normal ordered. I would imagine that if I
> could identify the ground states of the fermion and boson theories, as
> well as build fermion operators with the right anticommutation relations,
> then I would be able to construct the fermion Fock space and re-express
> all operators in the fermion theory using bosons. So how does normal
> ordering fit into this picture?
First, part of my confusion in the above has been aleviated. The reason
normal ordering is necessary is to regularize and eliminate some
divergences that arise in some ground state expectation values. The
simplest example is the infinite charge density or energy contributed
to the vacuum by the "Dirac sea" when the Dirac field is quantized.
Now, I've seen many claims about normal ordering in the literature, and
it is not obvious to me that they are equivalent or follow one another.
Here are the normal ordering prescriptions that I've run into:
A,B,C,... -- field creation and annihilation operators
Operator commutation:
: ABC... : = same product but with all creation (annihilation)
operators manualy moved to the left (right)
Subtracting the ground state expectation value:
: ABC... : = ABC... - <ABC...>
where <...> denotes the ground state expectation value
Point splitting:
: A(x)B(x) : = lim{a->0} A(x+a)B(x) - <A(x+a)B(x)>
this prescription seems to be related operator product
expansions, but I have not yet been able to penetrate
all the hype surrounding them
One claim is that the vacuum expectation value of a normal ordered operator
is . This is easy to accept given any of the above prescriptions. Another
claim is that ALL matrix elements of normal ordered operators are finite.
Moreover, it is claimed that the normal ordered operator :A(x)B(y)C(z)...:
is well enough behaved when some of the coordinates coincide so that
we can take its derivatives.
It is not clear to me how the last two claims follow from the definition
of normal ordering. Any insight would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
Igor
Arnold Neumaier
Jun29-04, 05:49 PM
<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','toolbar=no, location=no,scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no ,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usenet ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>Igor Khavkine wrote:\n\n> Now, I\'ve seen many claims about normal ordering in the literature, and\n> it is not obvious to me that they are equivalent or follow one another.\n> Here are the normal ordering prescriptions that I\'ve run into:\n>\n> A,B,C,... -- field creation and annihilation operators\n>\n> Operator commutation:\n> : ABC... : = same product but with all creation (annihilation)\n> operators manualy moved to the left (right)\n\nThis is always valid.\n\n\n> Subtracting the ground state expectation value:\n> : ABC... : = ABC... - <ABC...> (*)\n> where <...> denotes the ground state expectation value\n\nThis is invalid (except, for two c/a operators, in a formal sense\nthat needs for interpretation the limit below),\nsince a(x)a^*(x) is not a well-defined object (Exercise: Try to give it\na meaning as a linear operator on a space of your choice - this will fail),\nhence the right hand side is meaningless.\n\nIf people write things like (*) they think in terms of discrete space\nand taking a tacit continuum limit in the end. But even then (*) is\nwrong for more than two factors.\n\n\n> Point splitting:\n> : A(x)B(x) : = lim{a->0} A(x+a)B(x) - <A(x+a)B(x)>\n\nThis is a correct version of interpreting (*) for c/a operators A,B\n(and C...=1). But it does not give a description for :ABC:, if A,B,C\nare c/a operators.\n\n\n> One claim is that the vacuum expectation value of a normal ordered\n> operator is 0.\n\nYes. Vacuum expectation values are defined _only_ for power series in\nthe a(x),a^*(x) with all terms in normally ordered form, and then they\nare defined as their constant term.\n\n\nArnold Neumaier\n\n\n\n\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form"> View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky>Igor Khavkine wrote:
> Now, I've seen many claims about normal ordering in the literature, and
> it is not obvious to me that they are equivalent or follow one another.
> Here are the normal ordering prescriptions that I've run into:
>
> A,B,C,... -- field creation and annihilation operators
>
> Operator commutation:
> : ABC... : = same product but with all creation (annihilation)
> operators manualy moved to the left (right)
This is always valid.
> Subtracting the ground state expectation value:
> : ABC... : = ABC... - <ABC...> (*)
> where <...> denotes the ground state expectation value
This is invalid (except, for two c/a operators, in a formal sense
that needs for interpretation the limit below),
since a(x)a^*(x) is not a well-defined object (Exercise: Try to give it
a meaning as a linear operator on a space of your choice - this will fail),
hence the right hand side is meaningless.
If people write things like (*) they think in terms of discrete space
and taking a tacit continuum limit in the end. But even then (*) is
wrong for more than two factors.
> Point splitting:
> : A(x)B(x) : = lim{a->0} A(x+a)B(x) - <A(x+a)B(x)>
This is a correct version of interpreting (*) for c/a operators A,B
(and C...=1). But it does not give a description for :ABC:, if A,B,C
are c/a operators.
> One claim is that the vacuum expectation value of a normal ordered
> operator is .
Yes. Vacuum expectation values are defined _only_ for power series in
the a(x),a^*(x) with all terms in normally ordered form, and then they
are defined as their constant term.
Arnold Neumaier
Igor Khavkine
Jun30-04, 05:40 PM
<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','toolbar=no, location=no,scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no ,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usenet ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>Arnold Neumaier <Arnold.Neumaier@univie.ac.at> wrote in message news:<cbsrmd\\$dkq\\$1@lfa222122.richmond.edu>...\ n> Igor Khavkine wrote:\n>\n> > Now, I\'ve seen many claims about normal ordering in the literature, and\n> > it is not obvious to me that they are equivalent or follow one another.\n> > Here are the normal ordering prescriptions that I\'ve run into:\n> >\n> > A,B,C,... -- field creation and annihilation operators\n> >\n> > Operator commutation:\n> > : ABC... : = same product but with all creation (annihilation)\n> > operators manualy moved to the left (right)\n>\n> This is always valid.\n>\n> > Subtracting the ground state expectation value:\n> > : ABC... : = ABC... - <ABC...> (*)\n> > where <...> denotes the ground state expectation value\n>\n> This is invalid (except, for two c/a operators, in a formal sense\n> that needs for interpretation the limit below),\n> since a(x)a^*(x) is not a well-defined object (Exercise: Try to give it\n> a meaning as a linear operator on a space of your choice - this will fail),\n> hence the right hand side is meaningless.\n>\n> If people write things like (*) they think in terms of discrete space\n> and taking a tacit continuum limit in the end. But even then (*) is\n> wrong for more than two factors.\n\nI\'ve been bothered by this for a while. If you are given an operator\nO on the Fock space of a field theory. How does one determine its\nnormal ordered version :O: without knowing explicity its expression\nin terms of c/a operators. If every operator on the Fock space\nwere experessible in terms of c/a operators and there were an algorithm\nfor obtaining this explicit expression given O, then there would be\nno problem with defining normal ordering by `Operator commutation\'.\nOtherwise, it seems that this prescription is only valid for the\nclass of operators which are explicitly expressible in terms of\nc/a operators.\n\nCan normal ordering be defined for O given only the operator itself,\nthe Fock space, the inner product, and the ground state?\n\n> > One claim is that the vacuum expectation value of a normal ordered\n> > operator is 0.\n>\n> Yes. Vacuum expectation values are defined _only_ for power series in\n> the a(x),a^*(x) with all terms in normally ordered form, and then they\n> are defined as their constant term.\n\nHow about matrix elements between two basis elements of the Fock space?\nEven if the operator itself is normal ordered, the matrix element\ncan be expressed as a vacuum expecation value with some annihilation\noperators on the left and some creation operators on the right which\nresults in a non-normal ordered operator. Why is the matrix element\nthen garanteed to be finite?\n\nThanks in advance.\n\nIgor\n\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form"> View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky>Arnold Neumaier <Arnold.Neumaier@univie.ac.at> wrote in message news:<cbsrmd$dkq$1@lfa222122.richmond.edu>...
> Igor Khavkine wrote:
>
> > Now, I've seen many claims about normal ordering in the literature, and
> > it is not obvious to me that they are equivalent or follow one another.
> > Here are the normal ordering prescriptions that I've run into:
> >
> > A,B,C,... -- field creation and annihilation operators
> >
> > Operator commutation:
> > : ABC... : = same product but with all creation (annihilation)
> > operators manualy moved to the left (right)
>
> This is always valid.
>
> > Subtracting the ground state expectation value:
> > : ABC... : = ABC... - <ABC...> (*)
> > where <...> denotes the ground state expectation value
>
> This is invalid (except, for two c/a operators, in a formal sense
> that needs for interpretation the limit below),
> since a(x)a^*(x) is not a well-defined object (Exercise: Try to give it
> a meaning as a linear operator on a space of your choice - this will fail),
> hence the right hand side is meaningless.
>
> If people write things like (*) they think in terms of discrete space
> and taking a tacit continuum limit in the end. But even then (*) is
> wrong for more than two factors.
I've been bothered by this for a while. If you are given an operator
O on the Fock space of a field theory. How does one determine its
normal ordered version :O: without knowing explicity its expression
in terms of c/a operators. If every operator on the Fock space
were experessible in terms of c/a operators and there were an algorithm
for obtaining this explicit expression given O, then there would be
no problem with defining normal ordering by `Operator commutation'.
Otherwise, it seems that this prescription is only valid for the
class of operators which are explicitly expressible in terms of
c/a operators.
Can normal ordering be defined for O given only the operator itself,
the Fock space, the inner product, and the ground state?
> > One claim is that the vacuum expectation value of a normal ordered
> > operator is .
>
> Yes. Vacuum expectation values are defined _only_ for power series in
> the a(x),a^*(x) with all terms in normally ordered form, and then they
> are defined as their constant term.
How about matrix elements between two basis elements of the Fock space?
Even if the operator itself is normal ordered, the matrix element
can be expressed as a vacuum expecation value with some annihilation
operators on the left and some creation operators on the right which
results in a non-normal ordered operator. Why is the matrix element
then garanteed to be finite?
Thanks in advance.
Igor
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