View Full Version : Quantum State Diffusion question
chaverondier
May26-04, 05:12 AM
<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','toolbar=no, location=no,scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no ,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usenet ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>\n\nThe Quantum State Diffusion model of the individual evolution of open\nquantum systems introduced by Nicolas Gisin, Group of Applied Physics,\nUniversity of Geneva and Ian C Percival, Department of Physics, Queen\nMary and Westfield College, University of London (see for instance\nQuantum State Diffusion: from Foundations to Applications\nhttp://arxiv.org/abs/quant-ph/9701024 and Essay Review of Quantum\nState Diffusion by Ian Percival\nhttp://www.hpl.hp.com/techreports/2001/HPL-2001-7.pdf ) was motivated\nby a dynamical description of the measurement process. In this\napproach, the time evolution of the wavefunction |psi> of an\nindividual open quantum system is governed by the Ito stochastic\ndifferential equation\n\n|dpsi> = (-i/hbar) H |psi> dt\n+ sum_j [<L_j^ad> L_j – (1/2) L_j^ad L_j –(1/2) <L_j><L_j^ad>] |psi>\ndt ]\n+ sum_j [(L –<L_j>) |psi> dksi_j ]\n\n* where the L_j are the Lindblad operators modelling the\ninteractions of an individual quantum system in a shear state |psi>\nwith its environment\n* where L_j^ad denotes the adjoint Lindblad operator\n* where <L_j> = <psi |L_j| psi>\n* where H is the free Hamiltonian that would describe the evolution\nof this individual system if it were insulated\n* where the stochastic fluctuation or noise of the diffusion\nprocess is all contained in the standard normalized Wiener fluctuation\nterms dksi_j , which are of order (dt)^(1/2) and which satisfy the\nrelations\n<dksi_i dksi_j> = 0 <dksi_i dksi*_j> = delta_ij dt <dksi _j> =\n0\n* where dksi*_j denote the complex conjugate of dksi_j\n* where delta_ij denotes the delta Kronecker symbol\n\nMy question is that one.\n\nWhat are the quantum phenomena that give rise to the quantum noise\ndksi_j ?\n\nBernard Chaverondier\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form"> View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky>The Quantum State Diffusion model of the individual evolution of open
quantum systems introduced by Nicolas Gisin, Group of Applied Physics,
University of Geneva and Ian C Percival, Department of Physics, Queen
Mary and Westfield College, University of London (see for instance
Quantum State Diffusion: from Foundations to Applications
http://arxiv.org/abs/http://www.arxiv.org/abs/quant-ph/9701024 and Essay Review of Quantum
State Diffusion by Ian Percival
http://www.hpl.hp.com/techreports/2001/HPL-2001-7.pdf ) was motivated
by a dynamical description of the measurement process. In this
approach, the time evolution of the wavefunction |\psi> of an
individual open quantum system is governed by the Ito stochastic
differential equation
|dpsi> = (-i/\hbar) H |\psi> dt+ sum_j [<L_j^ad> L_j – (1/2) L_j^ad L_j –(1/2) <L_j><L_j^ad>] |\psi>dt ]+ sum_j [(L –<L_j>) |\psi> dksi_j ]
* where the L_j are the Lindblad operators modelling the
interactions of an individual quantum system in a shear state |\psi>
with its environment
* where L_j^ad denotes the adjoint Lindblad operator
* where <L_j> = <\psi |L_j| \psi>
* where H is the free Hamiltonian that would describe the evolution
of this individual system if it were insulated
* where the stochastic fluctuation or noise of the diffusion
process is all contained in the standard normalized Wiener fluctuation
terms dksi_j , which are of order (dt)^(1/2) and which satisfy the
relations
<dksi_i dksi_j> =<dksi_i dksi*_j> = \delta_ij dt <dksi _j> =
* where dksi*_j denote the complex conjugate of dksi_j
* where \delta_ij denotes the \delta Kronecker symbol
My question is that one.
What are the quantum phenomena that give rise to the quantum noise
dksi_j ?
Bernard Chaverondier
Arnold Neumaier
May26-04, 08:15 AM
<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','toolbar=no, location=no,scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no ,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usenet ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>\nchaverondier wrote:\n> The Quantum State Diffusion model of the individual evolution of open\n> quantum systems introduced by Nicolas Gisin, Group of Applied Physics,\n> University of Geneva and Ian C Percival, Department of Physics, Queen\n> Mary and Westfield College, University of London (see for instance\n> Quantum State Diffusion: from Foundations to Applications\n> http://arxiv.org/abs/quant-ph/9701024 and Essay Review of Quantum\n> State Diffusion by Ian Percival\n> http://www.hpl.hp.com/techreports/2001/HPL-2001-7.pdf ) was motivated\n> by a dynamical description of the measurement process. In this\n> approach, the time evolution of the wavefunction |psi> of an\n> individual open quantum system is governed by the Ito stochastic\n> differential equation\n>=20\n> |dpsi> =3D (-i/hbar) H |psi> dt\n> + sum_j [<L_j^ad> L_j =96 (1/2) L_j^ad L_j =96(1/2) <L_j><L_j^ad>] |psi=\n>\n> dt ]\n> + sum_j [(L =96<L_j>) |psi> dksi_j ]\n>=20\n> What are the quantum phenomena that give rise to the quantum noise\n> dksi_j ?\n\nThe residual influence of the unmodelled envirenment\nto which an open system is coupled (since this is what open means).\n\n\nArnold Neumaier\n\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form"> View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky>chaverondier wrote:
> The Quantum State Diffusion model of the individual evolution of open
> quantum systems introduced by Nicolas Gisin, Group of Applied Physics,
> University of Geneva and Ian C Percival, Department of Physics, Queen
> Mary and Westfield College, University of London (see for instance
> Quantum State Diffusion: from Foundations to Applications
> http://arxiv.org/abs/http://www.arxiv.org/abs/quant-ph/9701024 and Essay Review of Quantum
> State Diffusion by Ian Percival
> http://www.hpl.hp.com/techreports/2001/HPL-2001-7.pdf ) was motivated
> by a dynamical description of the measurement process. In this
> approach, the time evolution of the wavefunction |\psi> of an
> individual open quantum system is governed by the Ito stochastic
> differential equation
>=20
> |dpsi> =3D (-i/\hbar) H |\psi> dt
> + sum_j [<L_j^ad> L_j =96 (1/2) L_j^ad L_j =96(1/2) <L_j><L_j^ad>] |\psi=
>
> dt ]
> + sum_j [(L =96<L_j>) |\psi> dksi_j ]>=20
> What are the quantum phenomena that give rise to the quantum noise
> dksi_j ?
The residual influence of the unmodelled envirenment
to which an open system is coupled (since this is what open means).
Arnold Neumaier
bernard.chaverondier
May27-04, 03:15 AM
<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','toolbar=no, location=no,scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no ,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usenet ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>"Arnold Neumaier" <Arnold.Neumaier@univie.ac.at> a écrit dans le message de\nnews:40B48551.7050604@univie.ac.at...\n\n> chaverondier wrote:\n> >The Quantum State Diffusion model of the individual evolution\n> >of open quantum systems is governed by the Ito stochastic\n> >differential equation\n\n> > |dpsi> = (-i/hbar) H |psi> dt\n> > + sum_j [<L_j^ad> L_j - (1/2) L_j^ad L_j\n\n> > - (1/2) <L_j><L_j^ad>] |psi> dt ]\n> > + sum_j [(L -<L_j>) |psi> dksi_j ]\n\n> >What are the quantum phenomena that give rise\n> >to the quantum noise dksi_j ?\n\n>The residual influence of the unmodelled environment to which\n>an open system is coupled (since this is what open means).\n>Arnold Neumaier\n\nAs this residual influence controls the dynamics that drives a given\nsystem S, from an initial quantum state |psi>, towards one of the\neigenstates |psi_k> associated with the eigenvalue a_k of a quantity\nA when system S interacts with a measuring apparatus measuring\nquantity A, is there a possibility, thanks to a strong control of the\nquantum sate of the unmodelled environment interacting with the\nmeasured system, to get a detectable bias with regard to the Born rule\n\nprobability p_k(a_k) = ||<psi_k|psi>||^2\n\nat least when a numerous population of identical systems S (in the same\nquantum state) interacts rigorously in the same manner with identical very\nlittle and very neat measuring apparatuses in (nearly) identical quantum\nstates, these measuring apparatuses interacting with a rarefied\nenvironment (possibly in Bose Einstein condensate state if necessary)\nand being carefully protected against any source of quantum noise, some\ncare being noteworthy given to try to separate the chaotic microstate state\nof bathes interacting with measurement apparatuses (bathes that are needed\nto achieve the irreversible magnification accompaying the measurements of\nthe quantities A of sytems S) before the initially strongly controlled\nmeasurement process has allowed the systems S to develop a slight tendency\nto evolve in greater number than they should towards a given eigenstate\n|psi_k0> (instead of evolving towards statistically smeared quantum states\n|psi_k> in strict accordance with the Born rule p_k = ||<psi_k|psi>||^2) ?\n\n\nBernard Chaverondier\n\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form"> View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky>"Arnold Neumaier" <Arnold.Neumaier@univie.ac.at> a écrit dans le message de
news:40B48551.7050604@univie.ac.at...
> chaverondier wrote:
> >The Quantum State Diffusion model of the individual evolution
> >of open quantum systems is governed by the Ito stochastic
> >differential equation
> > |dpsi> = (-i/\hbar) H |\psi> dt
> > + sum_j [<L_j^ad> L_j - (1/2) L_j^ad L_j
> > - (1/2) <L_j><L_j^ad>] |\psi> dt ]
> > + sum_j [(L -<L_j>) |\psi> dksi_j ]
> >What are the quantum phenomena that give rise
> >to the quantum noise dksi_j ?
>The residual influence of the unmodelled environment to which
>an open system is coupled (since this is what open means).
>Arnold Neumaier
As this residual influence controls the dynamics that drives a given
system S, from an initial quantum state |\psi>, towards one of the
eigenstates |\psi_k> associated with the eigenvalue a_k of a quantity
A when system S interacts with a measuring apparatus measuring
quantity A, is there a possibility, thanks to a strong control of the
quantum sate of the unmodelled environment interacting with the
measured system, to get a detectable bias with regard to the Born rule
probability p_k(a_k) = ||<\psi_k|\psi>||^2
at least when a numerous population of identical systems S (in the same
quantum state) interacts rigorously in the same manner with identical very
little and very neat measuring apparatuses in (nearly) identical quantum
states, these measuring apparatuses interacting with a rarefied
environment (possibly in Bose Einstein condensate state if necessary)
and being carefully protected against any source of quantum noise, some
care being noteworthy given to try to separate the chaotic microstate state
of bathes interacting with measurement apparatuses (bathes that are needed
to achieve the irreversible magnification accompaying the measurements of
the quantities A of sytems S) before the initially strongly controlled
measurement process has allowed the systems S to develop a slight tendency
to evolve in greater number than they should towards a given eigenstate
|\psi_k0> (instead of evolving towards statistically smeared quantum states
|\psi_k> in strict accordance with the Born rule p_k = ||<\psi_k|\psi>||^2) ?
Bernard Chaverondier
Arnold Neumaier
May29-04, 11:57 AM
<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','toolbar=no, location=no,scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no ,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usenet ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>bernard.chaverondier wrote:\n> "Arnold Neumaier" <Arnold.Neumaier@univie.ac.at> a =E9crit dans le mess=\nage de\n> news:40B48551.7050604@univie.ac.at...\n>=20\n>>cha verondier wrote:\n>>\n>>>The Quantum State Diffusion model of the individual evolution\n>>>of open quantum systems is governed by the Ito stochastic\n>>>differential equation\n>=20\n>>>|dpsi> =3D (-i/hbar) H |psi> dt\n>>>+ sum_j [<L_j^ad> L_j - (1/2) L_j^ad L_j\n>=20\n>>>- (1/2) <L_j><L_j^ad>] |psi> dt ]\n>>>+ sum_j [(L -<L_j>) |psi> dksi_j ]\n>=20\n>>>What are the quantum phenomena that give rise\n>>>to the quantum noise dksi_j ?\n>=20\n>>The residual influence of the unmodelled environment to which\n>>an open system is coupled (since this is what open means).\n\n> As this residual influence controls the dynamics that drives a given\n> system S, from an initial quantum state |psi>, towards one of the\n> eigenstates |psi_k> associated with the eigenvalue a_k of a quantity\n> A when system S interacts with a measuring apparatus measuring\n> quantity A, is there a possibility, thanks to a strong control of the\n> quantum sate of the unmodelled environment interacting with the\n> measured system, to get a detectable bias with regard to the Born rule\n>=20\n> probability p_k(a_k) =3D ||<psi_k|psi>||^2\n>=20\n> at least when a numerous population of identical systems S (in the same=\n\n> quantum state) interacts rigorously in the same manner with identical v=\nery\n> little and very neat measuring apparatuses in (nearly) identical quantu=\nm\n> states, these measuring apparatuses interacting with a rarefied\n> environment (possibly in Bose Einstein condensate state if necessary)\n> and being carefully protected against any source of quantum noise, some=\n\n> care being noteworthy given to try to separate the chaotic microstate s=\ntate\n> of bathes interacting with measurement apparatuses (bathes that are nee=\nded\n> to achieve the irreversible magnification accompaying the measurements =\nof\n> the quantities A of sytems S) before the initially strongly controlled\n> measurement process has allowed the systems S to develop a slight tende=\nncy\n> to evolve in greater number than they should towards a given eigenstate=\n\n> |psi_k0> (instead of evolving towards statistically smeared quantum sta=\ntes\n> |psi_k> in strict accordance with the Born rule p_k =3D ||<psi_k|psi>||=\n^2) ?\n\nYou\'d think of the limited parsing abilities of your readers when\nformulating your sentences. They are far too long to be understandable\nwithout multiple reading and very close attention...\n\nMost books on nonequilibrium statistical mechanics contain derivations\nof the Born rule as approximating the real dynamics, which strictly\nspeaking has memory, which is discarded in the Born approximation.\n\nProbably the deviations can be detected, but I do not know\nto what extent such experiments have been actually performed.\nI think I had seen a long time ago something about measured\ndeviations from the exponential decay law for radioactive substances,\nbut I don\'t remember source or details.\n\n\nArnold Neumaier\n\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form"> View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky>bernard.chaverondier wrote:
> "Arnold Neumaier" <Arnold.Neumaier@univie.ac.at> a =E9crit dans le mess=
age de
> news:40B48551.7050604@univie.ac.at...
>=20
>>chaverondier wrote:
>>
>>>The Quantum State Diffusion model of the individual evolution
>>>of open quantum systems is governed by the Ito stochastic
>>>differential equation
>=20
>>>|dpsi> =3D (-i/\hbar) H |\psi> dt>>>+ sum_j [<L_j^ad> L_j - (1/2) L_j^ad L_j>=20>>>- (1/2) <L_j><L_j^ad>] |\psi> dt ]>>>+ sum_j [(L -<L_j>) |\psi> dksi_j ]>=20
>>>What are the quantum phenomena that give rise
>>>to the quantum noise dksi_j ?>=20
>>The residual influence of the unmodelled environment to which
>>an open system is coupled (since this is what open means).
> As this residual influence controls the dynamics that drives a given
> system S, from an initial quantum state |\psi>, towards one of the
> eigenstates |\psi_k> associated with the eigenvalue a_k of a quantity
> A when system S interacts with a measuring apparatus measuring
> quantity A, is there a possibility, thanks to a strong control of the
> quantum sate of the unmodelled environment interacting with the
> measured system, to get a detectable bias with regard to the Born rule
>=20
> probability p_k(a_k) =3D ||<\psi_k|\psi>||^2>=20
> at least when a numerous population of identical systems S (in the same=
> quantum state) interacts rigorously in the same manner with identical v=
ery
> little and very neat measuring apparatuses in (nearly) identical quantu=
m
> states, these measuring apparatuses interacting with a rarefied
> environment (possibly in Bose Einstein condensate state if necessary)
> and being carefully protected against any source of quantum noise, some=
> care being noteworthy given to try to separate the chaotic microstate s=
tate
> of bathes interacting with measurement apparatuses (bathes that are nee=
ded
> to achieve the irreversible magnification accompaying the measurements =
of
> the quantities A of sytems S) before the initially strongly controlled
> measurement process has allowed the systems S to develop a slight tende=
ncy
> to evolve in greater number than they should towards a given eigenstate=
> |\psi_k0> (instead of evolving towards statistically smeared quantum sta=
tes
> |\psi_k> in strict accordance with the Born rule p_k =3D ||<\psi_k|\psi>||=^2) ?
You'd think of the limited parsing abilities of your readers when
formulating your sentences. They are far too long to be understandable
without multiple reading and very close attention...
Most books on nonequilibrium statistical mechanics contain derivations
of the Born rule as approximating the real dynamics, which strictly
speaking has memory, which is discarded in the Born approximation.
Probably the deviations can be detected, but I do not know
to what extent such experiments have been actually performed.
I think I had seen a long time ago something about measured
deviations from the exponential decay law for radioactive substances,
but I don't remember source or details.
Arnold Neumaier
Arnold Neumaier
May29-04, 11:57 AM
<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','toolbar=no, location=no,scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no ,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usenet ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>bernard.chaverondier wrote:\n> "Arnold Neumaier" <Arnold.Neumaier@univie.ac.at> a écrit dans le message de\n> news:40B48551.7050604@univie.ac.at...\n>\n>>chaver ondier wrote:\n>>\n>>>The Quantum State Diffusion model of the individual evolution\n>>>of open quantum systems is governed by the Ito stochastic\n>>>differential equation\n>\n>>>|dpsi> = (-i/hbar) H |psi> dt\n>>>+ sum_j [<L_j^ad> L_j - (1/2) L_j^ad L_j\n>\n>>>- (1/2) <L_j><L_j^ad>] |psi> dt ]\n>>>+ sum_j [(L -<L_j>) |psi> dksi_j ]\n>\n>>>What are the quantum phenomena that give rise\n>>>to the quantum noise dksi_j ?\n>\n>>The residual influence of the unmodelled environment to which\n>>an open system is coupled (since this is what open means).\n\n> As this residual influence controls the dynamics that drives a given\n> system S, from an initial quantum state |psi>, towards one of the\n> eigenstates |psi_k> associated with the eigenvalue a_k of a quantity\n> A when system S interacts with a measuring apparatus measuring\n> quantity A, is there a possibility, thanks to a strong control of the\n> quantum sate of the unmodelled environment interacting with the\n> measured system, to get a detectable bias with regard to the Born rule\n>\n> probability p_k(a_k) = ||<psi_k|psi>||^2\n>\n> at least when a numerous population of identical systems S (in the same=\n\n> quantum state) interacts rigorously in the same manner with identical v=\nery\n> little and very neat measuring apparatuses in (nearly) identical quantu=\nm\n> states, these measuring apparatuses interacting with a rarefied\n> environment (possibly in Bose Einstein condensate state if necessary)\n> and being carefully protected against any source of quantum noise, some=\n\n> care being noteworthy given to try to separate the chaotic microstate s=\ntate\n> of bathes interacting with measurement apparatuses (bathes that are nee=\nded\n> to achieve the irreversible magnification accompaying the measurements =\nof\n> the quantities A of sytems S) before the initially strongly controlled\n> measurement process has allowed the systems S to develop a slight tende=\nncy\n> to evolve in greater number than they should towards a given eigenstate=\n\n> |psi_k0> (instead of evolving towards statistically smeared quantum sta=\ntes\n> |psi_k> in strict accordance with the Born rule p_k = ||<psi_k|psi>||=\n^2) ?\n\nYou\'d think of the limited parsing abilities of your readers when\nformulating your sentences. They are far too long to be understandable\nwithout multiple reading and very close attention...\n\nMost books on nonequilibrium statistical mechanics contain derivations\nof the Born rule as approximating the real dynamics, which strictly\nspeaking has memory, which is discarded in the Born approximation.\n\nProbably the deviations can be detected, but I do not know\nto what extent such experiments have been actually performed.\nI think I had seen a long time ago something about measured\ndeviations from the exponential decay law for radioactive substances,\nbut I don\'t remember source or details.\n\n\nArnold Neumaier\n\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form"> View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky>bernard.chaverondier wrote:
> "Arnold Neumaier" <Arnold.Neumaier@univie.ac.at> a écrit dans le message de
> news:40B48551.7050604@univie.ac.at...
>
>>chaverondier wrote:
>>
>>>The Quantum State Diffusion model of the individual evolution
>>>of open quantum systems is governed by the Ito stochastic
>>>differential equation
>
>>>|dpsi> = (-i/\hbar) H |\psi> dt>>>+ sum_j [<L_j^ad> L_j - (1/2) L_j^ad L_j
>
>>>- (1/2) <L_j><L_j^ad>] |\psi> dt ]>>>+ sum_j [(L -<L_j>) |\psi> dksi_j ]
>
>>>What are the quantum phenomena that give rise
>>>to the quantum noise dksi_j ?
>
>>The residual influence of the unmodelled environment to which
>>an open system is coupled (since this is what open means).
> As this residual influence controls the dynamics that drives a given
> system S, from an initial quantum state |\psi>, towards one of the
> eigenstates |\psi_k> associated with the eigenvalue a_k of a quantity
> A when system S interacts with a measuring apparatus measuring
> quantity A, is there a possibility, thanks to a strong control of the
> quantum sate of the unmodelled environment interacting with the
> measured system, to get a detectable bias with regard to the Born rule
>
> probability p_k(a_k) = ||<\psi_k|\psi>||^2
>
> at least when a numerous population of identical systems S (in the same=
> quantum state) interacts rigorously in the same manner with identical v=
ery
> little and very neat measuring apparatuses in (nearly) identical quantu=
m
> states, these measuring apparatuses interacting with a rarefied
> environment (possibly in Bose Einstein condensate state if necessary)
> and being carefully protected against any source of quantum noise, some=
> care being noteworthy given to try to separate the chaotic microstate s=
tate
> of bathes interacting with measurement apparatuses (bathes that are nee=
ded
> to achieve the irreversible magnification accompaying the measurements =
of
> the quantities A of sytems S) before the initially strongly controlled
> measurement process has allowed the systems S to develop a slight tende=
ncy
> to evolve in greater number than they should towards a given eigenstate=
> |\psi_k0> (instead of evolving towards statistically smeared quantum sta=
tes
> |\psi_k> in strict accordance with the Born rule p_k = ||<\psi_k|\psi>||=^2) ?
You'd think of the limited parsing abilities of your readers when
formulating your sentences. They are far too long to be understandable
without multiple reading and very close attention...
Most books on nonequilibrium statistical mechanics contain derivations
of the Born rule as approximating the real dynamics, which strictly
speaking has memory, which is discarded in the Born approximation.
Probably the deviations can be detected, but I do not know
to what extent such experiments have been actually performed.
I think I had seen a long time ago something about measured
deviations from the exponential decay law for radioactive substances,
but I don't remember source or details.
Arnold Neumaier
bernard.chaverondier
May31-04, 06:26 AM
<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','toolbar=no, location=no,scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no ,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usenet ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>\n\n"Arnold Neumaier" <Arnold.Neumaier@univie.ac.at>\na écrit dans le message de news:40B5D220.3000907@univie.ac.at...\n\nChaverond ier\n> > > > The Quantum State Diffusion model of the individual\n> > > > evolution of open quantum systems is governed by\n> > > > the Ito stochastic differential equation\n\n> > > > |dpsi> =3D (-i/hbar) H |psi> dt\n> > > >+ sum_j [<L_j^ad> L_j - (1/2) L_j^ad L_j\n> > > >- (1/2) <L_j><L_j^ad>] |psi> dt ]\n> > > >+ sum_j [(L -<L_j>) |psi> dksi_j ]\n\n> > > >What are the quantum phenomena that give rise\n> > > >to the quantum noise dksi_j ?\n\nArnold Neumaier\n> > >The residual influence of the unmodelled environment to which\n> > >an open system is coupled (since this is what open means).\n\nArnold Neumaier\n> Most books on nonequilibrium statistical mechanics contain derivations\n> of the Born rule as approximating the real dynamics, which strictly\n> speaking has memory, which is discarded in the Born approximation.\n\n> Probably the deviations can be detected, but I do not know\n> to what extent such experiments have been actually performed.\n> I think I had seen a long time ago something about measured\n> deviations from the exponential decay law for radioactive\n> substances, but I don\'t remember source or details.\n\nChaverondier\n\nThank you very much for this very interesting answer.\nNow is my next question. Is there a possibility, compatible\nwith our present knowledge or quantum state diffusion, that the\nobserver may cause a detectable bias to the Born rule thanks to\na very stringent control of the quantum state of the measuring\ndevice and of the quantum state of the environment ?\n\nBernard Chaverondier\n\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form"> View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky>"Arnold Neumaier" <Arnold.Neumaier@univie.ac.at>
a écrit dans le message de news:40B5D220.3000907@univie.ac.at...
Chaverondier
> > > > The Quantum State Diffusion model of the individual
> > > > evolution of open quantum systems is governed by
> > > > the Ito stochastic differential equation
> > > > |dpsi> =3D (-i/\hbar) H |\psi> dt
> > > >+ sum_j [<L_j^ad> L_j - (1/2) L_j^ad L_j
> > > >- (1/2) <L_j><L_j^ad>] |\psi> dt ]
> > > >+ sum_j [(L -<L_j>) |\psi> dksi_j ]
> > > >What are the quantum phenomena that give rise
> > > >to the quantum noise dksi_j ?
Arnold Neumaier
> > >The residual influence of the unmodelled environment to which
> > >an open system is coupled (since this is what open means).
Arnold Neumaier
> Most books on nonequilibrium statistical mechanics contain derivations
> of the Born rule as approximating the real dynamics, which strictly
> speaking has memory, which is discarded in the Born approximation.
> Probably the deviations can be detected, but I do not know
> to what extent such experiments have been actually performed.
> I think I had seen a long time ago something about measured
> deviations from the exponential decay law for radioactive
> substances, but I don't remember source or details.
Chaverondier
Thank you very much for this very interesting answer.
Now is my next question. Is there a possibility, compatible
with our present knowledge or quantum state diffusion, that the
observer may cause a detectable bias to the Born rule thanks to
a very stringent control of the quantum state of the measuring
device and of the quantum state of the environment ?
Bernard Chaverondier
Arnold Neumaier
Jun1-04, 11:21 AM
<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','toolbar=no, location=no,scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no ,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usenet ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>\n\nbernard.chaverondier wrote:\n> "Arnold Neumaier" <Arnold.Neumaier@univie.ac.at>\n> a =E9crit dans le message de news:40B5D220.3000907@univie.ac.at...\n\n>>Most books on nonequilibrium statistical mechanics contain derivations\n>>of the Born rule as approximating the real dynamics, which strictly\n>>speaking has memory, which is discarded in the Born approximation.\n>=20\n>>Probably the deviations can be detected, but I do not know\n>>to what extent such experiments have been actually performed.\n>>I think I had seen a long time ago something about measured\n>>deviations from the exponential decay law for radioactive\n>>substances, but I don\'t remember source or details.\n>=20\n> Thank you very much for this very interesting answer.\n> Now is my next question. Is there a possibility, compatible\n> with our present knowledge or quantum state diffusion, that the\n> observer may cause a detectable bias to the Born rule thanks to\n> a very stringent control of the quantum state of the measuring\n> device and of the quantum state of the environment ?\n\nI don\'t know.\n\nYou\'d have to find and ask the people who are actually doing\nwork in this direction...\n\n\nArnold Neumaier\n\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form"> View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky>bernard.chaverondier wrote:
> "Arnold Neumaier" <Arnold.Neumaier@univie.ac.at>
> a =E9crit dans le message de news:40B5D220.3000907@univie.ac.at...
>>Most books on nonequilibrium statistical mechanics contain derivations
>>of the Born rule as approximating the real dynamics, which strictly
>>speaking has memory, which is discarded in the Born approximation.
>=20
>>Probably the deviations can be detected, but I do not know
>>to what extent such experiments have been actually performed.
>>I think I had seen a long time ago something about measured
>>deviations from the exponential decay law for radioactive
>>substances, but I don't remember source or details.
>=20
> Thank you very much for this very interesting answer.
> Now is my next question. Is there a possibility, compatible
> with our present knowledge or quantum state diffusion, that the
> observer may cause a detectable bias to the Born rule thanks to
> a very stringent control of the quantum state of the measuring
> device and of the quantum state of the environment ?
I don't know.
You'd have to find and ask the people who are actually doing
work in this direction...
Arnold Neumaier
vBulletin® v3.8.7, Copyright ©2000-2012, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.