Are Americans Dumbs ?

[Zargawee]

A president represents his comunity and he is the best one of them .
and as everyone agrees , Bosh is considered a VERY STUPID PERSON ...
So .... ( Compare To Above )

Why some of you agreed for him to be president ?

EDITED

[Njorl]

No, Americans are not "dumbs". I imagine that we are pretty much of average intelligence. We have a political system in which the people almost choose the president directly. It doesn't require that much intelligence to get elected. It is actually seen as a hindrance to be too intelligent. Most people, not just Americans, don't like or trust those who are smarter than themselves. Bill Clinton used to pretend to be a "dumb hick" to win votes.

In most countries, the leader is someone most capable of killing off or intimidating his rivals. This requires a good deal of intelligence. Most democratic countries have parliamentary systems, in which the leader is chosen by the political party in charge. Convincing your party to choose you usually requires more intelligence than convincing the general public.



Njorl

[Nicool003]

No Americans are NOT DUMB and no President Bush is not dumb!

and By the way zargawee your country is in the coalition that is on our side so why are you against us?

[Greg Bernhardt]

I'm sorry Zarg, bu this topic is "dumb".

[Kerrie]

if you are sorry for the offensive title of this thread, then why did you post it?
it seems obvious to me that you dislike americans just because of our ape of a president..before making an ignorant claim as this, you may need to do your research and really see how our president is voted in...and once you become EDUCATED on the process, you will see that when it comes to the american president, the american individual does not have the final say..

i also find this topic non-productive of the support of humanity...you are able excercise your free speech in what you think, but that does not mean it will be positive in what you are attempting to communicate...it is this attitude that is (in my opinion) supportive of terrorism, war, and hate crimes...ultimately, there is only one race, and that is the human race..

[Zargawee]

and By the way zargawee your country is in the coalition that is on our side so why are you against us?
That's Right ... Jordan Is With USA .
But You Have to Remember That Some of Jordanians are from palestinian roots ( I'm not ) , So , since Bush is the biggest supporter to Israel , we hate him .
ad Everyone has the right to give his opinion , and most of the US Poeple think that Bush is dumb , and doesn't deserve to govern the most powerful country in the world.

[STAii]

Originally posted by Njorl
Convincing your party to choose you usually requires more intelligence than convincing the general public.

Umm ... not quite.
You do not have to be intelligent yourself to be elected, your election campaing must be intelligent, and that does not mean you are intelligent.
It is possible that you are totally dumb, but the person that is managing your campaign is extremly intelligent (and has experience), so you win the elections.
I am not saying you only need to have a good campaing manager to win the elections (you will need to be well known, conveince people you will make their life better ... etc), but i am talking about the intelligence part of it.

[Kerrie]

one more comment to post here:

in america, as we are in iraq fighting an (unnecessary) war, we are also encouraged to not be prejudiced against the people of the arabic nations, only saddam hussein...i find your topic most hypocritical..

[Zargawee]

this attitude that is (in my opinion) supportive of terrorism, war, and hate crimes...
Not True !
If Bush was removed from Us Government , Wars like Gulf war 3 , Afghanistan ... etc. Wouldn't happen , and would stop.
Remember that Wars is the reason why terrorist make actions, for example , France Is always a supporter of peace , that's why none of the Terrorists Attack it .

[Greg Bernhardt]

most of the US Poeple think that Bush is dumb
How in the world can you make this conclusion, especially living in Jordan?

[Greg Bernhardt]

How in the world can you make this conclusion, especially living in Jordan?

France Is always a supporter of peace
lol

[russ_watters]

Are Americans Dumbs? ROFLMAO. Is any response really requried?

[Zargawee]

Originally posted by Greg Bernhardt
How in the world can you make this conclusion, especially living in Jordan?
I Read Alot ... Specially English And American newspapers .

Or Maybe Your Madia Wants Him to Look Like that ?

[N_Quire]

If September 11 had not happened, the invasion of Afghanistan would not have happened. If Saddam Hussein had complied with the United Nations resolutions on disarmament, Iraq would not have been invaded.

Before September 11, Bush had very little interest in foreign affairs. He would have been happy to let countries get on with their own affairs had it not been for September 11.

Bush is not dumber than most. What makes him better than Saddam Hussein is that he believes in democracy and freedom and is willing to step down if voted out of office.

[STAii]

So because someone has been more intelligent that the US defenses, Bush is taking revenge of the whole world ?

[Zargawee]

Let me Point to something about this topic .
Week Ago , I read about a book titled "Why do poeple hate america ?" , I Wanted To Buy It , But It wasn't available yet.
Anyway , The article written in the newspaper said that the book says :"The Peoeple hate america because of The US Government Actions" ( I'm Not Sure Of The Text ) ...

So I Think That The Person Who Is Responsible for this Government Should Be Repolaced.

That's What Inspired Me To Start This Topic.

[N_Quire]

Zargawee,
We have elections in America. If people are dissatisfied with Bush at election time, they will vote him out of office. If they have confidence in him, they will re-elect him. It is as simple as that.

[Zargawee]

Well , this Means That It's Allowed To Act Like An angel Befoire Election , And like Devil After it ....
the constitution of election has bugs ... I Believe than No system is perfect , but this is a very big bug ... and very bad one

[N_Quire]

Without the support of the political system and the people of America, this war would not have been possible. This is not one-man's war against Iraq. It is the result of Iraq's refusal to disarm and its continued attempts to deceive the world about its weapons.

You are witnessing a new American foreign policy of pre-emptive action.

[kyleb]

N_Quire, you make it sound as if the popular vote elected Bush in the first place. granted i supported him but i did not support the supreme court decision that made him president and he lost my support at that and has not been doing anything to get it back either.

as for the topic, it is not so much that we are "dumb", but rather that it is a very complex society and many of us get confused into making poor choices. Njorl point out an excellent example:

Originally posted by Njorl
It is actually seen as a hindrance to be too intelligent. Most people, not just Americans, don't like or trust those who are smarter than themselves.


we do not leave much room for progress with a mentality like that. [:((]

[N_Quire]

Kyleb, The president is elected for a term of office. My point is simply that he can be voted out of office if the electorate wants a change. Whatever Bush's many failings, he will not cling to power as a dictator does and if he tried to do that, he would be removed.

[kyleb]

he came to power with the support of the minority, just like a dictator does; and he has many ways to help cling to that power as well.

[Alias]

Something tells me this thread wouldn't exist if Clinton was supreme dictator of the US.

[N_Quire]

Kyleb, it is not quite the same. The American system of democracy is not perfect, everyone knows that. But it is relatively free within its limits. Everyone knew the rules going into the election and everyone respected the outcome (even if Bush got fewer votes in total than his opponent but won the electoral college).

This cannot be compared with the way that a dictator comes to and clings to power. When Bush's term of office ends, he will have to stand for reelection. If he loses that election, he will hand over power even if he does not want to. He will not use the military to cling to power. He will accept the voice of the people as it is expressed via the presidential election, however flawed that electoral system might be.

[kyleb]

so i take it by "everyone" you are considering people like me to be nobodies? furthermore, from what i see he very much is using the military to cling to power, as well as influence over the media. also, why would you belive that he will accept the voice of the people in the election next time when you know as well as i do that he ignored such things last time?

[Nicool003]

Zargawee the United States was allies with Israel before President Bush and we were helping them before President Bush too. I assume this means that you hated the former president too? The one who sold secrets to known enemies to the US for money. The one who cheated on his wife then lied to the country. The one who just missed getting kicked out of office. You know. That one.

[kyleb]

i never cared for Clinton by any means but his wife stood beside him after his infidelity; and considering that, i find it disturbing you use it as something to chastise the man for. also, i am disappointed with Clinton's support of the Israeli expiation, i imagine Zargawee feels the same.

[russ_watters]

he came to power with the support of the minority, just like a dictator does; and he has many ways to help cling to that power as well. A dictator by definition need not come into power with the support of ANYONE. He simply siezes it.

so i take it by "everyone" you are considering people like me to be nobodies? If you are unaware of the rules of the game (such as how the president is elected) you should READ them.
from what i see he very much is using the military to cling to power, as well as influence over the media. also, why would you belive that he will accept the voice of the people in the election next time when you know as well as i do that he ignored such things last time? Um, during that last election, Bush was not president. He had no power whatsoever, much less power to ignore the voice of the people. And influence over the media? Are you kidding? Have you even READ a newspaper lately?

I heard a similar conspiracy theory when Clinton was in power. It was said that Clinton was going to use the Y2k disaster (yeah, disaster) to invoke FEMA and sieze dictatorial power. As far as I know that didn't happen. This theory is no less rediculous. I was certainly no fan of Clinton, but he was no dictator. No US president has ever been. When Bush's second term is up he will willingly relinquish his power.

Another important thing to note is that the President does NOT own the military. The military exists to support and defend the CONSTITUTION, not the president. If the president tried anything like has been suggested, he'd find no support from the military.

I realize these concepts are alien to many of you - you haven't ever experienced the amazing thing that is american freedom and, prosperity. I encourage non-Americans to read the US Constitution (and Americans to reread it). Its an astounding document.

[Nicool003]

i never cared for Clinton by any means but his wife stood beside him after his infidelity; and considering that, i find it disturbing you use it as something to chastise the man for. also, i am disappointed with Clinton's support of the Israeli expiation, i imagine Zargawee feels the same.


First off are you American?

God knows why his wife stood by him but it is most likely to make her look good. She is senator now and she is running for president so that settles that. But if that isn't enough for you she practically ran the administration while Clinton was in office and they both caused major problems like I mentioned before they sold secrets to enemies they broke down our army they caused thousands of dollars of damage for President Bush's administration to clean up in teh white house.


Is that enough?

[kyleb]

Originally posted by russ_watters
A dictator by definition need not come into power with the support of ANYONE. He simply siezes it.

could you exlpain what you mean in detail by "siezes" please? also, how does one do such things all alone? lastly, would you be so kind as to present real-world examples?



also yes Nicool003, i am an Amercan. as for your question of if that was enough; i didnt even need to hear that from you so if you are leaving it up to me, yes that was more than enough. [;)]

[LURCH]

You bet! Absolutely!

However, fortunately for us, we're not quite as dumb as Arabs[:))] !

(Ain't slanderous insults based on race-hatred an ugly thing?!)

[(Q)]

ARE AMERICANS DUMBS?

Dumb... maybe.

Stupid... abosolutely not!

[russ_watters]

could you exlpain what you mean in detail by "siezes" please? also, how does one do such things all alone? lastly, would you be so kind as to present real-world examples? Have you read Machiavelli's "The Prince"? Its the dictator's handbook and a great insight into the mind of an actual dictator. "Alone" is of course an exaggeration. But it takes very few - as few as half a dozen loyal lackeys. NO popular support is required. Once you are in power however, all that is required is a circle of fear. You need NO actual followers to hold power. Every follower obeys for only one reason: FEAR. And every dictatorship has a common element in place before hand - a highly consolidated power base. Without it, power is too spread out to sieze control of it.

Saddam Hussein was lucky enought to inheret his power from his predecessor. But his methods for rising to the top and keeping control are straight out of "The Prince." Lie, cheat, decieve, manipulate, bribe, threaten, kill, etc.

Hitler is the example on which all other dictators are measured against. Hitler had a handful of key lackeys. In order to sieze control, he had his lackeys set up the bombing of the seat of German government. He essentially just murdered the entire government, leaving himself as the only one left to rule. Poof, intstant dictatorship.

I'm not a history expert here. Pick a couple of dictators and read a little about how they were able to gain and maintain control. You will realize ther are very few parallels to the way the US works. Our power is far too distributed for anyone to consoidate it into a dictatorship.

[zeronem]

Mr.Zargawee, So far your post show no intelligence to back up your statement that Bush is unintelligent. People have posted and your replys have no effective support for you topic. Not only that, it looks to me as you have ignored replying to the people who made the most intelligent remarks to show that you are wrong.

Anyways, the reason lots of Arabs are against the U.S. is because they look at the U.S. and feel like 2nd class people. They have basically stated their Jealousy of the U.S. They look at us as if we are big and intelligent in which we reside in buildings that reach the sky like the WTC's. We have these buildings because we need them. Not to show that we are big, but economically we must have them. Arabs look at the U.S. as a bossy Country who are very interacted with the World. The reason U.S. is interacted with the world is because we like to help people. We offered to help Russia get the Submarine that had sunk down to the bottom of the Sea Floor, but they refused. Still today we offer help to lots of Nations in need of it. We offer help to Mexico, we even helped Nations without their consent, such as we are doing in Iraq, and as we did when we liberated Yugoslavia. Not only that, U.S. practically saved the world from a Dictator who could of taken over the world. If we have not planned the D-Day invasion we would probably all be speaking German, wearing Nazi Uniforms. In fact the D-Day Invasion could have possibly been the only chance we had to defeat Hitler. Other wise had the Invasion not taken to effect, we might not have had any other chance to take Hitler out. It seems the Arabs are not looking toward the good that the U.S. does. Or they can not see that we are doing this for the good of the world. Some claim that the U.S doesn't know what is good for the world. That is completely biased, we think before we pull off an action. The U.S. has worked hard to get into this position as a Nation that we are in Now. For 200 years we have fought various Wars to keep our Nation. That is why we refuse to let Dictators destroy it.

[rutwig]

As I see it, there is an enormous difference between the opinion one can have of the president and how this applies to the people which elected (or not) him. There are stupid americans and intelligent ones, just in the same proportion of imbeciles/intelligents you can find in Europe or everywhere else.
I do not see Bush as a leader, but I do not consider him stupid, since he knows very well what he wants.
It is easy to extrapolate in saying that americans are dumbs, but this usually shows only the ignorance of the person expressing this. Even if the actual circumstances of the military intervention are questionable (among others, the guy S should have been removed from Universe many years ago), and some of their possible consequences worse than the actual sutuation, my opinion about the americans (even those which claim divinity missions) stays the same. Dumb would be to generalize the opinion about one guy (Bush) to the totality of the US population.

[Sting]

Everyone,

Please avoid the race-based insults (even it is to make a point).

Zargawee, to prevent any further provoking of flaming and insults, I would suggest changing the title to something less provocative. If you are not able to do it, just let me know and I'll be glad to change it for you ok? [:)]

We are all humans and we have different opinions and emotions but let's try to be respectful to one another.

[N_Quire]

I would like Mr Zargawee to tell us whether Saddam should have been left to run Iraq and (possibly) continue building weapons of mass destuction and bug bombs? Does Zargawee support the efforts of the United Nations to disarm Iraq or does he believe that the Iraqi leadership should have been left alone to do what it saw fit in Iraq. And, finally, does he think that multi-party democracy would be good or bad for the middle east?

If we or are president are "dumbs", we are at least democratic and freedom-loving dumbs with an inalienable right to be dumbs.

[Nicool003]

And I'm sure that you all must have heard that thousands of soldiers saddam forced into his service surrendered today and yesterday. Hmm des this put a cap on that little "Iraq likes saddam" arguement? They don't like him people! but they cant speak against him!

[Zargawee]

LURCH
However, fortunately for us, we're not quite as dumb as Arabs !
Well , Can You Prove that ?


zeronem
Mr.Zargawee, So far your post show no intelligence to back up your statement that Bush is unintelligent.
Why ? Do you want me to show you what your president is ?
but if you really want to know , I have lots of examples , starting from wrong expressions in language and dictation typos , and ending with wrong actions in formal meetings.

People have posted and your replys have no effective support for you topic. Not only that, it looks to me as you have ignored replying to the people who made the most intelligent remarks to show that you are wrong.
I didn't ignore them , I didn't come to PF for some time , And this is my first come since I Last created the topic.
and for the intelligent replies , can You show me them ?

Anyways, the reason lots of Arabs are against the U.S. is because they look at the U.S. and feel like 2nd class people.
Let me point to something , most of Arabs are Muslims , and the muslim look to life that it worths nothing , so it doesn't matter for us ( Muslims ) to live rich or poor , becuase eventually we are going to die , and what will we get from this life with us ? For You , a dead person gets nothing with him/her , but we muslims belive that a person actions in life is what he takes with him to the afterworld.
we DO NOT care for life.

They look at us as if we are big and intelligent in which we reside in buildings that reach the sky like the WTC's. We have these buildings because we need them. Not to show that we are big, but economically we must have them.
We look at US as an unfair country , not as intelligent one .
And For WTC , I didn't support the 11-Sep attacks , And I Still don't , but I think that we arabs has buildings like WTC , Even if they are shorter. But who the hell who cares ?

The reason U.S. is interacted with the world is because we like to help people. We offered to help Russia get the Submarine that had sunk down to the bottom of the Sea Floor, but they refused. Still today we offer help to lots of Nations in need of it. We offer help to Mexico, we even helped Nations without their consent, such as we are doing in Iraq, and as we did when we liberated Yugoslavia.
Come On! Do You Think I Belive This Sh*t !
Do You Belive That USA Helps Mexico Becuase They Like Mexican Poeple ? Or They Helped Yogoslavia Becuase Of The Poeple There ? In Other Words ... Do You Think That USA Will Pay 100 Billion Dollars To Cover It's War against Iraq , Just becayse it care about the Iraqi poeple ?
If it does , then US hates it's own cetizins , becuase it is deprives it's own poeple from this money .

It seems the Arabs are not looking toward the good that the U.S. does. Or they can not see that we are doing this for the good of the world. Some claim that the U.S doesn't know what is good for the world. That is completely biased, we think before we pull off an action. The U.S. has worked hard to get into this position as a Nation that we are in Now.
No ... The whole world knows what USA Is doing , that's what 500 000 Poeple knew in London yesterday , and tha's what 3 million knew in Italy week ago , that's what Also Iraqi know.

USA Is fighting for it's own good , For It's projects based in those countries , look at Kuwait , Why did USA defent it from the Iraqi invasion ? ... that's Right , to pretects it's projects in there , and to pretect it's Oil there.

For 200 years we have fought various Wars to keep our Nation. That is why we refuse to let Dictators destroy it.
SO WHAT ? It's natural for a human to fight for his/her good !

[Zargawee]

Originally posted by Sting
Everyone,

Please avoid the race-based insults (even it is to make a point).

Zargawee, to prevent any further provoking of flaming and insults, I would suggest changing the title to something less provocative. If you are not able to do it, just let me know and I'll be glad to change it for you ok? [:)]

We are all humans and we have different opinions and emotions but let's try to be respectful to one another.

Becuase You're A Friend Before Being A Mentor ... I Changed The topic subject.

[Laser Eyes]

I'm sorry Zarg, bu this topic is "dumb".

It sure turned out to be popular though.

[Zargawee]

Originally posted by N_Quire
I would like Mr Zargawee to tell us whether Saddam should have been left to run Iraq and (possibly) continue building weapons of mass destuction and bug bombs?

There's No Proof that Saddam has developed or build any WMD ...
But I Have To Ask N_Quire ... Doesn't USA Has WDM's ? Why USA Is allowed to have WMD ? And Why USA Is Allowed To Use Is Agains Iraqi poeple ?

Does Zargawee support the efforts of the United Nations to disarm Iraq or does he believe that the Iraqi leadership should have been left alone to do what it saw fit in Iraq.

First of all , Arabs respect the UN and the security counsel verdicts , But USA Don't.
second of all, I Don't Like Saddam ... But I don't care if he left the leadership or not , Jordan's is not geting worse no better becuase of him , We are independent country that cares about itself first , that's whay cause the Jordanian governemnt to declare the "Jordan first" project ....
Maybe you wonder what this has to do with your question , but It's really related , because the main thing I care for it the Good of Jordan , then comes other things.
So , if Saddam left leadership and that was good for Jordan , then I Support that , And If Saddam still the leader of Iraq , And That Was good for Jordan , then I support that too .
Jordan Is What I Care for !

And, finally, does he think that multi-party democracy would be good or bad for the middle east?

Explain "Multi-party democracy" , Please.

If we or are president are "dumbs", we are at least democratic and freedom-loving dumbs with an inalienable right to be dumbs.
I took back the word Dumb.

[Laser Eyes]

I can't believe we are even debating Bush's intelligence. The guy is a bona fide moron. I often hear comedians like Jay Leno make jokes about Bush's intelligence. If it is so obvious that comedians make jokes about it then doesn't that mean it is obvious? Everyone knows he is a C student. Oh he's illiterate too but his pride will never let him admit it. Bush has led a privileged life. He has never struggled for anything. He has spent his life trading off his father's name and his family's wealth. Everything has been handed to him on a silver platter. He has a confidence born from an expectation that he always gets his way. A worse choice for president of the US could not have been made.

Americans on the other hand, as a whole, are a clever and creative people.

[Zargawee]

Americans on the other hand, as a whole, are a clever and creative people.
I Don't Agree .. America Has Brilliand Minds , But I Heared a statistics in 1996 said that 40% of americans Don't know where the sun rises.

[Sting]

Becuase You're A Friend Before Being A Mentor ... I Changed The topic subject.

Thank you Zargawee. Yes, I am your friend and I'm glad you realize that.

[LURCH]

Originally posted by Zargawee
LURCH

Well , Can You Prove that ?



Of course not! As I said, it is a "slanderous insult based on race-hatred", just like the title of your thread.

BTW, I see statements that the title of this topic has been changed, but it still shows up the same on my screen. Is that the result of a technical problem? Do the rest of you see it the same on your 'puter?

[Nicool003]

Well Zarg he was replying to the insult of you saying Americans are dumb (asking it, saying it, its all the same) It is human to get angry and respond.

Yeah the title still shows up the same too me.

[Sting]

It appears the same on mine as well.

Zargawee, since it's your thread, I'll leave it up to you on what you want to rename it. After a while, if no change, I'll change it to a less provoking title, ok? [:)]

[kyleb]

Originally posted by LURCH
Of course not! As I said, it is a "slanderous insult based on race-hatred", just like the title of your thread.



how do you get race-hatred out of that? i mean we have all sorts of races here and most of them come from many other countries. it was a cultural question and not a racial one the best i can tell.

[Laser Eyes]

I Don't Agree .. America Has Brilliand Minds , But I Heared a statistics in 1996 said that 40% of americans Don't know where the sun rises.

Oh come on. Everyone knows where the sun rises, even Americans. It rises in the sky.

[RageSk8]

This topic is almost as dumb as George W. Bush.

[Siv]

That Dubya is not the smartest of Presidents is no secret. That this war is a totally unnecessary and stupid one is also no secret.
I supported the Afghan war 200%. That was necessary.
I am totally against this one. This is just mindless bullying.

But Zargawee probably forgets that Bush was not elected President. So there are a lot of intelligent rational Americans out there who are totally against this war and some other such silly decisions made by Dubya.
What is probably hard for the Americans (and maybe the British) to understand is that this war sets a very very dangerous precedent. It gives the US the right to attack whoever it chooses to tomorrow, if that country irritates the US or has to be done away with for whatever selfish interests the US might have at that moment. It scares the **** out of all of us, esp the third world countries. And rightly so.

- S.

[Another God]

Originally posted by Njorl
No, Americans are not "dumbs". I imagine that we are pretty much of average intelligence.

Here's a little understood fact:

Very nearly exactly 50% of all americans are below average intelligence.

[kat]

Originally posted by Another God
Here's a little understood fact:

Very nearly exactly 50% of all americans are below average intelligence.

being the cup half full type I prefer the other little understood fact:

Very nearly exactly 50% of all americans are above average intelligence. [;)]

[bogdan]

Are Americans dumb ? YES.
Are Iraqis dumb ? YES.
Are Germans dumb ? YES.
Are French dumb ? YES.
Are Russians dumb ? YES.
Are Romanians dumb ? YES.
Are Jordanians dumb ? YES.
Are HUMANS dumb ? YES.
We are all dumb because we can't find a better way to mantain peace...
But...until someone will have a better idea...I guess war is suitable in this context...because : 'He who wants peace must prepare for war...'

[LURCH]

Originally posted by Zargawee

Let me point to something , most of Arabs are Muslims , and the muslim look to life that it worths nothing , so it doesn't matter for us ( Muslims ) to live rich or poor , becuase eventually we are going to die , and what will we get from this life with us ? For You , a dead person gets nothing with him/her , but we muslims belive that a person actions in life is what he takes with him to the afterworld.
we DO NOT care for life.



Ever since the Trade Center Massacre, I have been trying to avoid this very conclusion, that Muslims place no value on human life. And now a Muslim is telling me that it is correct! I am still reluctant to believe it. I am going to try to spend some time in a Muslim chatroom this weekend, to see if I can't find Muslims of the opposite opinion. This is a major blow to my attempt to see Muslims as people, capable of civilised behavior and able to be reasoned with.

Could it be true that they really are all a bunch of cold-blooded murderers? It would make me very sad to have to believe that.

[kyleb]

i am prety sure he is refering to their own lives, in the sense that good Muslim is not afraid of death.

[Kerrie]

Originally posted by Siv
But Zargawee probably forgets that Bush was not elected President. So there are a lot of intelligent rational Americans out there who are totally against this war and some other such silly decisions made by Dubya.


i absolutely agree with this Siv...i found it funny that Bush stated that the oil fires would be considered a war crime (someone correct me if i am wrong in this claim, i heard it on public radio)...i don't think Americans are dumb, but some can be ignorant...and in our country this is more of a choice because of our freedoms...

as an American, not only do we have many freedoms, but also i think we have an (unspoken) obligation to educate ourselves and get involved with our government instead of letting an elite *minority* lead us...

[damgo]

Lurch, it's got nothing to do with Islam. Fundamentalism of any stripe always places little value on one's own life.Large crowds were traveling with Jesus, and turning to them he said:
"If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters--yea, even his own life--he cannot be my disciple. And anyone who does not carry his cross and follow me cannot be my disciple.
-Luke 14:25-27

[kyleb]

wonder if the people who think such ideology is wrong would consider that justification to nail a man to a cross?



[:D]

[russ_watters]

Ever since the Trade Center Massacre, I have been trying to avoid this very conclusion, that Muslims place no value on human life. And now a Muslim is telling me that it is correct! Wow. I have the same dilemna. Even after reading it I still won't accept it. I have too much faith in the human species. Maybe they are just confused or brainwashed? i am prety sure he is refering to their own lives, in the sense that good Muslim is not afraid of death. How can a person who doesn't even value his OWN life place any value on the life of others?

[kyleb]

Originally posted by russ_watters
How can a person who doesn't even value his OWN life place any value on the life of others?

you have to give up being self-centered for a start.

[russ_watters]

you have to give up being self-centered for a start. Ok, so only non-humans can be muslims? Sorry, but the PRIMARY instinct of all humans is selfishness.

[Nicool003]

This topic is almost as dumb as George W. Bush.

He is not nearly as dumb as that post Rage

[Njorl]

One Muslim does not speak for all Muslims. I'm sure many of my fellow Americans are glad one American (say me for instance) does not speak for all Americans.

I think I speak for all Americans when I say this. [;)]

Njorl

[Nicool003]

Hehe tricky one there Njorl

[LURCH]

Before jumping to any conclusions, I went to one of my own dead topics and tried to change the Title. I thought I had succeded, the title changed in the window I was viewing, but when I went back the next day, the topic still had the old title. (Just so nobody thinks Zargawee is diliberately keeping this offensive title after saying he had changed it).

Fess up now, people...I can't be the only one who went and tried this, right? But for those who haven't tried to do it yourself, I just thought the results should be stated here in public view.

[kyleb]

i assumed as much but thanks for the validation LURCH. [:))]

[eNtRopY]

You know... Zargawee is a genuine @sshole.

I'm not even including this thread. Hell, I know I don't support the war... let alone any war. I'm talking about his complete disrespect for women.

He has made it clear on several occasions that he views women as being inferior to men. He has made comments alluding to the fact that he considers women who have premarital sex to be whores.

This is not an uncommon view for Muslim men to have. Many of them violently control their women, and give them no freedom to make their own choices. In America, we call that a violation of civil rights.

Let's ask him a few questions, directly:

1) Zargawee, if you were in love with a woman, and you asked her to marry you, but later you found out she was not a virgin, would you dump her?

2) Zargawee, if you were in love with a woman, and you asked her to marry you, but later you found out she had been raped, would you dump her?

3) Zargawee, if you were in love with a woman, and you asked her to marry you, but later you had premarital sex with her, would you dump her?

4) If you broke off a relationship because of questions 1, 2 or 3, would you resort to violence?

5) Do you feel that if you broke off a relationship because of questions 1, 2 or 3, your responsive actions would be justified by your god?

Don't take this the wrong way. I'm not saying we should bomb Muslims because they are insecure with themselves and their small members. I don't think we should bomb them at all. I just wanted to point out the fact that whether or not he meant to offend us by posting that we Americans are collective morons, Zargawee is still an @sshole.

eNtRopY

[Alias]

OUCH!!!

That was sort of like the Third Mechanized Division just rolled into this thread.



(Alias makes mental note to self: Play nice with the ladies!)[6)]

[Greg Bernhardt]

This topic is way overdone. Move on.