White pride

[The_Professional]

I've heard this argument from David Duke and a bunch of other racists. That whites should have the right to be proud of their race. After all, if it's okay for blacks to be proud then so should whites. Is this a valid argument?

Why are Asian Americans allowed to say Asian pride without being branded as racists, while saying White pride has negative connotations ie.. a white, racist supremacist?

[Adam]

I'm quite proud of my own ancestry. Direct ancestry. I've got a rather spiffy family tree. As for the rest of you... you ALL belong in the zoo. :P

[Dissident Dan]

I think that all forms of racial pride are ridiculous...although in certain contexts such pride has more violent and/or oppressive tendencies.

[Dagenais]

After all, if it's okay for blacks to be proud then so should whites. Is this a valid argument?


A lot of blacks demonstrating 'black pride' are racists (to whites), but don't really realize it or care.

Just look at their TV shows. They make so many cracks about white guys, I stopped watching. A cacasian would never be able to get away with half the things they've said. Darrell Hughley the Comedian has been reprimanded before on his 'jokes', which are discriminatory. Edit: According to a commercial ABC didn't want them on their network. They moved to UPN.

Why are Asian Americans allowed to say Asian pride without being branded as racists

Asians have a less racist history compared to Caucasians AFAIK. Or even Africans.

Frankly, I think it's pretty odd when someone says something like "black/asian/white pride". Don't they have anything else to brag about aside from their race, in which they can't control?

Nationalistic pride...that's different, it's cool to be French Canadian.

Quote from Black Eyed Peas:

If you only have love for your own race
Then you only leave space to discriminate
And to discriminate only generates hate

[russ_watters]

"White pride" isn't what you think it is, Professional - its a mask for racism.

[Nec]

I've heard this argument from David Duke and a bunch of other racists. That whites should have the right to be proud of their race. After all, if it's okay for blacks to be proud then so should whites. Is this a valid argument?

Why are Asian Americans allowed to say Asian pride without being branded as racists, while saying White pride has negative connotations ie.. a white, racist supremacist?
What if a person is not really yellow and not really white like Nec, uhmm, Nec guess Nec skin color is something like that? (joke)--lol--
Hey, professional, where have you been these days ? Busy working ? nec havenot seen you for a while,,
Whats your real name ? Nec ask truthfully...

[revelator]

Racial pride causes divisions amonst people. It helps to keep people from seeing that we're pretty much similar.

[Njorl]

Pride is a very strange word. It seems to have developed too many meanings. It is a virtue and a sin (and a bunch of lions, but I think we can ignore that here).

We need a word that means "lack of shame". It confuses things that "pride" is as close as any word gets. For centuries, the vast weight of popular opinion was that being black was shameful. Blacks responded by lightening skin, straightening hair, preferring white dolls for their children etc. It was the norm for blacks to be ashamed of what they were. "Black Pride" is a response to this. It is a statement that it is just fine to be black. The same is not true for whites, or other minorities, with the exception of American Indians. Even the "White Guilt" movement never had much influence.

Njorl

[phatmonky]

"White pride" isn't what you think it is, Professional - its a mask for racism.

As is black pride, asian pride, etc.
It's just not okay to say that in our society, or you are a racist then too! :rolleyes:

[russ_watters]

As is black pride, asian pride, etc.
It's just not okay to say that in our society, or you are a racist then too! :rolleyes: 40 years ago when blacks were an oppressed minority, no - today, ehh.... depends on the group/context.

[phatmonky]

40 years ago when blacks were an oppressed minority, no - today, ehh.... depends on the group/context.

I'll compromise and go with that.

[The_Professional]

"White pride" isn't what you think it is, Professional - its a mask for racism.

As is black pride, asian pride, etc.
It's just not okay to say that in our society, or you are a racist then too! :rolleyes:

Yes, I agree

[cragwolf]

Even the "White Guilt" movement never had much influence.

Nonsense, Christianity has had a huge influence in this world.
:wink:

[Adam]

Asians have a less racist history compared to Caucasians AFAIK. Or even Africans.

You're kidding, right?

[Dagenais]

You're kidding, right?

Since when have you seen Asians produce sitcoms mocking other races? Oh wait, it's actually the other way - Asians are the target of laughter on shows like the Hughleys and King of The Hill. Do you think the Koreans will produce a sitcom targetting blacks, and get away with it?

There have been large Universities that limit the admissions of Asians due to the fact that too many are eligible and can enter. Do you think those Universities could put a limit on blacks, and get away with it? Don't deny it. There is tons of proof. (http://www.uweb.ucsb.edu/~bmaatuk/immigrants.html)

Can you give me an example of where a whole Country like China has enslaved a single, killed and tortured a single race?

Or an example of Japan taking Caucasians and forcing them to work in deadly environments for pennies?

Wasn't it the English that attacked China and distributed Opium along with other Countries?

Do I have to go on, or do you still believe Asians have a history of racism equal to other races? How about I write a rap song about how many different times their race has been screwed, and then mock other races - oh wait, not their culture.

Why do you even bother denying this? If you seriously took a look these days, it's not the Asians bringing up the racist topics or jokes. It's not them that stir up these problems in their songs. How often do they claim 'racism' like African-Americans do in the USA? I know many of you are going to reply and say that this doesn't happen, but an example would be when blacks called in to "Who Wants to Be A Millionaire" claiming that they were racists because there weren't enough blacks on the show. Despite the fact that few called. Now, how often do you see Asians whining about these things? Sure, some do but not a lot in comparison.

Asian countries like Korea, China and Japan don't have big racial issues like in North America. Maybe it's because they have less racist tendencies.

[Adam]

Since when have you seen Asians produce sitcoms mocking other races?

How many Asian sitcoms have you seen?


There have been large Universities that limit the admissions of Asians due to the fact that too many are eligible and can enter. Do you think those Universities could put a limit on blacks, and get away with it? Don't deny it. There is tons of proof. (http://www.uweb.ucsb.edu/~bmaatuk/immigrants.html)

So you're comparing the treatment of minorities within the USA with the treatment of majorities in the USA? Wow. How ethnocentric of you. Now use some sense and compare treatment of minorities in the USA to treatment of minorities in other countries.


Can you give me an example of where a whole Country like China has enslaved a single, killed and tortured a single race?

The Hand and the Yue. The Ainu and everyone else in Japan. The many migrations in India, and throughout south-east Asia. The list is as extensive as for any other region on Earth.


Or an example of Japan taking Caucasians and forcing them to work in deadly environments for pennies?

WW2. Less than pennies.


Wasn't it the English that attacked China and distributed Opium along with other Countries?

Wasn't it Japan that attacked China and totally ****ed up a generation?


Do I have to go on, or do you still believe Asians have a history of racism equal to other races? How about I write a rap song about how many different times their race has been screwed, and then mock other races - oh wait, not their culture.

Go on all you like, you're basically wrong. And this idea you have that Asians are a separate race, and somehow different from others in their behaviours, is quite telling.

[phatmonky]

wow, I've never agreed with Adam so much.

[Dagenais]

How many Asian sitcoms have you seen?


A few, actually. Their are a couple of Asian channels in Canada that broadcast them.

WW2. Less than pennies.


Are you talking about WW2, where the Americans forced the Japanese into concentration camps?

Wasn't it Japan that attacked China and totally ****ed up a generation?


No, 1800's was when China was attacked by multiple Euro Countries. Don't forget that.

And yes, Opium did f*ck up a generation.

The Hand and the Yue. The Ainu and everyone else in Japan. The many migrations in India, and throughout south-east Asia. The list is as extensive as for any other region on Earth.


You're comparing that, to America's history of going to South Africa, capturing blacks like Animals, stuffing them onto a boat, then selling them as slaves?

That's ridiculous.

wow, I've never agreed with Adam so much.

Let me guess, American? In denial.

Asians are a separate race

Thanks for pointing that out - so is every other major race.

and somehow different from others in their behaviours, is quite telling.

Different races tend to have different cultures, behaviors and do tend to be different.

Stop f*cking acting like everyone's the exact same, because you're just hiding yourself in sick denial.

Complete Denial (http://www.anu.edu.au/~u9902418/racism.html)

Now, when did China pull something like this off against Australia? (http://members.optusnet.com.au/~griff52/Shadow%20of%20mill.rtf)

[kat]

Cambodia is one good example of Asian racism. The ethnic cleansing of Vietnamese by Lon Nol's Republican Army and then later Pol pots ethnic cleansing.

In Malaysia there is still government sponsored discrimination against malaysian born chinese.

[Adam]

Are you talking about WW2, where the Americans forced the Japanese into concentration camps?

I'm talking about WW2, when the Japanese worked Australians to death.


No, 1800's was when China was attacked by multiple Euro Countries. Don't forget that.

Obviously you are unaware of the episode to which I am referring. Get on to Google and search for "rape of Nanking".


You're comparing that, to America's history of going to South Africa, capturing blacks like Animals, stuffing them onto a boat, then selling them as slaves?
That's ridiculous.

Ah... One completely subjugated the other.


Let me guess, American? In denial.

Phatmonky has a pathological need to disagree with me. That he agreed with me in this thread should tell you something.


Thanks for pointing that out - so is every other major race.

Well, perhaps you should discuss this point in the Biology forum, although it has been thoroughly covered many times already.

[Adam]

You know, in my travels through Asia, North America, and Australia, I found that people everywhere are basically the same. Many of them are fruitcakes and a***holes, regardless of what they look like or what language they use. No matter where you go, the minorities always face similar problems.

[Dagenais]

Cambodia is one good example of Asian racism. The ethnic cleansing of Vietnamese by Lon Nol's Republican Army and then later Pol pots ethnic cleansing.



I knew you would mention Cambodia, since many things have gone wrong there.

Pol pot's a maniac, I read a book about his 'run' written firsthand by a woman in the middle of it during the time she was just a kid. His wishes of killing all not from Cambodia was apart of the war (in which he claimed was for Communisium).

America had things similar. The Civil War was in part due to racism, and blacks were thrown into the front line.

Cambodia has had many problems, and the poor (farmers) were feeling angry. They weren't like other Countries who just killed and enslaved for the hell of it.

Japanese invasion of China and the sacking of its capital c

They were in part so f*cking defenseless because China was a country broken apart.

China was as weak as ever, and Japan was strong, they just so happened to catch China during one of it's most horrible times.

You can thank Europe for that, look up Opium war, which was responsible for tearing China apart. Now, can you give me an example of where China did something as horrible to a major European Country?

Edit Actually, read this (This may be nitpicky, but every example here is of Asians enslaving and killing other Asians. That is not racism. That is xenophobia.).

[recon]

In Malaysia there is still government sponsored discrimination against malaysian born chinese.

There's a lot of discrimination towards Chinese in Brunei too, the main race here being Malay. Sure it pisses everybody off; you would be if you've lived here all your life but the government still denies you citizenship just because you are not Malay (or Muslim). But it's a price we have to pay for moving here from China in the first place.

[loseyourname]

This may be nitpicky, but every example here is of Asians enslaving and killing other Asians. That is not racism. That is xenophobia.

[recon]

I've always found that the term Asian is a bit too broad. It covers just too many races.

[ku]

White people should not be proud of their race as Asians should not be proud of their race. Racial pride is wrong.

See Asian Pride is Wrong (http://www.geocities.com/arkayz_bible/asian-pride.html)

[russ_watters]

Asian countries like Korea, China and Japan don't have big racial issues like in North America. Maybe it's because they have less racist tendencies. To maybe clarify a point of contention here: The reason they don't have internal racial issues is that they are more homogeneous than we are. Most of their racial issues (as already stated) are external.

Korea, Japan, and China (the only ones I know much about) have intense racial hatred of each other. Its beyond the nationalism of the West in the first half of this century.

[russ_watters]

This may be nitpicky, but every example here is of Asians enslaving and killing other Asians. That is not racism. That is xenophobia.Well...I've always found that the term Asian is a bit too broad. It covers just too many races. Yeah. I generally can't tell the difference between a Japanese and a Chinese or Korean, but to them, the difference is huge. This may be mixing racism with nationalism (as is often the case anyway), but its quite real.

[Dagenais]

Korea, Japan, and China (the only ones I know much about) have intense racial hatred of each other

They are all Asians.

And sadly, if Japan and Korea hate China, they have a problem with themselves since their whole culture was inspired by China.

That's not racism, it's nationalistic discrimination.

Some Quebecois can't stand Ontarians. Is that racism? No, it's discrimination - difference.

[Nereid]

Well, perhaps you should discuss this point in the Biology forum, although it has been thoroughly covered many times already.
Social Sciences (http://www.physicsforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=85) seems to have more threads on 'race' than Biology ... probably due to serious confusion over the meaning of the word. If you dig into how it's used - including on this thread - you'll likely see its primary meaning is something like 'clearly identifiable social group, but not a religious, caste, class, or gender one'. Emnity between within-state social groups is not uniquely a factor in the US, nor is friction between nation states solely (or largely?) driven by inter-group hostility.

Other than lots of inter-ethnic group mixed marriages, what else could we do to turn down the heat?

[Dissident Dan]

Many Japanese thought that they were the master race during WW2. They thought that not only were they superior to other Asians, but whites and blacks, as well.

[revelator]

Being half-asian, I can say without doubt that some asians are just as racist as anybody else. Sadly to say, I have relatives who are prejudiced against a variety of different peoples.

You know, in my travels through Asia, North America, and Australia, I found that people everywhere are basically the same. Many of them are fruitcakes and a***holes, regardless of what they look like or what language they use. No matter where you go, the minorities always face similar problems.

That's exactly right. Every race of people has it's share of bigots and such.

[Dagenais]

They thought that not only were they superior to other Asians

They were superior to themselves? :rolleyes:

[Janitor]

Rev. Jesse Jackson used to host a show on one of the news channels--I can't remember if it was CNN, but it might have been. He interviewed David Duke one time, and I got a good chuckle out of it. The two of them said pretty much the same thing, if only you mentally reversed "black" and "white" whenever those words came into play. (E.g. "This nation was built primarily from the toil of black\white people." Or, "Without the inventiveness of black\white people, we would be a third-rate power.")

[ku]

And sadly, if Japan and Korea hate China, they have a problem with themselves since their whole culture was inspired by China. When you think about it, all cultures have a common ancestor.

Bottom line: race is meaningless. Read the site below:

http://www.strauss.za.com/phl/ar_rcsm_1963.html

"A genius is a genius, regardless of the number of morons who belong to the same race - and a moron is a moron, regardless of the number of geniuses who share his racial origin." —Ayn Rand

"Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind." —Albert Einstein

[Physicist5]

Well, I have to first say that the whole concept of "pride" seems very childish to me, something I would only expect in children: "Daddy, look, I made my bed, are you proud of me?"

But, if we are going to put forth the argument that pride is a good adult emotion, do Whites have anything to be proud of? Well, I believe MOST Whites don't, after all, only a very tiny percentage of Whites were great scientists, the majority of Whites have done pretty much nothing except live off the fame of that very small percentage of Whites that have done great things.

Is there a double standard in racial pride? I believe so. Consider Japan which only gives citizenship to Japanese because they want to preserve their ethnic and cultural heritage. Same in Israel: only ethnic Jews are allowed to immigrate there for the same reason: to preserve the Jewish ethnic and cultural heritage. So then, is it then also okey for Whites to also want to preserve their ethnic and cultural heritage? Well, if it's considered okey for the Jews and the Japanese, then I think it should be okey for Whites as well. Here is an interesting article on the racial pride double standard:

What is Racism

Everyone talks about "racism" but no one ever defines it. AR's assistant editor has given it a try.

By Thomas Jackson

There is surely no nation in the world that holds "racism" in greater horror than does the United States. Compared to other kinds of offenses, it is thought to be somehow more reprehensible. The press and public have become so used to tales of murder, rape, robbery, and arson, that any but the most spectacular crimes are shrugged off as part of the inevitable texture of American life. "Racism" is never shrugged off.

For example, when a white Georgetown Law School student reports that black students are less well qualified than white students, it sets off a booming, national controversy about "racism." If the student had merely murdered someone he would have attracted far less attention and criticism.

Racism is, indeed, the national obsession. Universities are on full alert for it, newspapers and politicians denounce it, churches preach against it, America is said to be racked with it, but just what is racism?

The complete article is at http://www.amren.com/917issue/9107issue.html#cover

[Adam]

Well, I have to first say that the whole concept of "pride" seems very childish to me, something I would only expect in children: "Daddy, look, I made my bed, are you proud of me?"

Nothing at all wrong with pride. If we didn't attach a positive feeling to doing something well, everything would be done with the minimum effort, and we would not produce anything exceptional. Such as the internet.


But, if we are going to put forth the argument that pride is a good adult emotion, do Whites have anything to be proud of? Well, I believe MOST Whites don't, after all, only a very tiny percentage of Whites were great scientists, the majority of Whites have done pretty much nothing except live off the fame of that very small percentage of Whites that have done great things.

This applies to all groups of people, everywhere. Why do you focus on "Whites"?

[franznietzsche]

Nothing at all wrong with pride. If we didn't attach a positive feeling to doing something well, everything would be done with the minimum effort, and we would not produce anything exceptional. Such as the internet.


This applies to all groups of people, everywhere. Why do you focus on "Whites"?

to part 1: That's the American way. Why do today, what you can half-*** tomorrow?


to part 2: because he's racist

[phatmonky]

to part 1: That's the American way. Why do today, what you can half-*** tomorrow?


Oh really? That's quite an ignorant statement.

[Physicist5]

Nothing at all wrong with pride. If we didn't attach a positive feeling to doing something well, everything would be done with the minimum effort, and we would not produce anything exceptional. Such as the internet.

Of course, the types of scenarios that evoke the emotion of pride in the human brain is completely arbitrary: some rapists may be proud of the elaborate plotting they use.

[Physicist5]

I've heard this argument from David Duke and a bunch of other racists. That whites should have the right to be proud of their race.

David Duke is a walking corpse, his whole movement died decades ago: http://www.davidduke.org/

Today, we have a completely new generation of intellectual "racists" such as:

-Professor Kevin MacDonald: http://www.csulb.edu/~kmacd/

-Professor J. Philippe Rushton: http://www.ssc.uwo.ca/psychology/faculty/rushton_bio.htm

-Professor Richard Lynn: http://www.rlynn.co.uk/

-Professor Linda S. Gottfredson: http://www.udel.edu/educ/gottfredson/

-Professor Arthur Jensen: http://www.mugu.com/cgi-bin/Upstream/Jensen?embedded=yes&cumulative_category_title=Introduction;Authors+and +Intellectuals&cumulative_category_id=Root;Authors

-Professor Chris Brand: http://www.crispian.demon.co.uk/index1.htm and http://www.cycad.com/cgi-bin/Brand/index.html

-Jared Taylor: http://www.amren.com/

-John Bryant: http://www.thebirdman.org/

-Patrick J. Buchanan: http://www.amconmag.com/

-The Vdare.com intellectual staff: John Brimelow, Peter Brimelow, Joseph E. Fallon, James Fulford, Joe Guzzardi, Juan Mann, Scott McConnell, Paul Craig Roberts, Steve Sailer, Howard Sutherland, Brenda Walker, Allan Wall, John Wall, and Chilton Williamson Jr.: http://www.vdare.com/

-David Irving: http://www.fpp.co.uk/online/index.html

-Marian Van Court: http://www.eugenics.net/

Jeff Rense: http://www.rense.com/

Transtopia organization: http://www.transtopia.org/

And many more. I don't know why media giants completely ignore the new intellectual generation while only focusing on organizations that are long dead such as the Ku Klux Klan, the American National Socialist Association, and the International Skinheads Brotherhood. I think it's because the new generation are very intellectual and would be very convincing to the masses, so the media elites decide to act dishonest by only providing coverage to the "crazy groups."

[Adam]

Are you proud of that list of links?

[Dagenais]

Okay, so you offer us a list of "white power/pride" organizations and leaders. The KKK, Skinheads etc. are examples of white superiority groups.

The major african-american group that deals with racism is the well-known Black Panthers.

Now, can you name an Asian group?

No? That's because they're less racist.

[Adam]

Now, can you name an Asian group?

http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&q=racism+in+japan&btnG=Search&meta=

That's just Japan. Pick a country and do a search.

[Dagenais]

By some estimates as many as 6,000 people (mostly ethnic Koreans and some Chinese) were murdered after rumors spread that foreigners were poisoning wells and starting fires

Adam, Koreans and Chinese, and Japanese are Asians. Same race, different Countries.

They mention foreigners, as in what? Different Nationalities? That's nationalistic discrimination not racism.

Now, is this a racist group? Or are they just indiscriminate examples of discrimination?

[Adam]

Slap your parents for me.

[Physicist5]

No? That's because they're less racist.

Actually, Whites are the least ethnocenric race: it has to do with their evolutionary past: Whites evolved in very dispersed and patchy populations: selection for tribalism to fight other tribes was rare since White tribes lived far away from each other: there was more selection for creativity and individualism. Other races though had a lot more dense populations and fighting each other and forming ethnocentric tribal units was more important, esp. in the Middle East. This is researched in Maladaptive Altruism: Western Culture in Decline: http://home.comcast.net/~neoeugenics/host.htm

"Altruism and its variance in population groups

I will use the term altruism as meaning the caring for others in the band or tribe or beyond. Today altruists would be viewed as the bleeding heart liberal, egalitarians, compassionate people, do-gooders, and those people who excessively cry over the hardship of others, no matter how remote they are genetically or physically from the altruist. How could this possibly be? Where did evolution go wrong? This altruism contradicts the concept of competing alleles in the vehicles of kin who are alike. Well, that makes it in terms of evolution a maladaptation under the current environment. It is giving benefit to those genetic alleles that are not common in the altruist's genome.

"When humans evolved, they did so in an environment of competing bands of people. As group evolutionary strategies evolved, altruism towards the group was beneficial, along with genocidal hatred for other competing groups and fanatical aggressiveness or bravery when it came to defending the tribe, what we call today patriotism and how we define heroes or martyrdom. The tribe, as a unified vehicle carrying more of the alleles for these traits competed with neighboring tribes, the more aggressive, genocidal, cohesive and intelligent tribe on average eliminated the lesser tribe (sometimes of course taking hostages). But slowly, humans that had bloodlust displaced the more peaceful tribes around them, and step-by-step humans became adapted for patriotism towards the group. Individualism was suppressed and cohesiveness became predominant. But all was not equal between different tribes.

"The Environment of Evolutionary Adaptation

Our ancestors stayed put over thousands of years and developed under vary different environments. For example, xenophobia, group cohesion, tribal conflict, ethnocentrism was heightened in groups that evolved where people were in competition for resources and lived closer together. From Asia to the Mediterranean for example, more people could be supported by the natural resources available. There were many more people, more tribes, and more conflicts. Evolutionary pressures pushed competing groups towards higher frequencies of genetic alleles that favored aggressiveness against one's neighbor. Constant wars and conflicts accelerated this process, producing on average people who today would score much high on ethnocentrism and would have little time for helping or tolerating exploitation by the other. Weak and peaceful tribes were either killed or enslaved.

"At the other extreme for example, northwestern Europeans evolved in an extremely harsh environment, one that was glaciated about 10,000 years ago, and supported very few people. Neighboring tribes were not close together, population density was low, and tribal conflict less salient than planning and making provisions for the long harsh winters. In fact, it would be easy to imagine that coming across unknown and relatively altruistic neighbors was live saving. These people evolved in an environment that nurtured compassion for the stranger, because often strangers were a needed resource and not a threat. The greatest threat came from the harsh winters, not from competing tribes. So altruism flourished over xenophobia and fear of the other. High frequencies of alleles for altruism, compassion, tolerance, and benevolence towards all were selected for. But within reason of course. As long as the other did not appear as a threat, reciprocal altruism was selected for over intolerance.

[russ_watters]

Adam, Koreans and Chinese, and Japanese are Asians. Same race, different Countries. We've had this discussion before. To them those are different races. What constitutes a race depends on who you ask. For a parallel, check the biology forum for how hard it is to distinguish white/latino depending on the different definitions.

[hawaiidude]

hi all..asian pride is bad ..in many palces , people use it. the funny thing is asian americans tend to use it alot. peopel frm japan and stuff nnever use it.As a japanese citizen, i think many people manipulate asian pride.and there is tensions between jaanese and chinese. As 1/2 chiense and Japanese, i can clearly see cultural and ethnic differences. It is, however, if all asians looked alike, they wouldnt get into these conflicts. It must be the fact asians can tell between various coutnries people that these hate crimes are rising in Asia. i think their ethnic pride is what lead wars. For example, NAzi believed themselves to be superior to jews and killed 6million. I think race pride is wrong and seriously consequences such as cleansing might occur again if people dont learn to cooperate or the fate of many people will be dommed for no good reason.

[jcsd]

The racism in Japan and China is much more endemic than it is even in the US (for example in Japan there are laws for thing slike medical testing that enshrine the predujice that the japanese are somehow disntict from the rest of the human race even thoguh there is absolutely no medical evidnece to justify these laws), that's simply cultural.

That article from neoeugenics is a load of bollocks though.

[hawaiidude]

We've had this discussion before. To them those are different races. What constitutes a race depends on who you ask. For a parallel, check the biology forum for how hard it is to distinguish white/latino depending on the different definitions.


they think they are ifferent and they look different

[hawaiidude]

also many chiense people in Jpan cahnge last name, change their names and even change their language btu they aer still discriminated. But japanese people can still tell apart from them and japanese so they wstill get discriminated . Mos are discriminated because they commit crimes

[SOS2008]

Racial pride causes divisions amonst people. It helps to keep people from seeing that we're pretty much similar.

To this point I posted a speech by Richard Lamm entitled "How To Destroy America" (or any country for that matter) under "Immigration And The Unmentionable Question of Ethnic Interests."

In response to the question posed: Perhaps the real question isn't about racial pride, but rather can there be reverse discrimination? Absolutely. I've had Hispanic clients demand we hire a bilingual employee in our office, otherwise they will not do business with us.

I once thought this is because many people in the Hispanic community need translation while learning English...Until two Hispanic clients said they do not believe these people should ever learn English. In other words, as the Hispanic population grows (via illegal entry into the US), Spanish not only should be a second language, but perhaps should completely replace English.

Furthermore, racism can be even more intense within the same race (lighter versus darker blacks, etc.). And in the meantime, one of these Hispanic individuals regularly over charges his Spanish-speaking clients, who don't know the difference because they can't speak English. If they really care about their own race, they would want these people to assimilate and advance the way immigrants before them have done (i.e., the rest of the nation).

[Astronuc]

The OP concerns 'White Pride', but parallel ideas have developed along the lines of whether one or another racial or ethnic group is more or less 'racist' or 'ethnist/ethnocentric'.

Whatever happened to the virtue of 'humility'? Why promote 'pride', especially pride for one's racial or ethnic group?

Why not promote love, care and concern for 'all' of humanity?

[selfAdjoint]

Whatever happened to the virtue of 'humility'? Why promote 'pride', especially pride for one's racial or ethnic group?

Why not promote love, care and concern for 'all' of humanity?


Famous story. An old and beloved anthropologist was asked, "Can any group of humans live in peace?" She thought for a moment and replied "Yes, if they have another group of people to despise."

Our primate ancestors ran in bands; we run in tribes. There is no evolved force tending to make peace between bands of chimps or tribes of humans. We have to do it on culture alone, and culture is variable.

[scholar]

Now, can you name an Asian group?

No? That's because they're less racist.

Go to Japan. In the smaller cities (not Tokyo, they are used to foreigners), many Japanese people will refuse to sit next to you on a crowded train, leaving one or more empty seats between themselves and you. Japanese soldiers tortured and worked Allied prisoners of war (australians, chinese, british, new zealanders) to death in concentration camps. Working on a railway through Burma and Thailand, the prisoners had to try and catch monkeys to eat for survival - thousands died.

Asians are far more racist than whites. White people have been exposed to a variety of different cultures their whole lives (especially the younger ones), and don't have many of the prejudices.

Here at least whites are the least racist people. If white people are racist where you live, then that is a problem with your country or area, and is not an inherent fault in all people of European descent.

Everyone should be proud of their ancestory. If not, what is the point of celebrating differences?

[The_Professional]

Asians are far more racist than whites. White people have been exposed to a variety of different cultures their whole lives (especially the younger ones), and don't have many of the prejudices.


I strongly disagree :uhh:

[Smurf]

Slap your parents for me.
:rofl: Yay! Adam's Back!! :!!) :surprised :biggrin: :bugeye: :tongue2: :yuck: :eek: :tongue:

[Smurf]

Famous story. An old and beloved anthropologist was asked, "Can any group of humans live in peace?" She thought for a moment and replied "Yes, if they have another group of people to despise.".....What? That's it? You said "famous story" and I sat down on my cushion with my hot chocolate all ready for a story before bed and this is all I get? What's it famous for it's only 3 lines long!

[chound]

Asians are far more racist than whites. White people have been exposed to a variety of different cultures their whole lives (especially the younger ones), and don't have many of the prejudices.
Scholar look at your own country. http://twm.co.nz/NZracism.htm
o:)

[Icebreaker]

also many chiense people in Jpan cahnge last name, change their names and even change their language btu they aer still discriminated. But japanese people can still tell apart from them and japanese so they wstill get discriminated . Mos are discriminated because they commit crimes

Are you saying most Chinese immigrants in Japan commit crimes?

This is sad, here we sit boasting our ego over the ever slight differences in our DNA makeup when we could be doing mathematics.

[hawaiidude]

Are you saying most Chinese immigrants in Japan commit crimes?

This is sad, here we sit boasting our ego over the ever slight differences in our DNA makeup when we could be doing mathematics.

No, its probbaly just another excuse. However, other countries are pretty racist also. For example, in Europe, anti-semitism is rising and also hate against muslims is o nthe rise, too. I think it doesnt matter where you go, people will always be hated for their biological make up even thoguh we are all basically the same.

[selfAdjoint]

This is sad, here we sit boasting our ego over the ever slight differences in our DNA makeup when we could be doing mathematics.



Ain't that the sad and sorry truth!

[plus]

For example, in Europe, anti-semitism is rising and also hate against muslims is o nthe rise, too. I think it doesnt matter where you go, people will always be hated for their biological make up even thoguh we are all basically the same.

What you are describing is opposition to religions and not racism. You should also mention that anti christian feeling is also present, as demonstrated by the forced resignation of Buttiglione as EU statesman.

[jcsd]

No, its probbaly just another excuse. However, other countries are pretty racist also. For example, in Europe, anti-semitism is rising and also hate against muslims is o nthe rise, too. I think it doesnt matter where you go, people will always be hated for their biological make up even thoguh we are all basically the same.

Antisemtism is not a major problem (thoguh it does exist) in Western Europe nor has it seen any real resurgence, the main vitims of racism in Europe are recent immigrants many if not most of them Muslims (though one of the major problems is the victimization of the Romany in Slovakia).

As fo Buttliglione he was not forced to resign because he was a Christian, but becasue he had made previous comments that severely conmpromised his credibilty for the postion which he was up for.

[misskitty]

Racism is going to exsist no matter what part of the world you travel to. It is always there; amoung every ethnicity, faith, country or organization. Racism is similar to stress, you can't live with it but you can't get rid of it either. No matter what we try to do, there will be someone somewhere who is a racist.

It isn't going to matter who is of what ethnicity, because there is going to be someone who thinks they are better than someone else for whatever reason. It springs from hatred. You can't get rid of hatred any more than you can get rid of stess.

I'm not condoning racism. I dislike it just as much as the next person. I think it should be erradicted from the face of the earth. People should be viewed on their values and character, not what they look like or what religion they follow. People shouldn't be judged, however that is improbable because its human nature. We shouldn't allow children to pursue judgemental behaviors. Unfortunately, many parents don't teach their children this because it was instilled in the values and ethics they were taught as children. They believe it to be the proper thing to do and there is no other way to look at it. Problems spring when there are confrontations with other people who were taught to be unbiased and believe no one should be judged. We can't be with our children all the time holding their hands all day long. All we can do is attempt to instill unbiased morals and hope for the best. Other than that there is not much else we can do.

It doesn't matter who is more racist. Its a trivial and irrelevent point. They're racist. Bottomline. No contest exsists with the simple question of who can be more racist?

Racism is a problem. By encouraging unbiased, equal behavior we can attempt to minimalize the issue. It is doubtful that it will ever completely go away. It just goes back to a comment I made earlier; It doesn't matter where in the world you are, there will always be someone who is racist.

[plus]

Antisemtism is not a major problem (thoguh it does exist) in Western Europe nor has it seen any real resurgence, the main vitims of racism in Europe are recent immigrants many if not most of them Muslims (though one of the major problems is the victimization of the Romany in Slovakia).

The immigrants, being a minority are certainly more vulnerable to racism than the indiginous peoples of europe. However, I do remember reading a statistic (cannot remember where I read it or even guarantee its truth) that said that in Britain there were more indiginous British victims of racism than there were immigrant victims. This can be explained in that many of the recent immigrants come from war torn countries where people identify strongly with a particular group and despise outsiders. They may hate British for reasons ranging from colonial rule to the war in Iraq to their liberal social ideals (e.g. allowing women to sleep around). The indiginous British have been told from the moment they are born that racism is wrong.



As fo Buttliglione he was not forced to resign because he was a Christian, but becasue he had made previous comments that severely conmpromised his credibilty for the postion which he was up for.


His comments were related to his religion.

[Bladibla]

We've had this discussion before. To them those are different races. What constitutes a race depends on who you ask. For a parallel, check the biology forum for how hard it is to distinguish white/latino depending on the different definitions.

I'm korean, and i have to say there is some truth in this statement.

There are some people in our country (minority) who are racist against other asian countries, such as Japan and China. There are many vocabulary that the minority of us use that is somewhat similar to 'negro' but obviusly in a different context.

I won't go as far to say that Racism in Europe is worst, as we are, in the end, just humans who will always have prejudices and hatred. But Racism seems to be a lot more noticeable than in asia.

You can't necessarily say that is a bad thing though. Because it just comes to show the responsible people of Europe do care about whether their countries (enter society) is racist, and will use brute force to take care of it or make it notified so that people won't tread their path. (by no means am i saying all of europe is racist)

In asia (or at least oriental countries) this is different. The 'free speech' we have in asian countries arn't the ones like in Europe or america. People in korea (some of them) act racist, but don't know they are, and the people who are listening to them also don't relise that they are being racist.

[ray b]

there is reverce racism too
as a wasp working in a goverment job in miami

only latins or blacks get the promotions NOW


btw Antisemtism is a misnamed idea
most jew haters are nuts but they are religion based bias not race
and chargeing an arab who hates zionists with being Antisemtic is a bad joke

[kaos]

Anyway regarding racial pride, i think most of us are just proud to be who we are and our own culture(that is, not being ashamed of our own race) not necessarily boasting about superiority.U see, we asians have had the bitter experience of being inferior to the west and have developed an inferiority complex.There are some asians who do not want to have anything to do with their own culture.Asian pride is mostly about preserving ones culture despite the seemingly superior culture of the west.

[misskitty]

Kaos, what you say does make sense. It really does and I'm not going to knock that because I do respect it. I must say that in attempting to perserve their culture, some people present it more as "We're preserving our culture because ours is worth preserving and yours isn't." I can not (and will not) say that is true for all Asians, because obviously it isn't.

Racism doesn't just spread from outside the home. Part of what can make racism difficult to combat is when there is racism within a family. For example, a father being racist against his daughter's fiancee. How are you supposed to think/teach otherwise when all you can get are examples of what NOT to do?

I don't know if it makes sense...I tried to articulate what I was thinking...:blush:

[klusener]

Anyway regarding racial pride, i think most of us are just proud to be who we are and our own culture(that is, not being ashamed of our own race) not necessarily boasting about superiority.U see, we asians have had the bitter experience of being inferior to the west and have developed an inferiority complex.There are some asians who do not want to have anything to do with their own culture.Asian pride is mostly about preserving ones culture despite the seemingly superior culture of the west.

exactly, because Asia was colonized for so long by the West, there is a general inferiority complex among the masses, there is a certain reverence for whiteness (white is beautiful, etc..), for example the popular actresses who appear on tv commercials deviate from normal people in terms of fairness.. All these people try to act like westerners, because that's the only way they will succeed. But this colonization has also bred a group who try to defeat this inferiority complex by being conscious and having pride in their past (before colonization) this not racism, because they don't put down the races that colonized them, but at the same time, they have this feeling of "you can't put me down either, because even i come from a country with an ancient past of many wonders, etc.."

i think that this one of the miracles of India, because there was no backlash against the British, look at every other country, France, US, China, Algeria, everybody who was once colonized took up arms in rage against their colonizers, and india just simply refused to fight and forgave the British... Some might credit this to gandhi and hinduism (satyagraha, ahimsa, etc..) but I definitely feel that most of the people had an inferiority complex.. But times are changing..

[plus]

there is a certain reverence for whiteness (white is beautiful, etc..), for example the popular actresses who appear on tv commercials deviate from normal people in terms of fairness..



This has more to do with the racist caste system imposed by the northern indians rather than trying to look european.

I am pleased that there was not any backlash against the British, though I feel very threatened by the prospect of it now. My great great great grandparents were not even born when India was colonised, so why should I be subject to nationalistic insults?

[plus]

Kaos, what you say does make sense. It really does and I'm not going to knock that because I do respect it. I must say that in attempting to perserve their culture, some people present it more as "We're preserving our culture because ours is worth preserving and yours isn't." I can not (and will not) say that is true for all Asians, because obviously it isn't.

Racism doesn't just spread from outside the home. Part of what can make racism difficult to combat is when there is racism within a family. For example, a father being racist against his daughter's fiancee. How are you supposed to think/teach otherwise when all you can get are examples of what NOT to do?

I don't know if it makes sense...I tried to articulate what I was thinking...:blush:


A father objecting to his daughter marrying someone of different race is justified, and not an evil part of racism. He is just trying to preserve his race/ culture. You objecting to this means that you think that there is no culture worth preserving. Whether the father is european or african, or arabic or asian, it makes no difference to this argument.

[loseyourname]

A father objecting to his daughter marrying someone of different race is justified, and not an evil part of racism. He is just trying to preserve his race/ culture. You objecting to this means that you think that there is no culture worth preserving. Whether the father is european or african, or arabic or asian, it makes no difference to this argument.

It could just be that she thinks who a woman marries should be the woman's choice and not her father's. Granted, she hardly presented it that way. Personally, I've never understood why anyone has any desire to preserve a certain culture or tradition simply because it is "theirs." Why not just preserve ethical behavior and working social structures, good food, etc., regardless of the specific ethnic group it is typically associated with? So what if your grandchildren have a drastically different last name than you do and don't observe your customs? Shouldn't they be able to think for themselves and decide how they want to behave, not simply behave a certain way because it is culturally prescribed?

[kaos]

." Why not just preserve ethical behavior and working social structures, good food, etc., regardless of the specific ethnic group it is typically associated with? So what if your grandchildren have a drastically different last name than you do and don't observe your customs? Shouldn't they be able to think for themselves and decide how they want to behave, not simply behave a certain way because it is culturally prescribed?"

LOseyourname, i see your point.In malaysia there are 3 (ethnicity)main races, malays,chinese and indian.There are more interacial marriages nowadays than in the past and this usually cause a lot of conflict. Mainly , the problem with preserving ones culture is the clash of tradition with the realities of the present.I as well as most of the people i know agree that culture is important but we will have to adapt it to more modern ideals as well as having respect for other cultures and individuals.However there are the racists and the close minded people that fight under the excuse of tradition and culture ( us versus them) even in governmets. And i also believe that individualism is important. Asian culture usually places the individual as less important than the society and this breeds confomity.

[misskitty]

A father objecting to his daughter marrying someone of different race is justified, and not an evil part of racism. He is just trying to preserve his race/ culture. You objecting to this means that you think that there is no culture worth preserving. Whether the father is european or african, or arabic or asian, it makes no difference to this argument.


Please do not put words in my mouth. I never said I thought that there was no race worth saving or preserving. What I was trying to get across was that it isn't right to judge someone who makes a family member happy based on how they look or what culture they are from. There are ways of preserving a culture through what you share and not how you look. I never said that there was no race that was worth preserving.

[misskitty]

It could just be that she thinks who a woman marries should be the woman's choice and not her father's. Granted, she hardly presented it that way. Personally, I've never understood why anyone has any desire to preserve a certain culture or tradition simply because it is "theirs." Why not just preserve ethical behavior and working social structures, good food, etc., regardless of the specific ethnic group it is typically associated with? So what if your grandchildren have a drastically different last name than you do and don't observe your customs? Shouldn't they be able to think for themselves and decide how they want to behave, not simply behave a certain way because it is culturally prescribed?


This is part of what I was attempting to convey.

[plus]

I never said that there was no race that was worth preserving.

It derives from what you said.

A father (usually) devotes many many years and much effort into bringing up a child. He has at least the right to voice opposition to the child marrying someone he does not like. He has the right to voice opposition to a child marrying someone from another culture.

[misskitty]

I never said it. You derived from it what you wanted to. Thats my fault simply because I failed to clearly articulate my position. However, I never said there was no race worht preserving. Go back and read my next post where I quoted Loseyourname.

[Zantra]

I've heard this argument from David Duke and a bunch of other racists. That whites should have the right to be proud of their race. After all, if it's okay for blacks to be proud then so should whites. Is this a valid argument?

Why are Asian Americans allowed to say Asian pride without being branded as racists, while saying White pride has negative connotations ie.. a white, racist supremacist?

because asian and african americans don't run around hiding behind white sheets, burning crosses and using violence to support thier beliefs.

edit: a good comparison is the anti-abortion extremists who bomb clinics and kill doctors. Someone with a belief will advocate, but nothing is scarier than someone with a cause.

[misskitty]

Definitely a valid point. I think part of why Asian and African Americans can say African American or Asian Pride, is because they are also targets of The KKK. Which I think is a disgraceful organization, but thats my opinion. Pride for whatever race isn't the most horrible thing, however, there needs to be a limit to how prideful one should be.

You shouldn't take pride to a point where you'd be infringing on another's right to be happy and prosperous.

[Zantra]

racism definitely exists in asian culture. I know several aquaintences who are japanese/chinese, and the racism is there.

racial pride is a sad crutch of the weak and foolish. Judging someone on thier race shows a total lack of intelligence, and rationalization of fears and inadequecies. I have no respect, patience, or time for racists, and I personally think we should just throw racists in a pit, dump gasoline on them and light a match- the world would be a better place.

Not wanting someone to marry because of race to preseve racial traditions and heritage is pointless. History will preserve them. Restricting someone's personal choices because of race is pointless. As someone pointed out earlier we all have a common ancestry. We are human beings.

This whole thread saddens me and reminds me that as a civilization we have so far to go.

[kaos]

"racial pride is a sad crutch of the weak and foolish. Judging someone on thier race shows a total lack of intelligence, and rationalization of fears and inadequecies. I have no respect, patience, or time for racists, and I personally think we should just throw racists in a pit, dump gasoline on them and light a match- the world would be a better place."

Like i said before, there are reasons for some to havr racial pride.U should distinguish racial pride from racism.


"History will preserve them. Restricting someone's personal choices because of race is pointless. As someone pointed out earlier we all have a common ancestry. We are human beings."

I wouldn't rely on history to preserve my culture, many cultures have already dissapeared from the world and history did prove that( for example Mayan,Hittite). Our culture wont survive if we just didn't do anything to preserve it.
Why cant we preserve our culture and yet be respectful of other. However regarding marriage (as well as many other things)i think we can be flexible and be accepting of others as well. There are problems with interracial marriages but that are not easy to resolve ( i know couples in inter racial marriages in malysia).Both members of the marriage will have to compromise. I think regarding interactions between people of different cultures, compromise and tolerance should be practicesd.

[misskitty]

racism definitely exists in asian culture. I know several aquaintences who are japanese/chinese, and the racism is there.

I'm not saying that racism doesn't exsist in Asian cultures, because it definitely does. Racism exsists everywhere, no matter where you go. In some areas racism is more intense and concentrated than in others. Racism definitely exsists between Asians of different backgorunds.

racial pride is a sad crutch of the weak and foolish. Judging someone on thier race shows a total lack of intelligence, and rationalization of fears and inadequecies. I have no respect, patience, or time for racists, and I personally think we should just throw racists in a pit, dump gasoline on them and light a match- the world would be a better place.

I can agree with this. I wasn't saying be a racist when I mentioned be proud of your race. I was going more for be proud of your heritage because it is part of whatmakes you who you are. I wasn't advocating that you should rub it in other peoples' faces and make them feel worthless. I didn't even say you should tell anyone else your background if you don't want to.

Not wanting someone to marry because of race to preseve racial traditions and heritage is pointless. History will preserve them. Restricting someone's personal choices because of race is pointless. As someone pointed out earlier we all have a common ancestry. We are human beings.

This is true. Unfortunately, practices like this still go on because people don always realize this fact. Thats their own fault they thinkthey are so special and above everyone else they feel they have the authority to dictate other peoples' lives.

[plus]

Definitely a valid point. I think part of why Asian and African Americans can say African American or Asian Pride, is because they are also targets of The KKK. Which I think is a disgraceful organization, but thats my opinion. Pride for whatever race isn't the most horrible thing, however, there needs to be a limit to how prideful one should be.

You shouldn't take pride to a point where you'd be infringing on another's right to be happy and prosperous.


The KKK is a terrorist organisation and should not be compared to having pride in European ancestry. Similarly neither should the Nazi party provide a comparison.
Whether the KKK exists or not is nothing to do with Asians/ Africans having pride in their race as it has little influence upon society. African pride is less threatening to other races as in USA there are less africans than europeans in the nation. Thus african racism against european goes more or less unchecked whereas there is strong social stigma attached to european racism.

[misskitty]

The KKK is a terrorist organisation and should not be compared to having pride in European ancestry. Similarly neither should the Nazi party provide a comparison.
Whether the KKK exists or not is nothing to do with Asians/ Africans having pride in their race as it has little influence upon society. African pride is less threatening to other races as in USA there are less africans than europeans in the nation. Thus african racism against european goes more or less unchecked whereas there is strong social stigma attached to european racism.

The KKK is a terrorist organization. I won't dispute that because I agree with you. However these people target others because they are of European ancestry. They think that Europeans are the end all be all of society and anyone who is not of European ancestry is inferior to them.

[plus]

The KKK is a terrorist organization. I won't dispute that because I agree with you. However these people target others because they are of European ancestry. They think that Europeans are the end all be all of society and anyone who is not of European ancestry is inferior to them.

Not quite sure what you're argument is here, as believe it or not there are many terrorist organisations in the world. They target innocents on the basis of ethnicity/ nationality/ religion/ politics, and many other aspects of a person. The KKK is a famous example of one of these.

[misskitty]

Thats what I'm saying. They target people who are of Asian and African descent just as they do everyone else who isn't of Northern European descent.

As far as my earlier comment about one's heratige, it had nothing to do with my comment on the KKK. It was simply know your roots because they are part of what make you who you are. Not have pride because it makes you a member of hte KKK. That wasn't what I was saying.