View Full Version : Galileo and light
Marcel Luttgens
Jun22-04, 04:57 PM
<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','toolbar=no, location=no,scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no ,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usenet ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>Galileo and light\n\nAfter dropping stones from the tower of Pisa, Galileo\nimagined that the wavelength of a light ray sent from\nthe bottom of the tower would be greater at its top, in other\nword, that the light would redden in proportion to the height\nof the tower.\n\nAssuming that the original wavelength is lambda1, the wavelength\nat the top is lambda2, the height of the tower is h, and the\nacceleration of gravity g is constant, what would be the\nformula linking lambda1, lambda2, h, and g?\n\nThanks,\n\nMarcel Luttgens\n\n[Moderator\'s note: Responders are urged to consider (a) whether this\nlooks like a homework problem and (b) if so, whether the most useful\ncourse of action is to give answers directly or to give hints and\nsuggestions about how to think about the problem. -TB]\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form"> View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky>Galileo and light
After dropping stones from the tower of Pisa, Galileo
imagined that the wavelength of a light ray sent from
the bottom of the tower would be greater at its top, in other
word, that the light would redden in proportion to the height
of the tower.
Assuming that the original wavelength is lambda1, the wavelength
at the top is lambda2, the height of the tower is h, and the
acceleration of gravity g is constant, what would be the
formula linking lambda1, lambda2, h, and g?
Thanks,
Marcel Luttgens
[Moderator's note: Responders are urged to consider (a) whether this
looks like a homework problem and (b) if so, whether the most useful
course of action is to give answers directly or to give hints and
suggestions about how to think about the problem. -TB]
J. J. Lodder
Jun23-04, 12:37 PM
<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','toolbar=no, location=no,scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no ,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usenet ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>\nMarcel Luttgens <mluttgens@wanadoo.fr> wrote:\n\n> Galileo and light\n>\n> After dropping stones from the tower of Pisa, Galileo\n> imagined that the wavelength of a light ray sent from\n> the bottom of the tower would be greater at its top, in other\n> word, that the light would redden in proportion to the height\n> of the tower.\n>\n> Assuming that the original wavelength is lambda1, the wavelength\n> at the top is lambda2, the height of the tower is h, and the\n> acceleration of gravity g is constant, what would be the\n> formula linking lambda1, lambda2, h, and g?\n\nConsidering that Galileo lacked knowledge of both hbar and c\n(and of the formulae they appear in)\nit seems quite unlikely that he would have thought of this.\nIn fact he died before Huygens formulated his principle.\n\nBut perhaps the original homework problem did give a hint\nas to where in Galileo\'s writings this thought can be found?\n\nJan\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form"> View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky>Marcel Luttgens <mluttgens@wanadoo.fr> wrote:
> Galileo and light
>
> After dropping stones from the tower of Pisa, Galileo
> imagined that the wavelength of a light ray sent from
> the bottom of the tower would be greater at its top, in other
> word, that the light would redden in proportion to the height
> of the tower.
>
> Assuming that the original wavelength is lambda1, the wavelength
> at the top is lambda2, the height of the tower is h, and the
> acceleration of gravity g is constant, what would be the
> formula linking lambda1, lambda2, h, and g?
Considering that Galileo lacked knowledge of both \hbar and c
(and of the formulae they appear in)
it seems quite unlikely that he would have thought of this.
In fact he died before Huygens formulated his principle.
But perhaps the original homework problem did give a hint
as to where in Galileo's writings this thought can be found?
Jan
Uncle Al
Jun25-04, 03:44 PM
<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','toolbar=no, location=no,scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no ,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usenet ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>Marcel Luttgens wrote:\n>\n> Galileo and light\n>\n> After dropping stones from the tower of Pisa, Galileo\n> imagined that the wavelength of a light ray sent from\n> the bottom of the tower would be greater at its top, in other\n> word, that the light would redden in proportion to the height\n> of the tower.\n>\n> Assuming that the original wavelength is lambda1, the wavelength\n> at the top is lambda2, the height of the tower is h, and the\n> acceleration of gravity g is constant, what would be the\n> formula linking lambda1, lambda2, h, and g?\n>\n> Thanks,\n>\n> Marcel Luttgens\n>\n> [Moderator\'s note: Responders are urged to consider (a) whether this\n> looks like a homework problem and (b) if so, whether the most useful\n> course of action is to give answers directly or to give hints and\n> suggestions about how to think about the problem. -TB]\n\n1) Since the premise is ridiculous, it is no doubt homework.\n2) Hyperhysics has a lovely page on it. Let the OP Pound on the\nexperiment.\n\n--\nUncle Al\nhttp://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz.pdf\nhttp://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/eotvos.htm\n(The parity Eotvos experiment is queued)\n\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form"> View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky>Marcel Luttgens wrote:
>
> Galileo and light
>
> After dropping stones from the tower of Pisa, Galileo
> imagined that the wavelength of a light ray sent from
> the bottom of the tower would be greater at its top, in other
> word, that the light would redden in proportion to the height
> of the tower.
>
> Assuming that the original wavelength is lambda1, the wavelength
> at the top is lambda2, the height of the tower is h, and the
> acceleration of gravity g is constant, what would be the
> formula linking lambda1, lambda2, h, and g?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Marcel Luttgens
>
> [Moderator's note: Responders are urged to consider (a) whether this
> looks like a homework problem and (b) if so, whether the most useful
> course of action is to give answers directly or to give hints and
> suggestions about how to think about the problem. -TB]
1) Since the premise is ridiculous, it is no doubt homework.
2) Hyperhysics has a lovely page on it. Let the OP Pound on the
experiment.
--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz.pdf
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/eotvos.htm
(The parity Eotvos experiment is queued)
Marcel Luttgens
Jun25-04, 03:46 PM
<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','toolbar=no, location=no,scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no ,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usenet ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>mluttgens@wanadoo.fr (Marcel Luttgens) wrote in message news:<86996cba.0406220128.6f93a961@posting.google. com>...\n> Galileo and light\n>\n> After dropping stones from the tower of Pisa, Galileo\n> imagined that the wavelength of a light ray sent from\n> the bottom of the tower would be greater at its top, in other\n> word, that the light would redden in proportion to the height\n> of the tower.\n>\n> Assuming that the original wavelength is lambda1, the wavelength\n> at the top is lambda2, the height of the tower is h, and the\n> acceleration of gravity g is constant, what would be the\n> formula linking lambda1, lambda2, h, and g?\n>\n> Thanks,\n>\n> Marcel Luttgens\n>\n> [Moderator\'s note: Responders are urged to consider (a) whether this\n> looks like a homework problem and (b) if so, whether the most useful\n> course of action is to give answers directly or to give hints and\n> suggestions about how to think about the problem. -TB]\n\nThank you, moderator.\nThis is far more than a homework problem. I am convinced that experts\nwould give different formulae. Wait and see ...\n\nMarcel Luttgens\n\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form"> View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky>mluttgens@wanadoo.fr (Marcel Luttgens) wrote in message news:<86996cba.0406220128.6f93a961@posting.google.com>...
> Galileo and light
>
> After dropping stones from the tower of Pisa, Galileo
> imagined that the wavelength of a light ray sent from
> the bottom of the tower would be greater at its top, in other
> word, that the light would redden in proportion to the height
> of the tower.
>
> Assuming that the original wavelength is lambda1, the wavelength
> at the top is lambda2, the height of the tower is h, and the
> acceleration of gravity g is constant, what would be the
> formula linking lambda1, lambda2, h, and g?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Marcel Luttgens
>
> [Moderator's note: Responders are urged to consider (a) whether this
> looks like a homework problem and (b) if so, whether the most useful
> course of action is to give answers directly or to give hints and
> suggestions about how to think about the problem. -TB]
Thank you, moderator.
This is far more than a homework problem. I am convinced that experts
would give different formulae. Wait and see ...
Marcel Luttgens
Marcel Luttgens
Jun29-04, 04:43 PM
<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','toolbar=no, location=no,scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no ,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usenet ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>Uncle Al <UncleAl0@hate.spam.net> wrote in message news:<cbi2qk\\$1j3\\$1@lfa222122.richmond.edu>...\ n> Marcel Luttgens wrote:\n> >\n> > Galileo and light\n> >\n> > After dropping stones from the tower of Pisa, Galileo\n> > imagined that the wavelength of a light ray sent from\n> > the bottom of the tower would be greater at its top, in other\n> > word, that the light would redden in proportion to the height\n> > of the tower.\n> >\n> > Assuming that the original wavelength is lambda1, the wavelength\n> > at the top is lambda2, the height of the tower is h, and the\n> > acceleration of gravity g is constant, what would be the\n> > formula linking lambda1, lambda2, h, and g?\n> >\n> > Thanks,\n> >\n> > Marcel Luttgens\n> >\n> > [Moderator\'s note: Responders are urged to consider (a) whether this\n> > looks like a homework problem and (b) if so, whether the most useful\n> > course of action is to give answers directly or to give hints and\n> > suggestions about how to think about the problem. -TB]\n>\n> 1) Since the premise is ridiculous, it is no doubt homework.\n> 2) Hyperhysics has a lovely page on it. Let the OP Pound on the\n> experiment.\n\nThe premise is a thought experiment.\nBut what is *your* formula? Is it valid for any value of h? If not,\nwhat is the limit? As for me, it is h (height of the tower)= c^2/g.\n\nMarcel\n\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form"> View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky>Uncle Al <UncleAl0@hate.spam.net> wrote in message news:<cbi2qk$1j3$1@lfa222122.richmond.edu>...
> Marcel Luttgens wrote:
> >
> > Galileo and light
> >
> > After dropping stones from the tower of Pisa, Galileo
> > imagined that the wavelength of a light ray sent from
> > the bottom of the tower would be greater at its top, in other
> > word, that the light would redden in proportion to the height
> > of the tower.
> >
> > Assuming that the original wavelength is lambda1, the wavelength
> > at the top is lambda2, the height of the tower is h, and the
> > acceleration of gravity g is constant, what would be the
> > formula linking lambda1, lambda2, h, and g?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Marcel Luttgens
> >
> > [Moderator's note: Responders are urged to consider (a) whether this
> > looks like a homework problem and (b) if so, whether the most useful
> > course of action is to give answers directly or to give hints and
> > suggestions about how to think about the problem. -TB]
>
> 1) Since the premise is ridiculous, it is no doubt homework.
> 2) Hyperhysics has a lovely page on it. Let the OP Pound on the
> experiment.
The premise is a thought experiment.
But what is *your* formula? Is it valid for any value of h? If not,
what is the limit? As for me, it is h (height of the tower)= c^2/g.
Marcel
Douglas Natelson
Jun30-04, 05:35 PM
<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','toolbar=no, location=no,scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no ,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usenet ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>Marcel Luttgens wrote:\n\n[snip of light-in-gravitational-field problem + moderator\'s comments\nabout homework problems]\n>>\n> This is far more than a homework problem. I am convinced that experts\n> would give different formulae. Wait and see ...\n\nThe answer to this question depends critically on what the\nresponder thinks the relationship is between the energy\nof a "light ray" and its wavelength. As Uncle Al said,\nthe premise of the problem (that Galileo was thinking about\nthis issue) is silly. Do you, Marcel, want to know a\nrealistic answer to this question?\n\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form"> View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky>Marcel Luttgens wrote:
[snip of light-in-gravitational-field problem + moderator's comments
about homework problems]
>>
> This is far more than a homework problem. I am convinced that experts
> would give different formulae. Wait and see ...
The answer to this question depends critically on what the
responder thinks the relationship is between the energy
of a "light ray" and its wavelength. As Uncle Al said,
the premise of the problem (that Galileo was thinking about
this issue) is silly. Do you, Marcel, want to know a
realistic answer to this question?
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