View Full Version : Do other countries look at us and laugh?
Topher925
Aug13-09, 04:24 PM
I have to say, I haven't been feeling very proud to be an American lately. With everything thats been going on about health care reform, we Americans have got to be looking pretty stupid as of late. I can't believe arrogant and politically blind some people are these days. All this talk about "death panels" and the inane town hall meetings were people are shouting at senators to watch Glenn Beck makes me feel that idiocracy is coming to fruition.
Even worse is our former vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin and her constant nonsense.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090813/ap_on_go_co/us_health_care_end_of_life
The woman's speeches sound like they came from refrigerator magnet poetry and yet people follow everything she says. Can you imagine what things would be like if her an McCaine actually got elected?
Is it possible for president Obama to impeach us? I wonder how high our approval rating is with the government.
Is it possible for president Obama to impeach us? I wonder how high our approval rating is with the government.As if it were the government's job to judge the people instead of the other way around?
Now here's an idiotic thread that should be locked! (Hint)
Supercritical
Aug13-09, 05:36 PM
So, Topher925, you find it ridiculous that angry crowds will tell senators to watch Glenn Beck? (I actually agree, by the way)
However, what you're saying is that we should watch the Daily Show and the Colbert Report. Your post is basically a summary of their major focus from the past week (death panels, Palin, Glenn Beck)
Daily Show, August 10th: at 3:55 clip of senator being told to watch Glenn Beck, with senator recommending they turn the TV off when he comes on (followed by Daily Show crowd applause)
And the Colbert Report (also from August 10th) at 2:20:(Colbert) Bravo, Ms. Palin! That is the most powerful message you've written by throwing a handful of magnetic poetry against the fridge.Both episodes are available on their websites if you want to see for yourself.
Remarkably similar to your post. Now I admire the humor of the Daily Show and the "Repour," but they are unashamedly biased. They've gone after Fox on many occasions (and rightfully so), but MSNBC has yet to draw Stewart or Colbert's special form of ire. And, believe me, it's not for a lack of material: it's a treasure trove of nonsense. It's especially inexcusable because it's no secret that MSNBC is basically a carbon copy of the model that made Fox News a success, albeit with a 180-degree ideology.
russ_watters
Aug13-09, 06:16 PM
It's especially inexcusable because it's no secret that MSNBC is basically a carbon copy of the model that made Fox News a success, albeit with a 180-degree ideology. Meh, Colbert is a comedian, not a reporter. He doesn't have any standards at all to adhere to, much less accuracy or bias standards. He can do whatever he wants (within the constraints of what his comedy network allows). Now perhaps it would be better for his ratings if he was more even-handed, but whether he should or not is up to him and his producers.
IMO, the best political humor around comes from South Park.
IMO, the best political humor around comes from South Park.Now that, I agree with. South Park is made by self-described libertarians, and given the inherent absurdity in the arguments of the opponents of liberty, they have plenty of material to work with.
jimmysnyder
Aug13-09, 06:36 PM
The British can't laugh at us because it would call attention to their silly accent and all. And if Lichtenstein laughs at us I'm going over there to beat it up. I think North Korea laughs at us, but it's more like that Bwa-ha-ha-ha kind of laugh. Then there's Russia. Totally lacking in a sense of humor they don't laugh at anything. Perhaps France laughs at us. They won't eat our hot dogs and we won't eat their French fries. So let them laugh. I think the US laughs at Belgium. Poirot is from Belgium, but everyone calls him a Frog which puzzles and irritates him. I say we nuke the lot of 'em and see who laughs last.
I certainly laugh at Sarah Palin (come on, she says some pretty hilarious things!), but then again, I'm sure there are political figures elsewhere in the world that Americans laugh at!
I'm sure there are political figures elsewhere in the world that Americans laugh at!
I assume Silvio Berlusconi would be one of them.
Supercritical
Aug13-09, 07:50 PM
Thing is, A LOT of people get their news from the likes of the Daily Show and Colbert.
Jon Stewart once crafted his show merely as a counterbalance to the crazy state of TV news (see: Crossfire incident). It had a lot to do with why it was (and still is) funny, creating the success that it's been in the past 10 years. But with success comes viewership, and despite his frequent self-effacing remarks about himself and "being on cable," his show is now one of the heavyweights.
It started out as an entertainment satire of infotainment, but it's arguably evolved into the latter. In a twist of irony, Stewart is now part of the problem.
I don't have any specific examples, but Stewart's theme during most of Bush's presidency was that the Republicans were making a mess of domestic and foreign policy, and that the Democrats were spineless and clueless by failing to capitalize on it in the elections (until 2006). Sounds even-handed, right? But ask yourself this question: Which worldview was Stewart criticizing? If I were a party chairman, I would much rather have my party criticized for ineffectiveness than for its agenda. It would mean I would only have to restructure and re-energize the base, as opposed to having to win back the minds of the American people.
I'm not convinced that it was just because the GOP was in power, either. Stewart has criticized Obama, but it's been for a poor choice of language on key issues. He expressed disbelief that Obama sabotaged his entire healthcare press conference with the Gates comment at the very end, and likewise criticized him for comparing government/private healthcare to the post office/UPS arrangement in the US. Once again, ridiculing style instead of substance.
Ivan Seeking
Aug13-09, 08:32 PM
I have to say, I haven't been feeling very proud to be an American lately.
LATELY?!?!?! What about when Cheney's boy were torturing people? And I don't know about you, but every time Bush would babble on TV I wanted to pull off my ears and gouge out my eyes. Honestly, just watching the guy could make me ill. At least we now have a President who is smart, respectable, and dedicated.
With everything thats been going on about health care reform, we Americans have got to be looking pretty stupid as of late. I can't believe arrogant and politically blind some people are these days. All this talk about "death panels" and the inane town hall meetings were people are shouting at senators to watch Glenn Beck makes me feel that idiocracy is coming to fruition.
Even worse is our former vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin and her constant nonsense.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090813/ap_on_go_co/us_health_care_end_of_life
The woman's speeches sound like they came from refrigerator magnet poetry and yet people follow everything she says. Can you imagine what things would be like if her an McCaine actually got elected?
Is it possible for president Obama to impeach us? I wonder how high our approval rating is with the government.
Hopefully these people only represent about 20% of the voting public. It just seems like there are more because they are so vocal and abusive. I also noted that Mo. Senator Claire McCaskill reported that while the ten minutes of disruption of her town hall that made the news was what everyone saw, the other two hours not reported on the news were very productive.
I think there are a lot of good people who have been deceived by the right-wingnut media machine, but they will probably make reasonable choices if given good information. All of these town halls are probably the best thing that could happen. It will help to clear the chaff and nuttery spread by the likes of Beck, Limbaugh, Savage, etc.
At least we now have a President who is smart, respectable, and dedicated.
He needs to start checking his facts.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/aug/12/white-house-obama-misspoke-about-aarp-endorsement/
http://www.lonelyconservative.com/2009/08/12/ama-responds-to-obamas-amputation-remarks/
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/aug/04/obama-health-care-numbers-fail-to-tally/
Ivan Seeking
Aug13-09, 09:22 PM
He needs to start checking his facts.
The White House spokesman admitted that Obama mispoke about the AARP. He probably meant the AMA. As far as numbers, that is a legitimate point of debate. If people see problems then that needs to be addressed. On the other hand, there are elements of his strategy not considered by some groups. So, great! Let's [as a nation] hash that out.
We have to reduce the cost of health care and I don't think this point is being addressed nearly enough. It's not like I am happy with everything either; and no one should be. We are taking on one of the most important and difficult issues facing this nation. But that fact alone merits Obama praise and respect. At least he is taking on the hard problems, which we so desperately need to do.
When you take on the most difficult and important problems facing the nation - problems avoided by most Presidents - we can expect a dog fight. It's a beautiful thing.
noblegas
Aug13-09, 09:27 PM
I don't understand why americans are so concerned with the opinions of what other countries think of American culture and in general america's image; When politicians go and speak on behalf of the United states when traveling abroad, they aren't really representing the values each american individual holds;Therefore, they are not really representing the true image of the United states; I would get upset when the US military invades other countries without regard for that country's sovereignty and they didn't attack the US; but if some politician doesn't speak properly and his speech isn't articulate and that offends leaders of other nations, unless that country wants to ignite a war or imposed trade barriers on US imports only because the president doesn't speak eloquently to that leader, I don't care about the opinion of some leader in another country; Its their opinion, it does not mean that their lowly opinion of America is based on truth;
They've gone after Fox on many occasions (and rightfully so), but MSNBC has yet to draw Stewart or Colbert's special form of ire.
I can't remember for sure about Colbert, but Jon Stewart has skewered MSNBC on about a 1:4 ratio vs. Fox.
As for the question in the title of this thread, the answer is 'yes'.
My opinion, which I hope that everyone will understand in the proper context, is that Yankees are like dogs; as a species, they suck, but it's very rarely that I run into an individual that I don't like. You can have a good time with a limited number of them, but once you hit an abitrary critical mass of bodies, they start turning on you and each other. A high percentage of my friends here on PF are from the States, and they're all great people. Even those that I usually disagree with on cultural matters, such as Russ, are intelligent, educated (far beyond me), and respectful of others' opinions. That is typical of Yankee individual behaviour (although the intelligence and education level here are much higher than average). Those 'town hall' meeting on the news are typical of Yankee mob behaviour that occurs when you get too many irrational people in the same place at the same time.
I hope that didn't offend any of my US friends; it's just the way that I see it.
drankin
Aug13-09, 09:43 PM
We do have he best comedy in the world. So I would say yes, other countries look at us and laugh. And then we laugh at them for laughing with those funny accents. It's all good.
We do have he best comedy in the world.
Some of the best, not all of it. I gotta admit that Jeff Foxworthy, his buddies from 'Blue Collar Comedy', David Brenner in the old days, Drew Carey, and several others just make me bust a gut. On the other hand, I absolutely gag if I try to watch Seinfeld, Letterman, or almost any Yank sitcom currently on the air. Used to love Taxi, WKRP, Dave's World... but that was back when comedy was based upon humour rather than canned laughter triggered by utterly inane comments.
mgb_phys
Aug13-09, 09:59 PM
We do have he best comedy in the world.
That explains it Congress is an open-mike at a standup show
russ_watters
Aug13-09, 10:01 PM
Yankees are like dogs; as a species, they suck... Just so we're clear, you're talking about the New York Yankees, right? In that case, we agree.
Either way.... Even those that I usually disagree with on cultural matters, such as Russ, are intelligent, educated (far beyond me), and respectful of others' opinions. Thanks, but what are you, a cat? I still have no idea, and that pic has been up for a couple of years!
Meh, whatever.
russ_watters
Aug13-09, 10:01 PM
That explains it Congress is an open-mike at a standup show There is no way that our Congress is funnier than Parliament.
Just so we're clear, you're talking about the New York Yankees, right? In that case, we agree.
Either way.... Thanks, but what are you, a cat? I still have no idea, and that pic has been up for a couple of years!
No, Yankees as in citizens of the USA. Everyone in North, Central, or South America is American, so I refuse to use that title to single out US residents. You have no proprietary right to it.
I'm not a cat, but I am a cat lover. Remember, Lucy does my typing for me (and I/we have posted the picture to prove it).
As for the avatar, that's staying up permanently. It isn't anything specific, but does seem to remind me of one of Glory's minions from the 'Buffy the Vampire Slayer' series. (I loved that show.) It took me over two days to make that costume, and I'm damned well going to make it pay off. :tongue:
OmCheeto
Aug13-09, 10:25 PM
I hope that didn't offend any of my US friends; it's just the way that I see it.
I don't think we are friends. You're a knuck aren't you? Wait. Aren't knuck's supposed to be our friends?
But I look at us and laugh all the time.
Self-deprecating humour is the best.
I don't think we are friends. You're a knuck aren't you? Wait. Aren't knuck's supposed to be our friends?
But I look at us and laugh all the time.
Self-deprecating humour is the best.
I've gotta say that I've never seen it spelled that way before, but agreed. :smile:
The truth is that while Braindead Bush was in power, we both ridiculed and feared the US. There's nothing like having someone with the IQ of an eggplant in charge of the world's largest nuclear arsenal to disturb one's sleep.
Obama has been rapidly changing that ever since his election. The right-wing extremists are still good for a laugh now and then, but the nation as a whole is beginning to gain some respect.
jimmysnyder
Aug14-09, 05:30 AM
Used to love Taxi, WKRP, Dave's World... but that was back when comedy was based upon humour rather than canned laughter triggered by utterly inane comments.
The first American television show to incorporate a laugh track was the American sitcom The Hank McCune Show in 1950.
wiki (and therefor unreliable) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laugh_track)
Taxi was way back then?
Huckleberry
Aug14-09, 08:20 AM
No, Yankees as in citizens of the USA. Everyone in North, Central, or South America is American, so I refuse to use that title to single out US residents. You have no proprietary right to it. Don't you know the US is the center of the universe? I remember my Spanish class laughed at the idea that the Spanish translation for a citizen of the United States effectively translated into United Statesian. There isn't even a term for that used in English. I caved a long time ago and just say American. People know exactly what I mean because only United States citizens identify their country as the entirety of 2 continents. The Pacific Ocean didn't stop manifest destiny from continuing in our imagination. That's got to be worth a few laughs.
I get the impression that other countries find the US meddlesome, arrogant, a constant source of entertainment and an occasional source of fear. We don't seem to be able to agree on anything and we like to fight. That fits with the whole wild west theme that some people still apply to the US. I blame John Wayne.
I get the impression that other countries find the US meddlesome, arrogant, a constant source of entertainment and an occasional source of fear. We don't seem to be able to agree on anything and we like to fight. That fits with the whole wild west theme that some people still apply to the US. I blame John Wayne.
What??? I thought Obama fixed that whole meddlesome/arrogance thing...remember the "apology tour"?
wiki (and therefor unreliable) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laugh_track)
Taxi was way back then?
I didn't mean to imply that laugh tracks didn't exist back then, but the shows that I mentioned were genuinely funny; things that a live audience would laugh at. Most of them now are just stupid, and there would be no laughter from a live audience. (At least, not an intelligent one.)
jimmysnyder
Aug14-09, 12:04 PM
I didn't mean to imply that laugh tracks didn't exist back then, but the shows that I mentioned were genuinely funny; things that a live audience would laugh at. Most of them now are just stupid, and there would be no laughter from a live audience. (At least, not an intelligent one.)
Wait a minute. Wasn't Taxi the show with Andy Kaufman playing the role of foreign man? We all had a good laugh at that.
Wait a minute. Wasn't Taxi the show with Andy Kaufman playing the role of foreign man? We all had a good laugh at that.
Yes, it was. All of the characters had some great lines. Judd Hirsch was the only sane one of the bunch. I think that my favourite was Christopher Lloyd as 'Reverend Jim'. He put on some really ingenious performances.
CRGreathouse
Aug14-09, 12:26 PM
I have to say, I haven't been feeling very proud to be an American lately. With everything thats been going on about health care reform, we Americans have got to be looking pretty stupid as of late. I can't believe arrogant and politically blind some people are these days. All this talk about "death panels" and the inane town hall meetings were people are shouting at senators to watch Glenn Beck makes me feel that idiocracy is coming to fruition.
I think it's great that the American people are speaking back to their government; that's a crucial American* freedom. I think it's great that citizens of other nations can likewise "look at us and laugh"; 'we' could use the criticism and the perspective. Certainly I've had my fair share of mirth at the expense of other nations.
I do wish that the criticism, at home and abroad, was more factual. But I also wish we had cheap clean energy, a proof of the Riemann hypothesis, freedom from totalitarian regimes, and peace on earth (http://www.google.com/musicl?lid=ELBO2yysYjL&aid=QMsAKW0V-WP). I'm not holding my breath.
* I would argue that this is a crucial human freedom.
There is no way that our Congress is funnier than Parliament.
Maybe Parliament is literally funnier (though I think "quaint" is the best word for most of it), but at least MPs don't spend their time writing resolutions to honour pop stars!
mgb_phys
Aug14-09, 12:39 PM
There is no way that our Congress is funnier than Parliament.
Well the comedians in parliament do write they're own material. The latest volume of expenses justifications is pretty funny.
jimmysnyder
Aug14-09, 12:50 PM
Yes, it was. All of the characters had some great lines. Judd Hirsch was the only sane one of the bunch. I think that my favourite was Christopher Lloyd as 'Reverend Jim'. He put on some really ingenious performances.
Well things have come full circle if foreign man is now laughing at us.
russ_watters
Aug14-09, 01:28 PM
No, Yankees as in citizens of the USA. Everyone in North, Central, or South America is American, so I refuse to use that title to single out US residents. You have no proprietary right to it.
We'd call ourselves "Universians", but it just doesn't have the same flow. :biggrin:
jimmysnyder
Aug14-09, 02:19 PM
People such as scientist Stephen Hawking wouldn't have a chance in the U.K., where they laugh at Americans and would say the life of this brilliant man, because of his physical handicaps, is essentially humorous.
Well things have come full circle if foreign man is now laughing at us.
:rofl:
Astronuc
Aug14-09, 03:19 PM
The British can't laugh at us because it would call attention to their silly accent and all. And if Lichtenstein laughs at us I'm going over there to beat it up. I think North Korea laughs at us, but it's more like that Bwa-ha-ha-ha kind of laugh. Then there's Russia. Totally lacking in a sense of humor they don't laugh at anything. Perhaps France laughs at us. They won't eat our hot dogs and we won't eat their French fries. So let them laugh. I think the US laughs at Belgium. Poirot is from Belgium, but everyone calls him a Frog which puzzles and irritates him. I say we nuke the lot of 'em and see who laughs last. I nominate jimmysnyder for US Ambassador to the UN. :biggrin:
We'd call ourselves "Universians", but it just doesn't have the same flow. :biggrin:
:rofl:
Huckleberry
Aug14-09, 05:11 PM
No, Yankees as in citizens of the USA. Everyone in North, Central, or South America is American, so I refuse to use that title to single out US residents. You have no proprietary right to it.
Now that I think about it, it's probably a bad idea when speaking to a US citizen to generally refer to them as yankees. It would be considered a derogatory remark in the southern states where the term is commonly pronounced damnyankees.
It could also be a bad idea to refer to people from some of the northern states as yankees. Massachusetts sports fans are truly fanatical. Whenever the Red Sox are doing well there are semi-regular riots in Boston. Their most hated enemy is the New York Yankees ever since the Red Sox sold Babe Ruth to the Yankees after winning the world series in 1918.
Red Sox riot in Kenmore square 2004 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eW_3wCPzxo) (footage after the ALCS game in 2004 against the NY Yankees. I like the music that goes along with the footage. Looks like fun, dunnit?)
outside Fenway Park 2004 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1GjqZi7C8U&feature=related) (So yeah, this might be a bad place to call someone a yankee, especially if you are in a car. You can hear the crowd chanting "Yankees suck!")
WhoWee's other nickname is Randy - and let me tell you, my British friends have a field day with that one...
Now that I think about it, it's probably a bad idea when speaking to a US citizen to generally refer to them as yankees.
Okay, I'll stick with the standard British term 'Yanks'. I'm not a fan of either sports or the southern US, so I was unaware of those particular negative connotations. (Oh, hang on... I seem to remember that MIH or Evo (Texans) mentioned the political aspect of it a few years ago, but it slipped my mind.) My apologies for the 'ee' in the word. I won't use it again.
WhoWee's other nickname is Randy - and let me tell you, my British friends have a field day with that one...
:rofl: I bet.
Even cultural differences within the Commonwealth (which we Canucks still call 'the Empire') can cause some unexpected complications. My best friend was on an agricultural exchange programme in Oz about 20 years ago. At the farm where he had been assigned, he was looking for something in a tool chest when the farmer's wife approached and asked what he was doing. He said, "I'm just rooting around in here for a wrench." Well, apparently 'rooting' means something different in Australia than it does here. She was quite shocked. :rofl:
LATELY?!?!?! What about when Cheney's boy were torturing people? And I don't know about you, but every time Bush would babble on TV I wanted to pull off my ears and gouge out my eyes. Honestly, just watching the guy could make me ill.
Agreed. Shortly after 9/11 this guy and his cronies made me sick every time I saw or heard him/them.
At least we now have a President who is smart, respectable, and dedicated.
The verdict is still out on that one. Honestly, I think Obama is in over his head.
mheslep
Aug14-09, 08:50 PM
I nominate jimmysnyder for US Ambassador to the UN. :biggrin:2nd, nomination confirmed.
Agreed. Shortly after 9/11 this guy and his cronies made me sick every time I saw or heard him/them.
The verdict is still out on that one. Honestly, I think Obama is in over his head.
You are not alone.
TheStatutoryApe
Aug15-09, 12:01 AM
Maybe Parliament is literally funnier (though I think "quaint" is the best word for most of it), but at least MPs don't spend their time writing resolutions to honour pop stars!
What do they waste their time on then?
Huckleberry
Aug15-09, 12:19 AM
Okay, I'll stick with the standard British term 'Yanks'. I'm not a fan of either sports or the southern US, so I was unaware of those particular negative connotations. (Oh, hang on... I seem to remember that MIH or Evo (Texans) mentioned the political aspect of it a few years ago, but it slipped my mind.) My apologies for the 'ee' in the word. I won't use it again. Doesn't bother me any, but there is a small chance, depending on who you are talking to, that you might get an unfriendly reaction. I'm not a fan of sports or the southern US either. Don't change anything on my behalf. I'm sure it works well when talking with someone outside the US, but most people in the US won't get the general application of the word, or its abbreviated version 'yank'. Since you can't win no matter what you call us Yankees you might as well use it. I would. Just avoid southerners and Boston during baseball season.:biggrin:
edit- I wasn't familiar with the general usage until I was in Mexico for a few months. The people I was working with called me a yankee and it took me by surprise. I told them it has a similar meaning as redneck or wetback, and I think that took them by surprise. They explained that wasn't what they meant and that was that. No harm, no foul. If you talk with yanks who don't get out of the country much or don't keep up on international news then be prepared to explain. It would be nice to have some kind of nomenclature in English for US citizens.
Blenton
Aug15-09, 12:26 AM
Definitely. Us Australians love to take the piss out of Americans, honestly I think the majority of your population are completely stupid.
Definitely. Us Australians love to take the piss out of Americans, honestly I think the majority of your population are completely stupid.
As an Australian myself I would disagree. I have met many Americans who are genuinely intelligent more so than anyone who was in the room.
But I have also met many americans who are simply didn't know much more than the boarders of the United States.
We also don't really have the right to take the piss out of them considering some of our own antics which would be consider beyond imaginable stupidity.
Also we have just been relieved of a prime minister who was very much pro-american. He made them our counter-parts. This is apparent to the rest of the world. When I talk to Germans we sometimes discuss this and often the response is that we are kind of like Little-America. So taking the piss out of americans would inherently also being taking the piss out of yourself in a long winded sort of way.
Definitely. Us Australians love to take the piss out of Americans, honestly I think the majority of your population are completely stupid.I live in the US and can confirm that, sadly, the majority of our population is stupid. I don't know that we're stupider than other first world countries, we just win by sheer numbers.
Definitely. Us Australians love to take the piss out of Americans, honestly I think the majority of your population are completely stupid.
I think it's a matter of being fat and lazy for some people. About 1/3 of the population expects to be taken care of - cradle to grave. Our unions have convinced a significant portion of our population that they're entitled to special treatment - regardless of (world wide) market forces - and our Government must agree, they just broke bondholder agreements to give equity in GM to the unions. Our Government workers are the same as their world wide counterparts - enough said.
Next, we have the small business owners that nobody cares about - they risk everything and keep taking hits and get no respect.
Our politicians are completely out of touch with the common man. They actually believe it's a good idea to turn all of the illegal immigrants from Mexico and elsewhere into voters and give them free healthcare - and that somehow that will save money? Here's another one, they believe we can spend our way out of debt (and print more money on top of the borrowing). Then we have the stimulus plan - the "shovel ready" projects were so desperately needed and time sensitive that our Congress didn't have time to read the largest spending Bill in our history - even though months after the passing, less than 20% of the funds have been released. Then we have a President who appoints "Czars" to positions that answer only to him, have nearly unlimited power, and don't need to be approved by Congress.
I'd go on - but "stupid" sums it up.
Definitely. Us Australians
Wouldn't that be 'We Australians...?
But I have also met many americans who are simply didn't know much more than the boarders of the United States.
Do you mean 'borders', or are you harbouring illegal immigrants in Aunt Tilly's basement?
jimmysnyder
Aug15-09, 07:37 AM
Wouldn't that be 'We Australians...?
I thought he meant US Australians, or Australo-americans, the opposite of Damn-yankees.
I have to say, I haven't been feeling very proud to be an American lately.
In all seriousness, there's substantially less laughing these days, I suspect. People who watch US politics (like myself) still facepalm from time to time with some remarks from some Americans; but the fact that you elected Barack Obama has suddenly given you as a nation a lot more credibility, internationally.
I'm sure there are people reading this who will reject that because they don't think Mr Obama is any improvement, or because they actually think he's worse than what went before. But the question in the OP was about reaction from other countries. And overall, I think there's little doubt that people in other countries DO tend to think this change in the political landscape is definitely a change for the better, for the most part.
I certainly do; and given that this election had such strong popular support in the USA, this indicates that the USA as a whole looks more sensible to many overseas observers as well.
Cheers -- sylas
No, Yankees as in citizens of the USA. Everyone in North, Central, or South America is American, so I refuse to use that title to single out US residents. You have no proprietary right to it.
Do you suggest the same standard should apply with Great Britain since it only covers part of the British Isles?
People such as scientist Stephen Hawking wouldn't have a chance in the U.K...
Hawking is Bri... er, a Limey.
Topher925
Aug15-09, 10:51 AM
People who watch US politics (like myself) still facepalm from time to time with some remarks from some Americans; but the fact that you elected Barack Obama has suddenly given you as a nation a lot more credibility, internationally.
This is good to know. While it seems that a large portion of people in the US have loss their sanity, its good to know the rest of the world hasn't.
mheslep
Aug15-09, 10:21 PM
In all seriousness, there's substantially less laughing these days, I suspect. People who watch US politics (like myself) still facepalm from time to time with some remarks from some Americans; but the fact that you elected Barack Obama has suddenly given you as a nation a lot more credibility, internationally....Internationally? Why can't you just say 'more credibility with me', rather than attribute the whole world.
Do you suggest the same standard should apply with Great Britain since it only covers part of the British Isles?
Actually, I don't. I refer to citizens of England as 'Brits'. Someone from Scotland is a 'Scot', one from Ireland is 'Irish', someone from Wales is a sheep****er, and so on.
Blenton
Aug15-09, 11:17 PM
Wouldn't that be 'We Australians...?
Silence!
TheStatutoryApe
Aug15-09, 11:27 PM
Actually, I don't. I refer to citizens of England as 'Brits'. Someone from Scotland is a 'Scot', one from Ireland is 'Irish', someone from Wales is a sheep****er, and so on.
I usually call them brits too. I have been trying to correct myself and call them english instead though. And sometimes limey.
I thought people from scotland were sheep****ers. hmmm...
I thought those from NZ were. You know. Compassionate sheep "caring" people.
How did sheep get such a bad reputation?
Huckleberry
Aug16-09, 12:41 AM
How did sheep get such a bad reputation? They figured that since they outnumber people in NZ they should have representation. They organized themselves into unions and went on a wool strike. The people scorned their bleeting heart movement and herded them into groups with dogs, leaving shepherds to manage the remnants of the union. The sheep recognized that the union couldn't be trusted and resorted to gang violence and drug trafficking. Before you know it shepherds were always high on weed and surrounded by dozens of perty sheep. The dogs are their spies in the community, and very soon they will make their move to take over the country. Watch, you'll see!
Majority Americans are neither stupider nor smarter than any other kind of people out there. They will be same as others if they get less attention.
chemisttree
Aug18-09, 12:24 PM
I certainly do; and given that this election had such strong popular support in the USA, this indicates that the USA as a whole looks more sensible to many overseas observers as well.
Cheers -- sylas
Obama won the election 53% to 47% in the popular vote. (http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/results/president/) A little early to be rewriting history isn't it?
BoomBoom
Aug18-09, 05:37 PM
Obama won the election 53% to 47% in the popular vote. (http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/results/president/) A little early to be rewriting history isn't it?
...and Bush lost the popular vote, but I assume the people other nations just look at who we elected...not by how much.
I think the true barometer of where our country is headed is in the younger generation, and they voted for Obama 66% to 32% for Bush.
"The future's so bright, I gotta wear shades..."
:cool:
Obama won the election 53% to 47% in the popular vote. (http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/results/president/) A little early to be rewriting history isn't it?
Todays Rasmussen Poll - 31% Strongly Approve & 40% Strongly Disapprove of Obama
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/daily_presidential_tracking_poll
In sales, it's called "buyer's remorse" - and after a point, every time the salesperson speaks - the approval and credibility tend to drop.
BoomBoom
Aug18-09, 06:26 PM
Todays Rasmussen Poll - 31% Strongly Approve & 40% Strongly Disapprove of Obama
I wonder how many of these folks in this poll are people (like me) that are actually Obama supporters that strongly disapprove of his apparent 'caving' to the conservatives and special interests on the health care public option....(and other similar issues)?
We want him to grow some cahunas and push this stuff through and let the right-wing whine all they want!
drankin
Aug18-09, 06:28 PM
I wonder how many of these folks in this poll are people (like me) that are actually Obama supporters that strongly disapprove of his apparent 'caving' to the conservatives and special interests on the health care public option....(and other similar issues)?
We want him to grow some cahunas and push this stuff through and let the right-wing whine all they want!
The more he pushes the less support he seems to get.
mheslep
Aug18-09, 07:58 PM
I think the true barometer of where our country is headed is in the younger generation, and they voted for Obama 66% to 32% for Bush.
"The future's so bright, I gotta wear shades..."
:cool:
We'll see:
When I was a boy of fourteen, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be twenty-one, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in seven years.
:smile:
bleedblue1234
Aug18-09, 10:35 PM
Obama is a politician, how can he BE any different?
:wink:
OmCheeto
Aug19-09, 09:50 AM
Obama won the election 53% to 47% in the popular vote. (http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/results/president/)
I'm curious, did other countries laugh when Gore won the election (http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0876793.html) and Bush became president?
Gore 50,999,897 48.38%
Bush 50,456,002 47.87%
I don't recall laughing about that.
mgb_phys
Aug19-09, 10:04 AM
I'm curious, did other countries laugh when Gore won the and Bush became president?
To the citizens of the United States of America from Her Sovereign Majesty Queen Elizabeth II
In light of your failure to decide who will be President of the USA and thus to govern yourselves, we hereby give notice of the revocation of your independence, effective immediately. Her Sovereign Majesty Queen Elizabeth II will resume monarchical duties over all states, commonwealths, and territories (except Kansas, which she does not fancy).
To aid in the transition to a British Crown dependency, the following rules are introduced with immediate effect: (You should look up "revocation" in the Oxford English Dictionary.)
1. Then look up aluminium, and check the pronunciation guide. You will be amazed at just how wrongly you have been pronouncing it.
2. The letter 'U' will be reinstated in words such as "colour", "favour", "labour" and "neighbour." Likewise, you will learn to spell "doughnut" without skipping half the letters, and the suffix '-ize' will be replaced by the suffix '-ise'. Generally, you will be expected to raise your vocabulary to acceptable levels. (look up "vocabulary").
3. Using the same twenty-seven words interspersed with filler noises such as "like" and "you know" is an unacceptable and inefficient form of communication. There is no such thing as US English. We will let M*crosoft know on your behalf. The M*crosoft spell-checker will be adjusted to take into account the reinstated letter "u" and the elimination of -ize.
4. July 4th will no longer be celebrated as a holiday.
5. You will learn to resolve personal issues without using guns, lawyers, or therapists. The fact that you need so many lawyers and therapists shows that you're not quite ready to be independent. Guns should only be used for shooting grouse. If you can't sort things out without suing someone or speaking to a therapist then you're not ready to shoot grouse.
6. Therefore, you will no longer be allowed to own or carry anything more dangerous than a vegetable peeler. Although a permit will be required if you wish to carry a vegetable peeler in public.
7. All intersections will be replaced with roundabouts, and you will start driving on the left side with immediate effect. At the same time, you will go metric with immediate effect. Both roundabouts and metrication will help you understand the British sense of humour.
8. The former USA will adopt UK prices on petrol (which you have been calling gasoline) of roughly $10/US gallon. Get used to it.
9. You will learn to make real chips. Those things you call French fries are not real chips, and those things you insist on calling potato chips are properly called crisps. Real chips are thick cut, fried in animal fat, and dressed not with catsup but with vinegar.
10. The cold tasteless stuff you insist on calling beer is not actually beer at all. Henceforth, only proper British Bitter will be referred to as beer, and European brews of known and accepted provenance will be referred to as Lager. Australian beer is also acceptable as they are pound for pound the greatest sporting nation on earth and it can only be due to the beer. They are also part of the British Commonwealth - see what it did for them. American brands will be referred to as Near-Frozen Gnat's Urine, so that all can be sold without risk of further confusion.
11. Hollywood will be required occasionally to cast English actors as good guys. Hollywood will also be required to cast English actors to play English characters. Watching Andie MacDowell attempt English dialogue in "Four Weddings and a Funeral" was an experience akin to having one's ears removed with a cheese grater.
12. You will cease playing American football. There is only one kind of proper football; you call it soccer. Those of you brave enough will, in time, be allowed to play rugby (which has some similarities to American football, but does not involve stopping for a rest every twenty seconds or wearing full kevlar body armour like a bunch of nancies). Don't try rugby - the Australians and Kiwis will thrash you, like they regularly thrash us.
13. Further, you will stop playing baseball. It is not reasonable to host an event called the World Series for a game which is not played outside of America. Since only 2.1% of you are aware there is a world beyond your borders, your error is understandable. You will learn cricket, and we will let you face the Australians first to take the sting out of their deliveries.
14. You must tell us who killed JFK. It's been driving us mad.
15. An internal revenue agent (i.e. tax collector) from Her Majesty's Government will be with you shortly to ensure the acquisition of all monies due (backdated to 1776).
16. Daily Tea Time begins promptly at 4 pm with proper cups, with saucers, and never mugs, with high quality biscuits (cookies) and cakes; plus strawberries (with cream) when in season.
God Save the Queen!
OmCheeto
Aug19-09, 10:40 AM
To the citizens of the United States of America from Her Sovereign Majesty Queen Elizabeth II
In light of your failure to decide who will be President of the USA and thus to govern yourselves, we hereby give notice of the revocation of your independence, effective immediately. Her Sovereign Majesty Queen Elizabeth II will resume monarchical duties over all states, commonwealths, and territories (except Kansas, which she does not fancy).
Although this is the third of fourth time I've read that speech, 2 lines always have me rolling on the floor laughing.
......
10. The cold tasteless stuff you insist on calling beer is not actually beer at all. ..... American brands will be referred to as Near-Frozen Gnat's Urine, so that all can be sold without risk of further confusion.
12. You will cease playing American football. There is only one kind of proper football; you call it soccer. Those of you brave enough will, in time, be allowed to play rugby (which has some similarities to American football, but does not involve stopping for a rest every twenty seconds or wearing full kevlar body armour like a bunch of nancies).
I concur.
God Save the Queen!
Some of us have been considering the proposition, though we've left out more than just Kansas.
http://unhinderedbytalent.com/Phi/wp-content/images/jesusland.jpg
fuzzyfelt
Aug19-09, 11:34 AM
:rofl: It always makes me laugh, too.
Well played in the previous tests! I'm looking forward to watching the fifth.
Although this is the third of fourth time I've read that speech, 2 lines always have me rolling on the floor laughing.
I concur.
Some of us have been considering the proposition, though we've left out more than just Kansas.
http://unhinderedbytalent.com/Phi/wp-content/images/jesusland.jpg
hahaha Wow that speech was awesome never seen it before. And that Canada/USA vs Jesusland picture is awesome too.
seycyrus
Aug19-09, 12:44 PM
Although this is the third of fourth time I've read that speech, 2 lines always have me rolling on the floor laughing.
I concur.
They used to play footbal without pads, but the injury rate was too high.
I am confident that allowing a rugby player to play american football without pads could be arranged.
jimmysnyder
Aug19-09, 01:47 PM
16. Daily Tea Time begins promptly at 4 pm with proper cups, with saucers, and never mugs, with high quality biscuits (cookies) and cakes; plus strawberries (with cream) when in season.
Unfortunately, the tea got tossed into Boston Harbor and is unsuitable for drinking. Even for the British.
chemisttree
Aug19-09, 02:15 PM
...and Bush lost the popular vote, but I assume the people other nations just look at who we elected...not by how much.
That's not how Sylas saw it... and I was replying to that post.
chemisttree
Aug19-09, 02:28 PM
I'm curious, did other countries laugh when Gore won the election (http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0876793.html) and Bush became president?
Gore 50,999,897 48.38%
Bush 50,456,002 47.87%
I don't recall laughing about that.
I don't know, I wasn't in another country at the time. I'd be willing to bet they did.
The U.S. image abroad is suffering almost everywhere. Particularly in the most economically developed countries, people blame America for the financial crisis. Opposition to key elements of American foreign policy is widespread in Western Europe, and positive views of the U.S. have declined steeply among many of America's longtime European allies. Source. Pew Global Attitudes Project (http://pewglobal.org/reports/display.php?ReportID=263)
That's how the report reads for the time period covering the Bush years.
Here's how the report begins for the time period covering Obama's term so far.
The image of the United States has improved markedly in most parts of the world, reflecting global confidence in Barack Obama. In many countries opinions of the United States are now about as positive as they were at the beginning of the decade before George W. Bush took office. Improvements in the U.S. image have been most pronounced in Western Europe, where favorable ratings for both the nation and the American people have soared. But opinions of America have also become more positive in key countries in Latin America, Africa and Asia, as well.
Source. Pew Global Attitudes Project (http://pewglobal.org/reports/display.php?ReportID=264)
I'm curious, did other countries laugh when Gore won the election (http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0876793.html) and Bush became president?
Gore 50,999,897 48.38%
Bush 50,456,002 47.87%
I don't recall laughing about that.
Knowingly making false statements is against forum rules.
Bush won the election 271 to 266 according to your source.
Unless you really don't understand our constitutional process for electing Presidents?
russ_watters
Aug19-09, 05:54 PM
I'm curious, did other countries laugh when Gore won the election (http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0876793.html) and Bush became president?
Gore 50,999,897 48.38%
Bush 50,456,002 47.87%
I don't recall laughing about that. Dunno, are people in other countries capable of reading and understanding a wiki article about how the electoral college works?
7. All intersections will be replaced with roundabouts, and you will start driving on the left side with immediate effect. At the same time, you will go metric with immediate effect. Both roundabouts and metrication will help you understand the British sense of humour.
You know, it's not until I visited the US a few times that I really appreciated roundabouts (traffic circles). They just make so much more sense than the stand-off at stop signs, or the ridiculous 5 road junctions controlled solely by traffic lights!
Dunno, are people in other countries capable of reading and understanding a wiki article about how the electoral college works?
Hmm.. I hope you're being facetious! (Things like the US electoral college were taught to me in high school history lessons!)
OmCheeto
Aug19-09, 09:33 PM
Hmm.. I hope you're being facetious! (Things like the US electoral college were taught to me in high school history lessons!)
Now now, they'll shut our fun down if we fight.
The Electoral College (http://www.uselectionatlas.org/INFORMATION/INFORMATION/electcollege_history.php)
Direct election was rejected not because the Framers of the Constitution doubted public intelligence
idiots......
but rather because they feared that without sufficient information about candidates from outside their State
Like that is a problem now, with the internet.
, people would naturally vote for a "favorite son" from their own State or region.
Not to mention cute. I'd snog Obama.
At worst, no president would emerge with a popular majority sufficient to govern the whole country. At best, the choice of president would always be decided by the largest, most populous States with little regard for the smaller ones.
Eeek!
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/44/USA_states_population_map_2007_color.svg/300px-USA_states_population_map_2007_color.svg.png
So our last president could have been Arnold(Wutevah! Just amend the constitution.... god....), Bush(again.....), Cuomo, or that other Bush.
They used to play footbal without pads, but the injury rate was too high.
I am confident that allowing a rugby player to play american football without pads could be arranged.
Reality check - it's fine to boast and make fun of our pads - I get it.
But seeing how this is a Physics Forums conversation, why don't you factor in the speed of our game, average size of our players, hardness of our equipment and relative softness of your rugby player's head - and report your findings.
russ_watters
Aug19-09, 09:55 PM
You know, it's not until I visited the US a few times that I really appreciated roundabouts (traffic circles). They just make so much more sense than the stand-off at stop signs, or the ridiculous 5 road junctions controlled solely by traffic lights!
I really hate them, but they are only a problem in third world states like New Jersey. Pennsylvania doesn't have traffic circles. I think they work better where there is less traffic. Hmm.. I hope you're being facetious! (Things like the US electoral college were taught to me in high school history lessons!) I was, but I'm surprised you learned about the electoral college in school. I keep forgetting where you are from....France?
mheslep
Aug19-09, 10:01 PM
...
idiots......
Like that is a problem now, with the internet.
Not to mention cute. I'd snog Obama.
Eeek!
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/44/USA_states_population_map_2007_color.svg/300px-USA_states_population_map_2007_color.svg.png
If the US had no Electoral College today, the entire presidential campaign process would cease to exist outside of the major population centers in California and New York, with the odd visit or two to Tx, Fla, Pa, Ohio. Every other state or rural area might as well eat cake. Political accountability in the office of the President would follow similarly. Like the Senate in the Congress, the Electoral College gives federalism a role in the executive branch.
mgb_phys
Aug19-09, 11:26 PM
the entire presidential campaign process would cease to exist outside of the major population centers in California and New York,
Instead of being in the hands of whichever farming state holds the first primary
mheslep
Aug19-09, 11:40 PM
Instead of being in the hands of whichever farming state holds the first primaryIf that is to mean on the one hand (EC) we have Iowa owning the Presidency, and on the other (popular vote) we'd have Ca/NY owning the Presidency, then no there's no comparison. Under the EC system, Iowa forces a kabuki dance early on, and a hat tip by the candidates, but it does not hold any great political sway over the President. In a popular vote election, the LA and NYC type areas would OWN the Presidency, everybody else stay home. Don't waste time writing letters or going to town halls, because the Pres. need not care in the slightest what they think.
OmCheeto
Aug20-09, 01:01 AM
Instead of being in the hands of whichever farming state holds the first primary
Gads.. I'm lucky I went to the lou before I read that, or I'd need a new couch. What's the cure for hyperventilating? paper bag. breath in breath out. bwah hahahahaha!:cry::rofl::cry::rofl:
There's another important reason for the electoral college: The simple fact that the states, not the federal government, are in charge of elections to avoid having "the fox in charge of the henhouse", and the only practical way to do that at the time was to assign each state its share of electors, and each state ultimately has the final say in certifying which candidate gets its votes.
May seem outdated, but it still serves that purpose pretty well.
I was, but I'm surprised you learned about the electoral college in school. I keep forgetting where you are from....France?
I'm from England. I think we were taught about the electoral college when comparing systems of government around the western world. Then again, it could just have been that there was an election coming, and our teacher felt we should know about such things-- it was a while ago now!
To the citizens of the United States of America from Her Sovereign Majesty Queen Elizabeth II
In light of your failure to decide who will be President of the USA and thus to govern yourselves, we hereby give notice of the revocation of your independence, effective immediately. Her Sovereign Majesty Queen Elizabeth II will resume monarchical duties over all states, commonwealths, and territories (except Kansas, which she does not fancy)... ...God Save the Queen!
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
That is one of the funniest things that I have ever read in my life.
kldickson
Aug20-09, 08:07 AM
Yes. Most do. Some don't. Unfortunately, half of our country is made up of unscientific, fundamentalist troglodytes, which are mostly concentrated in the south, which, south of Northern Virginia and excluding Charlottesville and east of New Mexico and excluding Austin, Houston, Dallas, and Galveston and excluding Chapel Hill and Atlanta, I'd like to sink into the ocean.
We're not all stupid in the United States, of course; many of us know about the rest of the world and have even been all over the world in general. Many of us know, for example, the Arabic name of the capital of Libya (Tarabulus), the contribution of Zimbabwe to global GDP (0.002%), and a, if not the , major technological center in India (Bengaluru). Many of us are scientifically literate. Many of us facepalm when we hear about the latest American influence across the world and think it's rather ridiculous. Many of us think it's a ridiculous idea to put military bases in other countries. Many of us have actually managed to at least get out of our home state and even get out of the country.
There are also a great many idiots in other countries, too, who do the same crud that a lot of idiot Americans do, but don't get called out on it so vocally because they're not American.
I think the lesson best learned from this is that you can't generalize about an entire country.
kldickson
Aug20-09, 08:15 AM
I do, however, have a problem with whichever credulous moron in Ireland decided it was even REMOTELY sane, and not indicative of some sort of inability to think , to pass a blasphemy law.
I mean, seriously. Theocracy = stupid.
jimmysnyder
Aug20-09, 08:27 AM
a blasphemy law.
Forcing or preventing?
jimmysnyder
Aug20-09, 08:30 AM
Unfortunately, half of our country is made up of unscientific, fundamentalist troglodytes, which are mostly concentrated in the south, which, south of Northern Virginia and excluding Charlottesville and east of New Mexico and excluding Austin, Houston, Dallas, and Galveston and excluding Chapel Hill and Atlanta, I'd like to sink into the ocean.
The line runs right through my den.
kldickson
Aug20-09, 10:09 AM
Forcing or preventing?
Preventing. Ireland is held fast in the grip of credulity.
mgb_phys
Aug20-09, 11:29 AM
Preventing. Ireland is held fast in the grip of credulity.
Not wishing to imply that Ireland is slightly behind the curve of western Europe, but when they announce a witch hunt - it's not a metaphor!
On the one hand it's fairly pointless, as a member of the Eu Ireland has to obey the Human Rights Act so this will just involve the prosecution of a few minor comic artists who will appeal to Europe and become minor celebrities for a while - as the lawyers pocket some fees. But the fact that this is the country's response to an economic crisis is a little worrying - still it's probably better than them invading somewhere to distract people.
Many of us think it's a ridiculous idea to put military bases in other countries. Many of us have actually managed to at least get out of our home state and even get out of the country..
Are you putting them into insane or sane group?
mheslep
Aug20-09, 12:37 PM
Yes. Most do. Some don't. Unfortunately, half of our country is made up of unscientific, fundamentalist troglodytes, ...
I think the phrase you want there is 'fools, idiots, bumblers, hicks':
http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110008076
George Bush's appeal, for Mr. Wolfe, was owing to his "great decisiveness and willingness to fight." But as to "this business of my having done the unthinkable and voted for George Bush, I would say, now look, I voted for George Bush but so did 62,040,609 other Americans. Now what does that make them? Of course, they want to say--'Fools like you!' . . . But then they catch themselves, 'Wait a minute, I can't go around saying that the majority of the American people are fools, idiots, bumblers, hicks.' So they just kind of dodge that question. And so many of them are so caught up in this kind of metropolitan intellectual atmosphere that they simply don't go across the Hudson River. They literally do not set foot in the United States. We live in New York in one of the two parenthesis states. They're usually called blue states--they're not blue states, the states on the coast. They're parenthesis states--the entire country lies in between."
I also recommend Wolfe's novel Bonfire of the Vanities. No the movie doesn't count.
I have long believed we should charge countries for protection - wouldn't that be "funny"?
mgb_phys
Aug20-09, 01:13 PM
I have long believed we should charge countries for protection - wouldn't that be "funny"?
DNj1dXi-z0M
(need to start 1:30 in )
Topher925
Sep23-09, 10:20 PM
I don't really want to bring up this thread but it seems that part of the US population is getting nuttier every day.
Shooting ranges, gun dealers and bullet manufacturers say they have never seen such shortages. Bullets, especially for handguns, have been scarce for months because gun enthusiasts are stocking up on ammo, in part because they fear President Barack Obama and the Democratic-controlled Congress will pass antigun legislation — even though nothing specific has been proposed and the president last month signed a law allowing people to carry loaded guns in national parks.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090923/ap_on_re_us/us_ammo_shortage
drankin
Sep23-09, 11:42 PM
I don't really want to bring up this thread but it seems that part of the US population is getting nuttier every day.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090923/ap_on_re_us/us_ammo_shortage
Yep, I haven't been able to find ammo for months. Gone from the shelves as soon as they get them in stock. At least there aren't any layoffs in that industry!
I have to say, I haven't been feeling very proud to be an American lately.
You should never feel proud to be an American, you should be proud of something you accomplish, not something that you were born into; being an American isn't an accomplishment.
drankin
Sep26-09, 01:55 AM
You should never feel proud to be an American, you should be proud of something you accomplish, not something that you were born into; being an American isn't an accomplishment.
Hogwash, who are you to tell someone what they can be proud of? This is a free country, you can be proud of anything you damn well want to.
"You should never feel proud to be an American...", damn pride police! LOL
Hogwash, who are you to tell someone what they can be proud of? This is a free country, you can be proud of anything you damn well want to.
"You should never feel proud to be an American...", damn pride police! LOL
I'm just saying that people should be proud of their accomplishments, not something they were just born into by chance. National pride (not just American pride) is irrational. You can say you're happy to be American/Irish/Chinese/Indian/etc, but proud is the wrong word to choose.
russ_watters
Sep26-09, 11:25 AM
If you can be proud of your kids or your friends, you can be proud of your ancestors. Also, living in a free country means the freedom to leave and immigrants had the freedom to come here. These are personal choices that can be a source of pride. In addition, anyone who takes part in the electroral process or even just pays taxes has a direct hand in what the country as a whole is doing. We're members of a team and there is nothing wrong with having pride in your team.
The opposite of national pride is national shame. Unlike the Left Wing (and apparently Obama), most Americans are proud of their country.
OmCheeto
Sep26-09, 12:40 PM
The opposite of national pride is national shame. Unlike the Left Wing (and apparently Obama), most Americans are proud of their country.
I suppose if one can only see things as either black or white, then this might be true. But some of us are capable of comprehending the various shades of grey in between.
...in a speech delivered at the Anti-Imperialistic Conference, Chicago, Illinois, October 17, 1899: (http://www.bartleby.com/73/1641.html)
I confidently trust that the American people will prove themselves … too wise not to detect the false pride or the dangerous ambitions or the selfish schemes which so often hide themselves under that deceptive cry of mock patriotism: ‘Our country, right or wrong!’ They will not fail to recognize that our dignity, our free institutions and the peace and welfare of this and coming generations of Americans will be secure only as we cling to the watchword of true patriotism: ‘Our country—when right to be kept right; when wrong to be put right.’
I think it is the unqualified "I'm proud to be an American" which irks some of us. It's like saying "I'm proud to have 5 fingers on my left hand". It's totally meaningless, and reeks of shallowness.
I suppose if one can only see things as either black or white, then this might be true. But some of us are capable of comprehending the various shades of grey in between.
...in a speech delivered at the Anti-Imperialistic Conference, Chicago, Illinois, October 17, 1899: (http://www.bartleby.com/73/1641.html)
I think it is the unqualified "I'm proud to be an American" which irks some of us. It's like saying "I'm proud to have 5 fingers on my left hand". It's totally meaningless, and reeks of shallowness.
My claim of "I'm proud to be an American" is not unqualified.
I am proud of my country for many things. I believe the United States has advanced civilization and improved the living standards for millions of people. The US is often the first responder to disasters and the leader in the fight to prevent hunger and disease.
I've posted this many times, we can't help anyone unless we are viable and strong - leaders lead, children dream, and babies cry.
OmCheeto
Sep26-09, 02:04 PM
and babies cry.
Thank you for confirming my suspicion:
http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/2009/06/custom_1245249209375_becksmaller_03.jpg
Thank you for confirming my suspicion:
http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/2009/06/custom_1245249209375_becksmaller_03.jpg
It might be more productive for you to explain why you are ashamed (excuse me, not proud ) of your country.
GeorginaS
Sep26-09, 02:53 PM
The opposite of national pride is national shame. Unlike the Left Wing (and apparently Obama), most Americans are proud of their country.
No. The opposite of "pride" is "humility", not shame. (Notwithstanding what some radio and teevee personalities will try to tell you.)
National pride/nationalism/patriotism are all forms of bigotry and unfounded self promotion. There's nothing wrong with admiring the accomplishments of your forerunners (who lived, by chance, within the parametres of an area of land delineated on paper by arbitrarily drawn non-existent lines) and believing in like-values as set out by them and continuing them.
So yeah, I have to agree with other people here: taking "pride" in a accident of birth is irrational.
OmCheeto
Sep26-09, 02:54 PM
It might be more productive for you to explain why you are ashamed (excuse me, not proud ) of your country.
This thread is about laughing, not pride or shame. We've really gotten off topic.
BTW, you forgot temper tantrums (http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/168451/may-13-2008/bill-o-reilly-inside-edition)......
If there is anything we are better at than most every other nation, it is laughing at ourselves.
With the exception of the British I suppose. The Python troop has no peers.
Perhaps the G20 conference should include that as a topic: "Freedom of comedians to point out the idiosyncrasies of ones own country without fear of repercussion from ones own government".
But that kind of implies a certain pride in my concept of our freedom of pointing out the truth. My bad.
Actually, this was in the first post "Is it possible for president Obama to impeach us? I wonder how high our approval rating is with the government. "
To this I ask, what has Obama DONE to make us proud of him?
Gitmo - still open.
Iraq - still fighting.
Afghanistan - the "good war" is now maybe not a good idea.
Global Warming - taxing us, raising utility rates, and leaving nuclear, coal and petroleum to others is the only option.
ACORN - not really a concern.
Stimulus - no time to read, yet only 13% of funds dispersed 6 months later.
Health care reform - insurance companies are the problem, not unfunded obligations of $100 trillion in Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid.
Economy - Saved (and created - Government?) jobs counts (???), he saved us?
Iran - 2nd nuclear enrichment site identified.
CIA - re-opened investigation during a war.
Czars - Was Van Jones REALLY a Communist? Have the others been vetted?
Apology Tour - Now that Obama is President, we can be a good country.
Integral
Sep26-09, 04:20 PM
Actually, this was in the first post "Is it possible for president Obama to impeach us? I wonder how high our approval rating is with the government. "
To this I ask, what has Obama DONE to make us proud of him?
Gitmo - still open.
Iraq - still fighting.
Afghanistan - the "good war" is now maybe not a good idea.
Global Warming - taxing us, raising utility rates, and leaving nuclear, coal and petroleum to others is the only option.
ACORN - not really a concern.
Stimulus - no time to read, yet only 13% of funds dispersed 6 months later.
Health care reform - insurance companies are the problem, not unfunded obligations of $100 trillion in Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid.
Economy - Saved (and created - Government?) jobs counts (???), he saved us?
Iran - 2nd nuclear enrichment site identified.
CIA - re-opened investigation during a war.
Czars - Was Van Jones REALLY a Communist? Have the others been vetted?
Apology Tour - Now that Obama is President, we can be a good country.
Anybody who thought that Obama was going to fix all of our problems in a few weeks is delusional. It took Bush & Co. 8yrs to get us in the pile of Sh@t we are currently in. Obama, or anybody else for that matter, is going to have a hard time sitting things right, if it is even possible. So grow up and learn the meaning of patience.
Anybody who thought that Obama was going to fix all of our problems in a few weeks is delusional. It took Bush & Co. 8yrs to get us in the pile of Sh@t we are currently in. Obama, or anybody else for that matter, is going to have a hard time sitting things right, if it is even possible. So grow up and learn the meaning of patience.
Well I'm glad we can agree that it's too early for Obama to lay claim for any of his so-called "achievements" - aside from being elected and breaking campaign promises (Earmarks, Lobbying, line by line Bill negotiation, transparency).
mheslep
Sep26-09, 05:42 PM
Actually, this was in the first post "Is it possible for president Obama to impeach us? I wonder how high our approval rating is with the government. "
To this I ask, what has Obama DONE to make us proud of him?
...Plenty. I didn't support the guy in the campaign, disagree with most of all his policies now, but as an American I still can find much about the US President to be proud of. Obama calling Kanye West a 'jackass (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/music-news/6196938/Kanye-West-Barack-Obama-jackass-tape-posted-by-TMZ.html)' jumps out at the moment (not that the Pres should do that everyday but it seemed to slip out and I am happy to see he feels that way and has the gumption to say so).
Plenty. I didn't support the guy in the campaign, disagree with most of all his policies now, but as an American I still can find much about the US President to be proud of. Obama calling Kanye West a 'jackass (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/music-news/6196938/Kanye-West-Barack-Obama-jackass-tape-posted-by-TMZ.html)' jumps out at the moment (not that the Pres should do that everyday but it seemed to slip out and I am happy to see he feels that way and has the gumption to say so).
Well, you've got me there - and there WAS the beer summit.
http://www.google.com/search?q=beer+summit&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a
Jasongreat
Sep28-09, 08:27 PM
We want him to grow some cahunas and push this stuff through and let the right-wing whine all they want!
I think thats what a lot on the right want also, remember Clinton pushing through his assault weapons ban, how did that work out for the Left? If I remember right the next election saw the left loose thier majority in congress, remember newt gingrich?
As far as the original thread goes, the only reason I could see other countries looking at us and laughing is, they see us trying to do the same things that have destroyed their own countries.
Jasongreat
Sep28-09, 09:05 PM
Anybody who thought that Obama was going to fix all of our problems in a few weeks is delusional.
I agree but would go a little further and say any one who believes a politician will fix a problem is delusional, the problem is their reelection ticket.
It took Bush & Co. 8yrs to get us in the pile of Sh@t we are currently in.
I also agree with this, however I hope you include the democrat majority congress of his two last years as part of the Co., as I do.
Obama, or anybody else for that matter, is going to have a hard time sitting things right,
I agree again, especially if he does exactly the same things Bush and Co did for the last eight years such as deficit spending, carrying on two wars, and bailing out big corporations.
if it is even possible. So grow up and learn the meaning of patience.
What do you mean "if" it is even possible, they said when we elected them they would solve the problem. Are you implying politicians are liars? I wish our politicians would grow up and learn the meaning of patience also, the patience to read a bill before signing it, the patience to wait for all the data to come in before jumping to conclusions, the patience to allow proper vetting of a bill before voting on it, the patience to allow dissenting opinion into the discussions, and most of all the patience to pay off one debt before accumulating the next one.
Anybody who thought that Obama was going to fix all of our problems in a few weeks is delusional. It took Bush & Co. 8yrs to get us in the pile of Sh@t we are currently in. Obama, or anybody else for that matter, is going to have a hard time sitting things right, if it is even possible. So grow up and learn the meaning of patience.
Then you agree Obama should quit telling the world leaders about his "accomplishments" in the past 8 months?
Then you agree Obama should quit telling the world leaders about his "accomplishments" in the past 8 months?
That's a very odd comment on a couple of levels.
First, it is a complete non-sequitur. Integral notes that Obama can't solve all your problems immediately. That doesn't mean you haven't achieved anything, or that you shouldn't make any mention progress that has been made.
Second, it seems completely out of touch with what Obama is saying. Pretty every report I have seen of summits or meetings in which President Obama is involved has focused not on boasting about what has been done, but in emphasizing the problems and issue that are still ahead of you and the rest of the world.
So in brief. Of course you can speak of what has been achieved while at the same time recognizing there's still a lot more to do. The kind of negativity that refuses to recognize any steps until you've finished the walk would be ridiculous.
And unless you're getting radically different news from me, the major focus of what I've seen from the current administration at the international level continues to be one what is still to be done.
Felicitations -- sylas
That's a very odd comment on a couple of levels.
First, it is a complete non-sequitur. Integral notes that Obama can't solve all your problems immediately. That doesn't mean you haven't achieved anything, or that you shouldn't make any mention progress that has been made.
Second, it seems completely out of touch with what Obama is saying. Pretty every report I have seen of summits or meetings in which President Obama is involved has focused not on boasting about what has been done, but in emphasizing the problems and issue that are still ahead of you and the rest of the world.
So in brief. Of course you can speak of what has been achieved while at the same time recognizing there's still a lot more to do. The kind of negativity that refuses to recognize any steps until you've finished the walk would be ridiculous.
And unless you're getting radically different news from me, the major focus of what I've seen from the current administration at the international level continues to be one what is still to be done.
Felicitations -- sylas
Please read this news account.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33004755/ns/business-world_business/
"PITTSBURGH - World leaders on Friday issued sweeping promises to fix a malfunctioning global economic system in hopes of heading off future financial meltdowns. President Barack Obama said actions taken so far “brought the global economy back from the brink.”
“We leave here today confident and united,” Obama said at the conclusion of a two-day gathering of the world’s 20 top economies to deal with the worst financial crisis since the 1930s.
The leaders agreed to keep stimulus plans, which include government spending and low interest rates, generally in place in their respective countries for now to avoid derailing still-fragile recoveries. Obama had pressed for just such a course and praised the decision.
“Our coordinated stimulus plans played an indispensable role in averting catastrophe. Now we must make sure that when growth returns, jobs do, too,” he said at a wrap-up news conference. “That’s why we will continue our stimulus efforts until our people are back to work and phase them out when our recovery is strong.”
In a statement, all the G-20 leaders declared major progress from what they called their coordinated efforts and “forceful response.”
“It worked,” they said.
Although many of the pronouncements and actions taken by the leaders lacked specifics or details on follow-through, leaders were bold in pronouncing the gathering — the third G-20 summit in a year — as a big success.
“There was unanimity around the table that the errors of the past won’t happen again,” said French President Nicolas Sarkozy.
“The old system of international economic cooperation is over. The new system, as of today, has begun,” said British Prime Minister Gordon Brown, referring to a decision to enhance the status for the Group of 20 to make it the lead group for dealing with future international economic issues, eclipsing the older, Western-dominated Group of Eight.
“I have the impression that we are on a successful path,” said German Chancellor Angela Merkel, before leaving Pittsburgh to fly back to Berlin, where she faces German voters on Sunday.
They moved to require members to subject their economic policies to the scrutiny of a peer review process that would determine whether they were “collectively consistent” with sustainable global growth. They promised tighter and more coordinated financial regulation.
And, repeating pledges from G-20 summits in November and April, when financial panic was rampant, they vowed anew to “reject protectionism in all its forms.” They also went along with Obama’s push for a pledge to withdraw government subsidies from fossil fuels such as oil, coal and natural gas linked to global warming.
While issuing lofty vows, the leaders failed to define how to accomplish many of them and were quickly back to bickering over details.
They did not suggest, for instance, how the peer review process would be enforced. And they failed to mention that previous pledges to avoid protectionism had been ignored by nearly all 20 members.
Disagreements over whether China should gain voting strength in the International Monetary Fund at the expense of European nations and over global warming language marred the summit."
The report continues. However, when Obama talks about stimulus and jobs creation he fails to mention that TARP bailed out the banks, less than 20% of the stimulus funds in the US have been dispersed, many of the "saved jobs" can't be documented and many of the "created jobs" are Government positions.
russ_watters
Sep28-09, 11:24 PM
I think it is the unqualified "I'm proud to be an American" which irks some of us. It's like saying "I'm proud to have 5 fingers on my left hand". It's totally meaningless, and reeks of shallowness. Why do you assume peoples' pride in their country is unqualified?
russ_watters
Sep28-09, 11:30 PM
No. The opposite of "pride" is "humility", not shame. (Notwithstanding what some radio and teevee personalities will try to tell you.)
According to dictionary.com, it only gives one antonym to "pride" and it is "humility", but it gives three antonyms to "shame": "pride, self-esteem, self-respect"....
...and if you go to the main thesaurus entry for "humility", you get this: "abasement, bashfulness, demureness, diffidence, docility, fawning, inferiority complex, lack of pride, lowliness, meekness, mortification, nonresistance, obedience, obsequiousness, passiveness, reserve, resignation, self-abasement, self-abnegation, servility, sheepishness, shyness, subjection, submissiveness, subservience, timidity, timorousness, unobtrusiveness, unpretentiousness"
So I'd say you are right that humility is an antonym of pride, but you are wrong that shame is not.
OmCheeto
Sep29-09, 12:31 AM
Why do you assume peoples' pride in their country is unqualified?
Because few of them who say so know why. I've discussed it with many people, from many countries. It's a philosophical thing. Which is why tried to steer this thread back onto topic. GeorginaS had about the best answer I've ever seen to the off topic question. But I think one would have to understand Zen to understand her answer.
There are no borders. We made them up. There are no countries. We invented them. There is only us. To be prideful of something imaginary is to be, um, .......,
Sorry.
Can't find the word in the dictionary.
russ_watters
Sep29-09, 06:46 AM
Because few of them who say so know why. I've discussed it with many people, from many countries. Few people who are patriotic know why? I've discussed the concept with a lot of people too and I don't know that I've ever come across a person who was confused about why they were patriotic! But I have come across a lot of people who weren't patriotic who didn't understand the concept: GeorginaS had about the best answer I've ever seen to the off topic question. But I think one would have to understand Zen to understand her answer.
There are no borders. We made them up. There are no countries. We invented them. There is only us. To be prideful of something imaginary is to be, um, .......Just because we invented something, that doesn't make it imaginary. I'm quite certain my car exists and is a pretty solid concept! What you call "Zen" just sounds like nonsense to me. Honestly, it just sounds to me like you just don't want to accept/understand peoples' real opinions/positions about the concept.
Please read this news account.
The report does not correspond to what you described previously; a case of President Obama simply speaking of "his" accomplishments. The statements covered combined actions from the nations at the summit. And -- as I would expect and as I described previously -- there was a focus on what still needs to happen. Future actions were the introduction and the conclusion of the president's press conference remarks; and every mention of what has been achieved was followed with a greater amount of text focused on what is still to be done.
I stand by my previous remark; and this news story indicates that the real problem is not that you aren't reading the same stories; but that you only seem to see a fraction of what is there.
My previous post stands unmodified; and president Obama's press conference fits what I said previously. Here it is again:
(1) Of course you can speak of what has been achieved while at the same time recognizing there's still a lot more to do. The kind of negativity that refuses to recognize any steps until you've finished the walk would be ridiculous.
(2) Unless you're getting radically different news from me, the major focus of what I've seen from the current administration at the international level continues to be on what is still to be done.
Cheers -- sylas
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