View Full Version : quantum mechanics and general relativity
alistair
Jun30-04, 05:35 PM
<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','toolbar=no, location=no,scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no ,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usenet ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>Special relativity was incorporated into quantum mechanics by Paul\nDirac after quantum mechanics had been invented.Could general\nrelativity have been invented before special relativity?\n\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form"> View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky>Special relativity was incorporated into quantum mechanics by Paul
Dirac after quantum mechanics had been invented.Could general
relativity have been invented before special relativity?
<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','toolbar=no, location=no,scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no ,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usenet ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>\nalistair wrote:\n> Special relativity was incorporated into quantum mechanics by Paul\n> Dirac after quantum mechanics had been invented.Could general\n> relativity have been invented before special relativity?\n\nActually, Riemann invented the math for representing curved manifolds\n50 years before einsteins SR. Apparently he tried to use it for\nunifying gravity and electricity, but failed because he did not\ninclude time in spacetime. That is the essence of SR and that is what\nwas needed to get the bottom line calculations to come out right. It\ndid take Einstein some time to arrive at the synthesis of SR and\nRiemann curvature (from 1905 to 1916 I think). Incidentally, Hilbert\ndid arrive at a similar conclusion at the same time as Einstein\n(according to Schutz at least).\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form"> View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky>alistair wrote:
> Special relativity was incorporated into quantum mechanics by Paul
> Dirac after quantum mechanics had been invented.Could general
> relativity have been invented before special relativity?
Actually, Riemann invented the math for representing curved manifolds
50 years before einsteins SR. Apparently he tried to use it for
unifying gravity and electricity, but failed because he did not
include time in spacetime. That is the essence of SR and that is what
was needed to get the bottom line calculations to come out right. It
did take Einstein some time to arrive at the synthesis of SR and
Riemann curvature (from 1905 to 1916 I think). Incidentally, Hilbert
did arrive at a similar conclusion at the same time as Einstein
(according to Schutz at least).
Riemann's work was mathematics, not physics. One of the hot topics in math in those days was non-Euclidean geometry.
Where did you get the idea he was trying to unify gravity and electricity. In Riemann's day electricity was barely understood. Einstein was trying to unify, not Riemann.
Could general relativity have been invented before special relativity?
It wasn't. I am not sure what you mean by "could have been". Also what has this have to do with Dirac's work?
greywolf42
Jul7-04, 08:09 AM
<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','toolbar=no, location=no,scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no ,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usenet ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>\nmathman <mathnucl@optonline.net> wrote in message\nnews:mathman.18u4z8@physicsforums.com...\ n>\n>\n>\n> Riemann\'s work was mathematics, not physics. One of the hot topics in\n> math in those days was non-Euclidean geometry.\n>\n> Where did you get the idea he was trying to unify gravity and\n> electricity. In Riemann\'s day electricity was barely understood.\n> Einstein was trying to unify, not Riemann.\n\nRiemann did produce the mathematics we know by his name in 1851.\n\nHowever, in 1861, Electricity and magnetism were unified by Maxwell. (I\'d\nsay that Maxwell\'s equations amount to a pretty fair understanding of\nelectricity.) Riemann then produced an attempt at unifying EM and\ngravitation (Maxwell also had a go at it). Riemann used the mathematics\n(which he developed) for this purpose. This is one reason that Grossmann\n(Einstein\'s partner in GR development) used Riemann\'s mathematics for his\nstarting point of the "Entwurf" version GR in 1913.\n\n--\ngreywolf42\nubi dubium ibi libertas\n{remove planet for return e-mail}\n\n\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form"> View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky>mathman <mathnucl@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:mathman.18u4z8@physicsforums.com...
>
>
>
> Riemann's work was mathematics, not physics. One of the hot topics in
> math in those days was non-Euclidean geometry.
>
> Where did you get the idea he was trying to unify gravity and
> electricity. In Riemann's day electricity was barely understood.
> Einstein was trying to unify, not Riemann.
Riemann did produce the mathematics we know by his name in 1851.
However, in 1861, Electricity and magnetism were unified by Maxwell. (I'd
say that Maxwell's equations amount to a pretty fair understanding of
electricity.) Riemann then produced an attempt at unifying EM and
gravitation (Maxwell also had a go at it). Riemann used the mathematics
(which he developed) for this purpose. This is one reason that Grossmann
(Einstein's partner in GR development) used Riemann's mathematics for his
starting point of the "Entwurf" version GR in 1913.
--
greywolf42
ubi dubium ibi libertas
{remove planet for return e-mail}
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