Career advice needed. [Archive]

WishfulThinker

Jul6-04, 02:47 PM

<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','toolbar=no, location=no,scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no ,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usenet ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>\nGreetings,\n\nI obtained a BS in History four years ago and have been working as a\nsoftware developer. I have always felt under-challenged by my current\nwork, however, and for a long time have been feeling the urge to do\nsomething more important for humanity. Recently I have been\ncontemplating the possibility of getting back to school as a Physics\nundergrad, with the goal of eventually engaging in nuclear energy\nresearch. I just turned 27.\n\nI have the following questions for the good people of this board:\n\n1. Am I nuts? Have you ever heard of such a thing?\n2. I need to brush up on my rust-encrusted math skills. What areas of\nmath should I work on BEFORE re-entering university, and up to what\nlevel? What other academic areas should I prepare myself on?\n3. How hard would it be for me to re-enter as a Physics undergrad,\ncompared to someone fresh from highschool?\n4. Which undergraduate schools do you recommend, and which graduate\nschools? I prefer good quality public universities. My previous\nstint was at UCLA.\n5. Any other advice is greatly appreciated.\n\nThank you in advance.\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form">  View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky>Greetings,

I obtained a BS in History four years ago and have been working as a
software developer. I have always felt under-challenged by my current
work, however, and for a long time have been feeling the urge to do
something more important for humanity. Recently I have been
contemplating the possibility of getting back to school as a Physics
undergrad, with the goal of eventually engaging in nuclear energy
research. I just turned 27.

I have the following questions for the good people of this board:

1. Am I nuts? Have you ever heard of such a thing?
2. I need to brush up on my rust-encrusted math skills. What areas of
math should I work on BEFORE re-entering university, and up to what
level? What other academic areas should I prepare myself on?
3. How hard would it be for me to re-enter as a Physics undergrad,
compared to someone fresh from highschool?
4. Which undergraduate schools do you recommend, and which graduate
schools? I prefer good quality public universities. My previous
stint was at UCLA.
5. Any other advice is greatly appreciated.

Thank you in advance.

FrediFizzx

Jul7-04, 09:09 AM

<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','toolbar=no, location=no,scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no ,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usenet ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>"WishfulThinker" <tony_external@bluetentacle.com> wrote in message\nnews:40eaf3be\\$1@news.sentex.net...\n|\n | Greetings,\n|\n| I obtained a BS in History four years ago and have been working as a\n| software developer. I have always felt under-challenged by my current\n| work, however, and for a long time have been feeling the urge to do\n| something more important for humanity. Recently I have been\n| contemplating the possibility of getting back to school as a Physics\n| undergrad, with the goal of eventually engaging in nuclear energy\n| research. I just turned 27.\n|\n| I have the following questions for the good people of this board:\n|\n| 1. Am I nuts? Have you ever heard of such a thing?\n\nYou are not nuts. If you are not happy with what you are doing, then do\nsomething about it while you can. I am pushing 60 and I am teaching myself\nparticle physics by self-study because now I make too much money to quit and\ngo back to school. My big wish is to hit the lotto so I could go back to\nschool full time. ;-)\n\n| 2. I need to brush up on my rust-encrusted math skills. What areas of\n| math should I work on BEFORE re-entering university, and up to what\n| level? What other academic areas should I prepare myself on?\n\nWe don\'t know your current level of math. But for physics; calculus, linear\nalgebra, etc.\n\n| 3. How hard would it be for me to re-enter as a Physics undergrad,\n| compared to someone fresh from highschool?\n\nDon\'t sweat it. Just go for it.\n\n| 4. Which undergraduate schools do you recommend, and which graduate\n| schools? I prefer good quality public universities. My previous\n| stint was at UCLA.\n\nGo back to UCLA if you can for undergrad. I think once you are in the UC\nsystem, you will have a wide variety of graduate paths to choose from. But\ngo to their website and check on it.\n\nFrediFizzx\n\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form">  View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky>"WishfulThinker" <tony_external@bluetentacle.com> wrote in message
news:40eaf3be$1@news.sentex.net...
|
| Greetings,
|
| I obtained a BS in History four years ago and have been working as a
| software developer. I have always felt under-challenged by my current
| work, however, and for a long time have been feeling the urge to do
| something more important for humanity. Recently I have been
| contemplating the possibility of getting back to school as a Physics
| undergrad, with the goal of eventually engaging in nuclear energy
| research. I just turned 27.
|
| I have the following questions for the good people of this board:
|
| 1. Am I nuts? Have you ever heard of such a thing?

You are not nuts. If you are not happy with what you are doing, then do
something about it while you can. I am pushing 60 and I am teaching myself
particle physics by self-study because now I make too much money to quit and
go back to school. My big wish is to hit the lotto so I could go back to
school full time. ;-)

| 2. I need to brush up on my rust-encrusted math skills. What areas of
| math should I work on BEFORE re-entering university, and up to what
| level? What other academic areas should I prepare myself on?

We don't know your current level of math. But for physics; calculus, linear
algebra, etc.

| 3. How hard would it be for me to re-enter as a Physics undergrad,
| compared to someone fresh from highschool?

Don't sweat it. Just go for it.

| 4. Which undergraduate schools do you recommend, and which graduate
| schools? I prefer good quality public universities. My previous
| stint was at UCLA.

Go back to UCLA if you can for undergrad. I think once you are in the UC
system, you will have a wide variety of graduate paths to choose from. But
go to their website and check on it.

FrediFizzx

tessel@tum.bot

Jul9-04, 04:49 AM

<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','toolbar=no, location=no,scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no ,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usenet ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>On Tue, 6 Jul 2004, WishfulThinker wrote:\n\n> I obtained a BS in History four years ago and have been working as a\n> software developer.\n\nThat is indeed an unusual background, but you can probably make it work in\nyour favor.\n\n> I have always felt under-challenged by my current work, however, and for\n> a long time have been feeling the urge to do something more important\n> for humanity. Recently I have been contemplating the possibility of\n> getting back to school as a Physics undergrad, with the goal of\n> eventually engaging in nuclear energy research. I just turned 27.\n\nWhat city do you live in? LA? There are a fair number of large public\nunis in California; a talented and determined student can acquire a superb\neducation in physics/math at any of these, including UCLA. Several people\nwho post here semiregularly are full professors at math or physics\ndepartments in CA, or elsewhere on the west coast, and can no doubt\nprovide help to a deserving aspiring student.\n\nHere is a widely accepted fact (?) which might help put your "wishful\nthinking" in perspective: pursuing a career (or even an advanced degree)\nin math/physics is inherently risky and there are no guarantees of\nsuccess, -no matter how good your UG background-. The good news is that\neveryone who sits on an Admissions Committee will know very well that\ndetermination and talent are much more important than preparation in terms\nof eventual success, as defined by earning an advanced degree.\n\nOf course, many (most?) math/physics Ph.D.s wind up working as programmers\nor sysadmins or in the financial/insurance industries, so you might find\nyourself programming again one day, but if so, probably you would be doing\nsomething more interesting (and better paid)!\n\nAnd if you are a really superb programmer, this is likely evidence of\ngenuine talents (e.g. patience, ability to focus and to think abstractly)\nwhich will probably also serve you well in a math/physics related career.\n\n> 1. Am I nuts?\n\nHeck, no matter what your background, you -need- to be nuts to attempt\nmath/sci graduate school! :-/\n\n> Have you ever heard of such a thing?\n\nI do know of several cases of a Math graduate program accepting\nextraordinary students (including overaged returning students) who did not\nhave an UG degree of any kind. The talent of these students came to light\nin various ways, but all, AFAIK, were enrolled in an undergraduate degree\nprogram, were spotted by an alert professor, and were promoted forthwith\nto graduate school.\n\nUnless you have many tens of thousands of dollars in your savings account,\nor know something I don\'t, I am not sure that obtaining a second B.A. is\nfinancially feasible. But one great thing about -grad school- in the U.S.\nis that American citizens who qualify to enter a Ph.D. program in math,\napplied math, or physics, can often have their tuition waived and may even\nreceive a generous living stipend (perhaps in return for some TAing).\n\nI am not sure about physics, but you might be surprised how slight the\nentry requirements can be for -graduate- applied math programs and even\nfor most "pure math" programs, in terms of level of preparation.\nAdmissions Committees are probably far more impressed by hard evidence of\nextraordinary talent and determination.\n\nBe aware that a lot of applied math could equally well be called "applied\nphysics" or even just plain "physics".\n\nAt least if you are willing to try applied math, I can think of\ndepartments where the real entry requirements are probably limited to a\nsolid background in two years of undergraduate math (maybe eight courses).\n\nIn your case, on the theory that "the best evidence of success is\nsuccess", you could proceed as follows:\n\n1. identify a uni with a suitable grad program and advanced undergrad\ncourses (applied math/physics faculty will probably have home pages\ndescribing their research, so you can surf the web looking for topics you\nfind exciting),\n\n2. choose an upper level course like UG real analysis or complex analysis\nor both, in which you would compete against the best UGs at your large\npublic uni, and find out the prerequisites for this course,\n\n3. study these prereqs on your own from books (by paying a yearly fee you\ncan probably arrange to use your local college library; if not, you can\nbuy suitable textbooks via Amazon or whatever),\n\n4. next time the course is offered, move to the uni town, sign up for the\ncourse as an extramural student (this means that you pay your own tuition\nbut don\'t enroll as an undergraduate degree student), and earn an A+ in\nfirst quarter/semester,\n\n5. even better, see if you can sign up to take the Putnam exam (a national\ntalent-search exam in math),\n\n6. apply to enter the graduate program at your uni the next Fall, paying\nparticular attention to your application essay (explain clearly why you\nbelieve you can make your background work to your advantage in their\nprogram); be sure ask your prof. in the course to write a -blind- letter\nof recommendation for your application (the department will probably want\nnumerous letters and such like, but most of these requirements can be\nwaived, especially if you have a faculty member backing your application),\n\n7. if successful, you would probably receive a tuition waiver, a generous\nstipend for first year, and you would be allowed (even required) to spend\nyour first year acing the UG courses which will prepare you for first year\ngraduate school; if not, repeat steps 4--6 as often as neccessary,\n\n8. do well in the first year, do well in the second year (taking the\nstandard first year graduate courses), pass the first hurdles (written\nexams, language exam), and you are on your way!\n\nThe point is, this route would enable you to entirely -skip over- the time\nand expense of a second UG education. Most faculty will immediately\nappreciate that this is superfluous in a case like yours (life experience\nand all that). Even if it didn\'t work out, you would have not suffered a\nhuge financial hit as a penalty for even making the attempt.\n\nIf this plan seems discouraging, complicated and circuitous, well, I would\nrespond that -research- is discouraging, complicated and circuitous! In\nfact, if you are rebuffed the first time around you apply to a graduate\nprogram, if I were you I\'d make precisely this point in your application\nessay the second time around: "I have taken an inventive approach, I\'ve\nmodified my approach in reaction to an initial setback, and as you can see\nI\'m not giving up". I have no doubt they will take the point: initiative,\nadapatibility, and sheer stubbornness are all essential character virtues\nin this game.\n\nI don\'t know if you could try something analogous with physics substituted\nfor applied math above, but I suspect you that could. If not, if you are\ndead set upon physics at all costs, if you got into a math program and had\na good first year, you could very likely transfer to the physics program\nof UCLA or whatever after a year of math, as long as you can somehow\ndemonstrate a mastery of enough UG level physics. And a year of math\ncertainly never hurt any physics student!\n\nA third option: have you thought about pursuing a career as a historian of\nphysics? You already have the historical background; the math/physics\nbackground is IMO far more important (and far harder to acquire, to judge\nfrom the work of most practitioners in this field). Are you are good at\ndocumenting your programs? A clear and fluent writer in natural language?\nIf so, if you got into a degree program in The History of Science (they\nare not easy to find, but they do exist), you might well find you have a\n-better- background (programming) than your peers. If this sounds\nintriguing, do some web surfing, and read some books by west coast\npractitioners.\n\nHmm... I\'ve been awaiting the opportunity to go off on another rampage\nwith the theme "all history is a lie", but I see that this is not the\nmoment to do this :-/\n\n> 3. How hard would it be for me to re-enter\n\n[snip]\n\n> compared to someone fresh from highschool?\n\nI can think of "reentering students" who initially expressed a similar\nfear. One of them was clearly excelling after only a few weeks.\n\nI doubt that your chances of success at jumping into a graduate program\n(after taking and excelling in a few courses in the department of interest\nas an extramural student, doing very well on a talent search exam, or some\nother way to make your mark) are affected by your level of preparation as\nmuch as by your determination and talent. Irrespective of preparation, I\nthink character virtues plus talent are invaluable.\n\n> 2. I need to brush up on my rust-encrusted math skills. What areas of\n> math should I work on BEFORE re-entering university, and up to what\n> level? What other academic areas should I prepare myself on?\n\nWell, for either applied math or physics you will certainly need a strong\nbackground in differential equations and real and complex analysis. For\nthis you need a strong background in "abstract linear algebra" (vector\nspaces and linear operators, not just matrices) and "advanced calculus".\n\nTo get some idea, and also for (3) above), I\'d recommend you look at\nstandard advanced UG textbooks such as\n\nauthor = {Mary L. Boas},\ntitle = {Mathematical Methods in the Physical Sciences},\npublisher = {Wiley},\nyear = 1982}\n\nThis is very clear, with good problems and solutions, so very well suited\nfor self-study. Mastering the subject matter in this one book would\nprobably take you a long way! If this seems too hard at first glance, the\nSchaum Outline series has some excellent problem books on differential\nequations and linear algebra which are old but (usually) not so old that\nthey use hopelessly outdated terminology.\n\nOTH, IMO Dover books are generally to be avoided, with a handful of\nexceptions, since these are often so old (typically, reprints of books\nfirst published around 1930-1950) that their terminology/focus will only\nmislead you about what you\'ll encounter in a contemporary classroom. To\nforestall people who complain whenever I say this, it is true that one of\nthe very best Dover books in the area of PDEs was first published in the\n19th century, and is still one of the best introductions to the material\nit covers, and there are other counterexamples to my claim that most Dover\nbooks are not good first books for a contemporary student. But as I see\nit, right now you want books which will quickly prepare you to fit right\ninto an early 21st century classroom.\n\nGood luck!\n\n"T. Essel" (hiding somewhere in cyberspace)\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form">  View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky>On Tue, 6 Jul 2004, WishfulThinker wrote:

> I obtained a BS in History four years ago and have been working as a
> software developer.

That is indeed an unusual background, but you can probably make it work in
your favor.

> I have always felt under-challenged by my current work, however, and for
> a long time have been feeling the urge to do something more important
> for humanity. Recently I have been contemplating the possibility of
> getting back to school as a Physics undergrad, with the goal of
> eventually engaging in nuclear energy research. I just turned 27.

What city do you live in? LA? There are a fair number of large public
unis in California; a talented and determined student can acquire a superb
education in physics/math at any of these, including UCLA. Several people
who post here semiregularly are full professors at math or physics
departments in CA, or elsewhere on the west coast, and can no doubt
provide help to a deserving aspiring student.

Here is a widely accepted fact (?) which might help put your "wishful
thinking" in perspective: pursuing a career (or even an advanced degree)
in math/physics is inherently risky and there are no guarantees of
success, -no matter how good your UG background-. The good news is that
everyone who sits on an Admissions Committee will know very well that
determination and talent are much more important than preparation in terms
of eventual success, as defined by earning an advanced degree.

Of course, many (most?) math/physics Ph.D.s wind up working as programmers
or sysadmins or in the financial/insurance industries, so you might find
yourself programming again one day, but if so, probably you would be doing
something more interesting (and better paid)!

And if you are a really superb programmer, this is likely evidence of
genuine talents (e.g. patience, ability to focus and to think abstractly)
which will probably also serve you well in a math/physics related career.

> 1. Am I nuts?

Heck, no matter what your background, you -need- to be nuts to attempt
math/sci graduate school! :-/

> Have you ever heard of such a thing?

I do know of several cases of a Math graduate program accepting
extraordinary students (including overaged returning students) who did not
have an UG degree of any kind. The talent of these students came to light
in various ways, but all, AFAIK, were enrolled in an undergraduate degree
program, were spotted by an alert professor, and were promoted forthwith
to graduate school.

Unless you have many tens of thousands of dollars in your savings account,
or know something I don't, I am not sure that obtaining a second B.A. is
financially feasible. But one great thing about -grad school- in the U.S.
is that American citizens who qualify to enter a Ph.D. program in math,
applied math, or physics, can often have their tuition waived and may even
receive a generous living stipend (perhaps in return for some TAing).

I am not sure about physics, but you might be surprised how slight the
entry requirements can be for -graduate- applied math programs and even
for most "pure math" programs, in terms of level of preparation.
Admissions Committees are probably far more impressed by hard evidence of
extraordinary talent and determination.

Be aware that a lot of applied math could equally well be called "applied
physics" or even just plain "physics".

At least if you are willing to try applied math, I can think of
departments where the real entry requirements are probably limited to a
solid background in two years of undergraduate math (maybe eight courses).

In your case, on the theory that "the best evidence of success is
success", you could proceed as follows:

1. identify a uni with a suitable grad program and advanced undergrad
courses (applied math/physics faculty will probably have home pages
describing their research, so you can surf the web looking for topics you
find exciting),

2. choose an upper level course like UG real analysis or complex analysis
or both, in which you would compete against the best UGs at your large
public uni, and find out the prerequisites for this course,

3. study these prereqs on your own from books (by paying a yearly fee you
can probably arrange to use your local college library; if not, you can
buy suitable textbooks via Amazon or whatever),

4. next time the course is offered, move to the uni town, sign up for the
course as an extramural student (this means that you pay your own tuition
but don't enroll as an undergraduate degree student), and earn an A+ in
first quarter/semester,

5. even better, see if you can sign up to take the Putnam exam (a national
talent-search exam in math),

6. apply to enter the graduate program at your uni the next Fall, paying
particular attention to your application essay (explain clearly why you
believe you can make your background work to your advantage in their
program); be sure ask your prof. in the course to write a -blind- letter
of recommendation for your application (the department will probably want
numerous letters and such like, but most of these requirements can be
waived, especially if you have a faculty member backing your application),

7. if successful, you would probably receive a tuition waiver, a generous
stipend for first year, and you would be allowed (even required) to spend
your first year acing the UG courses which will prepare you for first year
graduate school; if not, repeat steps 4--6 as often as neccessary,

8. do well in the first year, do well in the second year (taking the
standard first year graduate courses), pass the first hurdles (written
exams, language exam), and you are on your way!

The point is, this route would enable you to entirely -skip over- the time
and expense of a second UG education. Most faculty will immediately
appreciate that this is superfluous in a case like yours (life experience
and all that). Even if it didn't work out, you would have not suffered a
huge financial hit as a penalty for even making the attempt.

If this plan seems discouraging, complicated and circuitous, well, I would
respond that -research- is discouraging, complicated and circuitous! In
fact, if you are rebuffed the first time around you apply to a graduate
program, if I were you I'd make precisely this point in your application
essay the second time around: "I have taken an inventive approach, I've
modified my approach in reaction to an initial setback, and as you can see
I'm not giving up". I have no doubt they will take the point: initiative,
adapatibility, and sheer stubbornness are all essential character virtues
in this game.

I don't know if you could try something analogous with physics substituted
for applied math above, but I suspect you that could. If not, if you are
dead set upon physics at all costs, if you got into a math program and had
a good first year, you could very likely transfer to the physics program
of UCLA or whatever after a year of math, as long as you can somehow
demonstrate a mastery of enough UG level physics. And a year of math
certainly never hurt any physics student!

A third option: have you thought about pursuing a career as a historian of
physics? You already have the historical background; the math/physics
background is IMO far more important (and far harder to acquire, to judge
from the work of most practitioners in this field). Are you are good at
documenting your programs? A clear and fluent writer in natural language?
If so, if you got into a degree program in The History of Science (they
are not easy to find, but they do exist), you might well find you have a
-better- background (programming) than your peers. If this sounds
intriguing, do some web surfing, and read some books by west coast
practitioners.

Hmm... I've been awaiting the opportunity to go off on another rampage
with the theme "all history is a lie", but I see that this is not the
moment to do this :-/

> 3. How hard would it be for me to re-enter

[snip]

> compared to someone fresh from highschool?

I can think of "reentering students" who initially expressed a similar
fear. One of them was clearly excelling after only a few weeks.

I doubt that your chances of success at jumping into a graduate program
(after taking and excelling in a few courses in the department of interest
as an extramural student, doing very well on a talent search exam, or some
other way to make your mark) are affected by your level of preparation as
much as by your determination and talent. Irrespective of preparation, I
think character virtues plus talent are invaluable.

> 2. I need to brush up on my rust-encrusted math skills. What areas of
> math should I work on BEFORE re-entering university, and up to what
> level? What other academic areas should I prepare myself on?

Well, for either applied math or physics you will certainly need a strong
background in differential equations and real and complex analysis. For
this you need a strong background in "abstract linear algebra" (vector
spaces and linear operators, not just matrices) and "advanced calculus".

To get some idea, and also for (3) above), I'd recommend you look at
standard advanced UG textbooks such as

author = {Mary L. Boas},
title = {Mathematical Methods in the Physical Sciences},
publisher = {Wiley},
year = 1982}

This is very clear, with good problems and solutions, so very well suited
for self-study. Mastering the subject matter in this one book would
probably take you a long way! If this seems too hard at first glance, the
Schaum Outline series has some excellent problem books on differential
equations and linear algebra which are old but (usually) not so old that
they use hopelessly outdated terminology.

OTH, IMO Dover books are generally to be avoided, with a handful of
exceptions, since these are often so old (typically, reprints of books
first published around 1930-1950) that their terminology/focus will only
mislead you about what you'll encounter in a contemporary classroom. To
forestall people who complain whenever I say this, it is true that one of
the very best Dover books in the area of PDEs was first published in the
19th century, and is still one of the best introductions to the material
it covers, and there are other counterexamples to my claim that most Dover
books are not good first books for a contemporary student. But as I see
it, right now you want books which will quickly prepare you to fit right
into an early 21st century classroom.

Good luck!

"T. Essel" (hiding somewhere in cyberspace)

grelbr

Jul9-04, 04:49 AM

<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','toolbar=no, location=no,scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no ,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usenet ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>\nWishfulThinker <tony_external@bluetentacle.com> wrote in message news:<40eaf3be\\$1@news.sentex.net>...\n[snip]\n> have been working as a\n> software developer.\n[snip]\n> contemplating the possibility of getting back to school as a Physics\n> undergrad, with the goal of eventually engaging in nuclear energy\n> research. I just turned 27.\n\nActually, there is a possibility you might consider. Just hunt\nfor jobs in the nuclear field as a software developer. Pick\nup some of the physics as on-the-job. Depends on what aspect\nof nuke you want to work on.\n\n> 1. Am I nuts? Have you ever heard of such a thing?\n\nSure. Lots of people make bigger jumps than that and wind up\nmaking major contributions. I am reminded of a mule team driver\nwho wound up doing some very good work in cosmology. (At least\naccording to Carl Sagan\'s _Cosmos_.)\n\n> 2. I need to brush up on my rust-encrusted math skills. What areas of\n> math should I work on BEFORE re-entering university, and up to what\n> level? What other academic areas should I prepare myself on?\n\nThe hardest thing starting an undergrad physics program for most\npeople is the math. You should have at least a solid equivalent\nfor the most advanced math offered in a good highschool. Calculus,\nalgebra, functions and relations, geometry, all at least to the\nend of highschool level. If math is your friend, you will fit right\nin. If math is painful for you, you may not be making a good choice.\n\nIt would not hurt to do a quick review of the physics taught\nin the final year of highschool. But don\'t brood over it, as you\nwill move past that very quickly. Say two days of review.\nSee if you can get whatever text the senior highschool students\nare using these days and power read it.\n\n> 3. How hard would it be for me to re-enter as a Physics undergrad,\n> compared to someone fresh from highschool?\n\nAsk the registrar of any schools you are interested in. It will be\nvery different school-to-school. You should be able to get contact\ninfo for most of them off the web, search at www.google.com.\n\nAsk as soon as possible. They may already have filled many of their\nfall spaces. You might wind up getting a spot that was offered to\na student that turned it down to go to another school.\n\nThere\'s a good chance that any given school is holding some spaces\nfor special cases of various kinds. Many schools don\'t want to have\nendless rows of identical braniacs. They may have some places held\nfor older students, or students with something special to offer.\n\nSome schools will interview possible special students, so you\nshould think about how you are going to offer something special\nto the school. Just as a hint, being a software developer for\nactual money might be a big plus. You could offer to tutor some\nof the computer classes. It *might* even get you a pass on\nsome classes that the other physics undergrads have to take.\nSo, while your classmates are taking Java (or whatever) you\ncould be getting paid to assist the prof in that class, and\nbe getting credit as having completed the course.\n\n> 4. Which undergraduate schools do you recommend, and which graduate\n> schools? I prefer good quality public universities. My previous\n> stint was at UCLA.\n\nUCLA is a good school. As far as other schools: See if you can find\nwhere the graduates from those schools wound up after graduating.\nSee if those kinds of placements appeal to you. If college X is\nsending all their grads to place Y, and you want to go to Y, then\ncollege X is for you.\n\nIf you intend to go on to graduate work, MSc, PhD, that kind of\nthing, you have lots of time to decide that. Then you really\nwant to think about who might be your graduate advisor. Round\nabout the start of 3rd year undergrad, start really hunting\nfor papers and proceedings that interest you, and see where\nthe authors of those papers are from. And, of course, redo your\nsearch on where grads wind up.\n\n> 5. Any other advice is greatly appreciated.\n\nBe prepared to be fairly dedicated. You are going to have to spend\npretty much a full work-week doing homework outside of class or lab\nhours. Labs may eat a lot of time also, especially in senior years.\nYou should pretty much count on not having much time for anything\nother than school.\ngrelbr\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form">  View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky>WishfulThinker <tony_external@bluetentacle.com> wrote in message news:<40eaf3be$1@news.sentex.net>...
[snip]
> have been working as a
> software developer.
[snip]
> contemplating the possibility of getting back to school as a Physics
> undergrad, with the goal of eventually engaging in nuclear energy
> research. I just turned 27.

Actually, there is a possibility you might consider. Just hunt
for jobs in the nuclear field as a software developer. Pick
up some of the physics as on-the-job. Depends on what aspect
of nuke you want to work on.

> 1. Am I nuts? Have you ever heard of such a thing?

Sure. Lots of people make bigger jumps than that and wind up
making major contributions. I am reminded of a mule team driver
who wound up doing some very good work in cosmology. (At least
according to Carl Sagan's _Cosmos_.)

> 2. I need to brush up on my rust-encrusted math skills. What areas of
> math should I work on BEFORE re-entering university, and up to what
> level? What other academic areas should I prepare myself on?

The hardest thing starting an undergrad physics program for most
people is the math. You should have at least a solid equivalent
for the most advanced math offered in a good highschool. Calculus,
algebra, functions and relations, geometry, all at least to the
end of highschool level. If math is your friend, you will fit right
in. If math is painful for you, you may not be making a good choice.

It would not hurt to do a quick review of the physics taught
in the final year of highschool. But don't brood over it, as you
will move past that very quickly. Say two days of review.
See if you can get whatever text the senior highschool students
are using these days and power read it.

> 3. How hard would it be for me to re-enter as a Physics undergrad,
> compared to someone fresh from highschool?

Ask the registrar of any schools you are interested in. It will be
very different school-to-school. You should be able to get contact
info for most of them off the web, search at www.google.com.

Ask as soon as possible. They may already have filled many of their
fall spaces. You might wind up getting a spot that was offered to
a student that turned it down to go to another school.

There's a good chance that any given school is holding some spaces
for special cases of various kinds. Many schools don't want to have
endless rows of identical braniacs. They may have some places held
for older students, or students with something special to offer.

Some schools will interview possible special students, so you
should think about how you are going to offer something special
to the school. Just as a hint, being a software developer for
actual money might be a big plus. You could offer to tutor some
of the computer classes. It *might* even get you a pass on
some classes that the other physics undergrads have to take.
So, while your classmates are taking Java (or whatever) you
could be getting paid to assist the prof in that class, and
be getting credit as having completed the course.

> 4. Which undergraduate schools do you recommend, and which graduate
> schools? I prefer good quality public universities. My previous
> stint was at UCLA.

UCLA is a good school. As far as other schools: See if you can find
where the graduates from those schools wound up after graduating.
See if those kinds of placements appeal to you. If college X is
sending all their grads to place Y, and you want to go to Y, then
college X is for you.

If you intend to go on to graduate work, MSc, PhD, that kind of
thing, you have lots of time to decide that. Then you really
want to think about who might be your graduate advisor. Round
about the start of 3rd year undergrad, start really hunting
for papers and proceedings that interest you, and see where
the authors of those papers are from. And, of course, redo your
search on where grads wind up.

> 5. Any other advice is greatly appreciated.

Be prepared to be fairly dedicated. You are going to have to spend
pretty much a full work-week doing homework outside of class or lab
hours. Labs may eat a lot of time also, especially in senior years.
You should pretty much count on not having much time for anything
other than school.
grelbr

John T Lowry

Jul9-04, 04:49 AM

<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','toolbar=no, location=no,scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no ,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usenet ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>\n"WishfulThinker" <tony_external@bluetentacle.com> wrote in message\nnews:40eaf3be\\$1@news.sentex.net...\n>\n > Greetings,\n>\n> I obtained a BS in History four years ago and have been working as a\n> software developer. I have always felt under-challenged by my current\n> work, however, and for a long time have been feeling the urge to do\n> something more important for humanity. Recently I have been\n> contemplating the possibility of getting back to school as a Physics\n> undergrad, with the goal of eventually engaging in nuclear energy\n> research. I just turned 27.\n>\n> I have the following questions for the good people of this board:\n>\n> 1. Am I nuts? Have you ever heard of such a thing?\n> 2. I need to brush up on my rust-encrusted math skills. What areas of\n> math should I work on BEFORE re-entering university, and up to what\n> level? What other academic areas should I prepare myself on?\n> 3. How hard would it be for me to re-enter as a Physics undergrad,\n> compared to someone fresh from highschool?\n> 4. Which undergraduate schools do you recommend, and which graduate\n> schools? I prefer good quality public universities. My previous\n> stint was at UCLA.\n> 5. Any other advice is greatly appreciated.\n>\n> Thank you in advance.\n\nI second FrediFixxz\'s advice and counsel. I graduated with a no-major\nliberal arts degree at 19, went to medical school for a year, then\ngenetics and English for a year, then biophysics for 2 years, then\nteaching and Navy, finally back to grad school in physics at age 31, 35\nwhen got doctorate. I\'m retired now, but still learning more about\nquantum theory of measurement and other good stuff (my field was\nirreversible quantum statistical mechanics, plus, much later on,\naircraft performance prediction). On the linear algebra, try to get both\nthe geometric and algebraic points of view. Physics is where it\'s at!\nThe modern version of "natural philosophy."\n\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form">  View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky>"WishfulThinker" <tony_external@bluetentacle.com> wrote in message
news:40eaf3be$1@news.sentex.net...
>
> Greetings,
>
> I obtained a BS in History four years ago and have been working as a
> software developer. I have always felt under-challenged by my current
> work, however, and for a long time have been feeling the urge to do
> something more important for humanity. Recently I have been
> contemplating the possibility of getting back to school as a Physics
> undergrad, with the goal of eventually engaging in nuclear energy
> research. I just turned 27.
>
> I have the following questions for the good people of this board:
>
> 1. Am I nuts? Have you ever heard of such a thing?
> 2. I need to brush up on my rust-encrusted math skills. What areas of
> math should I work on BEFORE re-entering university, and up to what
> level? What other academic areas should I prepare myself on?
> 3. How hard would it be for me to re-enter as a Physics undergrad,
> compared to someone fresh from highschool?
> 4. Which undergraduate schools do you recommend, and which graduate
> schools? I prefer good quality public universities. My previous
> stint was at UCLA.
> 5. Any other advice is greatly appreciated.
>
> Thank you in advance.

I second FrediFixxz's advice and counsel. I graduated with a no-major
liberal arts degree at 19, went to medical school for a year, then
genetics and English for a year, then biophysics for 2 years, then
teaching and Navy, finally back to grad school in physics at age 31, 35
when got doctorate. I'm retired now, but still learning more about
quantum theory of measurement and other good stuff (my field was
irreversible quantum statistical mechanics, plus, much later on,
aircraft performance prediction). On the linear algebra, try to get both
the geometric and algebraic points of view. Physics is where it's at!
The modern version of "natural philosophy."

Moataz H. Emam

Jul15-04, 03:23 PM

<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','toolbar=no, location=no,scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no ,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usenet ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>\nWishfulThinker wrote:\n>\n> Greetings,\n>\n> I obtained a BS in History four years ago and have been working as a\n> software developer. I have always felt under-challenged by my current\n> work, however, and for a long time have been feeling the urge to do\n> something more important for humanity. Recently I have been\n> contemplating the possibility of getting back to school as a Physics\n> undergrad, with the goal of eventually engaging in nuclear energy\n> research. I just turned 27.\n>\n> I have the following questions for the good people of this board:\n>\n> 1. Am I nuts? Have you ever heard of such a thing?\n> 2. I need to brush up on my rust-encrusted math skills. What areas of\n> math should I work on BEFORE re-entering university, and up to what\n> level? What other academic areas should I prepare myself on?\n> 3. How hard would it be for me to re-enter as a Physics undergrad,\n> compared to someone fresh from highschool?\n> 4. Which undergraduate schools do you recommend, and which graduate\n> schools? I prefer good quality public universities. My previous\n> stint was at UCLA.\n> 5. Any other advice is greatly appreciated.\n>\n> Thank you in advance.\n\nYou are not nuts. If you are, so was I twelve years ago. I graduated as\na civil engineer in a five year system in 89. Some years later, I went\nback as an undergrad in Physics. Now, I have a Master\'s and a PhD in\ntheoretical physics and working in academia. Today my only regret is\nthat I didn\'t do that earlier. I am now 37 and have just acquired my\nPhD.\n\nYou must follow your dreams and do what you feel is right for you. It is\nhowever important to consider the financial part of your decision. In my\ncountry state college education is almost free, so I could afford to go\nback to school and work at the same time with little financial hardship\n(tuition and fees for a four year college average about \\$60 a year!!).\nIn the US this is not the case, so you would want to consider your\ndecision carefully.\n\nIf you decide to go ahead, perhaps you should choose the college you\nwant to get into and invest some time in talking to physics professors\nabout how much math you need to do before taking courses for credit.\n\nNowadays there is so much free material available online which you may\nuse to brush up on your mathematical abilities. I suggest you make full\nuse of those too, in addition to any preparation courses you might take\nfor credit.\n\nYou may email me privately if you think I can be of further advice.\n\n--\nMoataz H. Emam\n\nVisiting Assistant Professor of Physics and Mathematics\nMount Holyoke College\n========================================= ===============\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form">  View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky>WishfulThinker wrote:
>
> Greetings,
>
> I obtained a BS in History four years ago and have been working as a
> software developer. I have always felt under-challenged by my current
> work, however, and for a long time have been feeling the urge to do
> something more important for humanity. Recently I have been
> contemplating the possibility of getting back to school as a Physics
> undergrad, with the goal of eventually engaging in nuclear energy
> research. I just turned 27.
>
> I have the following questions for the good people of this board:
>
> 1. Am I nuts? Have you ever heard of such a thing?
> 2. I need to brush up on my rust-encrusted math skills. What areas of
> math should I work on BEFORE re-entering university, and up to what
> level? What other academic areas should I prepare myself on?
> 3. How hard would it be for me to re-enter as a Physics undergrad,
> compared to someone fresh from highschool?
> 4. Which undergraduate schools do you recommend, and which graduate
> schools? I prefer good quality public universities. My previous
> stint was at UCLA.
> 5. Any other advice is greatly appreciated.
>
> Thank you in advance.

You are not nuts. If you are, so was I twelve years ago. I graduated as
a civil engineer in a five year system in 89. Some years later, I went
back as an undergrad in Physics. Now, I have a Master's and a PhD in
theoretical physics and working in academia. Today my only regret is
that I didn't do that earlier. I am now 37 and have just acquired my
PhD.

You must follow your dreams and do what you feel is right for you. It is
however important to consider the financial part of your decision. In my
country state college education is almost free, so I could afford to go
back to school and work at the same time with little financial hardship
(tuition and fees for a four year college average about $60 a year!!).
In the US this is not the case, so you would want to consider your
decision carefully.

If you decide to go ahead, perhaps you should choose the college you
want to get into and invest some time in talking to physics professors
about how much math you need to do before taking courses for credit.

Nowadays there is so much free material available online which you may
use to brush up on your mathematical abilities. I suggest you make full
use of those too, in addition to any preparation courses you might take
for credit.

You may email me privately if you think I can be of further advice.

--
Moataz H. Emam

Visiting Assistant Professor of Physics and Mathematics
Mount Holyoke College
================================================== ======