View Full Version : Penrose's critique of string theory
<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','toolbar=no, location=no,scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no ,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usenet ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>Roger Penrose offered a lecture on string theory title "Fashion,\nFaith, and Fantasy in Theoretical Physics".\n\nI have not heard his lecture, nor am i acquainted with his latest\nwork, Road to Reality: A Complete Guide to the Physical Universe by\nRoger Penrose, which apparently is not yet available in the US, but he\napparently is critical of string theory, and prefers loop quantum\ngravity.\n\npolemic aside, what are his criticisms of string theory, how has\nstring theorists responded, including edward witten and lubos molt,\nand why does he think LQG is preferable?\n\nFASHION, FAITH AND FANTASY IN THEORETICAL PHYSICS\n\nand it is at the Dublin concert hall at 8PM on Friday 23 July\n\nString theory has had a kind of tulip-mania fad or craze and now seems\nto be in decline. But it is also a kind of religious faith for some of\nthose who have invested a lot of effort in understanding it.\n\nso there are some diehard believers who will give you elaborate\nspecious arguments why it is impossible that any of the newer\napproaches to quantizing gravity can work\n\nand it lives in a kind of fantasy realm, making no testable\npredictions and ungoverned by experimental evidence, so the\nresearchers indulge in untrammelled mathematical inventiveness\n\nfinally such an embarrassing richness of possibilities has emerged\nthat the distinct variations of the theory have been estimated by its\ninsiders (Susskind, Douglas) at ten-to-the-100 different base states\nand things like the Anthropic Principle, a latterday Hand of God, are\nbeing invoked in a desperate effort to find the right one.\nSo it has gotten bogged down in its own fecundity.\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form"> View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky>Roger Penrose offered a lecture on string theory title "Fashion,
Faith, and Fantasy in Theoretical Physics".
I have not heard his lecture, nor am i acquainted with his latest
work, Road to Reality: A Complete Guide to the Physical Universe by
Roger Penrose, which apparently is not yet available in the US, but he
apparently is critical of string theory, and prefers loop quantum
gravity.
polemic aside, what are his criticisms of string theory, how has
string theorists responded, including edward witten and lubos molt,
and why does he think LQG is preferable?
FASHION, FAITH AND FANTASY IN THEORETICAL PHYSICS
and it is at the Dublin concert hall at 8PM on Friday 23 July
String theory has had a kind of tulip-mania fad or craze and now seems
to be in decline. But it is also a kind of religious faith for some of
those who have invested a lot of effort in understanding it.
so there are some diehard believers who will give you elaborate
specious arguments why it is impossible that any of the newer
approaches to quantizing gravity can work
and it lives in a kind of fantasy realm, making no testable
predictions and ungoverned by experimental evidence, so the
researchers indulge in untrammelled mathematical inventiveness
finally such an embarrassing richness of possibilities has emerged
that the distinct variations of the theory have been estimated by its
insiders (Susskind, Douglas) at ten-to-the-100 different base states
and things like the Anthropic Principle, a latterday Hand of God, are
being invoked in a desperate effort to find the right one.
So it has gotten bogged down in its own fecundity.
Malcolm
Aug12-04, 08:30 AM
<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','toolbar=no, location=no,scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no ,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usenet ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>\n\n\n\nI bought it from www.amazon.co.uk, with 30% off the cover price. It\narrived in a couple of days. I\'m in the UK, which helps, but I think\nyou should be OK to buy it from the US. (You could also try other UK\nstores like Blackwells, W.H. Smith...) I\'m up to chapter 3 and its\nvery good so far! I think I now know what he means by platonic forms\nas they relate to mathematical objects (never in this lifetime, I\nthought :-)\n\nLooking briefly ahead I think he prefers twistors, but covers loop\nquantum gravity, strings, and the whole mixed bowl of pasta. It\'s over\n1000 pages long, and he goes quite quickly without wasting many words.\n\nI would not attempt a summary of Penrose\'s views until I have finished\nthe book (maybe by Xmas, though reading the book makes me think that\nXmas is here, how can one guy be such a good writer, drawer and\nmathematician?)\n\nA brief scan indicates that you should find a lot on the things you\nare interested in. Go on, the British economy needs the money :-)\n\n- Mal\n\nDaniel <ensabah6@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<410ba98b\\$1@news.sentex.net>...\n> Roger Penrose offered a lecture on string theory title "Fashion,\n> Faith, and Fantasy in Theoretical Physics".\n>\n> I have not heard his lecture, nor am i acquainted with his latest\n> work, Road to Reality: A Complete Guide to the Physical Universe by\n> Roger Penrose, which apparently is not yet available in the US, but he\n> apparently is critical of string theory, and prefers loop quantum\n> gravity.\n>\n> polemic aside, what are his criticisms of string theory, how has\n> string theorists responded, including edward witten and lubos molt,\n> and why does he think LQG is preferable?\n>\n> FASHION, FAITH AND FANTASY IN THEORETICAL PHYSICS\n>\n> and it is at the Dublin concert hall at 8PM on Friday 23 July\n>\n> String theory has had a kind of tulip-mania fad or craze and now seems\n> to be in decline. But it is also a kind of religious faith for some of\n> those who have invested a lot of effort in understanding it.\n>\n> so there are some diehard believers who will give you elaborate\n> specious arguments why it is impossible that any of the newer\n> approaches to quantizing gravity can work\n>\n> and it lives in a kind of fantasy realm, making no testable\n> predictions and ungoverned by experimental evidence, so the\n> researchers indulge in untrammelled mathematical inventiveness\n>\n> finally such an embarrassing richness of possibilities has emerged\n> that the distinct variations of the theory have been estimated by its\n> insiders (Susskind, Douglas) at ten-to-the-100 different base states\n> and things like the Anthropic Principle, a latterday Hand of God, are\n> being invoked in a desperate effort to find the right one.\n> So it has gotten bogged down in its own fecundity.\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form"> View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky>I bought it from www.amazon.co.uk, with 30% off the cover price. It
arrived in a couple of days. I'm in the UK, which helps, but I think
you should be OK to buy it from the US. (You could also try other UK
stores like Blackwells, W.H. Smith...) I'm up to chapter 3 and its
very good so far! I think I now know what he means by platonic forms
as they relate to mathematical objects (never in this lifetime, I
thought :-)
Looking briefly ahead I think he prefers twistors, but covers loop
quantum gravity, strings, and the whole mixed bowl of pasta. It's over
1000 pages long, and he goes quite quickly without wasting many words.
I would not attempt a summary of Penrose's views until I have finished
the book (maybe by Xmas, though reading the book makes me think that
Xmas is here, how can one guy be such a good writer, drawer and
mathematician?)
A brief scan indicates that you should find a lot on the things you
are interested in. Go on, the British economy needs the money :-)
- Mal
Daniel <ensabah6@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<410ba98b$1@news.sentex.net>...
> Roger Penrose offered a lecture on string theory title "Fashion,
> Faith, and Fantasy in Theoretical Physics".
>
> I have not heard his lecture, nor am i acquainted with his latest
> work, Road to Reality: A Complete Guide to the Physical Universe by
> Roger Penrose, which apparently is not yet available in the US, but he
> apparently is critical of string theory, and prefers loop quantum
> gravity.
>
> polemic aside, what are his criticisms of string theory, how has
> string theorists responded, including edward witten and lubos molt,
> and why does he think LQG is preferable?
>
> FASHION, FAITH AND FANTASY IN THEORETICAL PHYSICS
>
> and it is at the Dublin concert hall at 8PM on Friday 23 July
>
> String theory has had a kind of tulip-mania fad or craze and now seems
> to be in decline. But it is also a kind of religious faith for some of
> those who have invested a lot of effort in understanding it.
>
> so there are some diehard believers who will give you elaborate
> specious arguments why it is impossible that any of the newer
> approaches to quantizing gravity can work
>
> and it lives in a kind of fantasy realm, making no testable
> predictions and ungoverned by experimental evidence, so the
> researchers indulge in untrammelled mathematical inventiveness
>
> finally such an embarrassing richness of possibilities has emerged
> that the distinct variations of the theory have been estimated by its
> insiders (Susskind, Douglas) at ten-to-the-100 different base states
> and things like the Anthropic Principle, a latterday Hand of God, are
> being invoked in a desperate effort to find the right one.
> So it has gotten bogged down in its own fecundity.
greywolf42
Aug12-04, 08:31 AM
<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','toolbar=no, location=no,scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no ,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usenet ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>\n\nDaniel <ensabah6@yahoo.com> wrote in message\nnews:410ba98b\\$1@news.sentex.net...\n> Roger Penrose offered a lecture on string theory title "Fashion,\n> Faith, and Fantasy in Theoretical Physics".\n>\n> I have not heard his lecture, nor am i acquainted with his latest\n> work, Road to Reality: A Complete Guide to the Physical Universe by\n> Roger Penrose, which apparently is not yet available in the US, but he\n> apparently is critical of string theory, and prefers loop quantum\n> gravity.\n>\n> polemic aside, what are his criticisms of string theory, how has\n> string theorists responded, including edward witten and lubos molt,\n> and why does he think LQG is preferable?\n>\n> FASHION, FAITH AND FANTASY IN THEORETICAL PHYSICS\n>\n> and it is at the Dublin concert hall at 8PM on Friday 23 July\n\nFor those who weren\'t in Dublin in July, you can find a three-part\ninstallment of Penrose\'s lecture available on the web at:\n\nhttp://www.princeton.edu/WebMedia/lectures/\n\n"Fashion, Faith and Fantasy in the New Physics of the Universe"\n\nI suspect Pentrose won\'t have changed much content, since October 2003.\n\n{snip}\n\n--\ngreywolf42\nubi dubium ibi libertas\n{remove planet for return e-mail}\n\n\n\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form"> View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky>Daniel <ensabah6@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:410ba98b$1@news.sentex.net...
> Roger Penrose offered a lecture on string theory title "Fashion,
> Faith, and Fantasy in Theoretical Physics".
>
> I have not heard his lecture, nor am i acquainted with his latest
> work, Road to Reality: A Complete Guide to the Physical Universe by
> Roger Penrose, which apparently is not yet available in the US, but he
> apparently is critical of string theory, and prefers loop quantum
> gravity.
>
> polemic aside, what are his criticisms of string theory, how has
> string theorists responded, including edward witten and lubos molt,
> and why does he think LQG is preferable?
>
> FASHION, FAITH AND FANTASY IN THEORETICAL PHYSICS
>
> and it is at the Dublin concert hall at 8PM on Friday 23 July
For those who weren't in Dublin in July, you can find a three-part
installment of Penrose's lecture available on the web at:
http://www.princeton.edu/WebMedia/lectures/
"Fashion, Faith and Fantasy in the New Physics of the Universe"
I suspect Pentrose won't have changed much content, since October 2003.
{snip}
--
greywolf42
ubi dubium ibi libertas
{remove planet for return e-mail}
davidoff404
Aug12-04, 08:31 AM
<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','toolbar=no, location=no,scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no ,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usenet ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>\n\n\n\nDaniel wrote:\n> Roger Penrose offered a lecture on string theory title "Fashion,\n> Faith, and Fantasy in Theoretical Physics".\n>\n> I have not heard his lecture, nor am i acquainted with his latest\n> work, Road to Reality: A Complete Guide to the Physical Universe by\n> Roger Penrose, which apparently is not yet available in the US, but he\n> apparently is critical of string theory, and prefers loop quantum\n> gravity.\n\n<snip>\n\nPenrose\'s lecture was in the RDS on Friday 23rd July and was a condensed\nversion of a series of three lectures he\'s been giving for a while. A\nstreaming video copy of the lectures he gave at Princeton earlier this\nyear are available online at the following link:\n\nhttp://www.princeton.edu/WebMedia/lectures/\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form"> View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky>Daniel wrote:
> Roger Penrose offered a lecture on string theory title "Fashion,
> Faith, and Fantasy in Theoretical Physics".
>
> I have not heard his lecture, nor am i acquainted with his latest
> work, Road to Reality: A Complete Guide to the Physical Universe by
> Roger Penrose, which apparently is not yet available in the US, but he
> apparently is critical of string theory, and prefers loop quantum
> gravity.
<snip>
Penrose's lecture was in the RDS on Friday 23rd July and was a condensed
version of a series of three lectures he's been giving for a while. A
streaming video copy of the lectures he gave at Princeton earlier this
year are available online at the following link:
http://www.princeton.edu/WebMedia/lectures/
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