[SOLVED] If so why ? [Archive]

Spud

Aug7-04, 05:07 PM

<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','toolbar=no, location=no,scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no ,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usenet ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>Can any of the following statments be discounted -\n\n1. The universe is accelerating into another "higher" dimension.\n\n2. Mass in the universe is decreasing in size exponentially.\n\n3. The speed of a photon is relative.\n\n4. A photon has the ability to accelerate.\n\nSpud\n\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form">  View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky>Can any of the following statments be discounted -

1. The universe is accelerating into another "higher" dimension.

2. Mass in the universe is decreasing in size exponentially.

3. The speed of a photon is relative.

4. A photon has the ability to accelerate.

Spud

HallsofIvy

Aug12-04, 08:29 AM

I agree with mathman in general but there is certainly strong experimental evidence that your
2) mass in the universe is decreasing exponentially,
3) The speed of a photon is relative, and
4) A photon has the ability to accelerate

are false.

1) The universe is accelerating into another "higher" dimension.
doesn't mean anything until you explain what you mean by "higher" dimension.

mathman

Aug12-04, 08:29 AM

Physics is ultimately a science, that is based on observation. There is no evidence that any of your assertions are valid. In order for these assertions to have any meaning, you should devise some experiment which could indicate whether or not any can be demonstrated.

tessel@tum.bot

Aug12-04, 08:29 AM

<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','toolbar=no, location=no,scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no ,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usenet ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>On Sat, 7 Aug 2004, Spud wrote:\n\n> Can any of the following statments be discounted -\n>\n> 1. The universe is accelerating into another "higher" dimension.\n>\n> 2. Mass in the universe is decreasing in size exponentially.\n>\n> 3. The speed of a photon is relative.\n>\n> 4. A photon has the ability to accelerate.\n\nUnfortunately, it turns out that without getting mathematically precise,\nnone of these terms really make sense in the context of cosmology:\naccelerate, mass, size, speed, relative. Cosmologists do use them all the\ntime, but they usually mean something more subtle than one can briefly\nexplain without considerable mathematical background. To get some idea\nwhy this is the case, you might try the last chapter of this undergraduate\nlevel textbook:\n\nauthor = {Ray D\'Inverno},\ntitle = {Introducing {E}instein\'s Relativity},\npublisher = {Clarendon Press},\nyear = 1995}\n\nHTH,\n\n"T. Essel" (hiding somewhere in cyberspace)\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form">  View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky>On Sat, 7 Aug 2004, Spud wrote:

> Can any of the following statments be discounted -
>
> 1. The universe is accelerating into another "higher" dimension.
>
> 2. Mass in the universe is decreasing in size exponentially.
>
> 3. The speed of a photon is relative.
>
> 4. A photon has the ability to accelerate.

Unfortunately, it turns out that without getting mathematically precise,
none of these terms really make sense in the context of cosmology:
accelerate, mass, size, speed, relative. Cosmologists do use them all the
time, but they usually mean something more subtle than one can briefly
explain without considerable mathematical background. To get some idea
why this is the case, you might try the last chapter of this undergraduate
level textbook:

author = {Ray D'Inverno},
title = {Introducing {E}instein's Relativity},
publisher = {Clarendon Press},
year = 1995}

HTH,

"T. Essel" (hiding somewhere in cyberspace)

Frank Hellmann

Aug12-04, 08:29 AM

<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','toolbar=no, location=no,scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no ,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usenet ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>\n\n\n\nomeganumber@yahoo.co.uk (Spud) wrote in message news:<97a68d4.0408061405.53cb0f84@posting.google.c om>...\n> Can any of the following statments be discounted -\n>\n> 1. The universe is accelerating into another "higher" dimension.\n>\n> 2. Mass in the universe is decreasing in size exponentially.\n>\n\nI\'ll leave that to the astronomers.\n\n> 3. The speed of a photon is relative.\n>\n> 4. A photon has the ability to accelerate.\n>\n\nsee:\nMichelson, A. A. and Morley, E. W. "On the Relative Motion of the\nEarth and the Luminiferous Ether." Amer. J. Sci. 34, 333-345, 1887.\n\nand\n\nMichelson, A. A. and Morley, E. W. "On the Relative Motion of the\nEarth and the Luminiferous Aether." Philos. Mag. 24, 449-463, 1887.\n\nand the excellent theoretical analysis:\n\nEinstein A. "Zur Elektrodynamik bewegter Körper" in Annalen der\nPhysik. 17:891, 1905.\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form">  View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky>omeganumber@yahoo.co.uk (Spud) wrote in message news:<97a68d4.0408061405.53cb0f84@posting.google.com>...
> Can any of the following statments be discounted -
>
> 1. The universe is accelerating into another "higher" dimension.
>
> 2. Mass in the universe is decreasing in size exponentially.
>

I'll leave that to the astronomers.

> 3. The speed of a photon is relative.
>
> 4. A photon has the ability to accelerate.
>

see:
Michelson, A. A. and Morley, E. W. "On the Relative Motion of the
Earth and the Luminiferous Ether." Amer. J. Sci. 34, 333-345, 1887.

and

Michelson, A. A. and Morley, E. W. "On the Relative Motion of the
Earth and the Luminiferous Aether." Philos. Mag. 24, 449-463, 1887.

and the excellent theoretical analysis:

Einstein A. "Zur Elektrodynamik bewegter Körper" in Annalen der
Physik. 17:891, 1905.

Mark Palenik

Aug12-04, 08:30 AM

<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','toolbar=no, location=no,scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no ,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usenet ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>\n"Spud" <omeganumber@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message\nnews:97a68d4.0408061405.53cb0f84@posting. google.com...\n> Can any of the following statments be discounted -\n>\n> 1. The universe is accelerating into another "higher" dimension.\n\nI\'m not sure what this means, exactly. Do you mean that the entire universe\nis moving increasingly quickly in some direction that we don\'t know about?\nIf it is, I don\'t see how we would be able to tell.\n\nIf you\'re asking whether or not the universe contains some unseen dimension,\nwhich is growing continually larger, then I would have to say, it doesn\'t\nseem to.\n\n>\n> 2. Mass in the universe is decreasing in size exponentially.\n\nProbably - if you mean this in the sense that it would explain the expansion\nof the universe. Since the distance between bodies within a galaxy doesn\'t\nchange as the universe expands because of gravitational forces, this can\'t\nexplain why galaxies seem to flying away from eachother. If the universe\nappearing to expand were really a symptom of everything shrinking, we\'d see\nthe expansion of space within galaxies, solar systems, etc. - which we\ndon\'t.\n\nIf you mean it in the sense "can we ever really know that sum unphysical\nforce is causing everything to shrink, make the universe appear as if\neverything weren\'t really shrinking", then I guess not, but that\'s not\nreally important..\n\n>\n> 3. The speed of a photon is relative.\n\nYes, that can be empirically discounted.\n\n>\n> 4. A photon has the ability to accelerate.\n\nIt\'s velocity can change if you mean that it\'s direction can change or that\nthe speed of light is different through different media.\n\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form">  View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky>"Spud" <omeganumber@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:97a68d4.0408061405.53cb0f84@posting.google.co m...
> Can any of the following statments be discounted -
>
> 1. The universe is accelerating into another "higher" dimension.

I'm not sure what this means, exactly. Do you mean that the entire universe
is moving increasingly quickly in some direction that we don't know about?
If it is, I don't see how we would be able to tell.

If you're asking whether or not the universe contains some unseen dimension,
which is growing continually larger, then I would have to say, it doesn't
seem to.

>
> 2. Mass in the universe is decreasing in size exponentially.

Probably - if you mean this in the sense that it would explain the expansion
of the universe. Since the distance between bodies within a galaxy doesn't
change as the universe expands because of gravitational forces, this can't
explain why galaxies seem to flying away from eachother. If the universe
appearing to expand were really a symptom of everything shrinking, we'd see
the expansion of space within galaxies, solar systems, etc. - which we
don't.

If you mean it in the sense "can we ever really know that sum unphysical
force is causing everything to shrink, make the universe appear as if
everything weren't really shrinking", then I guess not, but that's not
really important..

>
> 3. The speed of a photon is relative.

Yes, that can be empirically discounted.

>
> 4. A photon has the ability to accelerate.

It's velocity can change if you mean that it's direction can change or that
the speed of light is different through different media.