Relatives!

[Ivan Seeking]

I'm sitting here stewing; I'm so PO'd right now!!!

A close relative is trying to get me to falsify a physics calculation that will be used in a court of law. He and a former employer are going to court and he is trying to use me to win the suit based on a lie!!! He wants me to commit fraud. I'm a professional consultant for crying out loud.

God I hate this. I decided to do the calculation, but whether it helps or hurts him is not my problem. I told him it is what it is. The sucker even pressured me by emphasizing that about $200,000 rests in the balance. "It all depends on your calculation" he says. Tough!!!

Sorry for the b***** session but I am so ******* ******* that I can't even ***** think right now. ******, ***** this is ******* ******!!!!

[Evo]

I'm sitting here stewing; I'm so PO'd right now!!!

A close relative is trying to get me to falsify a physics calculation that will be used in a court of law. He and a former employer are going to court and he is trying to use me to win the suit based on a lie!!! He wants me to commit fraud. I'm a professional consultant for crying out loud.

God I hate this. I decided to do the calculation, but whether it helps or hurts him is not my problem. I told him it is what it is. The sucker even pressured me by emphasizing that about $200,000 rests in the balance. "It all depends on your calculation" he says. Tough!!!

Sorry for the b***** session but I am so ******* ******* that I can't even ***** think right now. ******, ***** this is ******* ******!!!!The nerve of some people. He's asking you to not only jeopardize your career, but commit a crime!

I hope you have a copy of your calculation in case someone "modifies" your work.

[the number 42]

Its a sad fact of life that money makes people behave badly. Even the best of us can be led astray by the lure. And to prove it, I'll do the calculation for 20% less than Seeking is asking, and come up with whatever answer seems the most appropriate. I can be contacted via this thread. Used bills only.

[jimmy p]

Sorry for the b***** session but I am so ******* ******* that I can't even ***** think right now. ******, ***** this is ******* ******!!!!

I'm intrigued... what is behind them asterisks? :wink: That bites. I hate being blackmailed by relatives. They are supposed to be the ones you trust.

[Prometheus]

I'm sitting here stewing; I'm so PO'd right now!!!
Although I can understand his position, his problem is not your problem. I recommend that you do not do anything against your ethical beliefs. The poblem is his, do not make it yours.

[Moonbear]

Relatives really can suck! If you haven't done so already, tell him point blank you won't perjure yourself or risk your career over this. Let him know in advance the outcome of the calculation if it will hurt his case. He and his lawyer can choose whether or not to put you on the stand. It won't help much anyway when the "professional consultant" hired is also a relative. Seems the other side could cast doubt with that information alone.

[Ivan Seeking]

Yes, I already told him that the math determines the outcome, not me. I don't know what ticks me off more, him trying to put me in the middle his BS, or the fact that he he thought I could make sure things came out in his favor. I have to fax the stuff to his lawyer with my letterhead but I retain the original copies of the documents.

The thing is, this person is not a bad person, in fact by many measures he is a really good person, but I am really disappointed and insulted that he thought coming to me would help his case. It was only after I had time to absorb all of the details that I realized what was happening; hence the rant.

[Dagenais]

I'm a professional consultant for crying out loud.



What's the difference between a Professional Consultant and a Regular Consultant? Isn't 'consultant' also a very, very broad profession?


I hate being blackmailed by relatives. They are supposed to be the ones you trust.


It's getting sad these days. On television, we see a brother suing his own brother, a daughter suing her own mother over money a lot less than $4000. It's heart wrenching to see families get broken up over hundreds of dollars.

I guess money is starting to means more than family in America. :frown:

[Ivan Seeking]

What's the difference between a Professional Consultant and a Regular Consultant? Isn't 'consultant' also a very, very broad profession?

My services are clearly outlined though my company literature, published policies and procedures, as well as for my general liability, and professional errors and omissions insurance. I guess you're a professional when you can get professional insurance. :biggrin: Why do you ask?

[Dagenais]

Why do you ask?

I was simply wondering why you decided to put "Professional", as I've never heard that used before by consultants. They'll usually be specific and say, "I'm a business consultant" or "I'm a finance consultant". I guess we assume that they are automatically Professionals - since...that's their profession.

Although, I do recall hearing that one of the most favoured job titles that the unemployed use to impress women are 'consultant' and 'actor'. So I guess "professional" makes it official.

[Ivan Seeking]

Being a professional carries a legal significance. Sorry if it offends you.

[Dagenais]

Sorry if it offends you.

Why would I be offended?

[Ivan Seeking]

Then what is your point?

[Math Is Hard]

Bleh! :yuck:
Ivan, is there anyway you can get out of this by referring them to a third party to do the calculation?
I would want absolutely nothing to do with it, and I'd go to any length of weaseling to avoid it. I'd complain I didn't have the right software or that the particular calculation wasn't within my expertise, etc. Whatever it took.
Sounds awful!

[amwbonfire]

I don't mean to be nosey, but what exactly is the calculation?

And what would happen if the other lawyers discovered the calculation was incorrect? Could you get into hot water over it? :frown:

[Evo]

I was simply wondering why you decided to put "Professional", as I've never heard that used before by consultants. They'll usually be specific and say, "I'm a business consultant" or "I'm a finance consultant". I guess we assume that they are automatically Professionals - since...that's their profession.

Although, I do recall hearing that one of the most favoured job titles that the unemployed use to impress women are 'consultant' and 'actor'. So I guess "professional" makes it official.I am very familiar with Professional Consultants. Professional Consultants will have at least a degree if not a Ph.D in their field and/or certifications. Anyone can claim to be a "consultant", Professional Consultants have to back that claim up. Here are a couple of Associations for Professional Consultants. They can have a wide spectrum of specialties.

The International Guild of Professional Consultants
Association offering designation as a Certified Professional Consultant (CPC).

Association of Professional Consultants
The APC is a non-profit corporation established in Orange County, California, in 1979. About their services, member listing, calendar of events and publications.

The Maine Association of Professional Consultants
Formed in 1981 to promote ethical consulting, encourage professional development among consultants and promote public awareness of the benefits of consulting.

[Olias]

I'm sitting here stewing; I'm so PO'd right now!!!

A close relative is trying to get me to falsify a physics calculation that will be used in a court of law. He and a former employer are going to court and he is trying to use me to win the suit based on a lie!!! He wants me to commit fraud. I'm a professional consultant for crying out loud.

God I hate this. I decided to do the calculation, but whether it helps or hurts him is not my problem. I told him it is what it is. The sucker even pressured me by emphasizing that about $200,000 rests in the balance. "It all depends on your calculation" he says. Tough!!!

Sorry for the b***** session but I am so ******* ******* that I can't even ***** think right now. ******, ***** this is ******* ******!!!!

Surely being a proffesional consultant, you can lie for total strangers, but not for those whom you know?..I am presuming that this is causing you concern, if its not, (lying?) then I see what you mean.

Even Professional 's can have sick day's?..send a sicknote to the court..along with a Scientific Calculator , with a dodgy battery :redface:

[Ivan Seeking]

Surely being a proffesional consultant, you can lie for total strangers, but not for those whom you know?..I am presuming that this is causing you concern, if its not, (lying?) then I see what you mean.


huh?

MIH, I know what you mean. When I realized that I was being sucked into a bad situation I nearly bailed. Still, as long as I tell no lies I will be fine. It was the personal thing more than the legal one that really bothered me. From my point of view, this person is willing to risk my well being, my business, my financial state, maybe even my jail time, all for his profit. I thought he cared about me and respected me more than that.

amwbonfire, in order to avoid any potential legal ramifications I don't want to discuss any specifics. Imagine if this thread found its way to the legal opposition! I will only say that the problem is an upper division mechanics problem.

Finally, I didn't mean to be pompous by specifying “professional”. When you deal with insurance and contracts, terms like professional consultant, professional engineer, and professional architect are all examples of the nomenclature.

[Olias]

Forgive me Ivan, I honestly thought this was not a bonafide post!

I had assumed (wrongly ), that you were leading everyone 'up-the-garden-path', due to the fact you are mostly putting sceptical links on PF.

Appologies, and hope you come through this "tough one" ok and True.

[Ivan Seeking]

No, I joke around a lot and I post a lot of wild stuff, but I try to make sure that everyone knows I'm only joking, or that this is just interesting information and nothing more. I seem to fail to convey this quite frequently for some reason. Not a new problem. Interestingly, Phatmonkey has gotten me recently with my own brand of humor; go figure.

[BobG]

Some might say integrity is like a warm fuzzy blanket ... and just as hard to define the exact line between blanket and non-blanket. But you can sure tell the general area of where the blanket ends the air begins!

Plus, thinking there's much 'fuzz' in a physics calculation is pretty naive. He's pretty much hoping nobody will be able to understand the calculation.

I'd educate him on both items and tell him he gets what he gets - whether he wants to use it or not is up to him.

(I am amazed at how the ability and/or inability to convey math or science concepts to a judge or jury can influence court cases. I read about a patent infringement case that was decided in favor of the defendant because most of the people in the court room were incapable of understanding the concept of derivatives. It meant something totally different in their language. The defendant won his case because he used a different baseline value, which meant all of the other values were different, so how could this possibly be the same design? I suspect the engineering experts for both sides were near tears.)

[Ivan Seeking]

Plus, thinking there's much 'fuzz' in a physics calculation is pretty naive. He's pretty much hoping nobody will be able to understand the calculation.

Yes. Yes.

I have to admit to laughing outloud when this dawned on me.

[Ivan Seeking]

A brief update. Now that he knows how the calculation will turn out [it can be easily approximated] this is no longer such an important issue.

To be fair, I think the un-named has a legitimate case, but like the LA cops in the OJ case, his zeal to win goes way too far.

[The Bob]

A brief update. Now that he knows how the calculation will turn out [it can be easily approximated] this is no longer such an important issue.

To be fair, I think the un-named has a legitimate case, but like the LA cops in the OJ case, his zeal to win goes way too far.

This should be in the 'People that piss you off...' thread because just reading it pisses me off. I got asked yesterday (on level a lot lower) about tetanus injections, as my friend is having one. They wanted to know where it goes. How do I know???

People use me as a walking dictionary, encyclopedia and calculater. They should get someone else to do it. Learn for themselves. I like to help but no every two seconds. Sound the same???

The Bob (2004 ©)

[Zantra]

Ya I get grilled more often than not myself. It gets annoying.


Ivan, don't sacrifice your personal integrity for the sake of a family member. They will get over it. It's messed up of this person to put you in that position in the first place.