Is foul language the New "Normal"?

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

24/07/2003

So "foul mouthed" language, is it really as prevalent as some people would like us all to think? Or is it just a "social misnomer" inasmuch as some people do not realize that, outside of their circle of friends, things, like this kind of language, are NOT the norm.

[Zantra]

I wasn't aware that swearing is even allowed on these boards. When it is done, it's edited so as not to influence the younger kids.

I'll admit I've done it a time or two, but Not consistently, and never blantantly. I will say that I never swear in public, and very rarley at all at home. Here it depends on who I'm addressing, and it's very situational.

I'd like to see if anyone else posts on this first before I comment any farther.

[zoobyshoe]

I also encounter malicious throat-
clearing.

[Zantra]

LOL

[zoobyshoe]

Seriously,

Mr. Robin Parsons, my guess is
that you started this thread in
reaction to another thread in
which the foulest of all possible
language was hurled at you.

I would like to assure you that,
as an observer of that thread,
I was very surprised by that per-
son's resorting to this. I haven't
been here very long but, so far,
haven't seen anything else like
this. In my view his use of that
language was an abberration.

I don't understand the term "social misnomer". Would you
explain?

It is a pity because it was other-
wise a fascinating thread.

[LURCH]

I work in a factory and most of my co-workers cuss like, well, like factory workers. I myself never use foul language.

Outside of the shop, I have two discrete social circles. I have my family, and a group of friends who are fairly "intellectual". In my discussions with these people, vulgar words are as rare as vulgar topics of discussion. The other group consists of people who are sexually promiscuous, heavy drinkers, drug abusers, or all of the above. The linguistic habits of this latter group are pretty much what one would expect them to be.

However, even these individuals would not use obscene language when placing a fast food order, speaking to a cashier at the grocery store, addressing a courtroom, school roomn, or town hall meeting, etc. Such language is simply not appropriate for any public forum, including this one. Even the most vulgar and foul-mouthed to individual should understand that.

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

"Social Misnomer" is derived from the idea that most of the persons, whom I have encountered, who have admitted to trying something like Marijuana, end up telling me that; "Everyone (I know) Smokes it".

It is my inclusion of the (I know) that indicates what the 'social misnomer' actually is, everyone "you know" in the circles of friends that you have, and interact in.

As I have explained, to some of the people who have used the 'everyone' line with me, that is a perception that excludes an eye upon the greater reality of simply your own, tight, circle.

Having been involved in a great diversity of backgrounds, and peoples, in the years that I have worked, at many a diverse employment, I have encountered many places #1) with lots of cussing, #2) some with less, #3) some with none, #4) some where you would be fired on the spot for it, so my perception of the reality of it is somewhat enlarged to a degree that I have a more generalized perception of things, hence the four notations above.

But I was curious, as I had been enjoying the idea that such language was NOT in general usage in these forums, as I (sometimes) find the usage of such terms as simply a form of intellectual/(ineffectual) lazzzyness..............so...

EDIT PS I really like what Lurch stated! I agree!

[jcsd]

Is it ****!!!!!!!! What sort of ****ing question is that?

[jcsd]

What sort of gay-assed forum is this, where you can't even say **** or ****?

[zoobyshoe]

Mr. Robin Parsons:

Thank you for the explanation.

I have to agree with you that resorting to profanity is a
form of laziness. People who indulge in it become less and
less able to articulate things
any other way. As a result they
are less and less able to under-
stand what others are saying.

I also found Lurch's post to
the point and very well put.

jcsd:I wish your two posts were
as funny as you thought they were.
Maybe someday. Keep trying!

[jcsd]

Yeah go **** yourself, you ****ing pouff.

[LURCH]

Originally posted by jcsd
Yeah go **** yourself, you ****ing pouff.

There is no need for such overcompensation here, jcsd. Your homosexuality will not be counted as a mark against you in these Forums. We are more interested in your ideas.

[zoobyshoe]

Mr. Robin Parsons,

Actually, I am interested in
finding out where you were go-
ing with the assertion that
both Michelson/Morley and Sir
Oliver Lodge missed out on the
'third alternative'.?

Unfortunately in the other thread
you didn't get the chance to
explain this.

-Zoob

[Andy]

Oh my! jcsd is burning my ears (eyes) with such an appaling use of obscene language, i really wish someone (greg) would put an end to this!

[jcsd]

Since when has S****horpe been an offensive word that need's editing?

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

Originally posted by jcsd
What sort of gay-assed forum is this, where you can't even say **** or ****?

So why/how does "restricting yourself make you {insert jcsd's words *here*}?

How does cursing prove anything, about you, other then that you are willing to freely curse, and apparently?? lack vocabulary??

[zoobyshoe]

Mr. Robin Parsons,
Ignore the flak and let the heath-
ens rage. I am interested in hearing about that third alternative. Please.

-Zoob

[jcsd]

Originally posted by Mr. Robin Parsons
So why/how does "restricting yourself make you {insert jcsd's words *here*}?

How does cursing prove anything, about you, other then that you are willing to freely curse, and apparently?? lack vocabulary??

This from a man whose got a banana raping another banana in his avatar [6)]

Swearing is the only way I can express myself.

[zoobyshoe]

jcsd: Much better.

Mr.Robin: Danke Schon.

-Zoob

[Andy]

I am one that has cursed alot in the past but am trying to change my ways, but have a question and its relevant as well! (shock)[8)]

If you where to hit your self on the hand with a hammer what would you say other than " ****ing ****** cant believe **** **** ****!" how would you express that without cursing?

[zoobyshoe]

You asked the right person. I
do carpentry work all the time.
I find that if you pay just a
little bit of attention, you
will never hit yourself anywhere
with the hammer.

[Zantra]

Originally posted by Andy
I am one that has cursed alot in the past but am trying to change my ways, but have a question and its relevant as well! (shock)[8)]

If you where to hit your self on the hand with a hammer what would you say other than " ****ing ****** cant believe **** **** ****!" how would you express that without cursing?

And here I thought the english just said "oh dear, I seem to have smashed my hand with a hammer. This is MOST certainly unfortunate- tut tut"

I do want to point out that those english swearwords you taught me don't even come close to passing for swearing to me.

To me "bloody" is about as bad a word as "dork". So I, and probably the rest of the forums except for the english people, don't take it as offensive.

So if I offended you with them, apologies.

[zoobyshoe]

That would only be if there were
someone else present. Alone he
would resort to "Ye-Gads!"

[Andy]

And here I thought the english just said "oh dear, I seem to have smashed my hand with a hammer. This is MOST certainly unfortunate- tut tut"

I do want to point out that those english swearwords you taught me don't even come close to passing for swearing to me.

To me "bloody" is about as bad a word as "dork". So I, and probably the rest of the forums except for the english people, don't take it as offensive.

So if I offended you with them, apologies.

If i remember correctly i also said that although its classified as slang that nobody that i know if gets offended when bloody is used, what other english swearwords did i/ us english teach you. seeing as english is origionally our language all swears our english anyway, unless you get clever and link all of them to there latin roots(if they have them that is).

[zoobyshoe]

No, you're right. All the clas-
sics are post-Roman Anglo-Saxon.
They are amazingly durable and
have withstood the test of time.

The strange thing is that I
learned that bit of history from
a very proper old lady: one of
my high school English teachers.
She would never have used any of
those words herself but it turned
out that whenever she heard any
of the kids using them, rather
than scold them, her impulse was
to explain how old those words
were and where they came from.
That's how much she loved the
English language.

-Zoob

[Zantra]

Originally posted by Andy
If i remember correctly i also said that although its classified as slang that nobody that i know if gets offended when bloody is used, what other english swearwords did i/ us english teach you. seeing as english is origionally our language all swears our english anyway, unless you get clever and link all of them to there latin roots(if they have them that is).

Sadly enough, though my relatives hail from the isle of wight and sussex, my cockney is non-existent. What's a gent to do? What little I do gather is that the english swear words are mild in comparison to some of the several other languages I can add color too[;)] (I can say things in arabic that would make any sailor blush)

i believe "wanker" is the worst english word I know and probably the only other swearword at that... hehe. The english are known for many things.. horrible insults is not one of them, which can be thought of as a blessing depending on your point of view. Of course everyone takes insults in thier native language more personal than in another language- a lot of times they don't make sense unless taken in cultural context.

[Bubonic Plague]

So "foul mouthed" language, is it really as prevalent as some people would like us all to think? Or is it just a "social misnomer" inasmuch as some people do not realize that, outside of their circle of friends, things, like this kind of language, are NOT the norm.

I'm not really sure about outside my circle, but i do know that in my school, swear words litter sentences quite frequently. It isn't uncommon to cuss to emphasize things.

[Artman]

I believe that foul language has indeed become more prevalent. What this is however is not a reflection of reality, I believe it is an amplification of an unreal, dramatized, portion of society.

Look at how foul language is used: for emphasis, to show anger or high emotion, to showoff or appear tough to peers, out of habit (usually developed from showing-off), or for humor.

Most of these are not conversational they are the exceptions not the norm. Movies and TV frequently use foul language, but they are depicting drama not normal life. Normal life is boring, polite conversation does not cause tension and tension is drama. What movies fail to realize is that when overused, foul language loses its ability to shock and becomes invisible and no longer produces tension. It just becomes annoying. This is true also in real life. Too much foul language lacks power, it is just annoying.

[Zantra]

Originally posted by Bubonic Plague
I'm not really sure about outside my circle, but i do know that in my school, swear words litter sentences quite frequently. It isn't uncommon to cuss to emphasize things.

When teenager do it, it's a form of immation designed to make them "sound cool". They think that it will impress thier peers. In some cases they learn it in various places (including at home) and think that it's a legitimate way to express themselves, not realizing that overuse minimizes the effect. Unfortunately it carries over into adulthood.

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

Originally posted by jcsd
#1) This from a man whose got a banana raping another banana in his avatar [6)]

#2) Swearing is the only way I can express myself.

#1) **AHEM** if you look carefully, you too will note that the participants, are all willing, freely willing.
(And it's called "D-A-N-C-I-N-G" not 'rape')

#2) And that statement, is a self deception, because, it contains NOT ONE SWEAR WORD but it successfully expresses YOU!

Perhaps after, if I've the time, I will respond to some of the rest, which I have enjoyed reading!

PS Andy, the word is OUCH!!!

[jcsd]

The banana at the front doesn't exactly look to happy about it :)

To tell the truth my own postion is that there only words, nothing to be too concerned with, which is why when people use them as intensfiers it shouldn't be a problem though if people are just being vulgarians and swear for the sake of swearing then that's a load of ****.

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

Originally posted by jcsd
#1) The banana at the front doesn't exactly look to happy about it :)

#2) To tell the truth my own postion is that there only words, nothing to be too concerned with, which is why when people use them as intensfiers it shouldn't be a problem though if people are just being vulgarians and #3) swear for the sake of swearing then that's a load of ****.

#1) You mean that one that's yelling "WO'HOOOOO"??

#2) If they truly are "only words" and employed as intensifiers, then why them?, why not "other" intesifieing words that are not generally seen as so offensive in nature, gutteral in thought, and considered vulgar in use.

#3) As for "swearing for the sake of swearing", doesn't that just show an acceptence of a habit, acceptence of a desire to be considered forwardly offensive? contempt of possible listeners?, unwillingness to seek acceptence, socially, by verbal derrision(sp?)?

[Andy]

though my relatives hail from the isle of wight and sussex,

Cool i live just the other side of the Solent near Southampton and the New Forest.

Come on Robin how many people can honestly say that they say ouch when they are hurt in an accident, most do curse when this happens and the vast majority would at least say "god dammit".

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

Originally posted by Andy
Cool i live just the other side of the Solent near Southampton and the New Forest.
Come on (Mr.) Robin (Parsons) how many people can honestly say that they say ouch when they are hurt in an accident, most do curse when this happens and the vast majority would at least say "god dammit".

Firstly, for someone who wanted to take me to task over "knowning the other", considering I have been your age, but you have never been mine, you obvious false sense of familiarity, that have been using, really shows you for what you are.

Also, the simplicity that I had, just today, asked a friend of mine who does carpentry work, he said he says "OW" too, as did I when I worked in that trade, and in the trade of mechanics, as well.

So your statment of; "most do" simply shows that you are 'self assumptive' in your conclusions, unless (of course) you can back that up with some independant proof(s). Otherwise, you simply tell us all that you are making up the "Facts" as you go along, sharing nothing with us, the readers of these postings, save your over active imagination.

[Artman]

Originally posted by Andy

...how many people can honestly say that they say ouch when they are hurt in an accident, most do curse when this happens and the vast majority would at least say "god dammit".

A preacher once told me that when a person loses control what "comes out" is what they are "filled with."

When you think about it, this is true. If a person dwells on cursing and uses swear words on a regular basis this is what will come out when upset or out of control. But, if the person does not frequently use swear words, these will not be what would come out.

I can't say which is the vast majority, but I do believe that this is true. If a person has never heard or rarely hears or uses a swear word, they probably would not use one if injured or upset.

I actually heard the preacher who told me this say, "Ow! Praise God!" When he scraped his knuckle doing a car repair. I looked at him kind of strangely at his response to the scrape and he added, "I'll think of a good reason (to praise God) later." He was a good man who truely practiced what he preached. I certainly don't think this is a common reaction, but just an illustration of my point.

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

Originally posted by Artman
A preacher once told me that when a person loses control what "comes out" is what they are "filled with."

When you think about it, this is true. If a person dwells on cursing and uses swear words on a regular basis this is what will come out when upset or out of control. But, if the person does not frequently use swear words, these will not be what would come out.

I can't say which is the vast majority, but I do believe that this is true. If a person has never heard or rarely hears or uses a swear word, they probably would not use one if injured or upset.

I actually heard the preacher who told me this say, "Ow! Praise God!" When he scraped his knuckle doing a car repair. I looked at him kind of strangely at his response to the scrape and he added, "I'll think of a good reason (to praise God) later." He was a good man who truely practiced what he preached. I certainly don't think this is a common reaction, but just an illustration of my point.

Beautifully stated, IMO Thanks, from one who has worked as a mechanic, and knows a completely different meaning to "Punching a Head" or "giving it a 'shot' in the head" and bled, and skin, and IMO Silence is the very best manner of reaction to such things, as that is the most responcible for one's own actions.

It was another thread I had started in Philosophy, "Who/What controls your mind?"....if I can find it I'll link it.

[Andy]

I havent worked AS a mechanic but i used to work in a garage on saturdays helping out with repairs and services on cars, this garage was right next door to a scrap yard and i did alot of work with them as well and i found that out of the 3 mechanics that worked in the garage 2 of them would swear quite often (never in the presence of a custoner) and they would definetly swear whenever they hurt themselves, and as for the 4-5 people that worked in the scrap yard they never stopped swearing, so for me this would be the majority of people. I have never worked with carpenters but my Craft design and technology teacher at school did swear when he hurt himelf but only in the presence of his better students who had stayed behind after school to work on their projects. I will soon be working as a Mercedes mechanic starting my 4 year aprenticeship programme next week, so in a few weeks/months time i will be able to tell you just what kinda language they use when working, although i expect it to be very good with them being mercedes and specialising in luxury cars.

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

MOI
It was another thread I had started in Philosophy, "Who/What controls your mind?"....if I can find it I'll link it.

Must a been PF 2.0 caaaaause, "I no keena find it, now'heres!"

Sorry!

In several places that I have worked, 'foul' language is simply not tolerated. Would you buy something from someone, a salesperson in a store, who told you it was the "F'n" best?

[zoobyshoe]

It seems to be very well toler-
ated in all male work places, of
the kind andy describes. I worked
in two machine shops where the
supervisors were the worst of all.

In two other machine shops the
supervisors frowned on it and
reated to it such that people
were discouraged from using it
in front of them, at least.

The more mixing of sexes there is
in a workplace the more of an
official offence it becomes. And
as you mentioned, I can't think
of any salesperson-customer
situation where it would be tol-
erated.

My main objection to it in this
forum is that in resorting to it
all communication breaks down.
I think everyone comes here to
learn and share information.
Therefore cultivate those states
of mind in which you become more
articulate and avoid those in
which you become less.

[Andy]

In several places that I have worked, 'foul' language is simply not tolerated. Would you buy something from someone, a salesperson in a store, who told you it was the "F'n" best?

it would'nt put me off buying something from him because i dont perticuarly frown apon bad language like that, but i can understand why people would be put of by that use of language, this is why as i said that the mechanics never swore in front of a customer, and i would have most probably been told to hit the road for doing that myself.

My main objection to it in this
forum is that in resorting to it
all communication breaks down.
I think everyone comes here to
learn and share information.
Therefore cultivate those states
of mind in which you become more
articulate and avoid those in
which you become less.

For example i suppose this is a case of that,

"You full on ****ing **** wit, if you had an ounce of common sense you be be ****ing dangerous!" i dont agree with that kinda of post(although i probably have done that myself in the past) but isnt that when you get smarter than the other person and make them look stupid by replying with smarter posts.

[zoobyshoe]

That's what ends up happening
but when it does it's an unsatis-
fing substitute for what could
have been a good exchange of ideas.

Sometimes people want to make the
other look stupid because they've
had their feelings hurt and want
revenge. Other times it's an at-
tempt to get their attention when
they seem to be going overboard.
Speaking for myself, of course.

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

Originally posted by Andy
(SNIP) "You full on ****ing **** wit, if you had an ounce of common sense you be be ****ing dangerous!" i dont agree with that kinda of post(although i probably have done that myself in the past) but isnt that when you get smarter than the other person and make them look stupid by replying with smarter posts.

Problem is that, that kind of language, does NOT make you the 'smarter poster', but simply the rude one.

As zoobyshoe says, it is not helping to foster "good communications", hence learning.

[zoobyshoe]

Mr. Robin Parsons,

My understanding of what Andy
meant was different than yours.
I took him to be saying that
once person A resorts to profani-
ty, person B is provided with the opportunity of making person A
feel stupid by adopting a more cultivated, self controled stance.

That is what I understood him to
be saying, but he will have to
confirm or deny it.

-Zoob

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

Originally posted by zoobyshoe
Mr. Robin Parsons,
My understanding of what Andy
meant was different than yours.
I took him to be saying that
once person A resorts to profani-
ty, person B is provided with the opportunity of making person A
feel stupid by adopting a more cultivated, self controled stance.
That is what I understood him to
be saying, but he will have to
confirm or deny it.
-Zoob

You could be absolutely correct, then again, it is Andy sooooo..

[Andy]

I feel alot of hostility coming from you robin, and yes it was meant as zoob thought.

[zoobyshoe]

That's a relief. I thought I had
understood what you were pointing
out, but sometimes I read things
too quickly and misinterpret them.

Anyay, congratulations on your
Mercedes apprenticship. I take it
you're still pretty young in years?

-Zoob

[Zantra]

do you get a free mercedes with your apprenticeship?[a)]

Can I borrow it?[:D]

[zoobyshoe]

Hey! Don't try to highjack my
idea of sucking up to him so I
can borrow his Mercedes! Find
your own Mercedes mechanic!

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

Originally posted by Andy
I feel alot of hostility coming from you (Mr.) (R)obin, (Parsons) and yes it was meant as zoob thought.

And tell us all Andy, just what it is/was, that I have written, that generates this sensation of hostility, that you seem to find within yourself?

PS As you once commented upon my for not spelling someones name properly, do you think you could address me properly, without this false informality, cause, quite clearly, you don't know me.

PS To the others, you should wait until he finishes the courses, four years, before you "Book Him" cause, well, lots'a reasons! (Do whatever you want!)

[zoobyshoe]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mr. Robin Parsons
[B]And tell us all Andy, just what it is/was, that I have written, that generates this sensation of hostility, that you seem to find within yourself?

Mr. Robin Parsons:

My understanding of what Andy
meant was different than yours.
I understood him to be saying
he percieved hostility in you.
I did not understand him to be
reporting that he, himself, was
experiencing hostility.

That is what I understood him
to be saying.

With all due respect,

-Zoob

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

Originally posted by zoobyshoe
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mr. Robin Parsons
And tell us all Andy, just what it is/was, that I have written, that generates this sensation of hostility, that you seem to find within yourself?

Mr. Robin Parsons:

My understanding of what Andy
meant was different than yours.
I understood him to be saying
he percieved hostility in you.
I did not understand him to be
reporting that he, himself, was
experiencing hostility.

That is what I understood him
to be saying.

With all due respect,

-Zoob

Yes, the question is posed to andy, BECAUSE
Originally posted by Andy
(SNIP) I feel alot of hostility coming from you (Mr.) Robin, (Parsons) (SNoP)

Because the hostility Adny feels is being generated within him, it is NOT coming from me as he would like you all to believe, it is arising within him as a result of what he "wishes to believe"

Andy if you cannot address me by my proper name, please, stop addressing me completely!

Zoobyshoe, please let Andy respond for himself, thanks! (otherwise any sense of communication, or the lack thereof, will not be resolved between him and I)

[Andy]

Yes i am still young in the grand scheme of things 17 soon to be 18, and i wont get a mercedes for about another 17 years because of the insurance policy that mercedes have, as you can imagine it is very expensive to get insured on on a mercedes.

And to whom it may concern, i feel hostility from your posts because of the bad vibes that i receive from them, your posts give my good karma a bad feeling about it.

PS i cant remember moaning at you for not addressing someone by there proper name, show me thread to proove me wrong, but i really cant remember saying that.

[Dagenais]

So "foul mouthed" language, is it really as prevalent as some people would like us all to think? Or is it just a "social misnomer" inasmuch as some people do not realize that, outside of their circle of friends, things, like this kind of language, are NOT the norm.

Foul language is a way to express pain, suffering and anger through words. Nothing more.

I would rather one curse than result his anger through violence.

Words don't hurt as much as violence, no matter what Psychologists say. Those who are "internally damaged" by insults are just weak to begin with. Violence does alot more than harm.

Many great books, wouldn't be as great without the cursing to show the anger of the characters. Michael Crichton has some cursing in his books.

The same with movies. Anyone seen Phone Booth? Quite a bit of cursing there which portrays the characters feelings to us.

I go to public school, soon probably private school so I encounter lots of cursing.

I encounter cursing on the Golf course and at home.

My father, who is a boss at a formal big-business office (where you would think no cursing occurs), occurs. No...they don't fire you, I doubt they would say anything at all.

Cursing happens in University as well.

The only place I would think that you would get consequences for it would be in...church?

vast majority would at least say "god dammit

No, the majority would say a 4 letter word. If one was shot in the leg or arm, they would say much more than "god damnit!". If they were still concious of course.

[zoobyshoe]

Andy,
I'm surprised at how young you
are. I don't know why but I
pictured early twenties. Anyway
I do think it's a great thing
about the Mercedes apprenticeship.
I wasted many years, financially
speaking, in unskilled jobs.

I actually wouldn't want to
own a Mercedes unless I were so
rich the repairs and insurance
were a drop in the bucket. Some
people put their last penny into
their cars.

The interesting thing is that
one of the guys who lives here
in my building just bought a 20
year old Mercedes very, very
cheaply and it is in remarkably
good shape. It runs fairly well
and all it seems to need is a
new catalytic converter to make
it street legal. That is not an
expensive repair.

So, I may be able to borrow his
but, of course, Zantra is not
invited.

-Zoob

[zoobyshoe]

Kenny,

I don't think foul language is
a substitute for violence. I think
you're more likely to find foul
language and violence together
in an individual, and proper
language and non-violence togeth-
er.

There are always exceptions, but
usually people who are physically
violent also curse. It is also
possible to be verbally abusive
without using a single curse word.

Having said all that I have to
agree that being physically abused
is worse than being sworn at.

-Zoob

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

Originally posted by kenikov
Foul language is a way to express pain, suffering and anger through words. Nothing more.

I would agree with you, but I would remove one word, "language is a way to express pain, suffering and anger through words. Nothing more."

Foul language is/has been, a part of the societies that I have experienced as well, but I do sorta look to see if people control themselves at all, how much they actually can control themselves, actually.

Self discipline of the mind is certainly an important aspect of intellectual ability, and thus, pertinent to the aquisition of knowledge through both pathmanners, linguistic, and experiancial.
(And the combination of the two)

Originally posted by zoobyshoe
Having said all that I have to agree that being physically abused is worse than being sworn at.

That, well stated, needs clarity inasmuch as it is nessecary to remember that intellectual tortures still have effects upon humans, cursing at a person has potential(s), (But as zoobyshoe said...) but there is still the realm of furthered possibilities that lead to 'clear forms' of mental/psychological abuse, and to the potential degree of it being torture. (too far for most of us?)

Thankfully, clearly, foul language alone doesn't usually measure "to that degree" in anyone, other then the "perfectly innocent", AKA children.

[Andy]

I'm surprised at how young you
are. I don't know why but I
pictured early twenties. Anyway
I do think it's a great thing
about the Mercedes apprenticeship.
I wasted many years, financially
speaking, in unskilled jobs.

Thanks alot zooby, i am really chuffed to get this job, about 3 weeks ago i didnt have a clue where i was gonna be workin or what direction my life was going in but now it would appear that if all goes well then i could be sorted for life.

Origionally posted by kenny
Words don't hurt as much as violence, no matter what Psychologists say. Those who are "internally damaged" by insults are just weak to begin with. Violence does alot more than harm.

I disagree with this in general, alot of the time you will hear about young people commiting suicide because of mental abuse from other youths, where as severe physical violence is very rare for it to happen reguarly to the same person normally it is just because someone has got into a fight in a bar soemwhere and ended up in hospital but very rarely do they suffer much more abuse than that, whereas mental abuse tends to happen over a longer period and causes much mroe pain.

[zoobyshoe]

Andy,

Actually, there is a terrible
problem with family members
physically abusing other family
members over the course of many
years. Husbands beat their wives
up, fathers beat their children.
Sometimes mothers beat their
children.
The kind of scuffle in a bar you
mention isn't where the serious
problem lies.


Off the topic: "Chuffed"? We don't
have that expression over here.
I get an idea of what it means
from the context but tell me.

-zoob

[Andy]

ah chuffed=[:D] isn't slang, not to my knowledge anyway, but it is a word that youths use in Britain it isnt used that much, almost never used by older people.

I didnt think about the abuse suffered by people over a long term like that, i was just making the point that mental abuse is quite often the reason for many suicides by youths. Basically we a saying that abuse of any kind is very serious and should never be used.

[Dagenais]

I disagree with this in general, alot of the time you will hear about young people commiting suicide because of mental abuse from other youths, where as severe physical violence is very rare for it to happen reguarly to the same person normally it is just because someone has got into a fight in a bar soemwhere and ended up in hospital but very rarely do they suffer much more abuse than that, whereas mental abuse tends to happen over a longer period and causes much mroe pain.




No. Being sworn at is not as bad as being beaten. It is logic.

Who here would want to get stabbed and shot over being called an idiot?

The people who go through suicide usually had mental problems before, or much more than just insults thrown at them. Any Psychiastrist would vouch for this.

This is also true in sports. Insults in professional sports like the NBA happen every second on the court, but when a fight breaks out you are immediatly suspended. Why? Because a fight is more serious and worse.






I'm sure everyone here would take the latter, if they told the truth.

I also would not want to own a Mercedes, they seem kind of for old(er) people.

I still haven't gotten my first car yet, but hopefully I can convice my dad into getting me a BMW.

[zoobyshoe]

Andy,

I agree with your concluding state
ment about abuse.

You're right. I found chuffed in
the dictionary. I'd never heard
the word before.

-zoob

[Andy]

[QUOTE]No. Being sworn at is not as bad as being beaten. It is logic.

Who here would want to get stabbed and shot over being called an idiot?{/QUOTE]

I have been punched by friends before on many occasions and i have punched friends on many occasions but we have still remain friends, but if a friend where to start taking the piss outta me because of who i am then i would take serious offence to that and probably neevr talk to them again.

But thinking about it friends call me a bastard every time i beat them at pool (cmdr_sponge) and i take no offence, i suppose what i am talking about is mental abuse rather than physical abuse and mental abuse doesnt have to involve swearing, where as i feel that mental abuse can be alot worse than physical abuse, but this all depends on the severity of the physical abuse. some school children commit suicide by receiving constant mental abuse whilst at school and i know that i would rather by punched every day than recaive mental abuse everyday.

[zoobyshoe]

What Andy just said gave me a
realization about why physical
abuse is so bad: because it is
a physical manifestation of mental
abuse. It is mental abuse with the
added physical insult.

It is easier to get over physical
pain if there is no mental abuse
component to it.

However, too much physical pain,
from any cause, can also make a
person want to die. Even though
there is no mental abuse compo-
nent. I'm thinking of people
in pain from serious illness for
example. I've gotten food poison-
ing a couple times and felt so
bad I was sure death was where it
was going and wished it would
hurry up.

Zooby

[Dagenais]

So, everyday at school you would rather be ganged-up on, be beaten until you bleed then you go into class, then again the next day, you are beaten until you bleed for the rest of the school year every single day (predicting you don't die).

Instead of being insulted everyday, you would rather suffer the humiliation of being punched, kicked and beaten-up?

[Andy]

I never said beaten up, I said punched. I have experienced both of these in the form of phyical abuse and mental abuse and the mental abuse was the one that made me want to stay at home with fear that i would receive the same thing again. Whereas when i have been beaten up, not really beaten up just a bloody nose, i found that i didnt fear going back into school the next day, maybe thats just me though.

How many times do you hear about someone being beaten up every day, happens very rarely in the UK, most of the constant bullying that people receive is mental rather than physical.

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

Originally posted by kenikov
(SNIP) The people who go through suicide usually had mental problems before, or much more than just insults thrown at them. Any Psychiastrist would vouch for this. (SNoP)

This is just a little to broad a conclusion to be making, after all, it is known that people who quit marijuana, will get a bout of depression, timed depression, and an associated "suicidal feeling(s)" simply from there withdrawal from the use of the drug.

There is a difference between physical violence, and mental abuse.

For another thread, perhaps..................?

[Andy]

Back to the origional question i think that foul language is the new normal, although there is no need for it to be used it is just the way that our culture has developed over the years.

[Dagenais]

The difference between physical abuse is that it hurts, literally. Physical abuse hurts everyone.

Verbal abuse doesn't, in fact, less sensitive people don't find it at harm at all.

If I was beaten-up at school, I would fear going back for sure. Either that or I might get angry and plan a retaliation.

[Andy]

Verbal abuse gets too everyone some sooner others later, what you have to remember is that this thread was about foul language not verbal abuse, i agree that most people can receive insults in the form of bad language without caring.

Verbal abuse is an attack on the mind and like any attack if its well placed it is very affective, whereas foul language is just a release of frustration and anger towards something or somebody.

[Dagenais]

Not true. I can say verbal abuse cna never "get to" a few people.

The job of Comedians and other celebreties like Tom on The Best Damn Sports show. He never takes insults personally, Jerry Springer doesn't either. Jim Rome insults people and abuses them until he got punches in the face, he just laughs off their replies.

The deal is that verbal abuse is not as effective as physical abuse, that is why the punishment for physical abuse is much more.

[Andy]

Everyone has a week spot when it comes to mental abuse, just because they dont react ot verbal insults doesnt mean they are strong minded, if iw as paid not to react to insults then i never would, the fact is evryone has week spots mentally and if someone attacks that they would find it very uncomfortable.

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

Sorry kenikov, but I would have to agree with Andy on this one.

I agree that there are people who appear to take it better, that is the manner of television broadcast, (the ability to edit helps too) but, as andy, and any true(r) espionage novel, will tell you, the mind has limitations in it's ability to with stand certain elements of communication.

Sadly though, I do find that Foul language is bifuracted in it's usage, sorta a love/hate relationship with the words use, by it's author/user. Bridges the ideas of "just Foul Language" and crosses into "Verbal/mental Abuse" a little to easily

That kind of game sorta leads to an opportunity for a Sly sort of abuse, that has some 'digs' to it, none the less.

Not the kindest way to play, with words. (thoughts/ideas, peoples brains/emotions)

[Dagenais]

Yes, everyone does have a weak spot, so what stops them from finding the insulter's own weak spot and eat away at it?

Everyone feels pain. Pain is much more prevalent and hurtful through violence. Serious injury, or even death can occur through violence.

All I am saying is, that violence is worse than being sworn at. Many of you would rather be mocked than shot.

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

Originally posted by kenikov
Yes, everyone does have a weak spot, so what stops them from finding the insulter's own weak spot and eat away at it?
Everyone feels pain. Pain is much more prevalent and hurtful through violence. Serious injury, or even death can occur through violence.
All I am saying is, that violence is worse than being sworn at. Many of you would rather be mocked than shot.

So kenikov, the choice is now yours, a life time of mockery, or shot in the leg, non-lethal, non-permenent injury, once....which would you choose?

[Andy]

Hvae you heard the stories about soldiers who have been shot and still faught on regardless of the fact that they have been shot. Yet how many soldiers can withstand the Mental Torture methods that are used by interogators.

[Dagenais]

Andy, interrogators use violence as well in war. They will torture you, and violence is just as common as verbal abuse.

If it was just words, they wouldn't break in war.

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

Apparently you haven't heard of "White Noise", it's psychological effects have studied, and apparently it is an effective tool of torture for some prisoners. That is in complete absence of any physical violence.

[Andy]

After 1 week at mercedes i can say that it was just like any normal garage, all of the mechanics use many expressive such as Fvck, eg, "that anti roll bar is fvcked" i would go into more detail but it would take far too long. They are very profesional there and would never use any obscenities infront of a customer. The best thing is that i was put in control of a £90,000 car, thats a CL 55, a very very nice car.

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

Originally posted by Andy
After 1 week at mercedes i can say that it was just like any normal garage, all of the mechanics use many expressive such as Fvck, eg, "that anti roll bar is fvcked" i would go into more detail but it would take far too long. They are very profesional there and would never use any obscenities infront of a customer. The best thing is that i was put in control of a £90,000 car, thats a CL 55, a very very nice car.

Find that kinda 'funny' to say it that way, as from when I had to "Be Professional" there was no cursing, anywhere.

[Andy]

When i say professional i mean that they get the job done in the most effecient way possible whilst making sure that everything that they have worked on is done correctly, just because some (all) of the workers choose to curse when they are chatting to each other or expresiing their work doesnt mean that they arent professional. If you where to ban swearing in the work place then i feel that the good working relatiuonship between the workers and the management will wear very thin as the workers will always be thinking about what to say before they say it, and in the kinda place where we work i feel that this would have a very negative effect. Also what better way is there to saying about how something doesnt work?

eg, 1, The suspension arm is broken.

2, the susension arm is fvcked?

I know which one works better.

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

Originally posted by Andy
When i say professional i mean that they get the job done in the most effecient way possible whilst making sure that everything that they have worked on is done correctly, just because some (all) of the workers choose to curse when they are chatting to each other or expresiing their work doesnt mean that they arent professional. If you where to ban swearing in the work place then i feel that the good working relatiuonship between the workers and the management will wear very thin as the workers will always be thinking about what to say before they say it, and in the kinda place where we work i feel that this would have a very negative effect. Also what better way is there to saying about how something doesnt work?

eg, 1, The suspension arm is broken.

2, the susension arm is fvcked?

I know which one works better.

This statment serves to demonstrate that it is a practise of intellectual lazyness

Ahh the apprenticeship of youth, a week on the job, and an 'expert' already.

Your second "eg" adds an unnessecary emotive, thus is a harmonically disruptive waste of word.

Yes, the one that sates your Ego. (precious little else)

[Andy]

You really are a miserable old sod that likes argueing with 17 year olds arent you,

Ahh the apprenticeship of youth, a week on the job, and an 'expert' already.

In my post where does it say that i am an expert? All i said was "I fell that this would have a negative effect on the workplace" I didnt say i know that this would have a negative, only that i feel.

Yes, the one that sates your Ego. (precious little else)

And this sates your ego, always thinking that because you are older you have to be right, well tell me this, have you ever worked in a Mercedes garage? You always claim to have knowledge of many different trades but you mustnt have been very good at any of them otherwise you would have been able to hold on to one of those jobs, and if you had kept one of those jobs the chances are you wouldnt be sleeping in a tent everynite and cycling about 20 miles/kilometers everyday just to get food and use the internet.

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

Originally posted by Andy
(SNIP) In my post where does it say that i am an expert? (SNoP)

It doesn't but you demonstrate having formed a complete judgment in a weeks time, that alludes to you acting like one.

Originally posted by Andy
And this sates your ego, always thinking that because you are older you have to be right, well tell me this, have you ever worked in a Mercedes garage? You always claim to have knowledge of many different trades but you mustnt have been very good at any of them otherwise you would have been able to hold on to one of those jobs, and if you had kept one of those jobs the chances are you wouldnt be sleeping in a tent everynite and cycling about 20 miles/kilometers everyday just to get food and use the internet.

And this "attempt at attack" sates yours.

I do not Claim to have knowledge, I have simply admited to it, there is a huge difference, and it is NOT a measure of my capabilities, nor of my job tenure, as one of the ones (employs) that ended out the 90's, for me, had been going on nearly ten years. (Shows how little you know about me, and that you keep trying to "sit in judgment of me", absent of lots of knowledge that is needed)

But it is that, by the Grace of God, I have progressed well beyond that type of work, (provably) just that I seem to have been incapable of getting the accreditation that I have earned, (hence furtherment) seems you love to miss pointing that one out, don't you!

[Andy]

I have progressed well beyond that type of work, (provably) just that I seem to have been incapable of getting the accreditation that I have earned, (hence furtherment) seems you love to miss pointing that one out, don't you!

Please explain how you are beyond that type of work? Or is this just another case where your ego is taking over?

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

Originally posted by Andy
Please explain how you are beyond that type of work? Or is this just another case where your ego is taking over?

No.

And No.

[eNtRopY]

Originally posted by Andy
Please explain how you are beyond that type of work? Or is this just another case where your ego is taking over?

Look, he's homeless because he is arrogant. He could take a job doing anything that would allow him to pay for his own food, but he would rather waste his fellow countrymen's taxes because he considers himself beyond work.

Now for the real question. Who is more of a man? Andy, who takes responsibility for his own life and works 45 U.K. hours per week, or Mr. Robbin Parsons, who relies on his government to feed him?

Oooh... right in the nuts!

eNtRopY

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

Originally posted by eNtRopY
Look, he's homeless because he is arrogant. He could take a job doing anything that would allow him to pay for his own food, but he would rather waste his fellow countrymen's taxes because he considers himself beyond work.

Now for the real question. Who is more of a man? Andy, who takes responsibility for his own life and works 45 U.K. hours per week, And lives at home with Mom and Dad (?) or Mr. Robbin Parsons, who relies on his government to feed him?

Oooh... right in the nuts! Ya, you right in your own!

eNtRopY

Funny you should mention the taxpayers purse, as apparently, what I accoplished for the Canadian Government saved the Canadian Taxpayer ~$40,000,000.00

Got any accomplishments, in your life, that match that?

(About one week of my time actually, ~48 hours to do that.....fourty MILLION DOLLARS!)

It is the accreditation of that that I am being robbed of, that is what I face as a problem. (and the little 'utterings' from youse boys)

And it isn't the government that feeds the homeless, it's volonteers who care.

[eNtRopY]

Originally posted by Mr. Robin Parsons
Funny you should mention the taxpayers purse, as apparently, what I accoplished for the Canadian Government [b]saved the Canadian Taxpayer ~$40,000,000.00

* cough * Liar!

And it isn't the government that feeds the homeless, it's volonteers who care.

Okay Scarlet O'Hare, you just keep relying on the kindness of strangers while telling yourself that such lack of responsibility doesn't detract from your manliness.

eNtRopY

[Andy]

Funny you should mention the taxpayers purse, as apparently, what I accoplished for the Canadian Government saved the Canadian Taxpayer ~$40,000,000.00

Just who are you trying to kid? If you could save the canadian governement that much money wouldnt other governments be trying to hire you to save them money?

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

Originally posted by eNtRopY
* cough * Liar! (Ahhh, once again, eNtRopY..sees himself!)
Okay Scarlet O'Hare, you just keep relying on the kindness of strangers while telling yourself that such lack of responsibility doesn't detract from your manliness.
eNtRopY

Actually, it is assitive of that, such that I can still persue the responcible parties.

Originally posted by andy
Just who are you trying to kid? (No one, "kiddo") If you could save the Canadian governement that much money wouldnt other governments be trying to hire you to save them money?
Andy, the piece of work that I wrote, I ceded the copyrights thereof to a person who could, and to the best of my knowledge, did, use it to assist in the Democratic world's legal community.

The only thing that I (am supposed to) get, from having been the Author of the work, is the accreditation for what it was able to accomplish, the accreditations that it, the work, accrues.

As it was all done privately, (my part of it was not "in/on the news" persay) the Government of Canada has a legally binding obligation to respond to me, for having done it. They have not, to this date, performed there legal obligation(s). Simple as that.

[eNtRopY]

Originally posted by Mr. Robin Parsons
Actually, it is assitive of that, such that I can still persue the responcible parties.

So you're saying you look for free handouts? Yeah, somehow I don't think that makes you any more responsible. M'kay Scarlet?

eNtRopY

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

Originally posted by eNtRopY
So you're saying you look for free handouts? Yeah, somehow I don't think that makes you any more responsible. M'kay Scarlet?

eNtRopY
NO!, I am NOT saying that, you are.

Mentor. please lock out the thread as this clearly is no longer about the topic I started, but has digressed to nothing but the same old attack by entropy and his henceboy(s).

Entropy, having read a little bit about your attitude towards women, you are gonna get yours, what you deserve, one day, God Willing I will assure/Gaurantee you of that!

BYE!

[eNtRopY]

Requesting a thread lock and conveniently changing the subject? Sounds like Mr. Robin Parsons knows he is defeated.

eNtRopY

[Zero]

Entropy, you are really close to getting yourself booted right off PF.