View Full Version : Magnetic Monopole
robert j. kolker
Sep25-04, 05:01 AM
<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','toolbar=no, location=no,scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no ,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usenet ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>How much disruption or inconvenience would mainline physics theories\nsuffer if a magnetic monopole were found. GTR would not be impacted.\nWhat of the quantum type theories?\n\nBob Kolker\n\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form"> View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky>How much disruption or inconvenience would mainline physics theories
suffer if a magnetic monopole were found. GTR would not be impacted.
What of the quantum type theories?
Bob Kolker
<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','toolbar=no, location=no,scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no ,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usenet ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>why would gtr be impacted?\n\n"robert j. kolker" <nowhere@nowhere.net> wrote in message\nnews:2rjo3nF1bfevoU1@uni-berlin.de...\n> How much disruption or inconvenience would mainline physics theories\n> suffer if a magnetic monopole were found. GTR would not be impacted.\n> What of the quantum type theories?\n>\n> Bob Kolker\n>\n\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form"> View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky>why would gtr be impacted?
"robert j. kolker" <nowhere@nowhere.net> wrote in message
news:2rjo3nF1bfevoU1@uni-berlin.de...
> How much disruption or inconvenience would mainline physics theories
> suffer if a magnetic monopole were found. GTR would not be impacted.
> What of the quantum type theories?
>
> Bob Kolker
>
<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','toolbar=no, location=no,scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no ,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usenet ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>robert j. kolker wrote:\n> How much disruption or inconvenience would mainline physics theories\n> suffer if a magnetic monopole were found. GTR would not be impacted.\n\nIndeed ?\nIf one would _really_ find a magnetic monopole, that would disprove\nall theories based on tensor equations, because these forbid magnetic\nmonopoles. But I do not even expect such event, because the results\nfrom numerical simulations according to the Einstein-Maxwell equations\n(where magnetic monopoles do not appear) well support the geometric\ntheory (http://home.t-online.de/home/Ulrich.Bruchholz/ ).\n\n> What of the quantum type theories?\n\nDid such not predict magnetic monopoles ?\n\nUlrich\n\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form"> View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky>robert j. kolker wrote:
> How much disruption or inconvenience would mainline physics theories
> suffer if a magnetic monopole were found. GTR would not be impacted.
Indeed ?
If one would _really_ find a magnetic monopole, that would disprove
all theories based on tensor equations, because these forbid magnetic
monopoles. But I do not even expect such event, because the results
from numerical simulations according to the Einstein-Maxwell equations
(where magnetic monopoles do not appear) well support the geometric
theory (http://home.t-online.de/home/Ulrich.Bruchholz/ ).
> What of the quantum type theories?
Did such not predict magnetic monopoles ?
Ulrich
greywolf42
Sep27-04, 03:31 AM
<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','toolbar=no, location=no,scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no ,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usenet ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>\n"robert j. kolker" <nowhere@nowhere.net> wrote in message\nnews:2rjo3nF1bfevoU1@uni-berlin.de...\n> How much disruption or inconvenience would mainline physics theories\n> suffer if a magnetic monopole were found. GTR would not be impacted.\n> What of the quantum type theories?\n\nWhy are you asking, Robert? Magnetic monopoles have been looked for\n(for philosophical and theoretical reasons), yet none have ever been found.\nWhat use do you see for speculation on what would have to change to\nincorporate nonexistent entities?\n\n--\ngreywolf42\nubi dubium ibi libertas\n{remove planet for e-mail}\n\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form"> View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky>"robert j. kolker" <nowhere@nowhere.net> wrote in message
news:2rjo3nF1bfevoU1@uni-berlin.de...
> How much disruption or inconvenience would mainline physics theories
> suffer if a magnetic monopole were found. GTR would not be impacted.
> What of the quantum type theories?
Why are you asking, Robert? Magnetic monopoles have been looked for
(for philosophical and theoretical reasons), yet none have ever been found.
What use do you see for speculation on what would have to change to
incorporate nonexistent entities?
--
greywolf42
ubi dubium ibi libertas
{remove planet for e-mail}
robert j. kolker
Sep27-04, 03:31 AM
<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','toolbar=no, location=no,scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no ,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usenet ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>\n\n\nDave wrote:\n\n> why would gtr be impacted?\n\nI specifically said that it would not be impacted.\n\nBob Kolker\n\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form"> View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky>Dave wrote:
> why would gtr be impacted?
I specifically said that it would not be impacted.
Bob Kolker
Rob Woodside
Sep28-04, 10:20 AM
<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','toolbar=no, location=no,scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no ,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usenet ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>\n"robert j. kolker" <nowhere@nowhere.net> wrote in message news:<2rjo3nF1bfevoU1@uni-berlin.de>...\n> How much disruption or inconvenience would mainline physics theories\n> suffer if a magnetic monopole were found. GTR would not be impacted.\n> What of the quantum type theories?\n>\n> Bob Kolker\n\nGood Question. Classically the monopoles existence hinges on whether\nor not the vector potential is global or only local. How this\ntopological difference works in Quantum feild theory where the vector\npotential is of paramount importance is not clear to me.\n\nAlthough the Einstein equations are not impacted, the Maxwell\nequations (F = dA, d*F = *Je) certainly are. A duality rotation of a\nquarter turn produces a field FD = *F, interchanging the roles of F\nand *F. So the field equations, no longer Maxwell\'s, now become dFD =\n*Je and *FD = -dA and the Je is now identified as the magnetic current\nJm.\n\nThe Maxwell stress-energy tensor for the electromagnetic field is\ninvariant under all duality rotations. Identifying the matter tensor\nof the electric current as that of a magnetic current, then leaves the\ntotal stress-energy tensor invariant under a quarter turn with duality\nrotation. Thus any Einstien-Maxwell solution can be written as a\nmagnetic current solution to the Einstein-FD equations. This means\nthat the geometry is invariant under a quarter turn of the field, with\nelectric and magnetic current interchange;\nand the caveate that the "electromagnetic field equations" are\ndifferent.\n\nAs an example, topological electric charges arise when *F is closed\n(d*F = 0) and NOT exact (*F = dB, B is a global one form). So\nelectrically charged black holes obey the Maxwell equations F = dA,\nd*F = 0 and magnetically charged black holes obey dFD = 0, FD = -dA\nand both have the same geometry.\n\nThis has a nasty consequence for null electromagnetic fields where\nduality rotations do give rise to NEW solutions of Maxwell\'s equations\nwhich alter the polarization or phase of the Maxwell field. As the\nEinstein-Maxwell equations are currently used this phase or\npolarization information is not passed on to the geometry!!!\n\nThe conformal tensor describes gravitational waves along with their\nphase and polarization. A Maxwell field with a Maxwell stress-energy\ntensor has a piece of curvature quadratic in the field, i.e. (FF +\n*F*F)/2, by Einstein\'s equations. So by the full second Bianchi\nidentities there should also be a piece of the Conformal tensor\nquadratic in the field. It is straight forward to find the piece of FF\nthat has the same symmetries as the conformal tensor, but the overall\nconstant is undetermined. Checking examples, it has one value for\nMaxwell fields, the opposite value for FD fields and of course zero\nfor conformally flat solutions. Picking this constant gives the global\ncoupling between the Maxwell field and the curvature. Specifying a\npiece of the CURVATURE (having a trace as above and a traceless piece\nwith the right coupling) explit in F and specifying the divergence of\nthis piece of curvature in terms of current and derivatives of the\nfield, allows the derivation of Maxwell\'s equations from these\ncurvature assumptions alone. This is more restrictive than the usual\napplication of the Einstein-Maxwell equations as that makes no demand\non the conformal piece of the curvature. Currently the conformal\ntensor is what ever it needs must be, including conformally flat. In\nthe curvature approach, the Einstein-Maxwell equations are required to\nproduce a conformal tensor that contains the right coupling between\nfield and curvature. If this restriction removes any physical\nsolutions then it must be altered or abandoned.\n\nThis is pushing Einstein\'s equations into Curvature. To handle\nmechanics one specifies the traces of cuvature with the usual Einstein\nequations. To handle Maxwell\'s electrodynamics one specifies the\ntraces of curvature as well as a traceless piece. To handle\ngravitational radiation surely one must make demands on the traceless\nbits of curvature.\n\nIn the quest for quantum gravity it may well be that both the\nclassical and quantum sides require radical changes.\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form"> View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky>"robert j. kolker" <nowhere@nowhere.net> wrote in message news:<2rjo3nF1bfevoU1@uni-berlin.de>...
> How much disruption or inconvenience would mainline physics theories
> suffer if a magnetic monopole were found. GTR would not be impacted.
> What of the quantum type theories?
>
> Bob Kolker
Good Question. Classically the monopoles existence hinges on whether
or not the vector potential is global or only local. How this
topological difference works in Quantum feild theory where the vector
potential is of paramount importance is not clear to me.
Although the Einstein equations are not impacted, the Maxwell
equations (F = dA, d*F = *Je) certainly are. A duality rotation of a
quarter turn produces a field FD = *F, interchanging the roles of F
and *F. So the field equations, no longer Maxwell's, now become dFD =
*Je and *FD = -dA and the Je is now identified as the magnetic current
Jm.
The Maxwell stress-energy tensor for the electromagnetic field is
invariant under all duality rotations. Identifying the matter tensor
of the electric current as that of a magnetic current, then leaves the
total stress-energy tensor invariant under a quarter turn with duality
rotation. Thus any Einstien-Maxwell solution can be written as a
magnetic current solution to the Einstein-FD equations. This means
that the geometry is invariant under a quarter turn of the field, with
electric and magnetic current interchange;
and the caveate that the "electromagnetic field equations" are
different.
As an example, topological electric charges arise when *F is closed
(d*F = 0) and NOT exact (*F = dB, B is a global one form). So
electrically charged black holes obey the Maxwell equations F = dA,
d*F = and magnetically charged black holes obey dFD = 0, FD = -dA
and both have the same geometry.
This has a nasty consequence for null electromagnetic fields where
duality rotations do give rise to NEW solutions of Maxwell's equations
which alter the polarization or phase of the Maxwell field. As the
Einstein-Maxwell equations are currently used this phase or
polarization information is not passed on to the geometry!!!
The conformal tensor describes gravitational waves along with their
phase and polarization. A Maxwell field with a Maxwell stress-energy
tensor has a piece of curvature quadratic in the field, i.e. (FF +*F*F)/2, by Einstein's equations. So by the full second Bianchi
identities there should also be a piece of the Conformal tensor
quadratic in the field. It is straight forward to find the piece of FF
that has the same symmetries as the conformal tensor, but the overall
constant is undetermined. Checking examples, it has one value for
Maxwell fields, the opposite value for FD fields and of course zero
for conformally flat solutions. Picking this constant gives the global
coupling between the Maxwell field and the curvature. Specifying a
piece of the CURVATURE (having a trace as above and a traceless piece
with the right coupling) explit in F and specifying the divergence of
this piece of curvature in terms of current and derivatives of the
field, allows the derivation of Maxwell's equations from these
curvature assumptions alone. This is more restrictive than the usual
application of the Einstein-Maxwell equations as that makes no demand
on the conformal piece of the curvature. Currently the conformal
tensor is what ever it needs must be, including conformally flat. In
the curvature approach, the Einstein-Maxwell equations are required to
produce a conformal tensor that contains the right coupling between
field and curvature. If this restriction removes any physical
solutions then it must be altered or abandoned.
This is pushing Einstein's equations into Curvature. To handle
mechanics one specifies the traces of cuvature with the usual Einstein
equations. To handle Maxwell's electrodynamics one specifies the
traces of curvature as well as a traceless piece. To handle
gravitational radiation surely one must make demands on the traceless
bits of curvature.
In the quest for quantum gravity it may well be that both the
classical and quantum sides require radical changes.
vBulletin® v3.8.7, Copyright ©2000-2012, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.