Understanding the Ratio of r Motion to Revolution Periods - Clarification Needed

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the interpretation of the ratio of the periods of radial motion and revolution in the context of a particle moving under a central force. Participants are seeking clarification on whether the ratio should be expressed as \( \frac{T_r}{T_\theta} \) or \( \frac{T_\theta}{T_r} \), and how this affects the characterization of the orbit as a simple closed curve.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that the ratio of the periods should be \( \frac{T_r}{T_\theta} \) based on the wording, but expresses uncertainty due to mathematical reasoning that supports the opposite interpretation.
  • Another participant provides an analogy to clarify the concept of ratios, indicating that the ratio \( \frac{a}{b} \) corresponds to the statement "the ratio of a to b is x:y".
  • A participant asserts that if the interpretation is indeed \( \frac{T_r}{T_\theta} \), then a statement regarding the orbit being a simple closed curve may be incorrect, providing a counterexample to illustrate potential intersections in the orbit.
  • The same participant questions whether there is an error in the book based on their reasoning about the implications of the ratio.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the correct interpretation of the ratio. There are competing views regarding the implications of each interpretation on the nature of the orbit.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the definitions and implications of the ratios, and there are unresolved mathematical considerations regarding the conditions under which orbits are classified as simple closed curves.

quasar987
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Hi.

When you say "The ratio of the period of the r motion to the period of revolution", does it mean

[tex]\frac{T_r}{T_\theta}[/tex]

or

[tex]\frac{T_\theta}{T_r}[/tex]

?

Judging by the words, I would say it's the first one, but I have many mathmatical reasons to think it it's the second one. I would like a confirmation that it means the second one. Thanks a lot.
 
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Think of it this way. Take the general statement "the ratio of a to b is x:y". This means [itex]a:b=x:y[/itex], so [itex]\frac{a}{b}=\frac{x}{y}[/itex]. This makes sense. Say the ratio is 4. You can convert this to ratio form: [itex]4:1[/itex]. If [itex]a:b[/itex] is [itex]4:1[/itex], then if [itex]b=1[/itex], [itex]a=4[/itex], and if [itex]b=2[/itex], [itex]a=8[/itex], and so on...meaning that in general [itex]a=4b[/itex], so [itex]\frac{a}{b}=\frac{4}{1}[/itex]. Hope this is clear.
 
Then there's an error in the book!
 
Simple question of physics

Given that the above sentence means in fact

[tex]\frac{T_r}{T_\theta}[/tex]

Does the following sentence make sense (in the context of a particle moving under a central (radial) force with angular momentum non nul)

"If the ratio of the period of the r motion to the period of revolution is an integer, the orbit is a simple closed curved."

Consider the following simple counter exemple:

[tex]\frac{T_r}{T_\theta}=2 \Leftrightarrow T_r=2T_\theta \ (1:2)[/tex]

Meaning after the particle has covered 4 pi rad around the center of force, the radial oscillation has completed one period. How can that make for a simple closed curve? There will necessarily be an intersection. Whereas if it means the opposite,

[tex]\frac{T_\theta}{T_r}=2[/tex]

the curve is closed and much simpler has it does not intersect with itself.


So is it me or there's an error in the book?
 

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