Can Gravity be proved? [Archive]

R. Henry Nigl

Oct27-04, 10:58 AM

<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','toolbar=no, location=no,scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no ,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usenet ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>Can gravity be proved mathematically as an \'attractive\' force?\n\nR. Henry Nigl\n\n\n\n\n----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----\nhttp://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups\n---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---\n\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form">  View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky>Can gravity be proved mathematically as an 'attractive' force?

R. Henry Nigl

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Uncle Al

Oct28-04, 01:29 PM

<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','toolbar=no, location=no,scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no ,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usenet ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>\n\n\n\n"R. Henry Nigl" wrote:\n>\n> Can gravity be proved mathematically as an \'attractive\' force?\n\nSince metric gravitation is not a force, no.\n\n--\nUncle Al\nhttp://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/\n(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)\nhttp://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz.pdf\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form">  View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky>"R. Henry Nigl" wrote:
>
> Can gravity be proved mathematically as an 'attractive' force?

Since metric gravitation is not a force, no.

--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz.pdf

robert j. kolker

Nov3-04, 09:37 AM

<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','toolbar=no, location=no,scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no ,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usenet ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>R. Henry Nigl wrote:\n\n> Can gravity be proved mathematically as an \'attractive\' force?\n\nDo you mean, can gravity be modelled as an attractive force. Yes.\nNewtons theory of gravitation does that.\n\nSince there is a model of gravitation that characterizes the motions as\ngeodisical motions gravitation can also be modelled geometrically.\n\nWhatever fits the facts and makes good predictions is perfectly o.k.\n\nBob Kolker\n\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form">  View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky>R. Henry Nigl wrote:

> Can gravity be proved mathematically as an 'attractive' force?

Do you mean, can gravity be modelled as an attractive force. Yes.
Newtons theory of gravitation does that.

Since there is a model of gravitation that characterizes the motions as
geodisical motions gravitation can also be modelled geometrically.

Whatever fits the facts and makes good predictions is perfectly o.k.

Bob Kolker

Harry

Nov4-04, 03:38 AM

<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','toolbar=no, location=no,scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no ,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usenet ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>"R. Henry Nigl" <rhnl@exoptica.com> wrote in message\nnews:417e9d5e_4@127.0.0.1...\n> Can gravity be proved mathematically as an \'attractive\' force?\n>\n> R. Henry Nigl\n\nThere is of course no doubt that gravity exists - we observe it every\nsecond - and Newton\'s F ~ mm\'/r^2 is obviously consistent with the\n\'attractive force\' view and very successful. Nevertheless, with mathematics\none can\'t prove the correctness of a concept of physics or of the\ndefinitions of \'attractive\' and \'force\'.\n\nHarald\n\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form">  View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky>"R. Henry Nigl" <rhnl@exoptica.com> wrote in message
news:417e9d5e_4@127.0.0.1...
> Can gravity be proved mathematically as an 'attractive' force?
>
> R. Henry Nigl

There is of course no doubt that gravity exists - we observe it every
second - and Newton's F ~ mm'/r^2 is obviously consistent with the
'attractive force' view and very successful. Nevertheless, with mathematics
one can't prove the correctness of a concept of physics or of the
definitions of 'attractive' and 'force'.

Harald

Bob Day

Nov5-04, 08:20 AM

<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','toolbar=no, location=no,scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no ,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usenet ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>\n"R. Henry Nigl" <rhnl@exoptica.com> wrote in message\nnews:417e9d5e_4@127.0.0.1...\n> Can gravity be proved mathematically as an \'attractive\' force?\n>\n> R. Henry Nigl\n>\n\nMathematics only models things; it doesn\'t prove\nthings (except for other things in math).\n\n-- Bob Day\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form">  View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky>"R. Henry Nigl" <rhnl@exoptica.com> wrote in message
news:417e9d5e_4@127.0.0.1...
> Can gravity be proved mathematically as an 'attractive' force?
>
> R. Henry Nigl
>

Mathematics only models things; it doesn't prove
things (except for other things in math).

-- Bob Day

KingNothing

Nov25-04, 03:41 AM

<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','toolbar=no, location=no,scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no ,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usenet ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>To answer the question maybe a bit more directly, yes, it can. There\n-are- in existence instruments precise enough to measure the attractive\nforce between two objects.\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------\nThis post submitted through the LaTeX-enabled physicsforums.com\nTo view this post with LaTeX images:\nhttp://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=49937#post355508\n\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form">  View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky>To answer the question maybe a bit more directly, yes, it can. There
-are- in existence instruments precise enough to measure the attractive
force between two objects.

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mathman

Nov25-04, 03:42 AM

<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','toolbar=no, location=no,scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no ,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usenet ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>The basis for any physics theory is what nature says. Mathematics can\nbe used to derive results, but it has to start with physical\nassumptions. In particular, you need a physical basis to get to the\nlaws of gravity, whether Newton\'s or Einstein\'s. Once you have a\nphysical basis, you can make predictions. If the predictions don\'t\nagree with nature, then the theory is wrong, no matter how good the\nmath is.\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------\nThis post submitted through the LaTeX-enabled physicsforums.com\nTo view this post with LaTeX images:\nhttp://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=49937#post355023\n\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form">  View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky>The basis for any physics theory is what nature says. Mathematics can
be used to derive results, but it has to start with physical
assumptions. In particular, you need a physical basis to get to the
laws of gravity, whether Newton's or Einstein's. Once you have a
physical basis, you can make predictions. If the predictions don't
agree with nature, then the theory is wrong, no matter how good the
math is.

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