quantizing a gravitational wave [Archive]

alistair

Nov5-04, 06:11 AM

<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','toolbar=no, location=no,scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no ,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usenet ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>Einstein said that you can\'t put a gravitational wave in a box - with\nreference to quantizing gravity.But an electromagnetic wave can be\nquantized in this way.\nGravitational waves have a probability of 100 per cent of passing\nthrough\na potential barrier.An electromagnetic wave has a non-zero probability\nof doing so.Can\'t we say that a gravitational wave is like an\nelectromagnetic wave\nin a very low potential barrier, and quantize this electromagnetic\nwave?\n\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form">  View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky>Einstein said that you can't put a gravitational wave in a box - with
reference to quantizing gravity.But an electromagnetic wave can be
quantized in this way.
Gravitational waves have a probability of 100 per cent of passing
through
a potential barrier.An electromagnetic wave has a non-zero probability
of doing so.Can't we say that a gravitational wave is like an
electromagnetic wave
in a very low potential barrier, and quantize this electromagnetic
wave?

Igor Khavkine

Nov5-04, 08:20 AM

<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','toolbar=no, location=no,scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no ,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usenet ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>\n\nOn Fri, 05 Nov 2004 12:11:01 +0000, alistair wrote:\n\n> Einstein said that you can\'t put a gravitational wave in a box - with\n> reference to quantizing gravity.But an electromagnetic wave can be\n> quantized in this way.\n> Gravitational waves have a probability of 100 per cent of passing through\n> a potential barrier.An electromagnetic wave has a non-zero probability of\n> doing so.Can\'t we say that a gravitational wave is like an electromagnetic\n> wave\n> in a very low potential barrier, and quantize this electromagnetic wave?\n\nWhat do you mean by a potential barrier for a graviton, and what is the\nbasis of your claim about it? All free (non-interacting, linear) field\ntheories are similar and can be quantized in a similar way. In fact\ngravity can be quantized as an effective theory with explicit cutoffs\n(i.e. in a box):\n\nQuantum Gravity in Everyday Life: General Relativity\nas an Effective Field Theory, Cliff P. Burgess\n\nhttp://relativity.livingreviews.org/Articles/lrr-2004-5/index.html\n\nIgor\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form">  View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky>On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 12:11:01 +0000, alistair wrote:

> Einstein said that you can't put a gravitational wave in a box - with
> reference to quantizing gravity.But an electromagnetic wave can be
> quantized in this way.
> Gravitational waves have a probability of 100 per cent of passing through
> a potential barrier.An electromagnetic wave has a non-zero probability of
> doing so.Can't we say that a gravitational wave is like an electromagnetic
> wave
> in a very low potential barrier, and quantize this electromagnetic wave?

What do you mean by a potential barrier for a graviton, and what is the
basis of your claim about it? All free (non-interacting, linear) field
theories are similar and can be quantized in a similar way. In fact
gravity can be quantized as an effective theory with explicit cutoffs
(i.e. in a box):

Quantum Gravity in Everyday Life: General Relativity
as an Effective Field Theory, Cliff P. Burgess

http://relativity.livingreviews.org/Articles/lrr-2004-5/index.html

Igor

Rothiemurchus

Nov25-04, 03:40 AM

<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','toolbar=no, location=no,scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no ,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usenet ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>>What do you mean by a potential barrier for a graviton, and what is\nthe\n>basis of your claim about it? All free (non-interacting, linear)\nfield\n>theories are similar and can be quantized in a similar way. In fact\n>gravity can be quantized as an effective theory with explicit cutoffs\n>(i.e. in a box):\n\n>Quantum Gravity in Everyday Life: General Relativity\n>as an Effective Field Theory, Cliff P. Burgess\n\n>http://relativity.livingreviews.org...04-5/index.html\n\n>Igor\n\nI am saying that space-time is made of electric charges (equal numbers\nof positive and negative) that make it behave like a rubber sheet when\nit is compressed or put under tension.The spin 2 gravitational force\ncarrier can be two electromagnetic spin 1 photons bound together - in\nsci.physics.research Arnold Neumaier wrote in response to my question\n"can spin 2 particles be , in principle, electromagnetic in nature"\n\n>If one would add suitable interactions to QED, there probably could\nbe\n>a bound state of two photons, which could have spin 0, 1, or 2,\n>depending on the way it is composed of the photons.\n\n>So, the answer is yes if one is prepared to modify QED.\n>Within the standard model, I believe that there are no such bound\nstates.\n\nBut for space-time and the gravitational force carrier to be\nelectromagnetic in nature then electrically neutral particles have to\nbe made from positive and negative electric charges e.g\nneutrinos.Difficult to prove! But an idea that is appealing because of\nits simplicity and because of the direct link between gravity and\nelectricity.\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------\nThis post submitted through the LaTeX-enabled physicsforums.com\nTo view this post with LaTeX images:\nhttp://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=51514#post363849\n\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form">  View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky>>What do you mean by a potential barrier for a graviton, and what is
the
>basis of your claim about it? All free (non-interacting, linear)
field
>theories are similar and can be quantized in a similar way. In fact
>gravity can be quantized as an effective theory with explicit cutoffs
>(i.e. in a box):

>Quantum Gravity in Everyday Life: General Relativity
>as an Effective Field Theory, Cliff P. Burgess

>http://relativity.livingreviews.org...04-5/index.html

>Igor

I am saying that space-time is made of electric charges (equal numbers
of positive and negative) that make it behave like a rubber sheet when
it is compressed or put under tension.The spin 2 gravitational force
carrier can be two electromagnetic spin 1 photons bound together - in
sci.physics.research Arnold Neumaier wrote in response to my question
"can spin 2 particles be , in principle, electromagnetic in nature"

>If one would add suitable interactions to QED, there probably could
be
>a bound state of two photons, which could have spin 0, 1, or 2,
>depending on the way it is composed of the photons.

>So, the answer is yes if one is prepared to modify QED.
>Within the standard model, I believe that there are no such bound
states.

But for space-time and the gravitational force carrier to be
electromagnetic in nature then electrically neutral particles have to
be made from positive and negative electric charges e.g
neutrinos.Difficult to prove! But an idea that is appealing because of
its simplicity and because of the direct link between gravity and
electricity.

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To view this post with LaTeX images:
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