Remembering Rachel Corrie: Bravely Standing Up for Justice

[Adam]

Rachel Corrie was a girl who found a cause and was brave enough to sacrifice her life to it. She was trying to prevent the Israeli military destroying the homes of Palestinian civilians, and they ran over her with a bulldozer. Here you can read her first-hand reports of what she witnessed in Israel.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,916246,00.html

 

[Zero]

Well, Israeli troops have a long history of violence towards anyone who is not Israeli. It is a result, I think, of living uinder siege for so long, that they have been forced into a 'practical sociopathy', in which anyone who is not Israeli, or a supporter of Israel, isn't actually human.

 

[russ_watters]

I guess her mother forgot to teach her that standing in front of heavy machinery is inherrently dangerous.

I do feel for her parents, but she was a stupid, stupid girl.

 

[Zero]

Originally posted by russ_watters
I guess her mother forgot to teach her that standing in front of heavy machinery is inherrently dangerous.

I do feel for her parents, but she was a stupid, stupid girl.

Yep, standing up for anything but cash is stupid, stupid.

 

[kat]

Originally posted by Zero
Yep, standing up for anything but cash is stupid, stupid.

Yeah, I have to agree, she should be martyred for standing up and protecting those tunnels used for smuggling arms and drugs. Oh, wait, she already was martyred in the Name of Allah, the Merciful, the Most Merciful! “Bismillah arahman araheem”

 

[Zero]

Originally posted by kat
Yeah, I have to agree, she should be martyred for standing up and protecting those tunnels used for smuggling arms and drugs. Oh, wait, she already was martyred in the Name of Allah, the Merciful, the Most Merciful! “Bismillah arahman araheem”

I'd love to see your source. I can already see your anti-Islamic bias.

 

[jcsd]

Originally posted by kat
Yeah, I have to agree, she should be martyred for standing up and protecting those tunnels used for smuggling arms and drugs. Oh, wait, she already was martyred in the Name of Allah, the Merciful, the Most Merciful! ?Bismillah arahman araheem?

Oh but the oringal reason for the demolition was given as that they needed to clear a line of site between the Egyptian border and an Israeli watchtower and that house was only one in a 100m strip that was being destroyed. Also you'll note that no tunnel was found.

 

[Zero]

Originally posted by jcsd
Oh but the oringal reason for the demolition was given as that they needed to clear a line of site between the Egyptian border and an Israeli watchtower and that house was only one in a 100m strip that was being destroyed. Also you'll note that no tunnel was found.

One of the biggest problems I see in Israeli-Palestinian confrontations is that the Israelis can shoot anyone over the age of 14, and label them a 'combatant', and there is no one who checks behind that.

 

[kyleb]

and i can't rightly see how she would be "martyred in the Name of Allah" when she was not even a Muslum.

 

[jcsd]

There are human rights groups like B'Tselem that attempt to document all the deaths, the problem is that in general this doesn't filter through to the American public and in general they are ignorant of the realities on the ground there.

 

[Zero]

Originally posted by kyleb
and i can't rightly see how she would be "martyred in the Name of Allah" when she was not even a Muslum.

Well, there are some people who feel that if you don't support Israel's right bulldoze people's homes, and the people too if they are stupid enough to stand up for themselves, then you are an anti-semitic millitant Muslim.
You know, the way Bush and Co. call anyone who doesn't agree with him 100% a traitor.

 

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

Would like to know exactly how someone got run over by a bulldozer, not like you can't see it coming, not like the operator wouldn't have known that someone was standing there, or that they were crushing them.

I have driven them so I have some idea of the lines of site, anyone know what make, or model, it was?? cause you got to be "pretty stupid", and/or reckless, to run someone over with one.

 

[Zero]

Originally posted by Mr. Robin Parsons
Would like to know exactly how someone got run over by a bulldozer, not like you can't see it coming, not like the operator wouldn't have known that someone was standing there, or that they were crushing them.

I have driven them so I have some idea of the lines of site, anyone know what make, or model, it was?? cause you got to be "pretty stupid", and/or reckless, to run someone over with one.

I get the feeling that the Israelis and Palestinians have something in common; there are some in each group that simply do not value the lives of others. The only difference is, Israelis do value their own lives pretty highly...probably because they have taken nearly everything that the Palestinians had.

 

[kat]

Originally posted by kyleb
and i can't rightly see how she would be "martyred in the Name of Allah" when she was not even a Muslum.

Name: Rachel Corrie. Nationality: A US citizen, peace activist. Place in history: Martyred on March 17, 2003. Where in Rafah refugee camp, occupied Palestine. Why and who murdered her? Zionist Israelis killed her by running over her when she stood before them to prevent them from demolishing a Palestinian refugee home. What will the Bush administration do? Nothing. When it comes to Israeli war crimes, American politicians are blind, deaf, and dump. RACHEL CORRIE SUFFERED LIKE THE PEOPLE SHE LOVED. SHE DIED AMONG THEM. SHE IS ONE OF THEM. SHE IS A PALESTINIAN MARTYR.- Khalil Arafeh, 3/17/03

 

[kyleb]

"facts" turring some like some comment about her dieing while trying to stop pallistine homes from being bulldozed into being a martyr "in Name of Allah" eh? i would hate to see what you consider propaganda.

as for your question Mr. Robin Parsons, it was a pretty big bulldozer:

http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article1248.shtml

 

[kat]

Originally posted by kyleb
"facts" turring some like some comment about her dieing while trying to stop pallistine homes from being bulldozed into being a martyr "in Name of Allah" eh? i would hate to see what you consider propaganda.

as for your question Mr. Robin Parsons, it was a pretty big bulldozer:

http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article1248.shtml

I'm sorry, exactly what about Rachel being martyred in the Palistinian Martyr parade is not fact in your view? And exactly what about "In the name of Allah" don't you believe is fact when it comes to being martyred? do you think it was in the name of jesus? eh?

 

[Zero]

Originally posted by kat
Then there are some people who stick to the facts and don't get stuck in their own little indymedia up in the air fantasy's.

I'd love to know your sources...still waiting to know where you dug up that 'Palestinain tunnel' reference. Oh, and the arms and drugs thing would be interesting too...I haven't seen Palestinian drug lords on TV driving in shiny Cadillacs.

 

[Zero]

Originally posted by kat
I'm sorry, exactly what about Rachel being martyred in the Palistinian Martyr parade is not fact in your view? And exactly what about "In the name of Allah" don't you believe is fact when it comes to being martyred? do you think it was in the name of jesus? eh?

You imply that her goal was to die for propaganda purposes...

 

[kyleb]

Originally posted by kat
I'm sorry, exactly what about Rachel being martyred in the Palistinian Martyr parade is not fact in your view?

no I'm sorry, i didn't make any such claim.

Originally posted by kat
And exactly what about "In the name of Allah" don't you believe is fact when it comes to being martyred?

yet only religious zealots get martyred in the name of their god and sense the girl was not even a Muslim i hardly see how your claims are founded.

Originally posted by kat
do you think it was in the name of jesus? eh?

no i don't, and i don't understand your line of questioning here either. are you saying that you believe it has to be one or the other?

 

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

Originally posted by kyleb
"facts" turring some like some comment about her dieing while trying to stop pallistine homes from being bulldozed into being a martyr "in Name of Allah" eh? i would hate to see what you consider propaganda.
as for your question Mr. Robin Parsons, it was a pretty big bulldozer:

Thanks! good reference, and clearly, the driver acted willingly/negligently/purposefully/and murderously
Sick individual. (not a nice way to die, compressed, I suspect)

 

[kat]

Originally posted by Zero
You imply that her goal was to die for propaganda purposes...

UH, no I made no statements about her having any goal to die. I did state she was martyred, which is fact.

One of the biggest problems I see in Israeli-Palestinian confrontations is that the Israelis can shoot anyone over the age of 14, and label them a 'combatant', and there is no one who checks behind that.

I don't know why you think no one checks behind that, B'Tselem, as mentioned by jsccd does attempt to check. Although they are know to be erroneous e.g. listing as dead for months a boy who was living, listing as killed by Israel for months a child who had already been shown to have been shot by palstinians, listing as Palestinian and beaten by Israeli's an Israeli boy who was dragged and beaten by Palestinians. But, overall they do fairly well considering the huge constraints on getting information out of palestine that is not considered subversive and therefor punishable by death..doh.
As for 14 year old boys, I will tell you that every Arab male I know from this area including my husband was given a rifle or weapon at the age of 14, and in fact in my husbands case was given a rifle and the responsibility of revenging his brothers death. So maybe, you're missing something about the traditions.
It's not like it hasn't been reported.

The Palestinian Authority has provided children with military training. The New York Times reports that 25,000 children were trained in the summer 2000 in PA camps in the use of firearms, the making of Molotov cocktails, the methods of kidnapping Israeli leaders, and conducting ambushes. (New York Times - Aug. 3, 2000)

It's known history that in 1982 PLO ordered all boys aged 12 and up who were children of men in the Fatah units served in there fathers company, each child was paid something less then 100 dollares a month.

"At least 40 children from the city of Raphah have lost their arms as a result of the explosions of pipe bombs. They received five Israeli shekels (about one U.S. dollar) for throwing them."(jordanian newspaper, Abu Mazen 2000

I can already see your anti-Islamic bias.

This is ripe coming from you, one of the most rabidly anti-any religious biased person I have yet to see on these forums. At any rate, I didn't respond immediately because I did feel I did have to consider if there was some truth to this, as although Islam is my daughters heritage, mine is cathoic and southern baptist. Although, I don't practice any religion and don't consider myself religious there is always the possiblity that I might make religiously biased derogatory replies. I don't think that's this case here, I will admit that I have a strong anti-ism bias, a strong anti-PLO bias, they are murders, scum and the worst abusers of their own people (Arafat and his ilk). They usurp any moderate voices that might be found in palestine often in the most brutal and final manner, they have no intention of ever helping to find peace, and Arafat will never support a state because it is not IN HIS best interest. Peace would rid any need for him and his ilk, and yes I hate them and him with a passion that only a person who has seen the suffering in people they love as a result of his policies can feel. So if there is any doubt in your mind, who or what I am FOR, I am for getting rid of Arafat and his ilk, Hamas, Hezbollah, etc. etc. etc. because until they are gone and the moderate Palestinian voice can be heard there will be no peace for my people, or for Israeli's.
As for your repeat, repeat that I think "Israel can do no wrong" If for once you made FACTUAL based statements against Israeli you find that I would support your statements against any argument, but YOU don't you spout the same propaganda that allow monsters like Arafat and Rantisi to continue to enslave their own people in a way that Israel has never done. When the IDF has palestinian, Israeli Arabs jews kneeling in the square and beheaded for being a moderate voice or assisting in stopping suicide bombers, or for that matter refusing to participate in the military due to conscience as Israeli's have been frequently known to do...BAH! forget it, you really aren't worth the emotionalism this evokes.

As for tunnels and bulldozers a simple search should give you a wealth of information. I received the information I consider reliable from 2 arabs familiar with the area and politics and a member of the IDF.

 

[jcsd]

I don't know why you think no one checks behind that, B'Tselem, as mentioned by jsccd does attempt to check. Although they are know to be erroneous e.g. listing as dead for months a boy who was living, listing as killed by Israel for months a child who had already been shown to have been shot by palstinians, listing as Palestinian and beaten by Israeli's an Israeli boy who was dragged and beaten by Palestinians. But, overall they do fairly well considering the huge constraints on getting information out of palestine that is not considered subversive and therefor punishable by death..doh.

Do you have a cite for any of the garabage that you posted?

1) B'tselem is an Israeli human rights organisation and is the only impartial group that researchs and documents all the deaths documents.

2)'moderates' are not beheaded, if you knew anything about the conflict then you'd know that Fatah have always been the most moderate faction. Collabrators are often lynched or executed though.

3)The fact that you see fit to put Arafat along side the likes of Hamas again shows a fundamental ignorence of the conflict. If you'll remebr Hamas was formed out of an Islamic humanitarian organisation in the eighties and was funded by Israel in an attempt to overthrow Arafat.

I know someone who was out in Rafah when Rachel Corrie died and even saw the bulldozer that killed her (he was attemnding a memorial service at the site where she was killed and the Israel army sensitively sent along the very bulldozer that killed her and drove at the mourners at highspeed before swerving ta the last minute, it appears the driver didn't have any problem seeing that time), the house was later demolished and no tunnels were found.

 

[russ_watters]

Originally posted by Zero
You imply that her goal was to die for propaganda purposes...

I think you interpreted kat's post. Regardless of whether or not she wanted to, the girl IS considered a martyr.

In any case, though she probably didn't intend to die for propaganda purposes, there are many who do.

 

[Dissident Dan]

Originally posted by kat
I'm sorry, exactly what about Rachel being martyred in the Palistinian Martyr parade is not fact in your view? And exactly what about "In the name of Allah" don't you believe is fact when it comes to being martyred? do you think it was in the name of jesus? eh?

"SHE IS A PALESTINIAN MARTYR."

I don't see anything about allah in there. Who says that you have to be a martyr for a deity?

 

[drag]

Originally posted by Dissident Dan
"SHE IS A PALESTINIAN MARTYR."

I don't see anything about allah in there. Who says that
you have to be a martyr for a deity?

In that case I must regretably inform you that you
simply do not know what a Palestinian martyr means
and what a palestinian martyr parade means.

This "honor" is reserved to all palestinians and (arabs
in arab countries) that have lost their lives (wheather
as innocent unintentional victims or armed murderous terrorists)
in the fight against Israel or any non-muslims.

The martyr is declared in Arabic - "Shaid" - a martyr that
died in the name of Allah and for Islam fighting the
enemies of Islam = all non-Muslims - according to the most
popular modern interpretation in most Muslim countries.
The parade includs a prayer in the mosque and a very loud
demonstration in the streets as the grave is carried
(including multiple gunshots in the Palestinian case)
during which the masses are further incited by stories of
the wonderful life alongside the prophet Muhammed in the
afterlife which awaits every Shaid and stories about
the wrath of Allah and sword of Islam destroying all the
non-believeres.

Live long and prosper.

 

[russ_watters]

Originally posted by Dissident Dan
"SHE IS A PALESTINIAN MARTYR."

I don't see anything about allah in there. Who says that you have to be a martyr for a deity?

Just out of curiosity, why does it matter?

 

[kyleb]

why does it matter that her motives are being misrepresented? i suppose it is kinda a respect for truth thing. ;)

 

[russ_watters]

Originally posted by kyleb
why does it matter that her motives are being misrepresented? i suppose it is kinda a respect for truth thing. ;)

Motives are largely irrelevant when someone is being remembered for actions. Read a few medal of honor citations. You may just shake your head and say 'what the hell were they thinking?' It doesn't matter. Their country decided their actions were heroic.

Similarly, it doesn't matter WHY she was standing in front of that buldozer. The Islamic press decided that makes her a martyr.

 

[kyleb]

so using that logic, and knowing that the church of satan supports the vindictive way in which we have retaliated after 9/11; that would mean all the victims of 9/11 were martyrs for satan eh? i think your logic is out of whack Russ.

 

[russ_watters]

Originally posted by kyleb
...the church of satan...

ROFLMAO.

Nice to have you back, kyleb.