Anyone heard of a Voigt predating Lorentz? [Archive]

abstract@bluesharkdesign.com

Dec8-04, 06:54 AM

<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','toolbar=no, location=no,scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no ,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usenet ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>Hi There,\nReading Carver Mead\'s "Collective Electrodynamics" and came across\nreference to W. Voigt having published the Lorentz transformations\nin1889. Lorentz gave Voigt credit in a 1909 paper. I wonder why so few\nhave ever heard of this guy? Does his paper exist onLine?\n\nPHMarkowitz abstract@bluesharkdesign.com\nPS. Looking for a pre-Jackson (easier/ lead-in) book on\nElectrodynamics. I believe I need something that will connect\n(geometrically) the electrons to currents and currents to waves, but\nI\'m open to any good advice.\n\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form">  View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky>Hi There,
Reading Carver Mead's "Collective Electrodynamics" and came across
reference to W. Voigt having published the Lorentz transformations
in1889. Lorentz gave Voigt credit in a 1909 paper. I wonder why so few
have ever heard of this guy? Does his paper exist onLine?

PHMarkowitz abstract@bluesharkdesign.com
PS. Looking for a pre-Jackson (easier/ lead-in) book on
Electrodynamics. I believe I need something that will connect
(geometrically) the electrons to currents and currents to waves, but
I'm open to any good advice.

selfAdjoint

Dec9-04, 02:03 AM

<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','toolbar=no, location=no,scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no ,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usenet ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>Voigt used an ether theory in which the speed of light depended only on\nthe ether, not on the speed of the source. I always compare this to\nthe bow wave of a boat, which propagates based on the charactistic of\nthe water, not on the boat\'s speed. So Voigt had the prerequisite for\nderiving the Lorentz transformations and did so in a limited way. I\nhaven\'t seen his paper but I believe he accounted for the Fitzgerald\ncontraction, and Whittaker says he predicted the (longitudinal)\nrelativistic doppler effect. Whittaker has the whole story; Voigt\'s\npaper went unnoticed when it might have mattered, and then was\nrediscovered after the Einstein revoplution. He was honored for it at\na scientific meeting as a very old man.\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------\nThis post submitted through the LaTeX-enabled physicsforums.com\nTo view this post with LaTeX images:\nhttp://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=55931#post396535\n\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form">  View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky>Voigt used an ether theory in which the speed of light depended only on
the ether, not on the speed of the source. I always compare this to
the bow wave of a boat, which propagates based on the charactistic of
the water, not on the boat's speed. So Voigt had the prerequisite for
deriving the Lorentz transformations and did so in a limited way. I
haven't seen his paper but I believe he accounted for the Fitzgerald
contraction, and Whittaker says he predicted the (longitudinal)
relativistic doppler effect. Whittaker has the whole story; Voigt's
paper went unnoticed when it might have mattered, and then was
rediscovered after the Einstein revoplution. He was honored for it at
a scientific meeting as a very old man.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
This post submitted through the LaTeX-enabled physicsforums.com
To view this post with LaTeX images:
http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=55931#post396535

Harry

Dec9-04, 11:33 AM

<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','toolbar=no, location=no,scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no ,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usenet ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>\n\n\n\n"selfAdjoint" <rthompson10@new.rr.com> wrote in message\nnews:selfAdjoint.1gysyj@physicsforums.com ...\n> Voigt used an ether theory in which the speed of light depended only on\n> the ether, not on the speed of the source.\n\nSorry but it\'s exactly the opposite - but then, you have it from hear-say.\nSee also my earlier reply.\nTo make it very clear:\nMaxwell and Lorentz used common wave theory in which the speed of waves is\nsupposed to depend only on the medium, not at all on the speed of the\nsource.\nTo the contrary, Voigt derived for light and sound (but IMO not alltogether\nsatisfactory) that the speed of waves as function of the angle also slightly\ndepends on the speed of the source.\nHe also wrote a separate paper "Theory of light for moving media" (in\nGerman).\n\nHarald\n\n> I always compare this to\n> the bow wave of a boat, which propagates based on the charactistic of\n> the water, not on the boat\'s speed. So Voigt had the prerequisite for\n> deriving the Lorentz transformations and did so in a limited way. I\n> haven\'t seen his paper but I believe he accounted for the Fitzgerald\n> contraction, and Whittaker says he predicted the (longitudinal)\n> relativistic doppler effect. Whittaker has the whole story; Voigt\'s\n> paper went unnoticed when it might have mattered, and then was\n> rediscovered after the Einstein revoplution. He was honored for it at\n> a scientific meeting as a very old man.\n>\n> ------------------------------------------------------------------------\n> This post submitted through the LaTeX-enabled physicsforums.com\n> To view this post with LaTeX images:\n> http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=55931#post396535\n>\n\n\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form">  View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky>"selfAdjoint" <rthompson10@new.rr.com> wrote in message
news:selfAdjoint.1gysyj@physicsforums.com...
> Voigt used an ether theory in which the speed of light depended only on
> the ether, not on the speed of the source.

Sorry but it's exactly the opposite - but then, you have it from hear-say.
See also my earlier reply.
To make it very clear:
Maxwell and Lorentz used common wave theory in which the speed of waves is
supposed to depend only on the medium, not at all on the speed of the
source.
To the contrary, Voigt derived for light and sound (but IMO not alltogether
satisfactory) that the speed of waves as function of the angle also slightly
depends on the speed of the source.
He also wrote a separate paper "Theory of light for moving media" (in
German).

Harald

> I always compare this to
> the bow wave of a boat, which propagates based on the charactistic of
> the water, not on the boat's speed. So Voigt had the prerequisite for
> deriving the Lorentz transformations and did so in a limited way. I
> haven't seen his paper but I believe he accounted for the Fitzgerald
> contraction, and Whittaker says he predicted the (longitudinal)
> relativistic doppler effect. Whittaker has the whole story; Voigt's
> paper went unnoticed when it might have mattered, and then was
> rediscovered after the Einstein revoplution. He was honored for it at
> a scientific meeting as a very old man.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This post submitted through the LaTeX-enabled physicsforums.com
> To view this post with LaTeX images:
> http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=55931#post396535
>

Timo Nieminen

Dec9-04, 11:33 AM

<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','toolbar=no, location=no,scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no ,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usenet ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>\n\n\n\nOn Wed, 8 Dec 2004, abstract@bluesharkdesign.com wrote:\n\n> Reading Carver Mead\'s "Collective Electrodynamics" and came across\n> reference to W. Voigt having published the Lorentz transformations\n> in1889. Lorentz gave Voigt credit in a 1909 paper. I wonder why so few\n> have ever heard of this guy? Does his paper exist onLine?\n\nVoigt\'s paper was:\n\nW. Voigt\n"Ueber das Doppler\'sche princip"\nNachrichten von der K=F6niglichen Gesellschaft der Wissenschaften\nund der Georg-Augusts-Universit=E4t 1887(2), 41-51 (1887)\n\nNote that the journal title is often given as Goettinger Nachrichten, or=20\nthe Nachr. Ges. Wiss. Goett. or such. It\'s available online via the Uni of=\n=20\nGoettingen digital archives.\n\nA discussion of Voigt\'s paper, with an English translation, is also=20\navailable:\n\nAndreas Ernst and Jong Ping Hsu\n"First proposal of the universal speed of light by Voigt in 1887"\nChinese Journal of Physics 39(3), 211-230 (2001)\n\nIIRC, the journal is freely available on www.\n\n> PS. Looking for a pre-Jackson (easier/ lead-in) book on\n> Electrodynamics. I believe I need something that will connect\n> (geometrically) the electrons to currents and currents to waves, but\n> I\'m open to any good advice.\n\nGriffiths is OK as a pre-Jackson, but might not be suitable if you want a=\n=20\nreally introductory book.\n\nElectrons are something best ignored in classical electrodynamics, at=20\nleast at first. Think charge density and current density, not electrons.=20\nCharge density relates directly to electron excess/dearth. Relationship=20\nbetween current density and electrons is more complicated, since it=20\ndepends on both electron density and drift velocity.\n\n--=20\nTimo Nieminen - Home page: http://www.physics.uq.edu.au/people/nieminen/\nShrine to Spirits: http://www.users.bigpond.com/timo_nieminen/spirits.html\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form">  View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky>On Wed, 8 Dec 2004, abstract@bluesharkdesign.com wrote:

> Reading Carver Mead's "Collective Electrodynamics" and came across
> reference to W. Voigt having published the Lorentz transformations
> in1889. Lorentz gave Voigt credit in a 1909 paper. I wonder why so few
> have ever heard of this guy? Does his paper exist onLine?

Voigt's paper was:

W. Voigt
"Ueber das Doppler'sche princip"
Nachrichten von der K=F6niglichen Gesellschaft der Wissenschaften
und der Georg-Augusts-Universit=E4t 1887(2), 41-51 (1887)

Note that the journal title is often given as Goettinger Nachrichten, or=20
the Nachr. Ges. Wiss. Goett. or such. It's available online via the Uni of=
=20
Goettingen digital archives.

A discussion of Voigt's paper, with an English translation, is also=20
available:

Andreas Ernst and Jong Ping Hsu
"First proposal of the universal speed of light by Voigt in 1887"
Chinese Journal of Physics 39(3), 211-230 (2001)

IIRC, the journal is freely available on www.

> PS. Looking for a pre-Jackson (easier/ lead-in) book on
> Electrodynamics. I believe I need something that will connect
> (geometrically) the electrons to currents and currents to waves, but
> I'm open to any good advice.

Griffiths is OK as a pre-Jackson, but might not be suitable if you want a=
=20
really introductory book.

Electrons are something best ignored in classical electrodynamics, at=20
least at first. Think charge density and current density, not electrons.=20
Charge density relates directly to electron excess/dearth. Relationship=20
between current density and electrons is more complicated, since it=20
depends on both electron density and drift velocity.

--=20
Timo Nieminen - Home page: http://www.physics.uq.edu.au/people/nieminen/
Shrine to Spirits: http://www.users.bigpond.com/timo_nieminen/spirits.html

greywolf42

Dec9-04, 11:33 AM

<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','toolbar=no, location=no,scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no ,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usenet ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>\n\n\n<abstract@bluesharkdesign.com> wrote in message\nnews:1102457913.500565.105120@c13g2000cwb .googlegroups.com...\n> Hi There,\n> Reading Carver Mead\'s "Collective Electrodynamics" and came across\n> reference to W. Voigt having published the Lorentz transformations\n> in1889.\n\nVoigt\'s effort was limited to the doppler effect.\n\n> Lorentz gave Voigt credit in a 1909 paper. I wonder why so few\n> have ever heard of this guy?\n\nI would guess that it is because Voigt is even farther in the past than\nLorentz. And -- aside from the use of Lorentz\' name in the "Lorentz\ntransformation" -- the work of Lorentz is not usally taught in mainline\nphysics classes. Though he\'s well known here, and to historians of physics.\n\nhttp://groups-beta.google.com/group/sci.physics.relativity/msg/865d59c4f0cd1\nea5\n\nMy apologies for the new "beta" Google\'s truncation of the link.\n===============\n> In _Nachr. Ges Wiss._, Goettingenn, 41, 1887, W. Voigt derived\n> the transformation starting from the "differential equations for\n> the oscillation of an elastic incompressible medium." I have\n> Voigt\'s work in front of me. Did you read it _before_ you made\n> your silly assertion?\n\nNo, I didn\'t read Voigt. I don\'t live in a library. I simply went to an\ninternet search and found some links on the history of SR\n\nhttp://www-gap.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/HistTopics/Special_relativit...\n\nWhich states:\n\n"Also in 1887 Voigt first wrote down the transformations\n\nx\' = x - vt, y\' = y/g, z\' = z/g, t\' = t - vx/c2\n\nand showed that certain equations were invariant under these\ntransformations. These transformations, with a different scale factor, are\nnow known as the Lorentz equations and the group of Lorentz transformations\ngives the geometry of special relativity. All this was unknown to Voigt who\nwas writing on the Doppler shift when he wrote down the transformations."\n\n"Voigt corresponded with Lorentz about the Michelson-Morley experiment in\n1887 and 1888 but Lorentz does not seem to have learnt of the\ntransformations at that stage."\n===============\n\n> Does his paper exist onLine?\n\nNot to my knowledge.\n\n> PHMarkowitz abstract@bluesharkdesign.com\n> PS. Looking for a pre-Jackson (easier/ lead-in) book on\n> Electrodynamics. I believe I need something that will connect\n> (geometrically) the electrons to currents and currents to waves, but\n> I\'m open to any good advice.\n\n--\ngreywolf42\nubi dubium ibi libertas\n{remove planet for return e-mail}\n\n\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form">  View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky><abstract@bluesharkdesign.com> wrote in message
news:1102457913.500565.105120@c13g2000cwb.googlegr oups.com...
> Hi There,
> Reading Carver Mead's "Collective Electrodynamics" and came across
> reference to W. Voigt having published the Lorentz transformations
> in1889.

Voigt's effort was limited to the doppler effect.

> Lorentz gave Voigt credit in a 1909 paper. I wonder why so few
> have ever heard of this guy?

I would guess that it is because Voigt is even farther in the past than
Lorentz. And -- aside from the use of Lorentz' name in the "Lorentz
transformation" -- the work of Lorentz is not usally taught in mainline
physics classes. Though he's well known here, and to historians of physics.

http://groups-\beta.google.com/group/sci.physics.relativity/msg/865d59c4f0cd1
ea5

My apologies for the new "\beta" Google's truncation of the link.
===============
> In _Nachr. Ges Wiss._, Goettingenn, 41, 1887, W. Voigt derived
> the transformation starting from the "differential equations for
> the oscillation of an elastic incompressible medium." I have
> Voigt's work in front of me. Did you read it _before_ you made
> your silly assertion?

No, I didn't read Voigt. I don't live in a library. I simply went to an
internet search and found some links on the history of SR

http://www-gap.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/HistTopics/Special_relativit...

Which states:

"Also in 1887 Voigt first wrote down the transformations

x' = x -[/itex] vt, [itex]y' = y/g, z' = z/g, t' = t - vx/c2

and showed that certain equations were invariant under these
transformations. These transformations, with a different scale factor, are
now known as the Lorentz equations and the group of Lorentz transformations
gives the geometry of special relativity. All this was unknown to Voigt who
was writing on the Doppler shift when he wrote down the transformations."

"Voigt corresponded with Lorentz about the Michelson-Morley experiment in
1887 and 1888 but Lorentz does not seem to have learnt of the
transformations at that stage."
===============

> Does his paper exist onLine?

Not to my knowledge.

> PHMarkowitz abstract@bluesharkdesign.com
> PS. Looking for a pre-Jackson (easier/ lead-in) book on
> Electrodynamics. I believe I need something that will connect
> (geometrically) the electrons to currents and currents to waves, but
> I'm open to any good advice.

--
greywolf42
ubi dubium ibi libertas
{remove planet for return e-mail}

Harry

Dec9-04, 11:33 AM

<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','toolbar=no, location=no,scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no ,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usenet ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>\n\n\n\n<abstract@bluesharkdesign.com> wrote in message\nnews:1102457913.500565.105120@c13g2000cwb .googlegroups.com...\n> Hi There,\n> Reading Carver Mead\'s "Collective Electrodynamics" and came across\n> reference to W. Voigt having published the Lorentz transformations\n> in1889. Lorentz gave Voigt credit in a 1909 paper. I wonder why so few\n> have ever heard of this guy? Does his paper exist onLine?\n\nYes, you can find the original text of the first paper that you refer to (of\n1887!) by searching Author "voigt" and Title "doppler" on\nhttp://gdz.sub.uni-goettingen.de/search-entry.shtml\n\nAlso an interpretation with translation of Voigt\'s text into English of it\ndoes exist online, by Ernst et al:\nhttp://psroc.phys.ntu.edu.tw/cjp/v39/211.pdf\n\nThat translation looks fine to me, although their interpretation is IMO\nquite wrong. And indeed, Lorentz gave him such credit but apparently had not\nread his paper (and Voigt didn\'t protest)...\n\nVoigt made a transformation as mathematical aid for conformal mapping in\norder to solve the wave equation for a moving source, and the transformation\nhe chose is mathematically not very different from the Lorentz\ntransformation. He could have used the Lorentz transformation as well, it\ndidn\'t matter. However, it appears that his results weren\'t completely\nright.\nThe only follow-up on Voigt\'s work that that I know of is a recent diploma\nwork at our school, which looks better but likely also not all-together\nflawless.\n\nAn eventual effect on wave propagation isotropy due to a moving source was\nan issue that Lorentz and most others after him complely neglected; instead\nmost physicists take the assumption for granted - without theoretical or\nexperimental evidence - that up to second order the motion of the source has\nno effect on wave propagation in general (sound, light). The only relevant\nexperiment that I know of was done a few years ago, and the results agreed\nin essence with Voigt and not with Maxwell/Lorentz:\nhttp://www.norbertfeist.de/english.htm#Absatz5\n\nA few days ago my attention was drawn to another paper of Voigt, also of\n1887, in which he argued that Michelson\'s experiment had to yield a zero\nresult (sorry, in German); it\'s a big document but relevant for M&M are\npp.233-235;\nYou can search for "voigt" and "theorie bewegte", or just copy:\nhttp://gdz-srv2.sub.uni-goettingen.de/cgi-bin/pdfconvert_2.pl?docid=55436&imageset-id=2054&physpage=189\n\nHarald\n\n> PHMarkowitz abstract@bluesharkdesign.com\n> PS. Looking for a pre-Jackson (easier/ lead-in) book on\n> Electrodynamics. I believe I need something that will connect\n> (geometrically) the electrons to currents and currents to waves, but\n> I\'m open to any good advice.\n\n\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form">  View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky><abstract@bluesharkdesign.com> wrote in message
news:1102457913.500565.105120@c13g2000cwb.googlegr oups.com...
> Hi There,
> Reading Carver Mead's "Collective Electrodynamics" and came across
> reference to W. Voigt having published the Lorentz transformations
> in1889. Lorentz gave Voigt credit in a 1909 paper. I wonder why so few
> have ever heard of this guy? Does his paper exist onLine?

Yes, you can find the original text of the first paper that you refer to (of
1887!) by searching Author "voigt" and Title "doppler" on
http://gdz.sub.uni-goettingen.de/search-entry.shtml

Also an interpretation with translation of Voigt's text into English of it
does exist online, by Ernst et al:
http://psroc.phys.ntu.edu.tw/cjp/v39/211.pdf

That translation looks fine to me, although their interpretation is IMO
quite wrong. And indeed, Lorentz gave him such credit but apparently had not
read his paper (and Voigt didn't protest)...

Voigt made a transformation as mathematical aid for conformal mapping in
order to solve the wave equation for a moving source, and the transformation
he chose is mathematically not very different from the Lorentz
transformation. He could have used the Lorentz transformation as well, it
didn't matter. However, it appears that his results weren't completely
right.
The only follow-up on Voigt's work that that I know of is a recent diploma
work at our school, which looks better but likely also not all-together
flawless.

An eventual effect on wave propagation isotropy due to a moving source was
an issue that Lorentz and most others after him complely neglected; instead
most physicists take the assumption for granted - without theoretical or
experimental evidence - that up to second order the motion of the source has
no effect on wave propagation in general (sound, light). The only relevant
experiment that I know of was done a few years ago, and the results agreed
in essence with Voigt and not with Maxwell/Lorentz:
http://www.norbertfeist.de/english.htm#Absatz5

A few days ago my attention was drawn to another paper of Voigt, also of
1887, in which he argued that Michelson's experiment had to yield a zero
result (sorry, in German); it's a big document but relevant for M&M are
pp.233-235;
You can search for "voigt" and "theorie bewegte", or just copy:
http://gdz-srv2.sub.uni-goettingen.de/cgi-bin/pdfconvert_2.pl?docid=55436&imageset-id=2054&physpage=189

Harald

> PHMarkowitz abstract@bluesharkdesign.com
> PS. Looking for a pre-Jackson (easier/ lead-in) book on
> Electrodynamics. I believe I need something that will connect
> (geometrically) the electrons to currents and currents to waves, but
> I'm open to any good advice.

greywolf42

Dec13-04, 11:10 PM

<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','toolbar=no, location=no,scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no ,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usenet ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>edition, page 17.\n\nThe lives of the three bank clerks are not IDENTICAL. Ideology does\nhave SOME effect. But all technological societies, in order to\nsurvive, must evolve along APPROXIMATELY the same trajectory.\n\n19. (Paragraph 123) Just think an irresponsible genetic engineer might\ncreate a lot of terrorists.\n\n20. (Paragraph 124) For a further example of undesirable consequences\nof medical progress, suppose a reliable cure for cancer is discovered.\nEven if the treatment is too expensive to be available to any but the\nelite, it will greatly reduce their incentive to stop the escape of\ncarcinogens into the environment.\n\n21. (Paragraph 128) Since many people may find paradoxical the notion\nthat a large number of good things can add up to a bad thing, we will\nillustrate with an analogy. Suppose Mr. A is playing chess with Mr. B.\nMr. C, a Grand Master, is looking over Mr. A\'s shoulder. Mr. A of\ncourse wants to win his game, so if Mr. C points out a good move for\nhim to make, he is doing Mr. A a favor. But suppose now that Mr. C\ntells Mr. A how to make ALL of his moves. In each particular instance\nhe does Mr. A a favor by showing him his best move, but by making ALL\nof his moves for him he spoils the game, since there is not point in\nMr. A\'s playing the game at all if someone else makes all his moves.\n\nThe situation of modern man is analogous to that of Mr. A. The system\nmakes an individual\'s life easier for him in innumerable ways, but in\ndoing so it deprives him of control over his own fate.\n\n22. (Paragraph 137) Here we are considering only the conflict of\nvalues within the mainstream. For the sake of simplicity we leave out\nof the picture "outsider" values like the idea that wild nature is\nmore important than human economic welfare.\n\n23. (Paragraph 137) Self-interest is not necessarily MATERIAL\nself-interest. It can consist in fulfillment of s\n\n\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form">  View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky>edition, page 17.

The lives of the three bank clerks are not IDENTICAL. Ideology does
have SOME effect. But all technological societies, in order to
survive, must evolve along APPROXIMATELY the same trajectory.

19. (Paragraph 123) Just think an irresponsible genetic engineer might
create a lot of terrorists.

20. (Paragraph 124) For a further example of undesirable consequences
of medical progress, suppose a reliable cure for cancer is discovered.
Even if the treatment is too expensive to be available to any but the
elite, it will greatly reduce their incentive to stop the escape of
carcinogens into the environment.

21. (Paragraph 128) Since many people may find paradoxical the notion
that a large number of good things can add up to a bad thing, we will
illustrate with an analogy. Suppose Mr. A is playing chess with Mr. B.
Mr. C, a Grand Master, is looking over Mr. A's shoulder. Mr. A of
course wants to win his game, so if Mr. C points out a good move for
him to make, he is doing Mr. A a favor. But suppose now that Mr. C
tells Mr. A how to make ALL of his moves. In each particular instance
he does Mr. A a favor by showing him his best move, but by making ALL
of his moves for him he spoils the game, since there is not point in
Mr. A's playing the game at all if someone else makes all his moves.

The situation of modern man is analogous to that of Mr. A. The system
makes an individual's life easier for him in innumerable ways, but in
doing so it deprives him of control over his own fate.

22. (Paragraph 137) Here we are considering only the conflict of
values within the mainstream. For the sake of simplicity we leave out
of the picture "outsider" values like the idea that wild nature is
more important than human economic welfare.

23. (Paragraph 137) Self-interest is not necessarily MATERIAL
self-interest. It can consist in fulfillment of s