Can a subgroup be mapped onto its parent group as a homomorphism?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of homomorphisms between a group and its subgroup, specifically whether a subgroup can be mapped onto its parent group as a homomorphism. The scope includes theoretical aspects of group theory and definitions related to homomorphisms and isomorphisms.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asserts that a mapping from the cyclic group G to its subgroup G` defined by a^n ---> a^2n is a homomorphism, while questioning the validity of the reverse mapping from G` to G.
  • Another participant challenges the first claim by suggesting a potential confusion between homomorphism and isomorphism.
  • A different participant introduces the idea that homomorphisms from a subgroup to a group may be possible in the context of infinite groups.
  • One participant clarifies that the original text's language may have been misleading, emphasizing that the definition of an onto homomorphism (epimorphism) does not imply a requirement for all elements in the target group to be images of elements in the source group.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the possibility of a homomorphism from a subgroup onto its parent group, with some asserting it is not possible while others suggest that it may depend on the context, such as infinite groups. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the generality of these claims.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the definitions of homomorphism and isomorphism, as well as the implications of surjectivity in the context of group mappings. Some assumptions about the nature of groups and their subgroups are not fully explored.

majutsu
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Consider the cyclic group G={a,a^2,a^3,...a^12=u} and its subgroup G`={a^2,a^4,...,a^12}. My book says that the mapping
a^n ---> a^2n is an homomorphism of G onto G` (this seems true)

and that X: a^n ---> a^n is homomorphism of G` onto G (this seems to be false to me, a misprint)

A homomorphism of G` onto G would have
1)every g` in G` has a unique image g in G (true)
2)if X(a`)=a and X(b`)=b then X(a` o b`)=X(a x b) with operator o for G` and x for G (true)
3)every g in G is an image (false) e.g. a^3 in G is not the image of any g` in G`.

In fact, it would seem to me that you can have a homomorphism of a group onto a subgroup, but you could not have a homomorphism of a subgroup onto a group ever. Is this right, or am I missing something?
 
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3)every g in G is an image (false) e.g. a^3 in G is not the image of any g` in G`.

Have you confused homomorphism with isomorphism?
 
you could not have a homomorphism of a subgroup onto a group ever.

Try looking at infinite groups.
 
I see the problem. It is not a misprint, just poor language. The original text says (paraphrased) a homomorphism of G into H as
F(G,*g) ---> (H,*h)
and
F(g1 *g g2)=F(g1) *h F(g2)

Then the book reads, "if (iii) every h in H is an image we have a homomorphism of G onto H." This is actually a definition of the term ONTO, that is to say epimorphism, or surjective. But if you are not used to all this, it almost makes it sound like a requirement of homomorphism, which I realize now it is not. This is why it sounded like I was confusing isomorphism with homomorphism, as isomorphisms are injective and surjective, that is one-to-one.

You all have really helped clear this up. Carrying this misunderstanding forward could have been deadly.
 

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