Scary Santa lurks in Finland's past

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the Finnish tradition of Joulupukki, or "yule goat," and its historical context compared to modern Christmas celebrations. Participants explore the origins and characteristics of Joulupukki, contrasting it with contemporary interpretations of Santa Claus and discussing the potential revival of such traditions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants describe Joulupukki as a frightening figure who demanded offerings and scared children, contrasting sharply with the modern Santa Claus.
  • Others argue that the modern Christmas, including Santa Claus, has evolved from various European traditions and is not rooted in Christian practices.
  • A participant humorously relates personal anecdotes to the Joulupukki tradition, suggesting a cultural connection despite not being Finnish.
  • Some express interest in reviving the Yule Goat tradition in America, indicating a desire to reconnect with historical customs.
  • There is mention of the Dutch influence on the American Santa Claus, highlighting the transformation of the character over time.
  • Participants share humorous takes on the idea of dressing up as Joulupukki, discussing the potential reactions from neighbors.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a mix of agreement and disagreement regarding the significance and interpretation of Joulupukki and modern Christmas traditions. There is no clear consensus on whether to revive the Yule Goat tradition or how it should be approached.

Contextual Notes

Some claims about the historical roots of Christmas and the evolution of Santa Claus are presented without resolution, and participants rely on varying interpretations of cultural practices.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may interest those exploring cultural traditions, the evolution of holiday customs, or the historical context of Christmas celebrations.

Ivan Seeking
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How about it Janus, should we revive our Finnish traditions?

...The forefather of the portly, bearded man, known in Finland as Joulupukki, was not dressed in red, did not greet children with smiles and he certainly brought no gifts.

Instead Joulupukki, literally "yule goat", donned horns and an animal hide and covered his face with soot or a bark mask. He traveled from house to house frightening children with his wild dancing and singing, and expected offerings of food and booze. [continued]
http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=641105
 
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Just one more hint that the people trying to but "Christ back into Christmas" don't have a clue. In spite of the name, Christ has Never been a significant feature of "Christmas". Our founding fathers did not celebrate the holiday, which had been OUTLAWED by the Puritans, and in fact, the US congress was in session and working on 25 Dec until well into the 19th century. The US has created the modern Christmas within the last 100yrs, taking customs from all over Europe, and only from Christianity. The modern venison of Santa Clause, reindeer and all, started with the poem "T'was the night before Christmas". The historic roots are closer to the Finnish version cited by Ivan.

So people wanting to but "Christ back in Christmas are simply showing their ignorance of history" The true reason for the season is indeed the birthday of the SUN.

CELEBRATE THE SOLSTICE!
 
Instead Joulupukki, literally "yule goat", donned horns and an animal hide and covered his face with soot or a bark mask. He traveled from house to house frightening children with his wild dancing and singing, and expected offerings of food and booze.

What a coincidence - my uncle Pete used to do the same thing every Christmas (before he got sober).
And we're not even Finnish.
 
Where is the bus to Finland's past?

Any place where drunken, nasty old goats are allowed to hurl insults and frighten small children can’t be all bad, lol.
 
Added P.S.

Ivan Seeking said:
How about it Janus, should we revive our Finnish traditions?


http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=641105
We actually have a "Yule Goat" (made of straw) under our tree.

However, though I am bearded, and somewhat "portly", I think that my donning horns and animal hide, covering my face with soot, and then traveling from house to house frightening children with wild dancing and singing, all the while demanding offerings of food and booze, just might put off the neighbors (They're kind of funny that way).

P.S. Less than 3 months to St. Urho's Day!
 
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BoulderHead said:
Any place where drunken, nasty old goats are allowed to hurl insults and frighten small children can’t be all bad, lol.

Do you think you would fit in well there? :biggrin:
 
Janus said:
We actually have a "Yule Goat" (made of straw) under our tree.

I've been out Finned!
 
But remember: it were the Dutch who brought the legend of Sinterklaas to America :wink: where it took on a life of it's own and became Santa Claus. We still only celebrate Sinterklaas, I've never seen Santa Claus walking around in the Netherlands..
from:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Claus

When the Dutch still owned the land that later became New York, they brought the Saint Nicholas' eve legend with them to the Americas, but without the red mantle and other symbols. The name "Santa Claus" is derived from the character's Dutch name, Sinterklaas. In Dutch, the feast is called Sinterklaas Feest, celebrating the birthday of Sinterklaas during Sinterklaasavond ("Sinterklaas's Evening") on December 5 (or, in Belgium, on December 6).

In Washington Irving's History of New York, Sinterklaas was Americanized to "Santa Claus" but lost his bishop's apparel, and was at first pictured as a thick bellied Dutch sailor with a pipe in a green winter coat. Irving's book was a lampoon of the Dutch culture of New York, and much of this portrait is his joking invention. Santa Claus appeared in various colored costumes as he gradually became amalgamated with the figure of Father Christmas, but red soon became popular after he appeared wearing such on an 1885 Christmas card. His horse was converted to reindeer and a sleigh, the black peters (which were in fact Moorish slaves) were converted to elves, and, in an attempt to move the origin of the festivities away from their pagan background to a more Christian one, the date was moved back a few weeks to the celebrated day of the birth of Jesus: Christmas.
So exactly what IS the source? As far as I know, it's a celebration of a bishop from Myra in Turkey who saved his village from hunger, who gave presents and weddingtreasures to poor girls. He died on the 6th of december, which is remembered by giving presents to children as he did in his life.
 
Janus said:
We actually have a "Yule Goat" (made of straw) under our tree.
I love it! :rolleyes:
However, though I am bearded, and somewhat "portly", I think that my donning horns and animal hide, covering my face with soot, and then traveling from house to house frightening children with wild dancing and singing, all the while demanding offerings of food and booze, just might put off the neighbors (They're kind of funny that way).
:smile: Yeah, wouldn't want to do that;
https://www.physicsforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=253
(I'm thinking horns just might add a crowning touch) :-p
 
  • #10
Ivan Seeking said:
Do you think you would fit in well there? :biggrin:
I was thinking there might be more of a chance, yes. :biggrin:
 
  • #11
I was thinking there might be more of a chance, yes.

Anyone with an unhealthy drinking habit fits right in here :biggrin: and is immediately a valued and admired member of the community. And from what I've gathered seeing tanked up Santas even nowadays ain't that uncommon. It's good to know some still uphold traditions. And of course they all live in Korvatunturi.
 
  • #12
Hey! My ancestry is 1/8th Finnish...can I get a yule goat costume too?
 
  • #13
I think it's time we revive the Yule Goat tradition here in America. :biggrin:
 
  • #14
Here's mine:
http://hosted.yourimg.com/04/362/13/YuleGoatJulbocken.gif
 
  • #15
Tsunami said:
Here's mine:
http://hosted.yourimg.com/04/362/13/YuleGoatJulbocken.gif
That's too cute! I want something scarier. :devil:
 
  • #16
Evo said:
That's too cute! I want something scarier. :devil:

I'll send you a picture of Bun. :bugeye:
 
  • #17
Ivan Seeking said:
I'll send you a picture of Bun. :bugeye:
Can you add a goatee and horns? :biggrin:
 
  • #18
No need to... :biggrin:
 
  • #19
Bun! :eek: :eek:

http://umsis.miami.edu/~dduardo/evil_genius_bun.png
 
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  • #20
Whoa, that's scary! :smile: