Understanding Special Relativity: Mass, Energy, and Velocity

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concepts of mass, energy, and velocity in the context of special relativity. Participants explore how mass is perceived to change with speed, the derivation of relevant equations, and the addition of velocities at relativistic speeds. The scope includes theoretical explanations and derivations relevant to modern physics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks clarification on proving that mass increases with speed and how to add velocities approaching the speed of light.
  • Another participant provides the equation for relativistic mass and the formula for velocity addition, mentioning it might be called the Einstein addition velocity.
  • There is a request for derivations of the equations mentioned, highlighting a need for foundational understanding.
  • Some participants suggest looking into modern physics textbooks for derivations and resources, while others share links to online derivations.
  • A participant expresses skepticism about the quality of a shared derivation, noting that the concept of mass increase is less emphasized in modern discussions, favoring rest mass instead.
  • Another participant presents a derivation using metric equations, although they express uncertainty about the correctness of their notation and results.
  • There is a discussion about the modern interpretation of mass and momentum in special relativity, suggesting that the relationship is more complex than simply p = mv.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the interpretation of mass in special relativity, with some advocating for the traditional view of mass increase and others supporting a modern interpretation that emphasizes momentum and rest mass. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best approach to understanding these concepts.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include varying definitions of mass, the dependence on interpretations of momentum, and unresolved mathematical steps in the derivations presented. Some participants express uncertainty about the correctness of their contributions.

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I am writing an essay on special relativity, but I am stuck on how to prove that mass increases with speed, e=mc squared and I do not know how to show how you add velocities at speeds approaching the speed of light. I would be very grateful for an explanation of these things.
 
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Proving mass increases with speed...well for a start:
[tex]m = \frac {m_0} {\sqrt{1-v^2/c^2}}[/tex]

Then you can look at the velocity of 2 objects traveling towards each other.
Overall velocity is u, and the 2 velocities are v and u':
[tex]u = \frac {v+u'} {1+ \frac {v u'} {c^2}}[/tex]

Reverse sign of one of the velocities to get particles traveling towards each other.
I believe it is called the Einstein addition velocity...not sure if that's right though, learned it a long time ago.
 
Yes but how do you derive those equations?
 
You can find derivations in many second-year college/university level "modern physics" textbooks. For example, Beiser, "Concepts of Modern Physics" (5th ed.) or Taylor/Zafiriatos/Dubson, "Modern Physics for Scientists and Engineers" (2nd ed.). Check your nearby libraries to see what they have. Or browse through some university Web sites. Surely someone has put lecture notes on line which give the derivations or at least sketch their outlines.
 
Here's a derivation if that'll help.

http://www.karlscalculus.org/einstein.html"
 
Last edited by a moderator:
NeutronStar said:
Here's a derivation if that'll help.

http://www.karlscalculus.org/einstein.html"

Hmm I don't know if that's a great one as it starts off with the formula mass increase. In fact these days few talk about mass increase as the mass is usually defined as the rest mass which obviously does not change.
 
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jcsd said:
Hmm I don't know if that's a great one as it starts off with the formula mass increase. In fact these days few talk about mass increase as the mass is usually defined as the rest mass which obviously does not change.
1. I never implied that it was the best possible derivation. :approve:

2. As a "Science Advisor" shouldn't you be actually pointing to a better derivation instead of merely posting criticisms? Are you sure you aren't just a "Science Critic" posing as an "Science Advisor"? :biggrin:
 
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well there is always the derivation from the metric:

(Tau)^2=t^2-s^2
(Tau)^2=t^2-(v^2)(t^2)
(Tau)^2=(t^2)(1-(V^2))
(Tau/t)^2=1-v^2
(Tau/t)=(E/m)
(E/m)^2=(1-v^2)
E/m=(+ or -)(1-v^2)^(1/2)
We then convert it to SI units
(E/mc^2)=(+or-)(1-v^2)^(1/2)
E=(+or-)(mc^2)(1-v^2)^(1/2)
at rest a particle has 0 velocity so the equation reduces to:

E=(+or-)mc^2

sorry for the confusing notation, i don't know LaTex
 
QuantumDefect said:
well there is always the derivation from the metric:

Tau2 =t2-s2
Tau2=t2-v2t2
Tau2=t2(1-v2)
(Tau/t)2=(1-v2)
Tau/t=E/m
(E/m)2=(1-v2)
E/m= ± (1-v2)1/2
We then convert it to SI units
E/mc2= ± (1-v2)1/2
E= ± mc2(1-v2)1/2
at rest a particle has 0 velocity so the equation reduces to:

E= ± mc2

sorry for the confusing notation, i don't know LaTex
I cleaned up a little bit for you without using Latex. Hope I didn't make an error.
I used an auto-replace macro and didn't check the results. :biggrin:

You can use [ sup ]2[ /sup ] (no spaces) for exponents. Also [ sub ]n[ /sub ] works for subscripts.

Hold down the alt key, type in 0177 then let up to produce ±
Sorry, I couldn't figure out the code for the Tau symbol.

Nice derivation by they way. If it's correct! I honestly don't know.
 
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  • #10
The modern interpretation discourages the idea of "mass increase" and favors the idea that momentum is not as simple as p = mv.

The only thing SR does is tell us is that mathematically P = m*v*gamma, whether the gamma term associates with the mass term, or the velocity term, or both, is a philosophical difference of interpretation.
 

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