WW2 era German 88 mm anti aircraft gun

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the characteristics and effectiveness of the WW2 era German 88 mm anti-aircraft gun, which was later adapted for use as an anti-tank gun. Participants explore various aspects of its design, performance, and historical significance, touching on technical specifications and comparisons with other weaponry of the time.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Historical

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants highlight the caliber and muzzle velocity of the 88 mm gun as key factors in its effectiveness, noting that a larger shell and higher velocity contribute to its ability to penetrate armor.
  • There is a discussion about the importance of barrel length in cannon design, with some asserting that a longer barrel allows for greater acceleration and kinetic energy of the projectile.
  • One participant praises the overall design of the gun, including its optics, and mentions its transition from a fixed platform to a main battle tank gun.
  • Another participant expresses admiration for German engineering during WW2, suggesting they were significantly advanced in weapon technology.
  • A participant introduces a comparison between the German MP44 and the Russian AK-47, claiming the former influenced the latter's design.
  • Some participants express discomfort with the discussion, questioning the context in which the weapon's effectiveness is being evaluated.
  • A later reply emphasizes that the performance of a weapon should not be conflated with its use or the context of the war, noting the current alliances of Germany, Italy, and Japan.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express admiration for the technical aspects of the 88 mm gun and German engineering, but there are differing views on the implications of discussing such weaponry, particularly in relation to historical context and moral considerations. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the appropriateness of celebrating military technology.

Contextual Notes

Some claims about the performance and design of the 88 mm gun depend on specific definitions and assumptions about weapon effectiveness and historical impact, which are not universally agreed upon.

spender
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What was so special about WW2 era German 88 mm anti aircraft gun later used to great effect as an anti tank gun?
 
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First: caliber, a big shell makes a big hole. Second a 1000 m/s Muzzle velocity gave it a flat trajectory and the ability to punch through lots of amour. By comparison other German AT guns where the 50mm with ~800m/s muzzle velocity and the 75mm @ ~933m/s.Look here for more info.
 
Great site ! thanks Integral.
 
Just a note, take a look at how long the barrel on the 88 is when compared to a Sherman tank's 75 mm. One variable in cannon design is barrel length. The longer the barrel, the more time the projectile has to be accelerated, the more kinetic energy it has. In general, the longer the barrel, the higher the velocity, the more kinetic energy the projectile has to punch through armour.
 
In general, the longer the barrel, the higher the velocity, the more kinetic energy the projectile has to punch through armour.

... and it did it so wonderfully well...

Cheers...
 
Man ! Germans had some good stuff during WW2. They were like 20 or more years ahead in everything they lay their hands on.Great engineers those Germans are !
 
Now for a pitch for my favorite set of games. The http://battlefront.com/ series of games is a very good simulation of the capability of the weapons and armor of the day encapsulated in a very playable game system. Each player plots his orders on a 3d battle field, then from these plots a 1 min movie is created, each player then watches his movie, he can see his units (infantry squads an individual vehicles) move and fire as ordered, with the battlefield delays and uncertainties factored in. Leadership, command and experience are significant factors. Great series of games, the original Combat Mission: Beyond Overlord can now be found in the cut rate game shelfs for around $10.
 
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The gun also had some great optics for sighting targets. A good overall design, to the point that it went from being a fixed platform mounted gun to being used used as a main battle tank gun.
 
This thread is so disturbing...

I'm guessing you guys aren't Europeans.
 
  • #10
SpaceTiger - the performance of a weapon is completely different from the way its used or the people it is used on or the wars it is used in. Germany is now an ally as are Italy and Japan.
 
  • #11
spender said:
Man ! Germans had some good stuff during WW2. They were like 20 or more years ahead in everything they lay their hands on.Great engineers those Germans are !


Do you know that famous Russian AK 47(kalashnikov) is nothing but copy of WW2 era German MP44 sturmgewehr ?
MP44 was first assault rifle,over 500,000 were produced in the last stages of war and vehrmacht used it on all fronts.Russian got their hands on few examples and copied it,and that is how Russians "invented" Kalashnikov.
 

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