The Bible Text - Physics Forums Library

mattmns

Feb15-05, 08:36 PM

dextercioby

Feb15-05, 08:54 PM

I would like to read the bible.

I've deleted the (maybe) offending message... o:)

Danievil.

Astronuc

Feb15-05, 08:55 PM

Try - http://www.biblegateway.com/

They have many versions on-line. King James or Revised Standard Version (RSV) used by several mainstream Protestant denominations, and I would recommend either. The newer versions (New International . . .) make additional changes in the English language.

Then there is the Catholic Apocrypha (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01601a.htm) with additional books.

For the old testament, I also recommend the Stone Tanach (http://www.artscroll.com/stonetanach.html). It is interesting to compare English translations across several versions. For the old testament, the English in the Stone Tanach is more reliable, and there is Hebrew text as well.

No endorsement is expressed or implied.

franznietzsche

Feb15-05, 09:53 PM

I would like to read the bible. What is the popular version that is usually read? I have heard of the King James Bible a few times, so I am thinking that this is the main one? Also, do churces, or other groups, give out free bibles, because not having to buy one would be cool :smile:

And there are books right, like old testament new testament. Would the King James Bible include both? Also, what is the Bible that Christians go by (they go by the one with the old and new testaments right?): The majority of them that is, in the United States. Thanks.

Do i have permission to conduct an anthropological experiment with this?

I would like to send this in as a "Letter to the Editor" of a Mobile, Alabama newspaper, and watch the ensuing culture shock, and possible collapse of society in the area.

Can i please???? o:)

mattmns

Feb15-05, 10:07 PM

I've deleted the (maybe) offending message... o:)

Danievil.

Aww, what was it?

Try - http://www.biblegateway.com/

They have many versions on-line. King James or Revised Standard Version (RSV) used by several mainstream Protestant denominations, and I would recommend either. The newer versions (New International . . .) make additional changes in the English language.

Then there is the Catholic Apocrypha (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01601a.htm) with additional books.

For the old testament, I also recommend the Stone Tanach. It is interesting to compare English translations across several versions. For the old testament, the English in the Stone Tanach is more reliable, and there is Hebrew text as well.

No endorsement is expressed or implied.
Thanks Astronuc, I will check out those sites in a few seconds :smile:

Do i have permission to conduct an anthropological experiment with this?

I would like to send this in as a "Letter to the Editor" of a Mobile, Alabama newspaper, and watch the ensuing culture shock, and possible collapse of society in the area.

Can i please????

Sure, go for it.

spender

Feb15-05, 10:09 PM

You wanna read Bib lie ?

mattmns

Feb15-05, 10:37 PM

You wanna read Bib lie ?
Which version of the Bible did you read?

Do not worry, the last thing I will do is convert to Christianity. Also, in case you are wondering, I will be reading it with the idea that it is a fiction work. This is why I am leaning towards the King James version. From what I have heard, it was/is nicely written.

spender

Feb15-05, 10:49 PM

I will be reading it with the idea that it is a fiction work.

Now you talking !

As to me reading new or old testament, i have tried but could not stomach all the violence,murders etc in old testament and to a lesser extent in new.

franznietzsche

Feb15-05, 11:06 PM

Which version of the Bible did you read?

Do not worry, the last thing I will do is convert to Christianity. Also, in case you are wondering, I will be reading it with the idea that it is a fiction work. This is why I am leaning towards the King James version. From what I have heard, it was/is nicely written.

Jeebus Christo!! My bibel expluded!!!

Andromeda321

Feb16-05, 12:09 AM

In high school they decreed in English class that you can't understand Western literature unless you've read the Bible so hence we read all the important parts of the Old and New Testament (we were a secular private school and could hence get away with such things). For the very same reason I'd highly recommend reading it to anyone.
The "standard" Bible most people think of first whenever they think of the Bible is the King James Version, which was the first Bible translated into English. Sometimes the wording's a bit confusing but overall I think it's phrased better.

franznietzsche

Feb16-05, 12:14 AM

In high school they decreed in English class that you can't understand Western literature unless you've read the Bible

I agree, mostly. You can get away having not read it if you're well enough read in other literature that biblical references just become easy to spot. But its true, classical and modern literature are full of biblical references. My high school, california public high school, offered 3 senior year english classes, british lit, science fiction lit, and bible lit, but few college bound people took those anyway, we all took AP and IB english classes.

mattmns

Feb16-05, 12:28 AM

Yes, that is one of the main reasons why I want to read it. Thanks, I will definately go pick up a King James Bible one of these days.

Gokul43201

Feb16-05, 01:43 AM

Speaking of the KJV, I'm sure some of you (actually, anyone but matt) may know of this little curiosity. There is this rumor that the KJV may have in part (at least) been written by a famous dude who was 46 years old when he was writing it. To find out who the dude is go to Psalms 46, and extract the 46th words from the beginning and end of the chapter.

God is our refuge and strength, a very present help in trouble.
Therefore will not we fear, though the earth be removed, and though the mountains be carried into the midst of the sea;
Though the waters thereof roar and be troubled, though the mountains shake with the swelling thereof.
There is a river, the streams whereof shall make glad the city of God, the holy place of the tabernacles of the most High.
God is in the midst of her; she shall not be moved: God shall help her, and that right early.
The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.
The LORD of hosts is with us; the God of Jacob is our refuge.
Come, behold the works of the LORD, what desolations he hath made in the earth.
He maketh wars to cease unto the end of the earth; he breaketh the bow, and cutteth the spear in sunder; he burneth the chariot in the fire.
Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
The LORD of hosts is with us; the God of Jacob is our refuge.

franznietzsche

Feb16-05, 03:00 AM

mattmns

Feb16-05, 11:17 AM

Hmm, I counted 46 words back and forward. Got Shake and Spear. Then sadly I did not get it, rofl, so I looked it up on google and found on wikipedia that there is a rumor that Shakespeare translated part of it. :eek:

Doc Al

Feb16-05, 11:55 AM

I recommend the Skeptic's Annotated Bible (http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/). :wink:

Artman

Feb16-05, 02:24 PM

The King James version is written in more poetic language, but is not regarded as being an accurate interpretation.

I recommend either the Revised Standard Version or The New Revised Standard Version.

In any case, get a study version which will include maps, footnotes to clarify meaning of the passages and add historical background.

Happy reading.

Mentat

Feb16-05, 02:54 PM

Hey, matt, if you're still looking...I, personally, prefer the "New World Translation". Aside from the fact that it's published by JWs (and is thus *free*), it is in very clear, modern vernacular (as opposed to KJV), and it has references all throughout, that connect related scriptures (the principle being that the whole Bible should be taken as, not many separate works, but one cohesive whole; and that different parts of the Bible supplement one another). It's also got some interesting appendices.

franznietzsche

Feb16-05, 02:58 PM

i would advise against reading these new versions. If you're reading for the purpose of understanding literary references to the bible, these new versions will be much less useful. The skeptic's annotated, while entertaining for atheists, will be close to worthless.

mattmns

Feb16-05, 03:11 PM

Yes, I have decided to read the KJV. After I read it I might read the other versions. Thanks to everyone and their input.

Artman

Feb16-05, 03:17 PM

Yes, I have decided to read the KJV. After I read it I might read the other versions. Thanks to everyone and their input.I still recommend a study version (of the KJV since that is the one you have chosen). The additional historical references, background, cross references, maps appendices, etc. are helpful.

franznietzsche

Feb16-05, 03:26 PM

I still recommend a study version (of the KJV since that is the one you have chosen). The additional historical references, background, cross references, maps appendices, etc. are helpful.

Nice for historical or religious study, but not as good for literary purposes.

Artman

Feb16-05, 03:47 PM

Nice for historical or religious study, but not as good for literary purposes.True, but sometimes you read something that makes you go, "Huh?" and the notes give you the cross reference or explain the term so it makes more sense.

Andromeda321

Feb16-05, 04:37 PM

Yep, same reason they put all those little footnotes into Shakespeare plays. Plus a little background and history about the ancient world never hurt anyone anyway.

dextercioby

Feb16-05, 05:29 PM

Been reading 20 posts or so in this thread,yet i don't have a clue about 2 things
1.Why the hell would the OP wanna read the bible...?
2.Who the hell is king James...?I mean what number...?The IV-th...?The II-nd...?Is he a relative to King Kong or to the King himself (a.k.a.Elvis)...?

Daniel.

mattmns

Feb16-05, 05:38 PM

dextercioby

Feb16-05, 05:46 PM

The (most) Original Poster,which is ME,of course...:tongue2:

Daniel.

plover

Feb16-05, 10:28 PM

2.Who the hell is king James...?I mean what number...?

I or VI, depending if you are south or north of Hadrian's wall...

The "standard" Bible most people think of first whenever they think of the Bible is the King James Version, which was the first Bible translated into English.
The KJV (1611) is not actually the first translation into English. It is largely a revision of an earlier translation begun by William Tyndale (in open defiance of the Pope) and completed by one of his students in the 1530's. (And since Henry VIII had recently decided he wanted a divorce, His Majesty allowed this version to be distributed. :wink:)

However, the first complete translation into English (well, Middle English I assume...) was organized by John Wycliffe (http://www.greatsite.com/timeline-english-bible-history/john-wycliffe.html) and completed in 1384.

Astronuc

Feb16-05, 10:40 PM

Of course, you could get adventuresome and learn classic Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic (http://www.ancientscripts.com/aramaic.html , http://www.assyrianlanguage.com/ ), and read the original text before the Europeans got hold of it. :biggrin:

And if your really bold, learn Syriac (http://www.omniglot.com/writing/syriac.htm)

Moonbear

Feb17-05, 02:54 AM

Nice for historical or religious study, but not as good for literary purposes.

I don't know. If the intention is to understand literary references to the Bible, then the better you understand how other people are reading those verses, the more chance you'll catch the allusions in literature. Besides, getting to look at maps breaks up the monotony of some of the books.

Phobos

Feb17-05, 05:55 PM

What is the popular version that is usually read?

Tends to be Church-specific.
Personally, I'd recommend the Revised Standard Version (I'm not promoting a particular Church here...it's just a version I find easy to read yet still poetic).

And there are books right, like old testament new testament. Would the King James Bible include both? Also, what is the Bible that Christians go by (they go by the one with the old and new testaments right?): The majority of them that is, in the United States. Thanks.

The New Testament is what makes a Bible Christian.
The Old Testament is shared by the major religions of the world in different forms.

spender

Feb17-05, 10:46 PM

Astronuc

Feb17-05, 11:14 PM

With respect to the old testament, and interesting book to read is "The Bible Unearthed: Archaeology's New Vision of Ancient Israel and the Origin of Its Sacred Texts" by Israel Finkelstein and Neil Asher Silberman.

The chronology of the events in the old testament is analyzed and sometimes disputed with archeological evidence.

Understanding the old testament is necessary to understand some of the meaning in the new testament.

If one is just interested in the moral teachings of Jesus (Derech of Yeshua), then these can be found in the 4 gospels.

Then one should probably read the Qu'ran, Zend Avesta, Upanishads and Vedas, Tripitaka, Tao Te Ching, and the teachings of K'ung Fu-tzu, Meng Tzu and Chuang Tzu, and Baha-U-Llah and Abdul Baha. All deal with aspects of morality and ethical behavior.

franznietzsche

Feb17-05, 11:34 PM

I don't know. If the intention is to understand literary references to the Bible, then the better you understand how other people are reading those verses, the more chance you'll catch the allusions in literature.

Not really, since many allusions are directly related to the language of the bible. Reading a modern translation loses that.

brewnog

Feb18-05, 08:11 AM

For me old testament is complete BS (simply waste of paper and ink)

What are you on about?! There's some incredible stories in the old testament. If you take them at face value, and read them as stories, there's some damn good cheese!

Saying it's a waste of paper and ink is like saying Shakespeare is a waste of paper and ink. Stories spender. They're just stories.

I read The Very Hungry Caterpillar when I was small. It's a fantastic read, but that doesn't mean I'm some kind of caterpillar worshipping fiend!

Gokul43201

Feb18-05, 10:01 AM

No study of the Bible is complete unless you've read the Nag Hammadi Texts.

Astronuc

Feb18-05, 11:29 AM

No study of the Bible is complete unless you've read the Nag Hammadi Texts.Excellent point.

http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/nhl.html

http://www.nag-hammadi.com/

meteor

Feb18-05, 01:03 PM

2.Who the hell is king James...?

Don't worry about that, he didn't write the bible, he only commisioned it
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_James_Version

What is the fascination of most Americans with bible stuff ? In Europe if I told my friends that I intend to read bible I would be laughing stock.
Very true. One of the few correct things that you have said since you are at PF

the number 42

Feb18-05, 06:56 PM

GCT

Feb18-05, 08:13 PM

out of all the places, WHY are you trying to find a Bible here? There's something very fishy about your first post, moreover, an aura of intellectual stupor about this whole thread. I think that the OP's original intentions may have been altered by the remarks that were made by some of you-express yourself somewhere else.

Honestly, reading a Bible will not lower your IQ and it does not reflect stupidity on your part. Common sense should tell you what offends, otherwise you can discuss your interests here. Frequently what happens however, is that such discussions have proved to be very unproductive here at PF. I for one don't understand the utility of discussing such spiritual matters in an intellectual sense; in fact Atheist should never take part with Christians, both should just ignore each other (which brings me to an interesting sidetrack: what would atheists even discuss together without Christians, lol, how do you discuss the non-existence of God for its own sake?).

I found a better place for you to discuss such a topic, if your intention is to get a Bible try searching for a "christian forum" on google.

franznietzsche

Feb18-05, 08:28 PM

OK just so all you bible-bashers know, the OPs intent was for understanding literary reference's to the bible. You may be too uncultured, or too busy bashing americans and religion, but shakespeare is full of biblical references. Nietzsche, THE atheist philosopher, made many biblical allusions. Almost all worthwhile literature out of europe between 1600 and 1900 has biblical allusions. It was not until this century than biblical allusions seem to have passed out of style among the literary elite, although they are still made.

The bible is often alluded to because for centuries it was the common culture of the western world. If you wanted to make a metaphor everyone would understand, you put it in terms of the bible. Just because it is no longer the common culture does not mean that reading it to understand those metaphors is a bad idea. Ridicule it all you want, but it IS literature, if nothing else. And it is important to the literary tradition of the western world from the past 500 years.

Whether or not the religion is valid is absolutely irrelevant in this context. IT DOES NOT MATTER.

mattmns

Feb18-05, 08:49 PM

Find a bible in what sense? Find a bible in the sense of a free one: No I am not trying to find a free bible here (from a pf member, if that is what you mean). Find a bible in the sense of which one to read: I posted here because I thought I would get many points of view; there are obviously a lot of different people, cultures, beliefs, here. I did not post at a christian forum because I do not plan on reading the bible to be a christian, and I thought that a christian forum would have been more biased.

As far as I am concerned this thread can be locked, or deleted.

Integral

Feb18-05, 08:55 PM

What is the fascination of most Americans with bible stuff ? In Europe if I told my friends that I intend to read bible I would be laughing stock.Is America so naive as to take serriously this gibberish and utter nonsense.For me old testament is complete BS (simply waste of paper and ink),new testament also but has some slight improvements and parables still valid in our modern world.

I thought that France, Italy and Spain were all pretty strong Catholic populations. Perhaps, the difference is that the US is much more Protestant oriented. It is my understanding that one of the major differences between Protestant and Catholic is the personal access to the Bible, which is encouraged by one and discouraged by the other. So perhaps your disdain for reading the bible is fundamentally a religious stance.

I guess Americans are simply more independent thinkers, they prefer to analyze the original source and come to their own conclusions then to be instructed as in the thought controlled Catholic populations of the world.

See, I can make generalizations every bit as bad as yours.

franznietzsche

Feb18-05, 09:10 PM

See, I can make generalizations every bit as bad as yours.

Except i have a hunch he's not catholic. Atheist socialist europeans. PAH-TOOEY!!!

I'm all for atheism (though i'm definitely not all for socialism, but that's moot), but the bible bashing is just stupid. Its a book. To be honest, its literature. Is it scripture(in the metaphorical, not literal sense)? Not for me. Obviously not for you. But it still has value as a book. It'd be like me refusing to read Marx because those dappy socialists are destroying everything good on this earth. No, Marx has his value, and so does the Bible.

dextercioby

Feb18-05, 09:13 PM

It would be okay if it had,let's say 200 pages,but 1500...??:surprised: :yuck:

Daniel.

P.S.I think it would make a better sale,of one was to write:"The shortest version of Bible". :uhh: :tongue2:

Astronuc

Feb18-05, 09:30 PM

One could buy just the new testament portion.

And the 4 gospels are available on-line. One of the websites I posted lets one choose which version to read.

franznietzsche

Feb18-05, 09:33 PM

It would be okay if it had,let's say 200 pages,but 1500...??:surprised: :yuck:

Daniel.

P.S.I think it would make a better sale,of one was to write:"The shortest version of Bible". :uhh: :tongue2:

Which defeats the entire point.

And the bible is not a full 1500 pages. I've seen michener books thicker than bibles at the same page and font size, and those were only 1200.

mattmns

Feb18-05, 09:35 PM

I bet there is a translation of the bible that is 200 pages. However, the point is to read a nice long poetic story, there is no need to rush it. I remember reading a translation of The Iliad that was 600-700 pages, yes there was a 200-300 page version, but if you are going to read the book for youself you might as well enjoy it.

franznietzsche

Feb18-05, 09:37 PM

However, the point is to read a nice long poetic story, there is no need to rush

Something that is lost completely on these epistemophobes.

Bartholomew

Feb18-05, 10:18 PM

Welll, a 200 page bible takes less time to read... and if you read a 200 page bible and a 300 page Iliad then you can read 700 pages of something else.

franznietzsche

Feb18-05, 10:20 PM

Welll, a 200 page bible takes less time to read... and if you read a 200 page bible and a 300 page Iliad then you can read 700 pages of something else.

I weep for the plight of humanity.

Bartholomew

Feb18-05, 10:24 PM

Myth like the Bible has a great attraction to it... the sifting images of strange and fundamental cultures... but eventually you realize that your own thoughts are as unique as the thoughts of whatever some great mythologist wrote, and you stop caring. Myth study is just a hobby.

franznietzsche

Feb18-05, 10:33 PM

Bartholomew

Feb18-05, 10:58 PM

what point might that be?

franznietzsche

Feb18-05, 11:22 PM

what point might that be?

If you haven't gotten it yet, you're not going to, and i know better than to waste my time forcing intellectualism into people that just don't get it.

Integral

Feb18-05, 11:51 PM

Welll, a 200 page bible takes less time to read... and if you read a 200 page bible and a 300 page Iliad then you can read 700 pages of something else.
Like 30 comic books?

Astronuc

Feb19-05, 12:10 AM

Like 30 comic books?Like the Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers (http://www.ripoffpress.com/) - Freewheelin' Frank, Phineas Freek and Fat Freddy. :biggrin:

Also, try Freaknet (http://www.freaknet.org.uk/pages01/p02/gl01.html)

Integral

Feb19-05, 12:23 AM

Like the Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers (http://www.ripoffpress.com/) - Freewheelin' Frank, Phineas Freek and Fat Freddy. :biggrin:

Also, try Freaknet (http://www.freaknet.org.uk/pages01/p02/gl01.html)
Humm... is this the hooka thread? Or am I lost?

Looks like some good reading though....As soon as I get finished with the bible and Gibbon I'll get to it.

GCT

Feb19-05, 12:23 AM

I don't believe that anyone, including Christians themselves, read the Bible for fun.......for most, it has a spiritual significance, especially in the US such "significance" pertains to the position an individual takes in society-God or no God-a sociological significance. The simple fact is that for the most part, this strange issue contributes to social cohesion of society as a whole. It really has no seriousness to it outside of its own realm, yet everyone takes it personally (really, what can one say when asked the question? There are not many options-yes,no, don't want to talk about it-but why does one even give a concrete answer to such a question.......as if the question made sense in the first place), it seems to have a paradoxical element to it. There also seems to be a 'humorous' aspect to it all. It's quite a phenomena to me.
I never favored to discuss the Bible as a theologian would, or as a literary text, never liked theologians.

Gokul43201

Feb19-05, 12:46 AM

I don't believe that anyone, including Christians themselves, read the Bible for fun.......
I read the Bible for fun...not that I read all of it. But I did read the entire OT (skipping a couple of the begats here and there) and about 60% of the NT.

Moonbear

Feb19-05, 02:20 AM

I read the Bible for fun...not that I read all of it. But I did read the entire OT (skipping a couple of the begats here and there) and about 60% of the NT.

Well, I haven't read the whole thing yet, but I've read about 1/3 of it so far, along with some skipping around the New Testament. I consider it an interesting historical document; essentially a set of laws written down for ancient people to follow. The threat of God's wrath was just embellishment to get the unruly masses to listen to their kings. The New Testament turns more into religious propaganda, but the Old Testament includes rules that made a lot of sense for the time they were written. A lot of it really dealt with simple hygiene issues.

I also find many parts of it interesting because of my perspective as a scientist. You can see how the people at the time it was written viewed the world around them. There are descriptions of things that, for example, sound a lot like tornados and water spouts, but instead are described as the water funneling up to the heavens, or something like that. I find it amusing that it's almost like they made the first, even if misguided, attempt at biological classification systems too. For example, things with wings all seem to get lumped together (birds and flying insects), things that creep (including non-flying insects) get lumped together. They distinguish between animals with and without cloven hooves, etc. I actually think you'd miss that level of information and detail if you read it from a purely religious standpoint.

Bartholomew

Feb19-05, 09:58 AM

If you haven't gotten it yet, you're not going to, and i know better than to waste my time forcing intellectualism into people that just don't get it.
I already consider myself an intellectual, because of what I, personally, can think. There is no intrinsic intellectual value to reading literature, and particularly not in reading thousands of pages of the same book. All philosophical ideas can be summarized in a few pages.

Wardw

Feb19-05, 10:37 AM

Are the books that never made it into the bible available?. Although not a christian, I know that there are many that were not included by Constantine that the Vatican still hold but I don't know if they were ever released or remain firmly hidden away in the vaults of the Vatican.

spender

Feb19-05, 01:19 PM

I already consider myself an intellectual, because of what I, personally, can think.

There is nothing intellectual in reading bible, it just takes time, your nerves(big time) and clenched fists while you say to yourself- **** !! how I'm gonna make it thru all this garbage ?
This happened to me when I started reading Illiad, but with every page turned I found story interesting and intriguing.Idon't think bible has the same value it only teaches greed and shows human corruption while pretending to be the word of God !?

Janitor

Feb19-05, 01:28 PM

... A lot of it really dealt with simple hygiene issues...

Indeed, one of the O.T. books (Leviticus?) deals extensively with how to recognize leprosy and also what to do if mold (?) appears on the walls of one's house.

Given the primitive state of sewerage in Biblical times, I am a little surprised that there doesn't seem to be commandments dealing with that particular issue. "Thou shall not squat within five and fifty cubits of the stream from which mine people drink the waters which refreshest." That sort of thing.