9 Billion-Year-Old Galaxy Discovered

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the discovery of a 9 billion-year-old galaxy, specifically focusing on its redshift of 1.4 and its implications for understanding galaxy formation and clusters in the early universe. Participants explore the significance of this finding in relation to previous discoveries of older galaxies and clusters, as well as the methods used to identify such distant objects.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that Roser Pello's earlier claim of a galaxy at z=10 was significant, and they express skepticism about the current claim of a galaxy at z=1.4 being record-breaking.
  • It is mentioned that galaxy clusters are believed to have begun forming at z=2, suggesting that the newly discovered cluster is indeed distant but not the farthest known.
  • One participant references another article claiming redshifts greater than 2 for other sources, indicating ongoing exploration of high-redshift galaxies.
  • Concerns are raised about the implications of luminosity claims exceeding 10 trillion solar luminosities, questioning the validity of such estimates.
  • Another participant corrects a previous assertion about the distance of the galaxy cluster, stating that a more distant cluster was discovered recently, which existed only 1 billion years after the Big Bang.
  • There is interest in determining when the first galaxy clusters formed, reflecting a desire for deeper understanding of cosmic evolution.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying degrees of skepticism and curiosity regarding the significance of the 9 billion-year-old galaxy discovery, with some asserting it is not the most distant cluster known. Multiple competing views remain about the implications of redshift measurements and the context of galaxy formation.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved questions about the assumptions underlying redshift interpretations and the definitions of distance in cosmology. Participants reference various studies and articles, indicating a complex landscape of ongoing research.

marcus
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http://www.physicsweb.org/articles/news/9/3/2/1

title: "Galaxies break new records"

Last year Roser Pello's team at the Pyrennees Observatory thought they had found a 10 billion year old galaxy IIRC, but this was later challenged [CORRECTION: hellfire reminded me that Roser thought she had found one at z=10, it wasnt 10 billion LY but z=10 which is much more remarkable]

now according to a news item some people at European Southern say they'v found one 9 billion years old. I am not sure this makes sense or that I understand correctly. It looks to me that they are claiming redshift 1.4, which would not be record-breaking. Am I missing something?

"Christopher Mullis of the University of Michigan and co-workers at the European Southern Observatory (ESO) discovered the distant cluster by sifting through old images from the XMM-Newton satellite. They looked for large X-ray sources that had not been studied before and then took a series of follow-up images of 30 candidate galaxies at optical wavelengths with ESO's Very Large Telescope (VLT) in Chile. One of these galaxies - now named XMMU J2235.3-2557 - had a redshift of 1.4, which means that it is nine billion light years away and must have formed when the universe was less than a third of its present age. Moreover, the spherical shape of the cluster implies that it has a well-organised and mature structure (Astrophysical Journal to be published)."

Here is the technical article mentioned in the article
http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0503004

here is a webpage with more info and some pictures
http://www.astro.lsa.umich.edu/~cmullis/research/xmmuj2235/
 
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Roser Pello's galaxy (or protogalaxy) was postulated to be located at z = 10, which means it supposed to be more than 13 Gyr old. This 9 Gyr old galaxy (at 9 GLyr of light travel distance) is located at z = 1.4 within a galaxy cluster. As far as I know, it is believed that galaxy clusters began forming at z = 2. Thus, this is actually a far cluster, but I think it is not the farthest cluster discovered till now (the paper claims that it is the "the most distant X-ray-selected cluster found to date").
 
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Hellfire, thanks for jogging my memory about that Roser Pello thing.
It was the z=10 that was so astonishing there.
this z= 1.4 is not all that much----9 billion LY. according to the usual assumptions

Here is another related article where the claim is z > 2
http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0502216

Spectroscopic Redshifts to z > 2 for Optically Obscured Sources Discovered with the Spitzer Space Telescope
J. R. Houck, B. T. Soifer, D. Weedman,...et al
Accepted for publication on 7 Feb 2005 in ApJL. 7 pages 2 figures

"We have surveyed a field covering 9.0 degrees^2 within the NOAO Deep Wide-Field Survey region in Bootes with the Multiband Imaging Photometer on the Spitzer Space Telescope (SST) to a limiting 24 um flux density of 0.3 mJy. Thirty one sources from this survey with F(24um) > 0.75 mJy which are optically very faint (R > 24.5 mag) have been observed with the low-resolution modules of the Infrared Spectrograph on SST. Redshifts derived primarily from strong silicate absorption features are reported here for 17 of these sources; 10 of these are optically invisible (R > 26 mag), with no counterpart in B_W, R, or I. The observed redshifts for 16 sources are 1.7 < z < 2.8. These represent a newly discovered population of highly obscured sources at high redshift with extreme infrared to optical ratios. Using IRS spectra of local galaxies as templates, we find that a majority of the sources have mid-infrared spectral shapes most similar to ultraluminous infrared galaxies powered primarily by AGN. Assuming the same templates also apply at longer wavelengths, bolometric luminosities exceed 10^13 L(solar)."
 
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marcus said:
Assuming the same templates also apply at longer wavelengths, bolometric luminosities exceed 10^13 L(solar)."
Huh? Luminosity of over 10 Trillion suns?
 
but I think it is not the farthest cluster discovered till now
You're true, the article of marcus is wrong. The most distant galaxy cluster known was discovered a few days ago, and existed 1 billion years after Big Bang (see the news of 17 february of this article)
http://astronomy.com/default.aspx?c=a&id=2851
See also
http://www.universetoday.com/am/publish/galaxy_clusters_early.html?1722005
Ok, introducing an age at redshift equal to 1 billion year in the Cosmology calculator
http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/CosmoCalc.html
This implies for this cluster a redshift of z=5.8
That is, a comoving radial distance of 27.1 Gly

It would be nice to know when exactly formed the first galaxy cluster
 
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