UK Gov Introduces 24-Hour Drinking

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the UK government's introduction of 24-hour drinking licenses for certain establishments. Participants explore the implications of this policy, including its potential effects on public health, personal freedom, and societal behavior regarding alcohol consumption.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express concern that 24-hour drinking could lead to impaired judgment and increased risks of alcohol toxicity and dehydration.
  • Others argue that the policy allows for personal freedom and choice, particularly for shift workers who may benefit from late-night options.
  • A participant shares a personal anecdote about the dangers of alcohol consumption in the workplace, highlighting safety issues related to intoxicated workers.
  • Another viewpoint suggests that the existence of 24-hour drinking does not necessarily correlate with increased alcoholism, as those with addiction issues may drink regardless of bar hours.
  • Some participants question the practicality and profitability of bars remaining open 24 hours, citing concerns about noise and neighborhood disruption.
  • There is a mention of cultural differences in drinking habits, with one participant referencing experiences in Finland to illustrate varying societal norms around alcohol consumption.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally express mixed views on the introduction of 24-hour drinking, with no consensus reached. Some support the idea for its potential benefits, while others raise significant concerns about public health and safety.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight various assumptions, such as the relationship between bar hours and alcoholism, the impact on neighborhood dynamics, and the responsibilities of individuals in managing their alcohol consumption.

the number 42
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The UK government is to bring in 24 hour drinking. This doesn't mean its compulsory to drink all day and be on a beer-drip all night, just that some places will have a license to serve alcohol all day & night. Bearing in mind that the legal drinking age over here is 18:

1/ Do you think 24 hour drinking is a good idea, and
2/ Hey - party up guys! Get your visas and I'll see you at the Dog & Duck at 4am sharp :biggrin:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/1879457.stm
 
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Do you think 24 hour drinking is a good idea?
No, that is a bad idea. The question might as well be - "Do you think being drunk (having impaired judgement) is a good idea?" On top of being drunk, one will be sleep deprived.

And then there is the issue of alcohol toxicity (poisoning). Drinking too much alcohol in a given period can lead to dehydration and loss of electrolytes.
 
:biggrin: I think it's a good idea, a man who got kicked out of the house by his lady will at least have a place to drown his sorrow and crash for a while.
 
Astronuc said:
No, that is a bad idea. The question might as well be - "Do you think being drunk (having impaired judgement) is a good idea?" On top of being drunk, one will be sleep deprived.

And then there is the issue of alcohol toxicity (poisoning). Drinking too much alcohol in a given period can lead to dehydration and loss of electrolytes.

Like I said, 24 hour drinking isn't going to be compulsory. What about freedom of choice? What about shift-workers?
 
In some industries such as nuclear and aerospace, we have a requirement for 'fitness-for-duty'. If a worker shows up intoxicated (impaired), he/she can be fired (or in some cases just suspended pending treatment).

I used to work construction. One of the workers used to show up in the morning after drinking (he claimed a 6-pack of beer). He was not very useful on the iron (safety issue), so he did ground work. Well, he managed to rewire some of our drills and screw motors. However, he switched the ground wire and hot(live electrical) wires. One of my coworkers working on the edge of a metal roof got electrocuted (he could have easily fallen over the edge - 10 m to the ground). I was working on an aluminum ladder about 9 meters above ground, sweating profusely, when I got electrocuted. My legs almost collapsed. Fortunately I fell against the ladder, dropped the drill and caught myself rather than falling backwards.

Our drunk colleague was dismissed. His 'freedom of choice' (and total lack of responsibility) almost killed my friend and me. Yeah, I suppose we could have made allowances for him being drunk and unable to work. But why?

What is the policy for someone who wants to drink for a long period of time?

I certainly don't drink as much as I did during my first years of college. Even then though, I would confine my social drinking to the end of the week or weekend. During the week, I would drink a few beers perhaps, but usually with food. Now I will occassionally drink one or two beers after work (or on weekends), but not evey day, and it is often with dinner.
 
You should be able to have a glass of wine with your lunch right? That's what keeps the meditarranian young :wink:
 
Astronuc said:
In some industries such as nuclear and aerospace, we have a requirement for 'fitness-for-duty'. If a worker shows up intoxicated (impaired), he/she can be fired (or in some cases just suspended pending treatment).

I used to work construction. One of the workers used to show up in the morning after drinking (he claimed a 6-pack of beer). He was not very useful on the iron (safety issue), so he did ground work. Well, he managed to rewire some of our drills and screw motors. However, he switched the ground wire and hot(live electrical) wires. One of my coworkers working on the edge of a metal roof got electrocuted (he could have easily fallen over the edge - 10 m to the ground). I was working on an aluminum ladder about 9 meters above ground, sweating profusely, when I got electrocuted. My legs almost collapsed. Fortunately I fell against the ladder, dropped the drill and caught myself rather than falling backwards.

Our drunk colleague was dismissed. His 'freedom of choice' (and total lack of responsibility) almost killed my friend and me. Yeah, I suppose we could have made allowances for him being drunk and unable to work. But why?

What is the policy for someone who wants to drink for a long period of time?

I certainly don't drink as much as I did during my first years of college. Even then though, I would confine my social drinking to the end of the week or weekend. During the week, I would drink a few beers perhaps, but usually with food. Now I will occassionally drink one or two beers after work (or on weekends), but not evey day, and it is often with dinner.

:smile: Good one. I suppose you are saying that society can't be trusted not to drink to excess if bars were open 24 hours. My local shop is open 24 hours; do I buy more than I want because of this?
 
the number 42 said:
:smile: Good one. I suppose you are saying that society can't be trusted not to drink to excess if bars were open 24 hours. My local shop is open 24 hours; do I buy more than I want because of this?

Oi, you all have not seen drinking before you've been to Finland. :cool: Here it is of custom that you get your alcohol fix instead of that smoky thingy. It is really dreadful to be out in a club after 02 or something (they close at 04)... I can't imagine what would happen if they could be open all night.
 
As with anything, the initial knee-jerk response is often an oversimplification of the situation. I'll start out by saying the issue of alcoholism probably isn't that relevant even though that's the first thing to come to mind when thinking of someone out drinking at 6 AM, as someone that addicted is going to drink at home as well, or hit a point where they are still going to be passed out in the gutter whether the bar is still open or not. Closing the bar for a few hours isn't really preventing alcoholism.

I can't really think of too many reasons bars would want to stay open 24 hours; the owner wants to go home some time, they need a few hours to clean the place each day, some time to tally up receipts, etc. In addition, it's really not profitable to stay open during hours when there are only one or two people in the place. On the other hand, it would give owners the flexibility to tailor their hours to when they think it is most profitable to be open.

The downside is that one of the reasons bar hours are limited in many places has little to do with concerns regarding alcoholism, but because of the noise associated with a lot of drunken people walking around outside such an establishment. It may depend on the location. If the pub/bar is in a neighborhood where there are houses and apartments nearby, it would be very disruptive to the neighbors if they can't count on the place being closed and quiet by 2 AM (or whatever hour). If they are in some location where there are no residences around, then this is less of an issue. It also requires more security or police patrols, since brawls do break out among inebriated people, so this stretches the hours that police will be out picking up the brawling drunks.

On the other hand, if this relates in general to alcohol sales, and not necessarily just serving drinks (i.e., can you also buy a bottle or 6-pack to go?), then it may be convenient for someone who is planning a dinner party and out at 8 AM doing their shopping for it to be able to pick up the bottle of wine then rather than having to wait and go back out at noon, when they may already be busy preparing food and unable to leave the kitchen unattended. There are plenty of people who would buy alcohol in the morning with no intent to consume it until evening, or maybe not even the same day if they just prefer to do their weekly shopping early on a Saturday morning. In my house, the largest consumption of alcohol is wine that I use for cooking not drinking, so I periodically stock up on some inexpensive wines for that purpose.

Ultimately, I think hours bars should remain open are best addressed at the local community level where consideration of who the bar has as neighbors is taken into account when determining what is acceptable to the community.
 
  • #10
Moonbear said:
As with anything, the initial knee-jerk response is often an oversimplification of the situation. ... Closing the bar for a few hours isn't really preventing alcoholism...

True. If you are a wino, you're still a wino whether in Suadi or in France, and will find drink accordingly. Also, the rapid drinking up time in pubs here (last orders 11pm, kicked out 11.20pm) is blamed for a lot of the drunkeness as people have to drink that much quicker, and kicking everyone out at the same time doesn't create for peacefullness on the streets. Of course there are later licences for clubs already, but the mayhem is more concentrated around the pubs at closing time.

Moonbear said:
I can't really think of too many reasons bars would want to stay open 24 hours; the owner wants to go home some time...

True, and I think only about a fifth of bars have applied for the extended licence.

Moonbear said:
The downside is that one of the reasons bar hours are limited in many places has little to do with concerns regarding alcoholism, but because of the noise associated with a lot of drunken people walking around outside such an establishment.

Local residents will have a say in who gets a licence.

Moonbear said:
... it may be convenient for someone who is planning a dinner party and out at 8 AM doing their shopping for it to be able to pick up the bottle of wine then rather than having to wait and go back out at noon...

The same applies to anyone who works outside the 9-5 shift.

Good to see balanced views being expressed. (Mine, not yours Moonbear :biggrin:).

I personally would expect a bit of a rise in drunkeness at first due to the sheer novelty value of 24 hour drinking, but after that I think people would make up their own drinking hours. I have more faith in people than to think society would collapse just because licencing hours were relaxed.
 
  • #11
Joel said:
Oi, you all have not seen drinking before you've been to Finland. :cool: Here it is of custom that you get your alcohol fix instead of that smoky thingy. It is really dreadful to be out in a club after 02 or something (they close at 04)... I can't imagine what would happen if they could be open all night.

Every culture is different, and giving the UK the same laws as in France etc doesn't mean we all start drinking like the French. And remember, there are more kinds of correlation than the linear i.e. longer drinking hours doesn't necessarily mean more drunkeness. It will be interesting to see how things develop here.
 
  • #12
the number 42 said:
Also, the rapid drinking up time in pubs here (last orders 11pm, kicked out 11.20pm) is blamed for a lot of the drunkeness as people have to drink that much quicker, and kicking everyone out at the same time doesn't create for peacefullness on the streets.

I noticed that in Britain. I've also noticed the same habits among my British friends living in the US. They seem to drink more heavily in a shorter amount of time, and when it gets close to 11 PM, suddenly everyone is ordering two and three rounds of drinks to down in the next 20 min. Nobody seems sober when they leave, in contrast to in the US where bars are open until 2 or 3 AM and people don't all leave at the same time, many call it a night long before then while others are still in the bar but already sobering up on coffee or water, so you don't suddenly have this huge crowd of all very drunk people tossed out to the street at the same time.
 
  • #13
Isn't there 24 hour drinking in the casinos in Las Vegas?

You can buy liquor here 24 hours at some stores.

I don't think the hours of operation are the problem as much as if bar owners fail to notice when a patron is drunk and allow them to continue to drink. I know here in the US, due to fear of lawsuits, they will stop serving alcohol to someone that appears to have had one too many.
 
  • #14
I suppose you are saying that society can't be trusted not to drink to excess if bars were open 24 hours.
Some people cannot be trusted to drink responsibly.

I have been in Europe for conferences, business meetings and projects. We often had a beer or glass of wine with lunch, and then we would go out for dinner and have a few more beers or glasses of wine with dinner. But we would not be drinking 8 or more beers during the evening (something I did while I was during early years of college, but usually only on Thursday (if no homework due or test Friday), Friday or Saturday). Generally, the chaps in the UK would drink much more than other Europeans (several pints of beer and several glasses of Scotch was typical).

Isn't there 24 hour drinking in the casinos in Las Vegas?
Apparently that is so.

Keeping bars open 24 hrs per day would seem to be tacit approval for more drinking.
 
  • #15
I'm all for it. The reasons have been mentioned, but I think landlords should be given the choice, and it will definitely reduce the public disturbances in residential areas when we get kicked out at 11.30 and spill out onto the streets.

Now then, when can I do my late night Tesco shopping, and buy a few crates, or bottles of wine?
 
  • #16
Moonbear said:
I've also noticed the same habits among my British friends living in the US. They seem to drink more heavily in a shorter amount of time, and when it gets close to 11 PM, suddenly everyone is ordering two and three rounds of drinks to down in the next 20 min.

You know we ring a bell to give notice of 'last orders'? Pavlov would love it :biggrin:
 
  • #17
the number 42 said:
You know we ring a bell to give notice of 'last orders'? Pavlov would love it :biggrin:

Haha, I'd never connected the two before, very observant of you #42.

"Last orders gentlemen thank you" and there's a stampede. I've always been one for a pre-emptive strike on the bar at 10.45.
 
  • #18
the number 42 said:
Every culture is different, and giving the UK the same laws as in France etc doesn't mean we all start drinking like the French. And remember, there are more kinds of correlation than the linear i.e. longer drinking hours doesn't necessarily mean more drunkeness. It will be interesting to see how things develop here.

Oh yeah, your conclusion in your replay to MB sounds reasonable, the novelty may first be (ab)used to increase drinking and then settle to 'normal'.

But regarding drinking habits; I don't know about England, but are the French really hard dinkers? My experience from Italy, Belgian friends and Swiss cousins suggests that non of them has the primary interest of getting drunk - unlike Finns. Often party is synonymous to getting very drunk here, not just in teen-ages. If that is the case, then longer opening hours for bars may actually be better for drunks, since they can safely pass out in the bar and not out in the cold winter. (I remember the same argument was here used to support a lower legal age for drinking - the teens wouldn't have to stand out in the park getting drunk. It didn't pass, but drinking in public places became illegal).

But on the other hand, maybe it's safe to stop parties in clubs at 02 or 04. If you're out, having a few energy drinks and maybe something else, you may not know when it's time to stop. An article about caffeine in National Geographics hinted that it may not be too healthy to consume much of that, with alcohol and heavy physical straining. Could there be these kinds of health concerns with 24h open clubs?
 
  • #19
I am all for it, but I don't see why they want to introduce it as all the binge drinking stuff has been all over the papers etc.
Strange...
 
  • #20
Likely because more money will be made from alcohol related taxes than will be spent combating the associated increase in healthcare requirements.
 
  • #21
the number 42 said:
The UK government is to bring in 24 hour drinking. This doesn't mean its compulsory to drink all day and be on a beer-drip all night, just that some places will have a license to serve alcohol all day & night. Bearing in mind that the legal drinking age over here is 18:

1/ Do you think 24 hour drinking is a good idea, and
2/ Hey - party up guys! Get your visas and I'll see you at the Dog & Duck at 4am sharp :biggrin:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/1879457.stm
It's like they have those radio commercials...
"Don't drink and drive"
"If you drink and drive, you deserve to die."
Well, if you drink, you deserve to die, as you're intoxicating your body purposely and pretty much asking for it...
...and it's nice to see the UK finally wants to give people the helping hand! :smile:
 

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