View Full Version : MathML (was Re: Internet 2, Archives & On-Line Publication)
Max Froumentin
Apr20-05, 12:30 AM
<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','toolbar=no, location=no,scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no ,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usenet ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>whopkins@csd.uwm.edu writes:\n\n> Also, has MathML reached the threshold of acceptability\n> for bona fide publication, or is this still a ways off?\n\nI assume you mean using XHTML+MathML on your home page to publish your\nwork. If that\'s right I\'d say it is indeed acceptable. I work for W3C\nso I\'m biased, but I do believe that the last hurdle is writing your\nmathml. You probably won\'t want to write the source by hand, so you\'ll\nbe using an editor (like W3C\'s Amaya), or a converter, although\nI don\'t know of any good solution to convert from LaTeX (but see\n<http://www.w3.org/Math/Software/mathml_software_cat_converters.html>\nfor acceptable attempts).\n\nWhat\'s new and will probably change things are MathML enabled blogs\nand Wikis, who are going to make it simple to have MathML published,\nwith a simple authoring syntax for maths (see\n<http://www.w3.org/Math/#item46> and\n<http://uniwakka.sourceforge.net/>)\n\nAs for who is going to be able to view your document, as long as your\npages use the convention explained in <http://www.w3.org/XSL>, they\ncan be viewed in firefox (natively) and explorer (with the mathplayer\nplug-in). That covers a lot of the browser market.\n\nHope this helps,\n\nMax.\n\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form"> View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky>whopkins@csd.uwm.edu writes:
> Also, has MathML reached the threshold of acceptability
> for bona fide publication, or is this still a ways off?
I assume you mean using XHTML+MathML on your home page to publish your
work. If that's right I'd say it is indeed acceptable. I work for W3C
so I'm biased, but I do believe that the last hurdle is writing your
mathml. You probably won't want to write the source by hand, so you'll
be using an editor (like W3C's Amaya), or a converter, although
I don't know of any good solution to convert from LaTeX (but see
<http://www.w3.org/Math/Software/mathml_software_cat_converters.html>
for acceptable attempts).
What's new and will probably change things are MathML enabled blogs
and Wikis, who are going to make it simple to have MathML published,
with a simple authoring syntax for maths (see
<http://www.w3.org/Math/#item46> and
<http://uniwakka.sourceforge.net/>)
As for who is going to be able to view your document, as long as your
pages use the convention explained in <http://www.w3.org/XSL>, they
can be viewed in firefox (natively) and explorer (with the mathplayer
plug-in). That covers a lot of the browser market.
Hope this helps,
Max.
Urs Schreiber
Apr21-05, 04:26 PM
<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','toolbar=no, location=no,scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no ,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usenet ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>"Max Froumentin" <mf@w3.org> schrieb im Newsbeitrag\nnews:871x9710ls.fsf@w3.org...\n\n\n> What\'s new and will probably change things are MathML enabled blogs\n> and Wikis, who are going to make it simple to have MathML published,\n> with a simple authoring syntax for maths (see\n> <http://www.w3.org/Math/#item46> and\n> <http://uniwakka.sourceforge.net/>)\n\n\nJacques Distler has worked hard over the years to make the LaTeX to MathML\nconversion as smooth as possible (in the context of weblogs) using a tool\ncalled itex2MML.\n\nJust recently there was a new release with more improvements:\n\nhttp://golem.ph.utexas.edu/~distler/blog/archives/000556.html .\n\nThis technology is currently in operation on his weblog\n\nhttp://golem.ph.utexas.edu/~distler/blog/\n\nas well as on the String Coffee Table\n\nhttp://golem.ph.utexas.edu/string/ .\n\nIt is in principle possible to create paper-like documents with this\ntechnology and publish them online. See for instance Aaron Bergman\'s recent\ndiscussion of wormholes here:\n\nhttp://golem.ph.utexas.edu/string/archives/000550.html .\n\nDespite immense progress it is however not yet possible to feed an\nentire LaTeX document into itex2MML and get an equivalent XHTML+MathML\ndocument out of it. For instance itex2MML does not support (yet) macros\nor things like \\section, \\paragraph, etc.\n\nWhat the existing technology however is very well suited for is\ndiscussion of mathy stuff on the net.\n\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form"> View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky>"Max Froumentin" <mf@w3.org> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:871x9710ls.fsf@w3.org...
> What's new and will probably change things are MathML enabled blogs
> and Wikis, who are going to make it simple to have MathML published,
> with a simple authoring syntax for maths (see
> <http://www.w3.org/Math/#item46> and
> <http://uniwakka.sourceforge.net/>)
Jacques Distler has worked hard over the years to make the LaTeX to MathML
conversion as smooth as possible (in the context of weblogs) using a tool
called itex2MML.
Just recently there was a new release with more improvements:
http://golem.ph.utexas.edu/~distler/blog/archives/000556.html .
This technology is currently in operation on his weblog
http://golem.ph.utexas.edu/~distler/blog/
as well as on the String Coffee Table
http://golem.ph.utexas.edu/string/ .
It is in principle possible to create paper-like documents with this
technology and publish them online. See for instance Aaron Bergman's recent
discussion of wormholes here:
http://golem.ph.utexas.edu/string/archives/000550.html .
Despite immense progress it is however not yet possible to feed an
entire LaTeX document into itex2MML and get an equivalent XHTML+MathML
document out of it. For instance itex2MML does not support (yet) macros
or things like \section, \paragraph, etc.
What the existing technology however is very well suited for is
discussion of mathy stuff on the net.
Igor Khavkine
Apr23-05, 07:08 AM
<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','toolbar=no, location=no,scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no ,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usenet ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>On 2005-04-21, Urs Schreiber <Urs.Schreiber@uni-essen.de> wrote:\n> "Max Froumentin" <mf@w3.org> schrieb im Newsbeitrag\n> news:871x9710ls.fsf@w3.org...\n>\n>\n>> What\'s new and will probably change things are MathML enabled blogs\n>> and Wikis, who are going to make it simple to have MathML published,\n>> with a simple authoring syntax for maths (see\n>> <http://www.w3.org/Math/#item46> and\n>> <http://uniwakka.sourceforge.net/>)\n>\n> Jacques Distler has worked hard over the years to make the LaTeX to MathML\n> conversion as smooth as possible (in the context of weblogs) using a tool\n> called itex2MML.\n>\n> Just recently there was a new release with more improvements:\n\n> Despite immense progress it is however not yet possible to feed an\n> entire LaTeX document into itex2MML and get an equivalent XHTML+MathML\n> document out of it. For instance itex2MML does not support (yet) macros\n> or things like \\section, \\paragraph, etc.\n\nI believe TeX4ht[1] claims to do just that. I\'ve tested it briefly and\nit appeared to work for simple things, but I use if for\nconversion into HTML+images, so I don\'t know how it deals with more\ncomplicated documents. However, one advantage of this program is that it\nis actually built on top of TeX itself, so it understands all the fancy\nmacros natively.\n\nIgor\n\n[1] http://www.cse.ohio-state.edu/~gurari/TeX4ht/mn.html\n\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form"> View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky>On 2005-04-21, Urs Schreiber <Urs.Schreiber@uni-essen.de> wrote:
> "Max Froumentin" <mf@w3.org> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> news:871x9710ls.fsf@w3.org...
>
>
>> What's new and will probably change things are MathML enabled blogs
>> and Wikis, who are going to make it simple to have MathML published,
>> with a simple authoring syntax for maths (see
>> <http://www.w3.org/Math/#item46> and
>> <http://uniwakka.sourceforge.net/>)
>
> Jacques Distler has worked hard over the years to make the LaTeX to MathML
> conversion as smooth as possible (in the context of weblogs) using a tool
> called itex2MML.
>
> Just recently there was a new release with more improvements:
> Despite immense progress it is however not yet possible to feed an
> entire LaTeX document into itex2MML and get an equivalent XHTML+MathML
> document out of it. For instance itex2MML does not support (yet) macros
> or things like \section, \paragraph, etc.
I believe TeX4ht[1] claims to do just that. I've tested it briefly and
it appeared to work for simple things, but I use if for
conversion into HTML+images, so I don't know how it deals with more
complicated documents. However, one advantage of this program is that it
is actually built on top of TeX itself, so it understands all the fancy
macros natively.
Igor
[1] http://www.cse.ohio-state.edu/~gurari/TeX4ht/mn.html
whopkins@csd.uwm.edu
Apr23-05, 08:17 PM
<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','toolbar=no, location=no,scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no ,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usenet ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>Max Froumentin wrote:\n> whopkins@csd.uwm.edu writes:\n> > Also, has MathML reached the threshold of acceptability\n> > for bona fide publication, or is this still a ways off?\n>\n> I assume you mean using XHTML+MathML on your home page to publish\nyour\n> work.\n\n"Suitability for publication" in the question asked meant publication\nto ArXiv and on-line submission to journals; and the use of MathML for\nthose who don\'t have, can\'t get or don\'t want TeX.\n\nThe latest update on the situation regarding on-line submissions I\'ve\nseen is that other than TeX, some journals may take Word (with a\ncertain equation editor), and a few may even still accept hand-written\nletters. I don\'t know of any yet who are geared for MathML or any of\nits successors.\n\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form"> View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky>Max Froumentin wrote:
> whopkins@csd.uwm.edu writes:
> > Also, has MathML reached the threshold of acceptability
> > for bona fide publication, or is this still a ways off?
>
> I assume you mean using XHTML+MathML on your home page to publish
your
> work.
"Suitability for publication" in the question asked meant publication
to ArXiv and on-line submission to journals; and the use of MathML for
those who don't have, can't get or don't want TeX.
The latest update on the situation regarding on-line submissions I've
seen is that other than TeX, some journals may take Word (with a
certain equation editor), and a few may even still accept hand-written
letters. I don't know of any yet who are geared for MathML or any of
its successors.
ebunn@lfa221051.richmond.edu
Apr24-05, 11:51 AM
<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','toolbar=no, location=no,scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no ,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usenet ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>In article <1114292714.491328.35380@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups. com>,\n<whopkins@csd.uwm.edu> wrote:\n\n>"Suitability for publication" in the question asked meant publication\n>to ArXiv and on-line submission to journals; and the use of MathML for\n>those who don\'t have, can\'t get or don\'t want TeX.\n\nI can understand "don\'t want," but who "can\'t get" it? TeX / LaTeX\nis available for free on all platforms I know about, with the\npossible exception of non-OS X Macs, where you might have\nto shell out \\$30 for a shareware license for OzTex.\n\n-Ted\n\n--\n[E-mail me at name@domain.edu, as opposed to name@machine.domain.edu.]\n\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form"> View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky>In article <1114292714.491328.35380@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.c om>,
<whopkins@csd.uwm.edu> wrote:
>"Suitability for publication" in the question asked meant publication
>to ArXiv and on-line submission to journals; and the use of MathML for
>those who don't have, can't get or don't want TeX.
I can understand "don't want," but who "can't get" it? TeX / LaTeX
is available for free on all platforms I know about, with the
possible exception of non-OS X Macs, where you might have
to shell out $30 for a shareware license for OzTex.
-Ted
--
[E-mail me at name@domain.edu, as opposed to name@machine.domain.edu.]
Igor Khavkine
Apr24-05, 02:33 PM
<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','toolbar=no, location=no,scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no ,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usenet ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>On 2005-04-21, Urs Schreiber <Urs.Schreiber@uni-essen.de> wrote:\n> "Max Froumentin" <mf@w3.org> schrieb im Newsbeitrag\n> news:871x9710ls.fsf@w3.org...\n>\n>\n>> What\'s new and will probably change things are MathML enabled blogs\n>> and Wikis, who are going to make it simple to have MathML published,\n>> with a simple authoring syntax for maths (see\n>> <http://www.w3.org/Math/#item46> and\n>> <http://uniwakka.sourceforge.net/>)\n>\n> Jacques Distler has worked hard over the years to make the LaTeX to MathML\n> conversion as smooth as possible (in the context of weblogs) using a tool\n> called itex2MML.\n>\n> Just recently there was a new release with more improvements:\n\n> Despite immense progress it is however not yet possible to feed an\n> entire LaTeX document into itex2MML and get an equivalent XHTML+MathML\n> document out of it. For instance itex2MML does not support (yet) macros\n> or things like \\section, \\paragraph, etc.\n\nI believe TeX4ht[1] claims to do just that. I\'ve tested it briefly and\nit appeared to work for simple things, but I use if for\nconversion into HTML+images, so I don\'t know how it deals with more\ncomplicated documents. However, one advantage of this program is that it\nis actually built on top of TeX itself, so it understands all the fancy\nmacros natively.\n\nIgor\n\n[1] http://www.cse.ohio-state.edu/~gurari/TeX4ht/mn.html\n\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form"> View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky>On 2005-04-21, Urs Schreiber <Urs.Schreiber@uni-essen.de> wrote:
> "Max Froumentin" <mf@w3.org> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> news:871x9710ls.fsf@w3.org...
>
>
>> What's new and will probably change things are MathML enabled blogs
>> and Wikis, who are going to make it simple to have MathML published,
>> with a simple authoring syntax for maths (see
>> <http://www.w3.org/Math/#item46> and
>> <http://uniwakka.sourceforge.net/>)
>
> Jacques Distler has worked hard over the years to make the LaTeX to MathML
> conversion as smooth as possible (in the context of weblogs) using a tool
> called itex2MML.
>
> Just recently there was a new release with more improvements:
> Despite immense progress it is however not yet possible to feed an
> entire LaTeX document into itex2MML and get an equivalent XHTML+MathML
> document out of it. For instance itex2MML does not support (yet) macros
> or things like \section, \paragraph, etc.
I believe TeX4ht[1] claims to do just that. I've tested it briefly and
it appeared to work for simple things, but I use if for
conversion into HTML+images, so I don't know how it deals with more
complicated documents. However, one advantage of this program is that it
is actually built on top of TeX itself, so it understands all the fancy
macros natively.
Igor
[1] http://www.cse.ohio-state.edu/~gurari/TeX4ht/mn.html
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