Second-order and Fixed-point Logic: Describing Graphs

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around representing properties of graphs using second-order logic and fixed-point logic, specifically focusing on the property of having an even number of edges. Participants explore mathematical representations and definitions related to graph theory.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant inquires about representing graph properties, such as having an even number of edges, using second-order versus fixed-point logic.
  • Another participant provides a counterexample of a graph with one edge and discusses the evenness of the sum of vertex degrees, stating that this sum equals twice the number of edges.
  • A participant seeks clarification on how to mathematically express that the sum of degrees is even, referencing a function for degree calculation.
  • A further contribution outlines the mathematical definition of a graph as a pair of sets and details the calculation of vertex degrees and the relationship between the sum of degrees and edges.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

The discussion does not reach a consensus, as participants present different aspects of the problem and explore various mathematical representations without resolving the initial inquiry.

Contextual Notes

Participants rely on specific definitions and mathematical symbols, and there may be assumptions about the familiarity with graph theory concepts that are not explicitly stated.

nounou
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Does anyone have an idea how can we represent certain properties of a graph using
second-order logic, versus fixed-point logic :

like saying that a graph has an even number of edges

I've been trying to find a way to solve this for the past two days !

Any help?

Anyone ?
 
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Counterexample : Take the graph A-B...this one has only 1 edge...

I suppose you want to say : the sum of the degrees in a graph is even (the degree of a vertex is the sum of edges arriving at that vertex).

This is simply because the sum of the degree of each vertex is 2*n_edges...
 
Thanx Kleinwolf,
So you think i would use another function Degree(edge(X,Y)) ? But how how will I say mathematically that the sum is even Sigma Degree(edge(X,Y)) = 2*n...?
 
If I remember well, with symbols loved by mathematicians, a graph is a pair of set G=(V,E). The elements of V are the vertices v_i. The elements of E are the edges e_i=(v_1,v_2), linking vertices v_1 with v_2.

The degree of a vertex v_i is defined by : [tex]deg(v_i)=\sum_{e\in E|v_i\in e} 1[/tex]

Then : [tex]\sum_i deg(v_i)=\sum_{v_i\in V}\sum_{e\in E|v_i\in e}1=\sum_{e\in E}\sum_{v_i\in V|v_i\in e}1=\sum_{e\in E}2[/tex]

The last equality sign just comes from the fact that an edges links two vertices.
 

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