Tangential/radial/total acceleration & angle

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a race car's motion on a circular track, focusing on the concepts of tangential, radial, and total acceleration. The original poster expresses confusion regarding the derivation of an angle related to total acceleration at the completion of a circular lap, as well as the components of acceleration in a second related problem.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the relationship between tangential and centripetal acceleration, questioning how to derive the angle of total acceleration. Some participants discuss the equations relating distance traveled and speed, while others express uncertainty about the assumptions made in the problems.

Discussion Status

Some guidance has been offered regarding the relationships between acceleration components and the equations used to calculate them. Participants are actively clarifying misunderstandings about the equations and their derivations, particularly regarding the distance traveled and the time taken for the circular motion.

Contextual Notes

There is a noted lack of information in the original problem, leading to confusion about how to approach the calculations. Participants also mention discrepancies between their notes and textbook examples, which may affect their understanding of the problem setup.

Klion
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Question: A race car starts from rest on a circular track. The car increases its speed at a constant rate at as it goes once around the track. Find the angle that the total acceleration of the car makes-with the radius connecting the center of the track and the car-at the moment the car completes the circle.


OK now it just so happens this question is odd numbered and the answer is in the back of the book:

Answer: Theta = Tan^(-1)(1/(4Pi)) = 4.55 degrees.


Basically there seems to be zero information in the question so I don't understand how the answer is a precise angle.. I don't even know how to approach this question.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
This second one I've done but I don't understand what I'm doing very well (specifically on part c), I just tried to follow the notes.

Second question:

An automobile whose speed is increasing at a rate of 0.600 m/s^2 travels along a circular road of radius 20.0m. When the instantaneous speed of the automobile is 4.00 m/s, find (a) the tangential acceleration component, (b) the centripetal acceleration component and (c) the magnitude and direction of the total acceleration.


OK so (a) we want at (tangential acceleration):

ok so the speed is tangential, so at is just the magnitude of the rate of change of the speed, so at=0.6m/s^2

b) radial acceleration, ar:
ar=-v^2/r

so 4^2/20 = 0.8 m/s^2


c) lastly magnitude and direction of total acceleration, a:

a = sqrt(at^2 + ar^2) = 1 m/s^2
(assuming it starts at rest even tho not stated?)
er tangential acceleration = ai now, t doesn't work well.
v(t) = v(0) + ai*t = 0 + ai*t, v(t) = 4 m/s so t = 4/1
= 4 s


heres where I get really lost, and the notes and textbook examples differ though I am not sure why. The lecture notes posted are very wrong (mistakes in formulas) so i can't double check my notes.. anyway

c(t) = c(0) + v(o)t + (a/2)*t^2 = so (1/2)*4^2=8 m

so 8 meters traveled at time instaneous speed of 4 m/s is reached

the books example now just solves theta as theta= tan^(-1)(ar/ai)
so just inverse tan of radial acceleration over tangential acceleration..

My notes for a very similar question with different numbers are something like this:

angle = dist/circum = (8m * 2 * Pi) / (2 * Pi * 20m)
=2/5

then says angle = Pi - 2/5. Now I'm not sure how he arrived at the conclusion the angle needed to be subtracted from Pi in the first question so I don't know if the same needs to be done here or not. However the angle for the similar question is 5/2 so I am guessing that subtracting the angle from Pi was only neccesary because it was >90 and hence is not neccesary in this question?

lastly tangential and radial accelerations are reduced to vector components

tangential:
aix = -ai*sin(theta)
aiy = -ai*cos(theta)

radial:
arx = ar*cos(th)
ary = -ar*sin(th)


then a vector = ai vector + ar vector so just
ax =-ai*sin(theta)+ar*cos(th)
ay = -ai*cos(theta)+-ar*sin(th)

I thought we already had the magnitude of the total acceleration so I am not really sure what the last part w/ vectors is even for..
Any help would be appreciated, I'm off to bed heh.

Edit: Oh you the problem I used as a template to do the second problem was worded about the same numbers were as follows: Radius 20m (same), instanteous speed, 10 m/s, constant change in speed of magnitude 1 m/s^2. Just incase there is any confusion as to methods that that might help to alleviate. Going back to bed now.


-Klion
 
Last edited:
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ok, for the first qn:

the 2 components of acceleration acting on the car during its motion are tangential and centripetal. the tangential component is a constant - let's call it A. the centripetal component is v^2/r, where v is the velocity of the car as it completes its first round, and r is the radius of the circular path.

since the 2 components are mutually perpendicular, they can actually be arranged head-to-tail to form the 2 shorter legs of a right-angled triangle. the question requires the angle that the hypotenuse makes with the centripetal component. in other words, we have to find angle x where

x = tan^(-1) [ A / (v^2/r) ]

but notice the 2 relationships:

v = AT ----- (1)

and

(1/2)vT = 2.pi.r ----- (2)

where T is the time taken for the complete circle.

simplifying the expression for x, we have

x = tan^(-1) [ A / (v^2/r) ]
x = tan^(-1) [ Ar / v^2 ]

using eqn (1),

x = tan^(-1) [ Ar / A^2.T^2 ]
x = tan^(-1) [ r / A.T^2 ]

using eqn (1) again,

x = tan^(-1) [ r / vT ]

using eqn (2).

x = tan^(-1) [ r / 4.pi.r ]
x = tan^(-1) [ 1 / 4.pi ]

and there's your answer. so it's actually just a spot of symbol manipulation. off to bed now.
 
Hmm

(1/2)vT = 2.pi.r ----- (2)

Perhaps I missed something, but shouldn't that be vT = 2 * pi * r ?

I'm not really sure where the (1/2) came from on the LHS, which is possibly why I keep on coming up with x = arctan 1 / ( 2 * pi) instead of x = arctan 1 / (4 * pi).

Could someone please elaborate?
 
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(1/2)vT = 2.pi.r -----(2)

is an equation concerning distance travelled. the distance traveled is equal to the area under the speed-time graph, and is therefore (1/2)vT since acceleration is constant. the RHS is the circumference of the circle, i.e. the distance around the track. hope this clears things up.
 
Excellent

Thank you very much, that cleared up everything. For some really odd reason I didn't use an equation which factored in acceleration, and instead used an equation which assumed constant velocity (t = 2piR / v). Thanks again for clearing things up.
 

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