Dear Phobos, Janus, and Self Adjoint

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of the Pauli exclusion principle and its potential implications for understanding the stability of the universe in relation to the quantum vacuum. Participants explore the idea that this principle might explain why the universe has not collapsed under its own gravity, while also addressing the reception of non-mainstream ideas within the forum.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the suppression of ideas in the forum, suggesting that the Pauli exclusion principle could explain the balance of gravitational forces in the universe.
  • Another participant expresses skepticism about the validity of theories that do not rely on mathematical rigor, framing such theories as philosophical rather than scientific.
  • A different participant references Einstein's initial thought experiments and argues for the importance of intuition in scientific advancement, while challenging others to provide mathematical support for their criticisms.
  • There is mention of the fine-tuning problem in quantum cosmology, with a challenge to explain it without invoking the Pauli exclusion principle.
  • Some participants provide suggestions for alternative forums where discussions of non-mainstream ideas might be more accepted.
  • One participant expresses interest in challenges to mainstream ideas but criticizes those who do not advance their concepts beyond verbal descriptions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views, with some supporting the exploration of non-mainstream ideas while others emphasize the necessity of mathematical rigor. There is no consensus on the validity of the original claim regarding the Pauli exclusion principle or the overall approach to discussing such theories.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the limitations of discussions that lack mathematical backing and the challenges of articulating complex ideas without sufficient development or calculation.

turbo
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Can you explain why an idea is so dangerous that it must be suppressed? Specifically the concept that the Pauli exclusion principle may be able to explain why the self-gravitation of the quantum vacuum has not yet collapsed the diameter of the universe to a few thousand kilometers (and may be in such fine dynamical balance with the gravitational-energy equivalence of the vacuum to keep the universe stable?)

I have come to expect the suppression of ideas in this forum, the tolerance of personally insulting posts (including name-calling and disparaging statements), and the offhand dismissal of non-mainstream ideas, no matter how compelling and logical. If Einstein, Dirac, or Feynman had posted in this venue, they would have been called names and their ideas would be vilified. I in no way wish to equate myself with these fine people, but wish to point out that each of them stood alone at some point and articulated a vision for the advancement of physics.

It would be instructive to all of us idiots who employ logic if you could list the "forbidden" subjects. Your call. Thanks
 
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Do you think a 'math optional' theory of anything [much less everything] is going to be taken seriously here? I don't. That's not science, it's philosophy. Frankly, I doubt any of your other 'critics' will reply to your complaint.
 
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Well, Einstein's GR started as a "thought experiment", and it took him a decade to work out the math, with help. If he had not pursued his intuition, physics would be a much different field today. As for math, you were once fond of needling posters like myself with the phrase "show me the math", yet in those criticisms, you yourself never offer mathematical arguments to support your statements. It is very easy to snipe at others, it is quite another thing to offer guidance and direction.

The fine-tuning problem is the biggest puzzle in quantum cosmology. If you can explain why the expansive pressure of the quantum vacuum and the compressive force of its gravitational equivalence are fine-tuned to 120 OOM so that the universe can exist without collapsing or exploding, you will go meet the king of Sweden. Have at it.

One rule: Since you are so sure that I am wrong, you must solve the puzzle without invoking the Pauli exclusion principle and you must ignore the fermionic nature of the virtual particles of the vacuum. Good luck.
 
Where can I read more about this puzzle?
 
There are fora where a 'handwaving' discussion of topics such as this might be welcome (or at least tolerated), for example Alternative Theories in Universe Today, and http://www.badastronomy.com/phpBB/viewforum.php?f=1&sid=7ac0ccfa025bfb57aa3288480e205353 in BadAstronomy (the latter has some http://www.badastronomy.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=19638 for folk who want to discuss alternative ideas in BA).

I'm not sure if you saw the announcement of Physics Forum's new Independent Research forum, so here is a key part of that (dated 4 July, 2005; note that the name was changed from "Outside the Mainstream"):
As a consequence of this upgrade, all non mainstream posts and threads that were formerly moved to Theory Development will henceforth be deleted. If your post or thread is deleted under this policy you will receive a Private Message indicating such, and you will be invited to resubmit to the new Outside the Mainstream Forum, according to the guidelines of that Forum.[/color]
For the avoidance of doubt, let me add that I for one am very interested in challenges to the mainstream. However, I personally am very critical of proponents of ideas that sound great when expressed in word pictures, but who never seem to get around to doing anything with the idea (other than vocally promoting it, extolling its compelling logic, comparing it to some historical work of certain scientists, ...), and specifically, can't even advance it to broad OOM calculation stage.

I join with Phobos, Janus, and SelfAdjoint in inviting you to keep working with your idea, and submit it to the Independent Research forum when you're ready.
 
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EnumaElish said:
Where can I read more about this puzzle?
Here
 

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