What's being taught in schools

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the appropriateness of teaching advanced concepts in physics, such as string theory, loop quantum gravity (LQG), and cosmic natural selection, in schools. Participants explore whether these topics should be included in educational curricula and how to address fundamental questions about the universe's composition and origins, particularly in the context of competing theories like intelligent design and evolution.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question whether advanced topics like strings, branes, and LQG should be taught at all, suggesting they may be irrelevant for students who have not yet grasped the basics of quantum mechanics (QM) and general relativity (GR).
  • One participant emphasizes the importance of ensuring that foundational scientific concepts, such as the age and nature of stars and the existence of black holes, are accurately represented in pre-collegiate education.
  • Another participant raises concerns about the teaching of intelligent design in schools, proposing that alternative theories like cosmic natural selection could provide a counter-narrative to creationism.
  • There is a call for evolution to be taught in a contemporary context, countering outdated misconceptions that may be perpetuated by proponents of intelligent design.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the appropriateness of teaching advanced physics concepts in schools, with some advocating for a focus on foundational knowledge while others argue for the inclusion of alternative theories to creationism. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best approach to teaching these complex topics.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the importance of the educational level being discussed, indicating that the appropriateness of certain topics may depend on whether the context is primary, secondary, or college-level education.

Sam Owen
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...with regards to strings, branes, LQG, CDT etc ?

should any of them be taught or should the subject of reconciling QM with GR just be excluded ?

What do you say to a kid who asks you what is the universe made of and how was it made given that the teachers themselves probably have as much of a clue as the kid ?
 
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We really need to know what level of school you are discussing. Particularly whether this is a college physics atmosphere or something else. Would love to try a shot at the answer with that information.
 
These subject aren't taught at all, and shouldn't be, to any significant extent above the advanced undergraduate level. Simply put, the issue of reconciling QM and GR is irrelevant to anyone who has not been taught what QM and GR even are, and those matters generally are first mentioned at all at the end of a freshman or sophomore physics series, and aren't addressed meaningfully until one reaches advanced ungraduate physics.

I'll be happy enough if we have science textbooks at the pre-collegiate level that consistently note that stars are older than 10,000 years, very hot, and very far away, that black holes exist, and that there exists physics below the proton-neutron-electron model of the atom.
 
I see though that intelligent design is getting sanctioned by the bushman to be taught in schools and I'm presuming at year one entry level.

So as an alternative theory to creationism shouldn't something be taught that counters the potential damaging effect of deferring responsibility for all that we see to an unknown entity which essentially colours a childs perception from day one

could cosmic natural selection be that theory ?
 
Sam Owen said:
I see though that intelligent design is getting sanctioned by the bushman to be taught in schools and I'm presuming at year one entry level.

So as an alternative theory to creationism shouldn't something be taught that counters the potential damaging effect of deferring responsibility for all that we see to an unknown entity which essentially colours a childs perception from day one

could cosmic natural selection be that theory ?

The theory that should be taught is evolution, of species here on earth, in a properly up-to-date manner. The creationists and ID freaks thrive on old out-of-date misconceptions of what evolution says.
 

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