Does the Thomson Model of the Atom Fail at Large or Small Scattering Angles?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the Thomson model of the atom and its predictions regarding the scattering of alpha particles, particularly focusing on whether it fails at large or small scattering angles. Participants are exploring the implications of the Thomson model in comparison to the Rutherford scattering formula.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Conceptual clarification

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants are examining the predictions of the Thomson model regarding deflection angles of alpha particles and comparing these with experimental observations from Rutherford's scattering experiments. There is confusion about the implications of scattering at different angles and whether the Thomson model can account for observed results.

Discussion Status

Some participants are questioning the assumptions underlying the Thomson model and its predictions, particularly in relation to large scattering angles. There is a recognition that the model may not adequately explain the observed scattering behavior, especially at larger angles, while others are attempting to clarify the relationship between small angle deflections and the model's validity.

Contextual Notes

Participants have noted the constraints of the homework context, including the need for hints rather than direct answers, and the urgency of the assignment's deadline. There is also mention of the need for clarity on the definitions and implications of scattering angles in relation to atomic models.

ColdFusion85
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I am to explain whether the Thomson model of the atom fails at large scattering angles or at small ones...I obviously don't want the answer, but just some hints as to how I would determine this. Thanks in advance.

I know that the Thomson model predicts that there should be less than 1 degree of deflection for the alpha particles as they pass through the foil, and the Rutherford scattering formula shows that the number of particles that get deflected with respect to their scattering angle decreases as the scattering angle increases...so I am inclined to think that the Thomson model fails for large scattering angles...but the Rutherford formula clearly shows that most particles do get deflected at smaller angles, albeit not 1 degree...so isn't this agreeing with Thomson anyway? I am confused, please help.
 
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ColdFusion85 said:
I am to explain whether the Thomson model of the atom fails at large scattering angles or at small ones...I obviously don't want the answer, but just some hints as to how I would determine this. Thanks in advance.

I know that the Thomson model predicts that there should be less than 1 degree of deflection for the alpha particles as they pass through the foil, and the Rutherford scattering formula shows that the number of particles that get deflected with respect to their scattering angle decreases as the scattering angle increases...so I am inclined to think that the Thomson model fails for large scattering angles...but the Rutherford formula clearly shows that most particles do get deflected at smaller angles, albeit not 1 degree...so isn't this agreeing with Thomson anyway? I am confused, please help.
I think the question is asking: what observed scattering angles does the Thomson model fail to predict?

AM
 
Anyone else? Please help, this is due this afternoon.
 
ColdFusion85 said:
Anyone else? Please help, this is due this afternoon.
It is not that difficult. If the Thomson model predicts small scattering angles and experiment shows that some alpha particles are deflected at small scattering angles, then it doesn't fail at small scattering angles. What the Thomson model does not predict or explain is an alpha particle scattering at large angles. Thomson's model, then, fails to predict the large angle scattering that was actually observed by Rutherford.

AM
 
is anybody having details of
structure of atom
nuetrons
protons
electrons
thomas model of atom
rutherford model of atom
bohr model of atom
atoms molecules
valencies table
 

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