Ouija Board.

[benzun_1999]

Is Ouija Board real?

[FZ+]

Well, I can tap on it, and it feels pretty real to me....

The whole thing relies on natural jerks of your limbs, coupled with a subconscious effect. You can't reproduce it if you jumble up the letters and close your eyes.

[Jonathan]

I have wondered that too. It seem to me that scientifically, no. And yet, my mom has many stories of how the spirits she communicated with using it made unbelievable predictions that came true. I don't think she'd want me sharing them though. Suffice it to say, it seems that it was always demons she talked to, and in addition to the few predictions being unbelievable, they were bizarre, irrelevant really, and completely impossible to fake, as near as I can tell.
Of course she could be leading me on, but she has told me about these experiences many times, and the stories never change and she is always very serious about it. The only thing to make me think that she's made it up is that it is possible, but there is nothing about the way she has acted to make me think she has, nor has she ever carried any other practicle joke for this long, in fact she hasn't done many.
Oh, BTW, our family does have a history of mental illness, but she nor anyone immediate to me have had any such problems.

[FZ+]

Nah. Its just a case of positive feedback, through a subconscious process. Reject the negatives, use the positives to reinforce your personal beliefs, which leads you to be even more subjective in interpreting the data and so on.

[Jonathan]

What are you talking about? If whenever you used a Ouiji board you ended up talking to demons, how many times do you think you'd do it before you quit forever? My guess is not many, so there are not many positives and negatives to be picking and choosing from. And lets not forget that though I don't want to tell you much, the predictions were just bizarre, not something you'd think up in a thousand years, and they came true. And yet, because of their bizarreness, they really had no bearing on real life and one would be tempted to ask the spirit why it would bother to predict something so stupid.
Also, I am insulted that you think my mother is so stupid as to selectivly believe things that support preheld veiws and then use it as proof. It occurs to me now that if she had had things her way, she would have made sure they didn't come true, because it was a validaition that, for ex, she really was talking to demon, which is really creepy. Who would selectivly remember events so as to scare the crap out of oneself? I have never heard of such an occurence being diagnosed by any psychologists, and I think it is because those who are sane don't do things like that.
Your obcessive cynicism drives me nuts!

[FZ+]

Wait, wait, I didn't mean any offense...
(a) The aura of mysticism definitely helps. You expect it to work, and so you do give some leverage to your beliefs. If you don't do it many times, then you have few negatives to weed out, but don't underestimate the power of the mind to play into vagueness.

(b) I absolutely do not mean to imply your mother is in any way stupid. I am hugely sorry if I gave that impression. I merely say that your mother is human.

Have you ever seen a horror movie? A good one, a subtle one... That is a demonstration of this principle. In such movies, the director plays on ambiguity to generate fears. The viewer may not want to use the horrible interpretation, but subconsciously is forced to. Since I enjoy a horror movie (now and then!), I am every bit as "stupid" as your mother is. This sort of effect goes even further. Google a bit for the controversy following the discovery that some methods of therapy for "repressed memory syndrome", may in fact implant false memories into the patient. This is particularly disturbing surrounding the incident of a loving father who was suggested into "remember" than he engaged in satanic rape and cannibalism rituals with his daughter.

[Phobos]

Originally posted by Jonathan
Also, I am insulted that you think my mother is so stupid as to selectivly believe things that support preheld veiws and then use it as proof.

As FZ+ noted, this is normal human nature. A person has to make an effort to try to see outside their own bias.

Have you watched her use the Ouija board? Does it look legitimate to you? Have her close her eyes and try it. Take notes. Run the statistics on the hits and misses. Any different than random chance?

[Jonathan]

I wasn't born yet, and I doubt I could get her near one now. So, I guess the concensus is no, not real, esp. given that I can't prove she's not had a good laugh about this behind my back, though I do really doubt it.

[benzun_1999]

I am sure that ouja boards are real and they work. I tell you the truth though i havent used it i am sure it works and it is nothing but talking to devil.

your mom uses it, right. ask the board "who are you?"

the result is devil. I am telling this becayse someone else told this to me and i am sure that person is trust worthy.

to add up to this there are many cases of death where ouja board is involved.

-Benzun
all for God.

[Phobos]

Sites debunking the Ouija Board...

http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mouija.html

http://skepdic.com/ouija.html

Note the references to "the ideomotor effect" and how people subconsciously spell the words out themselves, not any devil or demon.

As has been suggested, simply blindfolding the user can show that the Ouija board does not work.

[phoenixthoth]

they may be more related to dissociative and/or hypnotic states than external spirits.

[wasteofo2]

this was told to me by my friends mom:

When she was a kid, she got an ouija board. She got bored of it and threw it in the garbage one day. The day after she threw it away, it was back in her closet. She got scared and placed it in the garbage pale which is collected by the garbagemen and watched the bin be emptied into the truck, the next day the ouija board was back in her closet. She lit it on fire and watched it burn. The next day it was back in her closet, unburnt. Her parents always denied ahving anything to do with the ouija board reappearing.

So yeah, sounds fun...

[Jonathan]

benzun_1999: You obviously didn't read my last post...however, as the cynics have said, and am not surprised, I do know that she has before asked 'Where are you?' and obviously it said Hell. It occurs to me now that if the spirit/demon was really in Hell (and if it really exists), you'd think it'd be too preoccied by the torture/ing etc. to respond to messages asked froma Ouiji Board. [:D]
wasteofo2:(<hey, I just got that[:))]) That's really weird, but I doubt it's validity, because of the lack of similar reports.

[wasteofo2]

Originally posted by Jonathan
That's really weird, but I doubt it's validity, because of the lack of similar reports.

You obviously haven't read Victor Cudross' studies on the molecular memory of state of being/state of surrounding found in certain rare species of oak found in south east vermont, which were highly used in production of Ouija boards in the 1970's, ignorant fool :P

[Jonathan]

You are joking with the ignorant fool part, aren't you? Is any of what you just said true? It doens' make sense to me that they'd allow a rare species of oak to be cut down to allow for the creation of a 'board game', and it doesn't make any sense to me that the 'properties' of this type of tree would cause a ouiji board to be indestructable and capable of self-relocation. Maybe her parents continually bought new ones to freak her out? That would be pretty funny...[:))]

[Bernardo]

The board is actually quite irrelevant, what's at stake here is the condition of your heart and the motives behind its use.

There are spirits, devils and so on, why take time out of your day to open your self up to them? Why make yourself vulnerable. No good spirit will ever be involved with this practice or any other, for the simple reason is that God wants you to trust Him, you know take a step of faith without all the facts. By using a board or any other occult like means you are really saying you don't trust Him. That's why devils love this kinda thing - its very seductive in its appearance of truth.

It acts like a cycle - at first it's a simple little thing that comes true then another then another and soon your hooked on the thing.

[wasteofo2]

Originally posted by Jonathan
You are joking with the ignorant fool part, aren't you? Is any of what you just said true? It doens' make sense to me that they'd allow a rare species of oak to be cut down to allow for the creation of a 'board game', and it doesn't make any sense to me that the 'properties' of this type of tree would cause a ouiji board to be indestructable and capable of self-relocation. Maybe her parents continually bought new ones to freak her out? That would be pretty funny...[:))]

The thing about that rare species of oak, is that it looks totally like your regular oak, and grows in the same forests. It also probabally doesn't make any sense to a bunch of botanists that some wacky physicists think that everthing that happens has infinite possible outcomes and an infinite amount of parallel realities are created playing out each outcome...

[benzun_1999]

Originally posted by Bernardo
The board is actually quite irrelevant, what's at stake here is the condition of your heart and the motives behind its use.

There are spirits, devils and so on, why take time out of your day to open your self up to them? Why make yourself vulnerable. No good spirit will ever be involved with this practice or any other, for the simple reason is that God wants you to trust Him, you know take a step of faith without all the facts. By using a board or any other occult like means you are really saying you don't trust Him. That's why devils love this kinda thing - its very seductive in its appearance of truth.

It acts like a cycle - at first it's a simple little thing that comes true then another then another and soon your hooked on the thing.

i accept this.

At first it is very cool and harmless. as time passes, as you get hooked to it turns into a your leader, God and everything.

The problem begins when you realise it is wrong and get rid of it.
When You lack faith in God and are trying to get rid of it, it changes into a demon and trys to harm you going to the extend of killing you.

this is true.

-benzun
All For God.

[benzun_1999]

Originally posted by Jonathan
benzun_1999: You obviously didn't read my last post...however, as the cynics have said, and am not surprised, I do know that she has before asked 'Where are you?' and obviously it said Hell. It occurs to me now that if the spirit/demon was really in Hell (and if it really exists), you'd think it'd be too preoccied by the torture/ing etc. to respond to messages asked froma Ouiji Board. [:D]
wasteofo2:(<hey, I just got that[:))]) That's really weird, but I doubt it's validity, because of the lack of similar reports.

I support wasteofo2. I do not doubt its validity because i have heard many similar things such as this.

The fact that many havn't heard such reports is because a very few survive such events. Many become insane because of Ouja board.

[wasteofo2]

Originally posted by benzun_1999
I support wasteofo2. I do not doubt its validity because i have heard many similar things such as this.

The fact that many havn't heard such reports is because a very few survive such events. Many become insane because of Ouja board.

None survive the wrath of a wooden plank!!!

And by the way, I was just recounting what my friends mom has said, not saying I nessicarily believe her.

[Bernardo]

Found this on the history of the board.

Remember the issue here isn't the piece of wood - it's just wood. You could make one out of lasagna noodles and alphabet soup.

It's the opening yourself up that's the danger not the wood. So much of this is just urban legend anyway - but all legends come from something (less dramatic but still signifigant).

At least you could just eat my board if it got weird.


my 1st attemt at hyperlink - hope it worked

http://www.prairieghosts.com/ouija.html[/URL]

[Jonathan]

Yo've either got to put [ url]www.something.com[ /url] (without the spaces) or select "Automatically parse urls" in the options section below the body of your post before you finish posting. Here:
http://www.prairieghosts.com/ouija.html

[Zero]

Originally posted by benzun_1999
Is Ouija Board real?

No.

[zoobyshoe]

Originally posted by Jonathan Oh, BTW, our family does have a history of mental illness, but she nor anyone immediate to me have had any such problems.
I'll bet the mental illness is a misdiagnosis and that your family actually has an undiagnosed history of complex partial seizures.

[Jonathan]

I hope you're joking, because I meant to write 'doesn't'. Dang it, did I write it that way, or did you quote it that way for a joke...ah cheese I bet I did...

[Jonathan]

I did! :P

[zoobyshoe]

Originally posted by wasteofo2
You obviously haven't read Victor Cudross' studies on the molecular memory of state of being/state of surrounding found in certain rare species of oak found in south east vermont, which were highly used in production of Ouija boards in the 1970's, ignorant fool :P
Actually, I'm quite familiar with this work and what he says about the oak would in no way account for the story you were told. What the wood of these oak trees always seek to do is to return to the forest whence they came. Therefore what must actually have happened is that the ouija board kept trying to escape the house via the garbage, and she had to retrieve it. Eventually the board must have tried to commit suicide by jumping into a fireplace. These things always get garbled in the retelling.

[zoobyshoe]

Originally posted by Jonathan
I did! :P
And you meant to, but now you're thinking "Oh oh, too much information."

Doesn't matter because like I said, I'm pretty sure it's a misdiagnosis.

[wasteofo2]

Originally posted by zoobyshoe
Actually, I'm quite familiar with this work and what he says about the oak would in no way account for the story you were told. What the wood of these oak trees always seek to do is to return to the forest whence they came. Therefore what must actually have happened is that the ouija board kept trying to escape the house via the garbage, and she had to retrieve it. Eventually the board must have tried to commit suicide by jumping into a fireplace. These things always get garbled in the retelling.

Nope, she kept putting it in the garbage can and she burnt it.
Only thing i can think of is that her closet was closer to the woods than teh garbage can was and that it led there some way through a hole in the floor or something.

[Jonathan]

First of all, you must post a link explaining why any wood would move of it's own accord to get back to the original forest, which sounds patently absurd.
Second of all, zoobyshoe, you can't know what I meant to say you are not in my head. And no, not a Freudian slip, Freud was nuts himself, all his theories are nonsense.

[Zero]

Originally posted by wasteofo2
Nope, she kept putting it in the garbage can and she burnt it.
Only thing i can think of is that her closet was closer to the woods than teh garbage can was and that it led there some way through a hole in the floor or something. You may want to come join us folks in reality...wood doesn't do that.

[zoobyshoe]

Originally posted by wasteofo2
Nope, she kept putting it in the garbage can and she burnt it.
Only thing i can think of is that her closet was closer to the woods than teh garbage can was and that it led there some way through a hole in the floor or something.
You're completely ignoring Cudross, chapter 7, where he reports no fewer than 4 ouija boards attempting to commit suicide by jumping into firplaces when they couldn't get back to Vermont for one reason or another. I'm sure this woman told you what she believed to be the truth, but it is at odds with what Cudross says about this interesting species of oak, and who knows it better than him?

[Jonathan]

Well, I'd say that even Zero knows better than him. Wood doesn't move by itself. I can't believe I even have to say it.

[zoobyshoe]

Originally posted by Jonathan
First of all, you must post a link explaining why any wood would move of it's own accord to get back to the original forest, which sounds patently absurd.
This isn't any old wood. This is ouija board wood. Demons speak through it. You think it's a stretch from there for it to be hopping trains back to Vermont?
Second of all, zoobyshoe, you can't know what I meant to say you are not in my head.
A ouija board told me what you meant.

[zoobyshoe]

Johnathan, I hope you realize we're just yanking your chain.

[wasteofo2]

Originally posted by Jonathan
Well, I'd say that even Zero knows better than him. Wood doesn't move by itself. I can't believe I even have to say it.

Look, I'll try to explain it, it's really not that complex.

This species of oak has an unusual process of absobtion of minerals through it's roots which isn't as discriminate as other tree's processes of absorbtion of minerals. There is a large supply of iron ore in the groudn where this species of oak grows. Due to this, and the fact that the trees are usually left undisturbed for hundreds of years, they trees develop a very specific magnetic orientation in relation to the magnetic north pole. Imagine a kind of longitude line coming from the magnetic north pole, that is what develops in these trees. They have a very strong bond with this specific "magnetic longitude line" for lack of a better term. When they are cut down, the weight of the whole tree is far too much for the magnetic iron in it to do anything along the lines of moving it, but once it's cut up into smaller pieces, it can get to a light enough weight where it can actually move back to it's original "magnetic longitude line"

Understand now, mister skeptic?

[Jonathan]

zoobyshoe: Do you me 'we' as in both of you? then why is he still going on with it?
wasteofo2: Yes, and it is complete BS. BTW I just got a PM and if it is you trying to talk to me, I don't know yet what you've said, I'm going to finish this post first.
If we make the assumption that the magnetized mineral in the wood is perfectly evenly distributed, then it doesn't matter what size the wood is, if it won't move it at a certain size, it won't move at any size. If it is disproportionatly distributed, then I'll allow the possibility that certain parts, when small enough, could very slowly move themselves, just for the sake of arguement. I mean slowly like 1cm/month, if that, which is so slow that the phenomenon wouldn't be noticed and we wouldn't be talking about it. Regardless, as per the working of magnetism, it will not be drawn to a particular longitude (not to mention that it won't be drawn to any particular latitude, even by your convoluted explaination, so it could end up anywhere in line with the forest and the nearest pole), it will be drawn to rotate to line up with the poles of the earth, and then it will be drawn to which ever pole is closer. But these forces are so incredibly weak that they wouldn't noticably effect a peice of magnetized dust as it floats about. (It would rotate it to stay lined up, but it wouldn't move any an direction more than any other.)
I can't believe anyone belives this!

[wasteofo2]

Originally posted by Jonathan
zoobyshoe: Do you me 'we' as in both of you? then why is he still going on with it?
wasteofo2: Yes, and it is complete BS. BTW I just got a PM and if it is you trying to talk to me, I don't know yet what you've said, I'm going to finish this post first.
If we make the assumption that the magnetized mineral in the wood is perfectly evenly distributed, then it doesn't matter what size the wood is, if it won't move it at a certain size, it won't move at any size. If it is disproportionatly distributed, then I'll allow the possibility that certain parts, when small enough, could very slowly move themselves, just for the sake of arguement. I mean slowly like 1cm/month, if that, which is so slow that the phenomenon wouldn't be noticed and we wouldn't be talking about it. Regardless, as per the working of magnetism, it will not be drawn to a particular longitude (not to mention that it won't be drawn to any particular latitude, even by your convoluted explaination, so it could end up anywhere in line with the forest and the nearest pole), it will be drawn to rotate to line up with the poles of the earth, and then it will be drawn to which ever pole is closer. But these forces are so incredibly weak that they wouldn't noticably effect a peice of magnetized dust as it floats about. (It would rotate it to stay lined up, but it wouldn't move any an direction more than any other.)
I can't believe anyone belives this!

HAHAHAHAHA

Oh man, you really allowed yourself to be taken farther with this than you should have. Of course it was all BS and I was making it up as I went along, but the fact that you actually came up with an intelligent rebuttal to my "wood can move and repair itself after being burnt due to magnetism" argument shows you need to chill out a bit. Tommorow afternoon: get a box of cookies, a tall glass of milk, smoke a joint and watch spinal tap or something.

[benzun_1999]

This ouja board is becoming more wierd. First and fore most is there anyone who realy has used this ouja board here????????? [8)]

I donot accept with anyone who tells that ouja board isnot real because many have used it.

Wheter ouja board is real or not it is dangerous and i dare not use it. [;)]

The true lord my God has warned not to use it at any coast.

Wasteofo2 dont tell us your own theories.

Tell me weather this board thing is true. All that matters is that it works that is why it was more sold than monopoly in the 1970's

Benzun
All for God

[Jonathan]

How did you get zoobyshoe in on it?
Now, I'm sorry for being seemingly stupid, but Zero fell for it too(though that doesn't say much [:))]), and I have to deal with people like Zero, who say the most bizarre off-the-wall things with a straight face, all the time. I'm actually looser than you'd think, I guess I need to be more liberal with those smilies, huh Zero?

[:)][:D][:(][:))][:((]

No, I don't think it works, and you shouldn't buy one, ever.

[zoobyshoe]

He didn't do anything to get me into it. When I read the cr8p about the book and special oak trees for ouija boards I knew he was yanking your chain, so I just played along. I was kinda surprised Zero thought we believed what we were saying, too.

[wasteofo2]

Originally posted by benzun_1999
This ouja board is becoming more wierd. First and fore most is there anyone who realy has used this ouja board here????????? [8)]

I donot accept with anyone who tells that ouja board isnot real because many have used it.

Wheter ouja board is real or not it is dangerous and i dare not use it. [;)]

The true lord my God has warned not to use it at any coast.

Wasteofo2 dont tell us your own theories.

Tell me weather this board thing is true. All that matters is that it works that is why it was more sold than monopoly in the 1970's

Benzun
All for God

As far as I know, neither testament has mention of an ouija board...

I've used it with some friends, nothing happened, it just stayed static until I decided to spell out "Elephant tusk" and see who the first one to realize it was me would be.

And Benzun, first of all, it was a joke. Second of all, I'm allowed to come up with and display theories here if I want to, "this isn't stalingrad".

[Jonathan]

wasteofo2, you know what he means: the Bible warns against soothsayers, false prophets, etc.

[zoobyshoe]

Benzun lives in Oman. He is almost assuredly a Muslim. He would not be refering to anything in the old or new testament.

[Jonathan]

Oh, sorry, that didn't occur to me, I was going by wasteofo2's post's mentioning of testaments. However, I bet the Quran also warns against soothsayers, etc., esp. given benzun_1999's opinions.

[wasteofo2]

Originally posted by zoobyshoe
Benzun lives in Oman. He is almost assuredly a Muslim. He would not be refering to anything in the old or new testament.

Ahh...
In that case, I know exactly what part of the koran warns against ouija boards...

[wasteofo2]

Originally posted by Jonathan
wasteofo2, you know what he means: the Bible warns against soothsayers, false prophets, etc.

Ok, but come on, if an apostle came up to jesus with a wooden board with some letters painted on and a triangle with glass in the middle screaming that it spoke to him, do you think jesus would have done anything other than laughed and told him to calm down and have a glass of his blood?

[Jonathan]

That is one of the most bizarre comments, I don't even know what to think of it. But if we take the position that ouiji board phenomena are all in the head of the player, then Jesus would've known this and said so, but it was my understanding that he never laughed. Then again, if the ouiji board really is a method of communicating with spirits, and they are almost certaintly going to be demonic, then I think Jesus would have warned against them very seriously.

[wasteofo2]

Originally posted by Jonathan
That is one of the most bizarre comments, I don't even know what to think of it. But if we take the position that ouiji board phenomena are all in the head of the player, then Jesus would've known this and said so, but it was my understanding that he never laughed. Then again, if the ouiji board really is a method of communicating with spirits, and they are almost certaintly going to be demonic, then I think Jesus would have warned against them very seriously.

Look dude, it's a wooden board with letters painted on it, nothing more, just a wooden board with letters. If demons want to communicate with you and they can only do so through this little piece of wood then they're pathetic demons to begin with and shouldn't be feared in any way.

[Jonathan]

Any demon should be feared. And how do you know that there are not many other ways to communicate available to all demons, and that they often choose this one because it seems so innocent and stupid? They're tricky you know...you can't be too cautious.

[wasteofo2]

Originally posted by Jonathan
Any demon should be feared. And how do you know that there are not many other ways to communicate available to all demons, and that they often choose this one because it seems so innocent and stupid? They're tricky you know...you can't be too cautious.

[!:)] I shall corrupt humanity through a wooden plank with letters painted on made by a game company, fear my evil!



Any demon that talks through an ouija board is a crappy one in my book, if demon's are so badassed, why don't they take over the soul of someone who's on a sumbarine with nuclear weapons and just kill everyone in the world?

[BoulderHead]

A small group played with one of these boards long ago. It seemed quite interesting....

...until one of the players was caught moving the thing. [:((] [:D]

[FZ+]

Any demon should be feared. And how do you know that there are not many other ways to communicate available to all demons, and that they often choose this one because it seems so innocent and stupid? They're tricky you know...you can't be too cautious.
I think you are more afraid of demons than God.

Calm down folks... Didn't Jesus talk to demons? The fear is how demons, real or metaphorical, have power over you.

[zoobyshoe]

Originally posted by FZ+ Calm down folks... Didn't Jesus talk to demons?
I'm pretty sure it was devils, and apparently demons and devils are two different animals.
The fear is how demons, real or metaphorical, have power over you.
There is something to this. Most mentally ill people are harmless and non-violent toward others. The small percentage who are violent are frequently motivated by the paranoid fear that someone in their life has been possessed.
Son of Sam was a classic example. He thought his neighbor Sam's dog had been possessed by the devil and was ordering him (David Berkowitz) to kill people. He shot the dog, but when it survived the bullet, it just confirmed for him that it was possessed. Intense fear of evil sometimes ends up being a kind of evil itself.

[Bernardo]

Fz+,

I'm impressed - your theology is quite accurate.

[Jonathan]

FZ+: That is correct, God is to be feared only if you are not sorry for your sins, and I try to be, so I think I'm doing pretty good. The parts of the Bible that say things about fearing God are inaccurate. Unfortunatly, I don't remember what exactly they really ment or where I heard that, so I can't argue that very far. Also, need I remind you that Jesus was more powerful than the demons? That's like me being afraid of a grain of sand, so of course he wasn't. Regardless, this isn't the religion forum.
zoobyshoe: I disagree, my experience with the insane has shown me that they are far more dangerous than many think. Don't misunderstand, they usually don't mean to be dangerous, they can't really be held responsible for their actions. But it is really hard to tell, they could be vegetative one second and at your throat the next, it is really their unpredictability that makes them even more dangerous, esp. for those who aren't used to or don't know they are dealing with someone insane.

[benzun_1999]

Originally posted by zoobyshoe
Benzun lives in Oman. He is almost assuredly a Muslim. He would not be refering to anything in the old or new testament.

Pleasedont change my religion. I am a christian from India presently reciding in Oman

[Bernardo]

To fear the Lord means to hold Him in Awe and respect, and yes even know your place - there is nothing inaccurate about any statement thus referring. Be careful what you dismiss!

[benzun_1999]

Originally posted by wasteofo2
As far as I know, neither testament has mention of an ouija board...

I've used it with some friends, nothing happened, it just stayed static until I decided to spell out "Elephant tusk" and see who the first one to realize it was me would be.

And Benzun, first of all, it was a joke. Second of all, I'm allowed to come up with and display theories here if I want to, "this isn't stalingrad".

firstly though the bible doesn't tell about ouja board it certainly warns us not speak to spirts.

and secondly i accept that you have full right to tell your own theories but please let us know that it is your own theory.

[Jonathan]

Bernardo: Yes, that's right, but my point was that most people think it literally means fear, the way one fears a murderer. That unnamed source I spoke of, I think they said something to that effect, but they used a better (than usual) and direct translation of the Hebrew words to prove it.
benzun_1999: Sorry again, back to the Bible then.

[benzun_1999]

Originally posted by Jonathan
FZ+: That is correct, God is to be feared only if you are not sorry for your sins, and I try to be, so I think I'm doing pretty good. The parts of the Bible that say things about fearing God are inaccurate. Unfortunatly, I don't remember what exactly they really ment or where I heard that, so I can't argue that very far. Also, need I remind you that Jesus was more powerful than the demons? That's like me being afraid of a grain of sand, so of course he wasn't. Regardless, this isn't the religion forum.


What bible tells is that we have to respect God. Fearmeans to Respect God in the Bible.(it is becoming to religious [;)] )

[Jonathan]

Yes, but I think they should just use the word respect, esp. given there is so much concensus on what fear was meant to mean. By (it is becoming to religious [;)]) Do you mean 'this thread is becoming too religious'? If so, I agree, so we should get back on topic or stop.

[benzun_1999]

Originally posted by wasteofo2
Look dude, it's a wooden board with letters painted on it, nothing more, just a wooden board with letters. If demons want to communicate with you and they can only do so through this little piece of wood then they're pathetic demons to begin with and shouldn't be feared in any way.

It is just a board with word in the begining, then when you get hooked it changes into everything in your life (a power), and finally when you find that it is wrong and try to destroy it, it trys to kill you.

So there is nothing to fear right? [6)]

[Jonathan]

I have never heard of murderous wooden planks, but I do agree, if you come to believe in it, you will likely start believing in all sorts of New Agey mumbo-jumbo.

[wasteofo2]

Originally posted by benzun_1999
It is just a board with word in the begining, then when you get hooked it changes into everything in your life (a power), and finally when you find that it is wrong and try to destroy it, it trys to kill you.

So there is nothing to fear right? [6)]

The only time wooden boards kill people is when they're propelled at high speeds.

[Zero]

Originally posted by wasteofo2
The only time wooden boards kill people is when they're propelled at high speeds. Especially if they have pointy pieces of metal attached to the end!

[Jeebus]

Originally posted by wasteofo2
The only time wooden boards kill people is when they're propelled at high speeds.

True, true.

And the fact that a person takes a "communication" seriously enough to have it significantly interfere with the enjoyment of life might be a sufficient reason for avoiding the Ouija board as being more than a "harmless bit of entertainment," but it is hardly a sufficient reason for concluding that the messages issue from anything but our own minds.

I once played a Ouija board at checkers, all it said was 'yes'. That's when I threw it across the room.

[Zero]

Originally posted by Jeebus
True, true.

And the fact that a person takes a "communication" seriously enough to have it significantly interfere with the enjoyment of life might be a sufficient reason for avoiding the Ouija board as being more than a "harmless bit of entertainment," but it is hardly a sufficient reason for concluding that the messages issue from anything but our own minds.

I once played a Ouija board at checkers, all it said was 'yes'. That's when I threw it across the room. And it didn't fly back and hit you? Or set fire to your car?

[Jeebus]

Originally posted by Zero
And it didn't fly back and hit you? Or set fire to your car?

No; It kept saying 'maybe'. [:D]

[zoobyshoe]

Originally posted by benzun_1999
Pleasedont change my religion. I am a christian from India presently reciding in Oman
Sorry.

[zoobyshoe]

Originally posted by Jonathan zoobyshoe: I disagree, my experience with the insane has shown me that they are far more dangerous than many think.
If you want to make an accurate statement about the dangerousness of mentally ill people in general you can't simply use your own experiences. Lots and lots of statistics have been gathered about this from people who treat the mentally ill and the fact remains that the majority are not dangerous.

[zoobyshoe]

Originally posted by benzun_1999
It is just a board with word in the begining, then when you get hooked it changes into everything in your life (a power), and finally when you find that it is wrong and try to destroy it, it trys to kill you.

So there is nothing to fear right? [6)]
It is psychologically dangerous for some people to get involved with ouija boards. I don't believe this has anything to do with evil spirits.

Some people are more prone than others to irrational emotions and psychotic thinking. These people have trouble with ouija boards, horoscopes, fortune tellers, all manner of charlatans, not to mention gambling, and drug and alcohol abuse. Getting involved with a ouija board could indeed, push someone like this over the edge into psychosis, but because it would be the result of them deliberately engaging in a fantasy state of mind over and over untill it became extremely difficult to stop, not because of spirits.

[Jonathan]

zoobyshoe: Oh, well, you can't be sure who this minority of dangerous and insane are, can you?

[zoobyshoe]

Originally posted by Jonathan
zoobyshoe: Oh, well, you can't be sure who this minority of dangerous and insane are, can you?
Why not?

[Jonathan]

I think I wasn't clear. Given a group of people known to be insane, it probably wouldn't take you long to figure out which are the most dangerous. But I was thinking more along the lines of a convenience store clerk say in Las Vegas. So many people pass through Las Vegas that there is no way this guy will ever see essentially anyone he mets again, let alone remember them. So if there is someone who just stops by and buys something, he has no prior experience and probably no future experience with this person, he'll never know if they're insane and dangerous unless they are doing something weird right then.
My point was along the lines of the fact that often you can't just look at them and tell they wil go off any second now. Of course if they start trying to kill you, you'll figure it out.

[stevenson]

Hey wasteofo2 nice STORY [:D]

Ouija Board is nothing more than a tax on the stupid, sorry. [*(]

[zoobyshoe]

Originally posted by Jonathan My point was along the lines of the fact that often you can't just look at them and tell they wil go off any second now. Of course if they start trying to kill you, you'll figure it out.
OK. What I'm saying is that the percentage of mentally ill people who will suddenly lose it and try to kill someone is small relative to the total number of mentally ill.

As far as danger from unknown strangers you are probably more at risk from essentially non-mentally ill criminals, and from "artificially" mentally ll people, by which I mean those on the kinds of street drugs that make people violent.

[Jonathan]

yep

[phoenixthoth]

i've been using a technique similar to the ouja board except that instead of using a board, i just write. a kind of auto-writing and one could conjecture that the communication is with an external spirit, with their subconscious, with their conscious perhaps alter-ego, with a combination of the subconscious and ego, or in other terminology, their higher selves and little selves. the way i do it is i write "what do i need to know at this time?" then i just auto-write a response without thinking about it, trying to explain it, censoring, judging it, reading it, etc. i just let it happen and go with the flow. i absolutely don't assume that everything stated is the truth except that is truly is a reflection of something though i suspect that something to likely be internal. the ouja board is just a slower version of this. sometimes i go through phases where everything i write is in this mode...

[zoobyshoe]

I was about to start a thread on automatic writing when I noticed this ouija board thread and figured someone would point out it was essentially the same activity.

Once when I was writing down some thoughts about something I fell into what I suppose was automatic writing. It didn't feel like what I was writing was my own thoughts, but someone elses better organized and articulated thinking on the same subject.

This feeling it wasn't me freaked me out and I didn't finish writing the ideas down.

[phoenixthoth]

if you suspect that the source of the words is some external entity, it can be scary for one fears "it" taking over.

in my opinion, it is you. just parts of you not ordinarily tapped into.

to integrate those parts or not to integrate those parts, that is the question...

just as a side comment, i think sometimes "slips" are those parts poking through. one wonders what will happen when those parts do more than just poke through.

you can engage "it" it dialogues. who are you? where do you come from? why are you writing? what can you see from your perspective?

i've heard other people say that they're so terrified of it that they wouldn't even write it down in a locked file no one else could read for fear, however unlikely, that someone else will read it. likewise, i find that upon looking at what i've written, i'm quite reluctant to share it anymore, though some of my posts are from this perspective. a transition can occur to where not only what you write is from this perspective but what you think also is. in some of those cases, what you used to think of as you is but a fading memory though some would say that the lesser is only being exchanged for the greater.

[zoobyshoe]

Originally posted by phoenixthoth
if you suspect that the source of the words is some external entity, it can be scary for one fears "it" taking over.

in my opinion, it is you. just parts of you not ordinarily tapped into.

to integrate those parts or not to integrate those parts, that is the question...
I tend to agree that it is some aspect of myself.

The prospect of this particular "voice" or level of consciousness being allowed to speak onward wasn't alarming. What bothered me was the prospect of getting into the habit of letting something that didn't feel like me talk away, and then having go bad, in a purely psychological version of Benzun's fear of being sucked in to the ouija board by evil spirits. I've heard all these same stories about it being cool at first and then turning nasty, both in conjunction with ouija boards and automatic writing.

Did you ever hear about the bzarre happenings with the autistic "facilitators"?. This was a case where the same thing happened but startng out from a completely non-spiritualistic or psychological springboard. It just seems to be a fact of human psychology that when a person starts writing freeform without critical observation that they can tap directly into the subconscious and sometimes into some pretty ugly stuff.[/B][/QUOTE]

[phoenixthoth]

in terms of ugly stuff, one could say that that is what i sometimes try to do. probe deeper and deeper, looking for all that ugly stuff. to get to know myself, the real me. who am i? what is my nature? how do i know? am i sure? what am i hiding from myself?

there's a character on the hbo series carnivale who can make people go "insane" by looking into them and showing them some ugly stuff about them. also kinda reminds me of hannibal lectur who analyzes you and psychologically dissects you. would you want to perform explorative self-psychological-surgury? what would be the benefit? can you purge things or can what you don't know not hurt you? or can it? but one also wonders about the fate of curious cats... then again, what else is there to fear but fear?

like i mentioned earlier, this stuff is at least tangentially related to dissociative states. i mention that because it is sometimes the case that you don't know what you're writing at the time and/or you completely forget what you wrote after you're done. and when i go back and read old stuff, i get new things out of it almost every time and most times it seems like i still don't remember what i wrote even though i read it plenty of times...

[zoobyshoe]

Originally posted by phoenixthoth
in terms of ugly stuff, one could say that that is what i sometimes try to do. probe deeper and deeper, looking for all that ugly stuff. to get to know myself, the real me. who am i? what is my nature? how do i know? am i sure? what am i hiding from myself?
When I'm in the mood to do this I would be more inclined to analyze my dreams. It's safer, and all the ugly stuff is right there.
there's a character on the hbo series carnivale who can make people go "insane" by looking into them and showing them some ugly stuff about them. also kinda reminds me of hannibal lectur who analyzes you and psychologically dissects you.
I haven't seen this show. I've seen all four films with the Hannibal Lectur character.
would you want to perform explorative self-psychological-surgury? what would be the benefit? can you purge things or can what you don't know not hurt you? or can it? but one also wonders about the fate of curious cats... then again, what else is there to fear but fear?
Cliche's , maybe.
like i mentioned earlier, this stuff is at least tangentially related to dissociative states. i mention that because it is sometimes the case that you don't know what you're writing at the time and/or you completely forget what you wrote after you're done. and when i go back and read old stuff, i get new things out of it almost every time and most times it seems like i still don't remember what i wrote even though i read it plenty of times...
This latter part is certainly something everyone should avoid. Anything a person does repeatedly can become a habit, and as such, extremely difficult to stop. Dissociation is not a place anyone wants to be stuck.

[phoenixthoth]

When I'm in the mood to do this I would be more inclined to analyze my dreams. It's safer, and all the ugly stuff is right there.

one thing to do is write up a dream and then write, "what does this dream mean?" and then autowrite.

a specific instance of this is when my friend dreamed about a man with a coyote's head who he remembers saying something to him but he can't remember what was said. i suggested writing, "what did the coyote/man say to me?" not only did he not want to try this, he didn't want to know.

[zoobyshoe]

Originally posted by phoenixthoth i suggested writing, "what did the coyote/man say to me?" not only did he not want to try this, he didn't want to know.
Freud went into this in The Interpretation Of Dreams (a great book, if you can still read in your current dissociative state). The parts of dreams that we recall as "vague" are actually intentionally vague. They may not have been while the dream was occuring, but they are upon recollection because they contain key points we "don't want to know".

[phoenixthoth]

(a great book, if you can still read in your current dissociative state).
do you mean me right now or potentially someone in general in the habit of autowriting?

perhaps dissocitative states are what occurs during dreams, too... hmm... so if autowriting can uncover what was lost during dreams, then perhaps autowriting can help one recall what is lost in dissociative states in general. but that seems to fall into the same credibility dilemas associated with recall through hypnosis.

[zoobyshoe]

Originally posted by phoenixthoth do you mean me right now or potentially someone in general in the habit of autowriting?
I was teasing.
perhaps dissocitative states are what occurs during dreams, too... hmm... so if autowriting can uncover what was lost during dreams, then perhaps autowriting can help one recall what is lost in dissociative states in general.
My own belief about dreams are that their primary function is neurological. Throughout the day all kinds of trains of thought must be stopped before completion for many different reasons. This results in alot of neurons that are on the verge of firing but don't have all the "go" signals they need to actually do it. The point of dreams in this situation is to create trains of thought that will go through and trigger as many of these trains as possible to fire through to completion, thus resetting things back to neutral. The resulting stories and scenarios are of psychological interest because their content is esentially "repressed" or "suppressed" thinking. Freud, of course, came up with the part about psychologically repressed thoughts coming out in dreams, but the part about the primarily neurological need to dream is my own speculation.
Dissociative states as they occur in mental illness are thought to be defense mechanisms. That is also, really, just speculation. I'm not sure where you would start looking to compare them to dreams and see if there are any provable similarities.
but that seems to fall into the same credibility dilemas associated with recall through hypnosis. False memories can be a huge problem.

[phoenixthoth]

indeed, false memories can be a problem. i've had a problem with one false memory...

[benzun_1999]

Please Forgive me for not being here during the complete discusion. I had my exams so i could'nt log on. Anyway i am back.

-Benzun
all For God!!!!!!!!

[phoenixthoth]

I was teasing.
it's kind of interesting that you mentioned it because i thought due to a browser glitch that some posts i made didn't make it to the board and/or got deleted and i completely forgot what i wrote.

[cizek111]

To engage in a ouija board is stupid in the first place. I think a while ago my parents told me never to use one because of it's connection with the devil. The devil is a loser and he'll burn in hell one day too. So basically my advice is to stay away from them. Yes, I'm curious, but I'd rather be on the safe side. Glory to God. Happy Easter!

[phoenixthoth]

this is a joke right?

just cuz mommy and daddy said so doesn't make it so.

[Ivan Seeking]

No debates or preaching about religion please. :smile: