Easy to understand, hard to solve

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around proving that if a function "f" is continuous and has no zeros on an interval, then it must be either positive or negative throughout that interval. The conversation includes attempts to apply the Intermediate Value Theorem and explores the implications of continuity versus differentiability.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a proof attempt using the assumption that if f(x) and f(x+dx) have opposite signs, it leads to a contradiction, suggesting that f(x) must maintain a consistent sign.
  • Another participant challenges the initial approach by noting that continuity does not imply differentiability, and provides a counterexample where f(x) could take on both positive and negative values, leading to a contradiction with the hypothesis.
  • A third participant emphasizes the importance of the Intermediate Value Theorem, stating that if f is continuous on an interval, it must take on all values between f(a) and f(b), which could imply the existence of zeros if both signs are present.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of continuity and the validity of the proposed proofs. There is no consensus on the best approach to the problem, and the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Some assumptions about the function's properties and theorems available to participants are not fully articulated, which may affect the validity of the arguments presented.

moham_87
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hi
that is my first time, and i have questions for my exam.

* Show that if a function "f" is continuous and has no zeros on an interval, then either f(x)>0 or f(x)<0 for every "x" in the interval
(Intermediate Value Theorem)

I solved it in that way:
since no zeros in the interval then the interval will be
(-inf,0)U(0,inf)
so f(x) will not be 0... but that can be possible, and didn't know how to do it?

please i need the answer in maximum 2 days :frown:
any efforts will be appreciated
thank you
 
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I always had trouble with these. I always would just think, "that's true by definition. How can I prove it?"

First, assume that it is not true. Then, for some value of x on the interval, f(x) and f(x+dx) will have opposite signs, so that:

f(x)f(x+dx)<0 (positive * negative is always <0)

using the basic definition of a derivative, f'(x)=[f(x+dx)-f(x)]/dx you can solve for f(x+dx)=dx*f'(x)+f(x)

substituting, you get:

f(x)*[dx*f'(x)+f(x)]<0

Take the limit as dx->0 and:

f(x)*f(x)<0

The left side of the equation is a square, it can not be <0

So assuming the thing you are trying to prove is false yields an impossibility.


I think this is good.
Njorl

PS- I know I used sloppy notation, dx instead of delta x. I forgot how to make deltas.
 
Nice approach, but just because the function is continuous, doesn't mean that it's differentiable.

Lets say we have f(x) > 0 and f(y) < 0 with x,y on the interval.
let a = min (x,y) and b=max(x,y)
Clearly (a,b) is contained in the interval. Therefore f is continuous on [a,b].
It's also clear that 0 is between f(a) and f(a)

Then by applying the intermediate value theorem we get hat there must be some point x on the interval [a,b] such that f(x)=0, but this contradicts the hypothesis that [tex]f(x) \neq 0[/tex] on the interval.
 
How you would do this depends upon what prior theorems you have to work with. Have you had the "intermediate value theorem"? That says that if f(x) is continuous on [a,b] then, on [a,b], f takes on all values between f(a) and f(b).
 

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