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-   -   Time Travel: Fact and Fiction (http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=14155)

 Antonio Lao Feb9-04 01:54 PM

Time Travel: Fact and Fiction

To Everyone Who loves Time Travel,

The English science fiction writer H.G. Wells wrote the book 'Time Machine' in 1895. As far as I know, this is the only book about time travel written before Einstein's special theory of relativity of 1905. H. G. Wells could have influence Einstein but Einstein did not assert that time travel is possible. What Einstein did say is that space and time are linked into a four dimensional continuum.

The theory of space-time says that space and time can only change as a group. Time cannot change by itself and same with space. If one change the space, time also change. The universal expansion of space can also imply that time change as indicated by the increase of entropy.

but what happens if the universe is contracting? We can say that the entropy is then decreasing, just the reverse of expansion. If the increase in entropy is one direction of time then the decrease in entropy is the other direction of time. Both directions are related to what is happening to space. One case is that space is expanding and the other is that space is contracting.

But light in the form of a photon does not change in space-time. Photon (unit of light) is always constant in the space-time continuum. So if we really want to travel in time, we must become a photon then we can move in the space-time continuum without getting older or getting younger. We live forever and go anywhere, we are then moving constantly at the speed of light. The key is that our mass have to be zero like the photon.

Antonio

 Antonio Lao Feb10-04 09:49 AM

Facts and questions:

When we look at the starry night sky thru the telescope, we are actually looking into the past.

The past history of the universe is encapsulated inside the photon that we detected. The question is: Is this the original photon which have the original informations? Or is it just a faithful copy of the original photon preserving the original informations?

If this is the original photon then it did not aged. If this is a copy then many photon have died before it. Einstein would have said that this is the original photon and it never aged.

The farthest things, and therefore the oldest, our optical or radio telescopes can see are the quasars. The energy source of a quasar is billion times the energy of a single galaxy. Therefore the energy of the original photon must have been very large. The photon always move at 300,000 km/s, It must be the frequency or the wavelength that changed thru the ages of the journey. This explain the redshifts and the expansion of space.

Can a single photon from the big bang contain all the informations of the universe? Or at least two photons? How many photons will be needed to contain all informations of the universe?

Fiction:

If we were to be surrounded by photons into a perfectly closed volume, we will appear just like a photon with only size differences. Then we can move at the speed of light in vacuum and do some time traveling!

Antonio

Photons were not produced immediately after the big bang (in the standard cosmology). The universe was tiny and opaque then. See Lineweqver's online essay - I believe the link is easily available on the Strings Branes and LQG board.

 Antonio Lao Feb10-04 12:05 PM

Thanks for your enlightenment on cosmology and the big bang.

What I really wanted to know is whether the primeval photons contain the informations of the entire universe at the epoch when they were formed. If they do, what is the minimum number of photons before duplications (copies of the same infos) start.

Antonio

The cosmic microwave background radiation, which I think is the photons you are referring to, was produced as soon as the young universe became transparent, and scientists are finding more and more detail about that early period in the subtleties we are now able to detect and interpret with the CMB. I don't think however that it holds ALL the information about the early universe, just because there are other reactions that don't happen to produce photons.

 Antonio Lao Feb10-04 12:54 PM

Facts:

Every event in the past is recorded by each own number of photons. If we take the entire earth as an event or world-point, this world-point radiates continuous number of photons into outer space. If we can intercept some of these escaping photons then we can look back (by extracting the infos out of the photons) into the past of earth just like viewing a prerecorded program on TV.

Let's try to follow the path of one photon as it escape from the event it originated from on planet earth. In one second, this photon will be almost at the moon. In 4 hours, this photon will be at the orbit of Pluto. In 8.6 years, this photon will be at the brightest star Sirius. In 24,000 years, this photon will be at the center of the Milky Way. Whatever object intercepted these photons, it is capable of reflecting (assuming perfect blackbody) these photons back to earth. And if we can filter all the photons we detected, we can basically extract the informations of the past.

Antonio

 Antonio Lao Feb10-04 01:13 PM

Thanks for the infos on CMBR and photon productions.

Antonio

 Antonio Lao Feb10-04 01:39 PM

Speculations:

If it can be theorized that all antimatter travel in a different timeline than the matter counterpart then the phenomena of vacuum fluctuations produce virtual photons which contain informations of the past and the future. Half of the virtual photons in the universe contains all the past events and the other half contains all the future events.

The problem is how to separate the past-photons from the future-photons and after they are separated how to extract the informations.

 Max Emessay Feb27-04 07:23 PM

Time travel ....... time tunnel......time warping......
Space journey.....just 4.5 light years in next our nearest neighbor stars...Alpha Centauri
Like we step by step ( digit by digit ) Pyramid of Universe, at the top we have only scale of 10,000 yrs and at the bottom we have huge scale of 15,000,000,000 yrs. Why we have to accept into our visions of terms of "Impossibility" or "Unreachable" or "Untouchable".
Our body have about 30 trillions live-cells, there beyond of outer space we just look "unreachable" trillions trillions stars. Just starring out without reachable possibility when and when. But the most beautiful visions are in " Paradise of Earth Life Itself", Life Color, Life Characters, Life Organizations, Life Evolution are THE TOP OF ACHIEVEMENTS OF SPACE TIME, probably it is just in ONE SINGULARITY-EVENT.
In challanging of time travel we have to discover questions of DNA/RNA self-replicating molecules, waiting in next 100 yrs probably humans have answers about "IMMORTALITY" then we are freely think about 4,5 light yrs , 100 light-yrs .....at last 13.8 bya....??

http://www.memorigin.com

 Antonio Lao Mar1-04 07:09 AM

Max Emessay,

Recently, I finished reading a book by John Gribbin entitled "TIMEWARPS." In this book which was published in 1979, Gribbin relates the connection of time and mind. He discussed about dreams and reincarnation. Hinted how the mind can be used to control time.

I am now reading his other book called "SPACEWARPS." This was published in 1983. I am doing all my research readings in backward by buying bargain books. I am also doing my own independent research on the origin of mass in physics. And now I am leaning toward a conclusion that in order to find the true meaning of mass, we must first find the connection to a parallel universe where its time's flow direction is "opposite" to ours.

Antonio

 oscar Apr21-04 07:15 PM

Antonio, what you say has sense. If Eliah traveled in a charriot of "fire" (light) he should've become that "fire". Michio Kaku explains the energy demanding such journey into space-time is impressive and can't be achieve by human beings. But I do ask: Is it imposible to think we DON'T NEED THAT ENERGY if the tissue of space-time uses whatever energy it possess opening VORTEX in specific circumstances? Let's say eclipses, alignment of planets, equinoxes, solstices...all well known by ancient civilizations of the past...something Michio Kaku didn't pay attention remonting just a few centuries but not other ones knowing the math we inherited. It's curious he didn't mention Nikolai Tesla nor Oppenheimer who were well versed in the Hindu "vimanas" using mercury and other elements. In the book The Lost Tomb of Viracocha by engineer knowing about Sun magnetism cycles, the author Maurice Cotterell has many things to share about the ancient preference of using copper devices rather than iron and the reasons related to geomagnetism and temples made of stone, creating a short circuit. When I saw the special FX in the film STARGATE I thought about the liquid Casimir efect and the photograph shown in:
www.keelynet.com/unclass/hardy1.htm
And the odd experience related to altered time:
www.amasci.com/freenrg/pyrexp1.html

 oscar Apr21-04 07:29 PM

www.dowsing.com/Pyramid/pyener.htm
Well, even that science fiction could explain travel in space and not necessarily time.
www.electrogravity.com/index2.html
www.atributetohinduism.com/Vimanas.htm
www.world-mysteries.com/sar_7.htm
http://ancientgravitics.tripod.com
Of course, I know this information gotta be seen by skeptical people. It's good to be skeptical but it's hard to define the thin limits between that and being cynical. If I make a theory, it doesn't matter. But if physicist Robert Oppenheimer giving a lecture at Rochester University and was the supervisor of Manhattan Proyect and was familiar with Sanskrit scriptures answered to a student that the bomb exploding at Alamogordo, Mexico, was the first to detonate IN MODERN TIMES, it's because he took the references in Mahabharata, Ramayama, Bagavad Gita as TRUTH from the past. He learned Sanksrit with Professor Arthur Ryder in Berkeley. So that is even more relevant than Kaku's reference to Hindu mathematician who received the math formulas from Hindu goddess.

 oscar Apr22-04 05:04 AM

And adding a lit bit about "light", it's interesting the same entity "deceiving the mind" of Eve (that means a connection measured probably by Hertz frequence or Alpha and Beta brain waves) and called Satan disguiseds himself into light (2 Corinthians 11:2,14). Whenever we want to talk about science we choose to select the Greek philosophers, but not too many people cared to investigate -let's say- why apostle Paul choosed the Greek word in this text "metaschematizo" meaning metamorphosis, transfiguration or disguise. Perhaps, Mr. Carl Sagan and his friend Hoagland instead of imagining life existence on Mars, Jupiter or whatever planet and sending Pioneer to outerspace, should've taken a better look into hyperdimensions right here on Earth or possible vortex behaving like mini-black holes. Who knows, poincare and orbifolds cones are opened via odd ways and we'll discover alien activity not OUTSIDE but NEXT or WITHIN....something of an INNERSPACE linked precisely with "light".

 Stevo Apr22-04 05:40 AM

The use of time travel as a literary device began in the late 19th century, incidentally.

Do you have a reference before Wells' "Time Machine?". I'm not aware of any time travel story by Poe or Verne.

 sol2 Apr22-04 08:30 AM

Just thought I would add this. Thanks to prevous poster.

One of the earliest methods for fictional time travel didn't involve a machine; the main character in Washington Irving's "Rip van Winkle" (1819) simply fell asleep for decades. King Arthur's daughter Gweneth slept for 500 years under Merlin's spell. Ancient legends of time distortion are, in fact, quite common. One of the most poetic descriptions of time travel occurs in a popular medieval legend describing a monk entranced for a minute by the song of a magical bird. When the bird stops singing, the monk discovers that several hundred years have passed. Another example is the Moslem legend of Muhammad carried by a mare into heaven. After a long visit, the prophet returns to Earth just in time to catch a jar of water the horse had kicked over before starting its ascent.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/time/through.html

 oscar Apr22-04 08:34 AM

For instance, we're talking about gravity thinking about Newton and yet we forget sometimes Einstein's idea about gravity was an ilusion caused by deformation of the space. So all calculations made on Earth or whatever object could well be just math about mere deformation of particular object IN THE SPACE. I wonder if our telescopes or Hubble mirror are just like a bigger proyection of our limited "vision" staring the ever-stretching universe from THIS CORNER OF THE COSMOS. We're not in the center of the universe, so everything we watch it's like watching a baseball game in the corner of the stadium. If the things were "seen" from that particular center angle, would the orbits look eliptic or circular while Deimos and Phobos could be seen in circular orbits? The trayectory of the "balls". Even the calculation of gravity could well be speculation or using tricks:
www.newphys.se/elektromagnum/physics/Jonsson
I've read radio-astronomers using radio interferometry got to the conclusion gravity has the same speed of light.
Oh yes, I wrote light and you immediately think in the memorized formula Einstein probably copied from someone else decades before:
299.792,5 KM per second. Yet, that is along A STRAIGHT LINE in vaccuum space rather than experiences in absolute coldness or inside camera with cesium when you can see light getting out BEFORE entering, that is a journey from the future to the past. If you don't consider that straight line but 144.000 minutes of an arc per second using angular degrees upon the circle of the Earth surface, the light travels in the circle of our planet 6,66 times per second:
http://www.geocities.com/CapitalHill...460/bruce.html
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill...60/brucea.html
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill...60/bruceb.html

 oscar Apr22-04 08:40 AM

Write after 'com' : /CapitolHill/Parliament/3460/bruce.html
in order to write the complete site.
Hence, it's good to remember Michio Kaku's humble statement the physicist dn't have slightest idea why certain numbers like 10, 26 are chosen in superstring theory, or Ramanujan math "inspiration". So allow me to remind you that number 144.000 was "chosen" by Mayas in their Baktun calendar and Apocalipsis 13:18 after explaining the code 666 immediately after, in the following verse (Apoc 14:1) gives the code 144.000. That is something related to light, Sun (worshipped in many cultures knowing about solstices, eclipses, equinoxes) and you can check more information about how Sun magnetism affect our planet in Maurice Cotterell's books:
www.mauricecotterell.com/synopsis02.htm

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