He wrote a book called Geons, Black Holes, and Quantum Foam: A Life in Physics

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around various models of the universe's creation, particularly focusing on the No-Boundary Universe concept as presented by Stephen Hawking. Participants explore theoretical implications, observational evidence, and alternative models, engaging in a mix of speculative reasoning and technical arguments.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant highlights the No-Boundary Universe model, suggesting it allows for a universe without boundaries, akin to the surface of the Earth.
  • Another participant raises concerns about the No-Boundary model in light of modern observations indicating the universe's flatness.
  • Some argue that the limitations of human perception prevent definitive rejection of the No-Boundary model, emphasizing the use of familiar models to explain complex concepts.
  • A participant introduces the idea of a hyperspherical universe, suggesting that beings on its surface would not perceive curvature, paralleling the experience of a flatlander on a sphere.
  • One post discusses the implications of space expanding perpendicular to time, proposing that this affects how we perceive light from distant galaxies.
  • Another participant challenges the notion of looking toward the center of a hypersphere, emphasizing that we only perceive the hypersurface and referencing the cosmic microwave background as evidence of flatness.
  • Some participants mention Kaluza-Klein theory in relation to the discussion, suggesting connections between different theoretical frameworks.
  • There are claims that the universe may be one-dimensional or even dimensionless, with time and space being perceived constructs rather than fundamental aspects of reality.
  • One participant suggests that consciousness may play a role in the nature of the universe, referencing physicists who have explored these ideas.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views, with no clear consensus on the validity of the No-Boundary Universe model or its implications. Multiple competing theories and interpretations are presented, indicating ongoing debate and exploration of the topic.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge limitations in observational data and the challenges of interpreting complex theoretical models. The discussion reflects a variety of assumptions and perspectives that influence the interpretations of the universe's structure and behavior.

Tom McCurdy
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Everyone keeps discussing some forms of the big bang models for the creation of the universe, however upon reading hawkings The theory of everything, he discussed many models for the creation of the universe. One, that i found particularlly interesting was the idea of the No-Boundary Universe, in which the universe is shaped like the outside of the earth, allowing you to go around the universe and end up in the same point in which you started. It seemed to me upon the completion of the book that Hawking seemed to like this theory and maybe would be considered his current thought of the beginning when the book was published. I was wondering if there was any new news about the no-boundary model?

:smile:
 
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I don't know if this makes trouble for the no-boundary proposal, but modern studies of the skies show the universe is flat as far as the eye can see (except for local gravity wells of course). The degree of flatness is also extreme, and stresses our understanding of basic physics.
 
ofcourse but the eye cannot see so far as to reject a no-boundary model and from a point of view this model sounds reasonable, but then... people always have a drift of using familiar models (from everyday life) to explain something unknown.
 
well, there is no 3 dimensional bountry, but there is a 4 dimensional bountry,
 
Self...

if the Universe were a hypersphere, and we were 3d beings living on the surface of the hypersphere, we would not see a curvature to space just like a flatlander would not see a curvature of a sphere he lived on.


also, there is a reason that when we look out into the universe in ultra deep field studies that we see proto galaxies, etc., it is because we are looking toward the center of the hypersphere and see the universe as it was.

since our local sensory input is based on our experience in 3d world, and out deep views are based on time, it make sense that localy we see nothing to indicate curvature, and since time is flat and smooth, when we look back to the beginings of the universe, we see flat curvature.

hmm...I just had an interesting thought about travel through space.

space is expanding perpendicular to time.

that is why we see light from 100,000 years ago. otherwise, if time was parralel with space, travel around the universe would not be a problem, or if space was expanding at some angle other than perpendicular to time, you would have a diffrence function os movment through space with relation to time than we have.

so, in order to get to another location in the universe quicker, rather than travel along the space vector, we need to travel through the time vector, at least a little bit.

wow...it is interesting to look at travel through space-time from that perspective... sorry for the half OT comment.
 
"Looking toward the center of the hypersphere?" No, we live and see only in the hypersurface of that hypersphere, if you get my drift. Think of all the light rays as lines trawn on the taut surface of the analogous balloon. And as for the perceived flatness, this goes far beyond the ant on the balloon analogy because the microwave background gives us a kind of record of the past, and that confirms the flatness.
 
well, that is one way to see it, however, you do not take into account the path over time.

if you take the path of the light over time, you get a streight line from below the surface of the hypersphere where and when the event occurred to Earth on the surface of the HSphere, so we are looking into the hypersphere.
 
This has another name

Your theory has another name modmans, it is Kaluza Klein theory.

To the original poster, Hawking defineately likes the No boundary because he did discuss it with the pope (and good thing that the pope did not know what Hawking was implying with NB, there is no creator).
 
modmans2ndcoming said:
well, there is no 3 dimensional bountry, but there is a 4 dimensional bountry,

some say that are universe is 1 dimensional to the third power, and exists in a straight line, expanding from either side into infinity
 
  • #10
calculii said:
universe is 1 dimensional to the third power, and exists in a straight line, expanding from either side into infinity
..until next barrel of vacuum energy we are sitting on explodes and puts stop to the existence of the universe as we know it.Perhaps~pretty probably~perhaps~pretty probably...
 
  • #11
Dimesnionless universe

The universe is probably dimensionless and time and space(spacetime) is an illusion caused by the introduction of measurement, which in turn would make time and space a psychic (mental) phenomena (for that matter the universe as a whole might be a psychic phenomena but my views may be bias since I am an idealist not a materialist). The nonlocality of subatomic particles SUGGEST (not proves) this. If you find these concepts interesting I suggest reading the basic writings of physicist David Bohm. Physicist F. David Peat also has some interesting ideas on these subjects and he has a website that can be found on a search engine by simply typing in his name.
The famous physicst John A. Wheeler believes consciousness plays a central role in the universe but he (like a lot of physicists) tends to keep his metaphysical views close to his chest in the public eye.
 

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