Q: How does the speed of thinking affect our perception and sense of self?

[ElectroPhysics]

"Think of the devil and there he is", definitely a devil knows the speed of thinking. I need your openion on the following question.
Q: What is the speed of thinking

A) Infinite
B) limited and variable
C) Constant other than speed of light
D) Same as speed of light
E) Zero
D) Not discovered till now
E) None of the above
F) Any other option that u know

 

[Ivan Seeking]

...The brain's neural networks are made up of nerve cells that exchange pulses via synaptic connections. Unlike atoms in a crystal, which are arranged on a regular, cubic lattice, nerve cells grow synaptic connections in a highly specific but irregular fashion. The team of researchers -- Theo Geisel, Marc Timme, and Fred Wolf --came up with a mathematical model which can precisely determine how fast neurons can coordinate their activity.

As could be expected, they found that the more highly connected the neural networks are, the faster the neurons can synchonize. But what was surprising was that this speed has an upper limit. Even in areas of the brain with the most dense neural networks, thought coordination can only happen so fast.

This "speed limit" on thought comes about because of the complicated switching structure of the neural networks. Only if every single neuron in the brain were connected with every other single neuron would the speed limit not apply. [continued]

http://www.dw-world.de/english/0,3367,1446_A_1143790_1_A,00.html

Note also that according to everything that we know, the speed of light would apply in any case.

 

[Chen]

You won't believe me, but I thought about this just the other day. I was wondering how fast humans are able to think and perform calculations. I guess my answer would be limited and variable, not necessarily from one person to another, but from one type of "thinking" to another.

 

[motai]

Might this also explain other reactions as well? Consider a sprinter. When the gun is fired, it usually takes 1/100th of a second for the sound of the gunshot to register in the brain before the sprinter takes off.

 

[jimmy p]

My thinking speed is half the speed of my acting/speaking speed.

 

[Jake]

Human thinking speed varies on many factors. For example, say your trying to figure out an algebraic equation, and for some reason, you decide to solve it in a very round about way...your thinking will be slow. But say you chose to solve it in the traditional way, you will figure it out pretty fast (taking out the variable factor of how fast you write). So your overall thinking speed varies largely based on the decisions you make and how much you know.

It seems the actual computational speed of the brain is relativly the same, but the difference comes about what is computed. Depending on what is computed in the brain, a given task can vary widely

Ofcourse that's all speculation

 

[Macgyver]

I would also speculate that the distraction factor plays a major role in computational speed. (For me it is a very big factor) You may be able to process very quickly but if you contiualy get side tracked or take a second to think of something else (ie "what was that noise"), it may be a very short time spent thining about it, you will have to think back to where you left off.

But then again I may just have ADD.

 

[ElectroPhysics]

I don't believe in telepathy. May be because i don't know how it works. If I'm not wrong these people claim that they can communicate to others mind.
What do u think, they communicate instantly i.e. without time delay?

 

[Adam]

Computer
Computational Units: 1CPU, 10^8 gates
Storage Units: 10^10 bits RAM, 10^11 bits disc
Cyclic Time: 10^-9 seconds
Bandwidth: 10^10 bits/second
Memory Updates/Second: 10^9

Human Brain
Computational Units: 10^11 neurones
Storage Units: 10^11 neurones, 10^14 synapses
Cyclic Time: 10^-3 seconds
Bandwidth: 10^14 bits/second
Memory Updates/Second: 10^14

Approximate figures as of 2003. Note that the computer numbers have all increased by at least a factor of ten over the past decade, and are expected to do it again this coming decade. The human brain has barely changed in 10,000 years.

Human brain wins on massive parallel processing.

All this info courtesy of Artificial Intelligence: A Modern Approach, Second Edition, Stuart Russel and Peter Norvig.

 

[Chen]

That's nice, Adam, but can the human brain continuously "work" at 10¹⁴ updates per second for more than a few hours (or minutes!)? Not to mention, how much of that power do we actually utilize when solving problems?

 

[Adam]

Some parts of the brain work continuously at functions related to keeping the body alive. Some parts work more or less at different times. Either way, currently our brains do a lot more than any computers.

 

[Chen]

Some parts of the brain work continuously at functions related to keeping the body alive. Some parts work more or less at different times. Either way, currently our brains do a lot more than any computers.

Theoretically they could do a lot more, but I don't believe they actually do. I think it'd be better to say that our brains could do a lot better than computers if we were able to focus ourselves better. Currently computers can and do solve problems faster than any human could, which is why they are used so extensively in almost any field of research.

 

[Jake]

I don't think the actual speed of the nueronally activity changes, but I do think that what and how much neural activity there is does change, which is what the change in thinking speed from person to person, and from moment to moment comes from.

Also the power of a human brain and computer brain is totally different. There really isn't a good way to compare them without knowing the almost precise number of information processesed each second, and even that would be slightly arbitrary as we equated real-time information to bits and bytes

 

[Adam]

No, humans brains really do more. All over your brain, there are processes running, right now. More processes than you could keep track of. They regulate hormones, heart rate, blood pressure, digestion, every single muscle movement in your body... Take a look at the Task List on your computer, if you're using Windows it's the list of Processes in the second tab. Maybe two dozen processes? Brains do more than that when they're almost dead.

 

[Chen]

No, humans brains really do more. All over your brain, there are processes running, right now. More processes than you could keep track of. They regulate hormones, heart rate, blood pressure, digestion, every single muscle movement in your body... Take a look at the Task List on your computer, if you're using Windows it's the list of Processes in the second tab. Maybe two dozen processes? Brains do more than that when they're almost dead.

But that is precisely my point. Let's say you run Maya on Windows. As you say, Windows itself doesn't require that much resources out of your computer, so it has enough for Autocad. Now let's say you are trying to perform a very complicated calculation in your head. Your brain is so busy keeping the rest of your body alive, you can only use so much of its resources to perform the calculation. And can you even begin to compare rendering complex 3D images to a mathematical calculation, complicated as it may be?

The fact remains that computers can do their job much faster than humans, given clear and determined algorithms. They may not be able to think or jump to conclusions, but they can perform calculations much faster (and better!) than you could ever imagine. Otherwise why would you buy a calculator?

 

[Jake]

Computational ability and computational speed are two different things. Computers have a superior computational ability over humans when it comes to raw number crunching, whereas humans have a computational ability over computers when it comes to correctly associating custom-made associations and concepts. But as far as the raw computational speed and amount, IE how much raw information is getting processed, is hard to say. You can't simply say "look how many processes are going on in windows, vs what we THINK goes on in the human brain". We simply know too little about this to say something like that.

 

[Adam]

My brain renders perfect images faster than any computer on Earth. With animation!

 

[tribdog]

My thinking speed is half the speed of my acting/speaking speed.

lol, Even though everyone else ignores you I'm laughing. Do you get the same reaction in real life? Do you talk and no one listens? Or maybe they do listen but don't comment.
My girlfriend's favorite phrases are "He's just kidding." or "Ignore him, he's just being Brian." or "I'd like to apologize in advance for anything he is about to say."
Anyway, back to what I was saying: you make me laugh.

 

[jimmy p]

lol, Even though everyone else ignores you I'm laughing. Do you get the same reaction in real life? Do you talk and no one listens? Or maybe they do listen but don't comment.
My girlfriend's favorite phrases are "He's just kidding." or "Ignore him, he's just being Brian." or "I'd like to apologize in advance for anything he is about to say."
Anyway, back to what I was saying: you make me laugh.

LOL, i seem to get ignored a lot UNLESS the thread is deliberately humorous... or maybe i should take it as a hint...

In the real world i don't get ignored, people will pay attention to what i say, cos they like to laugh. Unfortunately, it's got to the point where NO-ONE takes me seriously anymore, i could cut my own arm off and people would think I'm pulling a prank... actually, this reminds me of a story which could be related...

Ok, story goes... one night my friend and i were bored, so i decided to send messages to people to say that my friend was in intensive care after being hit by a car (ok ok, it's insensitive but we were bored and it was HIS idea!). Anyway, while he wasnt looking, i sent that message to the girls and another message sayin that he was in hospital because you got his genitalia caught in his vacuum cleaner, and ruptured a blood vessel, to tons of his male friends. Anyway, long story short, i got the blame for being cruel with the girl's feelings and my friend got stick for weeks about being the person who (polite now) "sleeps with vacuum cleaners"

actually now that i think about it, that was when people stopped taking me seriously...

 

[jimmy p]

oh yeah, thanks for appreciating my work tribdog, you have me in stitches most of the time as well!

 

[Ivan Seeking]

you both keep me entertained. I know Tsu feels the same

 

[Adam]

Tribdog, I'm glad I keep you entertained.

However, the truth is that any human brain renders and animates images way faster than any computer on Earth. It's just the way it is. Unless you have never seen images in your mind of things, you know it's true. I see cities, stars, people, memories of movie scenes, so many things, all rendered and realized not soon after I think of them, but as I think of them. No computer can match that speed. Every human has this capacity, and does it every day, unless somehow impaired.

 

[Gara]

"Only if every single neuron in the brain were connected with every other single neuron would the speed limit not apply"

what would this imply, and how could it be done?

 

[FZ+]

B: Limited and variable

Because the other answers don't make sense.

 

[tribdog]

Tribdog, I'm glad I keep you entertained.

However, the truth is that any human brain renders and animates images way faster than any computer on Earth. It's just the way it is. Unless you have never seen images in your mind of things, you know it's true. I see cities, stars, people, memories of movie scenes, so many things, all rendered and realized not soon after I think of them, but as I think of them. No computer can match that speed. Every human has this capacity, and does it every day, unless somehow impaired.

The funny thing is, you go and make a comment that makes some sense and convince me just how strong the human brain is, then totally invalidate it by not thinking yourself. I never said you keep me entertained I was talking to someone else. I will give you a point though and say that the no computer can match the speed of a human's mistake.

 

[aeroegnr]

I noticed that our thinking cycles were on the order of 1ms.

Now, if say our thinking cycles were on the order of 1us or 1ns would time seem to pass slower for us, because there was more information availible and thus more to think about in a given chunk of time?

Also, what is the speed of the reaction in the brain that governs sight. As in, what is the limiting speed that determines whether or not you can see a bullet flying by you? Do the photoreceptors take time to saturate and then report to the brain? What happens?

 

[tribdog]

Isn't 16 frames per second what humans see? That's why television and movies seem to be fluid instead of a bunch of snapshots.
I know it doesn't answer your question, but I have to keep typing or else my girlfriend will try to strike up a conversation.

 

[aeroegnr]

Actually, that makes me wonder: Is the speed of the processor "designed" around the speed of the components?

For example, if you had a disk drive that could only give you 1 cycle/second of information would it make sense to have a processor that ran at 1us with a small bandwith instead of a sub 1 cycle/second processor with huge bandwith?

As in, if our brain ran in the 1ns range would there be anything going on aside from deep thought on what is observed between cycles of information supplied by the body?
If the brain ran at 1ns and the rest of the body at 1ms, that means between the cycles of each component we would have 1 million cycles to consider what just happened, and even if we finished thinking only a few cycles in, we would have to wait that long just to tell the body to have a reaction, and much longer for the physical body to actually react.

 

[tribdog]

That means everyone was right. I was standing around wasting time even when I thought I was doing something.

 

[Adam]

Tribdog, no offence, but I think you have absolutely no idea about either comptuers or the human brain. Answer a simple question. Do you, or do you not, see images in your mind, of great complexity and detail? If no, I suggest seeking professional assistance. If yes, then do those images appear and move on faster than can be produced by any computer? Ad hominems do not interest me. Answer the question.