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-   -   Ownership and the means of production (http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=230011)

honestrosewater Apr19-08 06:28 PM

Ownership and the means of production
 
By prohibiting slavery, humans have accepted the concept that some things should not be owned. Has this limitation on ownership ever been applied to the means of production in a society? I mean complete prohibition of ownership, not shared ownership or ownership by some governing body, but the means of production being totally unownable. Why wouldn't it work?

I was just thinking of starting a little garden for anyone to use, where people can keep whatever they grow, but I don't want anyone to own anything in it (the tools, the original plants, etc.).

russ_watters Apr19-08 08:16 PM

Perhaps since the idea doesn't exist in real life, you could explain how it would work instead of asking for it to be explained why it wouldn't? The very idea just doesn't make logical sense to me. It sounds almost like gibberish to me. One obvoius question: In this garden, where do the tools and plants come from?

DaleSpam Apr19-08 08:45 PM

What you are proposing *is* slavery. The prohibition of slavery is essentially the idea that a man has a right to the products of his own labor. If the means of production cannot be owned, then a man has no right to the products of his own labor. That is slavery, you have only replaced "the master" with "the masses".

JayR Apr22-08 05:00 AM

A communal garden created with individual negotiation as apposed to government direction and funded with donations created by savings in grocery expenses.

Go for it, I'd like to here how this garden grows.

Astronuc Apr22-08 01:01 PM

As Jase indicted it sounds to me like one is talking about a community garden. Usually one would own the land and then invite folks to put in some effort to cultivate the land, plant, tend, then harvest produce/crops. There are several such groups in my area. We give away extra produce we grow and some friends will give us something they've grown.

russ_watters Apr23-08 05:23 AM

I don't like what you guys are growing, so I'm going to dig it all up and plant pot. Who'se going to stop me?

JayR Apr23-08 05:52 AM

Every garden has pests mate, they're dealt with as they arise.

In any case, your pot would not be unappreciated in any communal garden I've come across.

Besides, your best off hiding it amongst the tomatoes, not in place of.

mheslep Apr23-08 09:42 PM

Quote:

Quote by Jase (Post 1701910)
Every garden has pests mate, they're dealt with as they arise.

In any case, your pot would not be unappreciated in any communal garden I've come across.

Besides, your best off hiding it amongst the tomatoes, not in place of.

Who are you to determine who's a pest and who's not? Sounds like you are suggesting you own the garden. :wink:

mheslep Apr23-08 09:44 PM

Quote:

Quote by russ_watters (Post 1701893)
I don't like what you guys are growing, so I'm going to dig it all up and plant pot. Who'se going to stop me?

Nobody. And, since the pot is not owned by anybody, I'm moving in an taking it all after you put in the trouble to grow it. Thanks, appreciate it. :wink:

JayR Apr24-08 05:57 AM

Quote:

Quote by mheslep (Post 1703018)
Who are you to determine who's a pest and who's not? Sounds like you are suggesting you own the garden. :wink:

You aren't suggesting it is difficult to identify a pest in a garden. Are you?:confused:

JayR Apr24-08 06:08 AM

Quote:

Quote by mheslep (Post 1703020)
Nobody. And, since the pot is not owned by anybody, I'm moving in an taking it all after you put in the trouble to grow it. Thanks, appreciate it. :wink:

I will stop you. Not because I own it but because you do not. You assume you will be able to own it. And have fooled yourself into believing you can take it.

DaleSpam Apr24-08 07:01 AM

So getting rid of ownership quickly leads to war with the winner taking ownership.

mheslep Apr24-08 12:25 PM

Quote:

Quote by DaleSpam (Post 1703308)
So getting rid of ownership quickly leads to war with the winner taking ownership.

Exactly.

JayR Apr24-08 07:56 PM

Quote:

Quote by DaleSpam (Post 1703308)
So getting rid of ownership quickly leads to war with the winner taking ownership.

An ideal was defended at no point was ownership claimed.

russ_watters Apr24-08 09:21 PM

Quote:

Quote by Jase (Post 1704154)
An ideal was defended at no point was ownership claimed.

Fighting over what can and can't be done in the garden is a claim to ownership.

JayR Apr25-08 02:25 AM

It was obvious where the gardens detractors were heading.

So the USA has claimed Iraq or the oil?

russ_watters Apr25-08 05:26 AM

Quote:

Quote by Jase (Post 1704428)
It was obvious where the gardens detractors were heading.

I'm not sure what you mean. It sounds like you are saying that since the motives are obvious, it doesn't have anything to do with ownership. As I said, it isn't so much the deciding but the fighting that is the claim to ownership.
Quote:

So the USA has claimed Iraq or the oil?
We most certainly had ownership of Iraq and the oil. We are currently in the process of giving it back to the Iraqi people.

As others said, if I have the bigger gun, you can do nothing to stymie my claim to ownership of the garden.

mheslep Apr25-08 10:05 AM

Quote:

Quote by Jase (Post 1704428)
It was obvious where the gardens detractors were heading.

So the USA has claimed Iraq or the oil?

Hey! Ive found a pest!


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