Why Are Palestinians Protesting Against Hamas?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the protests by Palestinians against Hamas and the broader implications of these protests in the context of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Participants explore the motivations behind the protests, the reactions to violence from both sides, and the potential for future relations between Israelis and Palestinians.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that Palestinians are expressing anger towards militants for provoking Israeli attacks by firing rockets.
  • Others argue that protesting Israeli actions has not led to any positive outcomes, suggesting a sense of futility in such demonstrations.
  • A participant expresses a desire for certain populations to decrease, linking this to a broader emotional and mythological context of conflict.
  • There is speculation about whether the Palestinian denouncement of terrorism could signal a trend towards improved relations with Israelis.
  • Some participants contend that radical elements on both sides perpetuate violence and hinder peace efforts.
  • Concerns are raised about the impact of Israeli military actions on future generations and the creation of new terrorists.
  • One participant discusses the influence of external Arab states on Palestinian militant groups and the societal pressures faced by Palestinian families regarding involvement in violence.
  • There is a critique of the attitude of punishing all members of a group for the actions of a few, which affects both Palestinians and Israelis.
  • Some participants highlight a divide within Arab countries between pro-violence extremists and a public that is weary of conflict.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

The discussion reveals multiple competing views regarding the effectiveness of protests against Hamas, the role of violence in the conflict, and the potential for future reconciliation. There is no consensus on these issues, as participants express differing opinions and interpretations.

Contextual Notes

Participants' claims are influenced by their personal experiences and perceptions of the conflict, which may not fully account for the complexities of the situation. The discussion reflects a range of emotional responses and ideological positions without resolving the underlying tensions.

Dissident Dan
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Angry Palestinians Lash Out at Militants
Tue May 20, 3:37 PM ET

By IBRAHIM BARZAK, Associated Press Writer

BEIT HANOUN, Gaza Strip - Hundreds of Palestinians demonstrated Tuesday after a five-day Israeli invasion damaged farms and buildings, but in a rare twist, their wrath was directed at Palestinian militants for inviting the attack by firing rockets from their property.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20030520/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_palestinians_390
 
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Well, protesting Israeli crimes doesn't seem to do any good, now does it? It can't get much worse...at least the Israeli troops managed to take out some terrorist...ummm...trees?
 
Everyone fights, USA is doing it, they're doing it. I am one who would like certain populations of a given static to decrease. So, people are dying every second. You can't expect two groups who continuously break one of my rules (rule 2) for thousands of years to give in that easily?

It's a testament to my claim of how emotionally driven mythology can be within a person or group of people.
 
Originally posted by LogicalAtheist
I am one who would like certain populations of a given static to decrease.

What, exactly, are you saying here?
 
Do you think that this Palestinian denouncement of terrorism could be a sign (as part of a trend) that relations between Israel/Israelis and Palestine/ Palestinians may mend in the near future?
 
Originally posted by Dissident Dan
Do you think that this Palestinian denouncement of terrorism could be a sign (as part of a trend) that relations between Israel/Israelis and Palestine/ Palestinians may mend in the near future?

Nope...not as long as radical elements on each side refuse to accept that their violent activities are wrong. I wonder how many future terrorists were created when these troops gunned down kids with rocks from a tank? How many, when they uprooted thousands of trees out of nothing more than spite and hatred?
 
But surely these Palestinian protesters are acknowledging the waste of the violent activities of hamas and Israel. Maybe it will catch on? Maybe not?
 
Originally posted by Dissident Dan
But surely these Palestinian protesters are acknowledging the waste of the violent activities of hamas and Israel. Maybe it will catch on? Maybe not?

Maybe not...it has always been obvious to both sides that a little violence is all it takes to derail the peace process. And, of course, extremists on both sides take advantage of that fact.
 
Dan- Yes, this is a good thing. These terrorist factions aren't simply a result of israeli attacks, they are supported by other arabic countries, use similar recruiting techniques as the religious cults that were so prevelant in the 80's, purposely seeking out troubled teens, standing on street corners and feeding them stories of rewards etc., they are supported by surrounding Arabic states that have their own strategical purpose and rewards in keeping the israeli-Palestinian conflict escalated. Many of the top men in these organizations are also heavily involved in "black market", drug money, and other activities that are financially beneficial to themselves at the cost of innocent lives, on both sides of the conflict.
Parents in Palestine have long been accused of traitors when keeping their children from the streets and preventing them from taking part in stone throwing, molatov cocktail tossing etc. They have been called traitors (by Arafat and other top leaders of the many organizations under PLO organization) if they don't allow these men into their homes, their neighborhoods, their mosques. I'm very glad to see them take a pro-active move against these men, they are poison to the palestinian people.


Don't mind Zero, he has to include his hatred of israel in any related post or it just wouldn't seem "fair" and honest to him.
 
  • #10
Originally posted by Zero
Nope...not as long as radical elements on each side refuse to accept that their violent activities are wrong. I wonder how many future terrorists were created when these troops gunned down kids with rocks from a tank? How many, when they uprooted thousands of trees out of nothing more than spite and hatred?


yes of course, spite and hatred, how could it be anything else?

Israel had relaxed its military grip on Beit Hanoun earlier in the day when troops withdrew from the Palestinian town into which it swept last Thursday in what it called an operation to prevent militants firing homemade rockets into southern Israel.


The pullback came despite a new wave of Palestinian suicide bombings. But after nightfall, eight tanks and several bulldozers entered orchards outside the town and set about razing them to deprive rocket squads of cover, witnesses said.
 
  • #11
Boy, Kat, you're really pushing your vlack/white bias today, aren't you? Anything that isn't pro-Israel must be based on 'hatred', and anything that is pro-Israel must be 100% truth. Of course, it makes perfect sensre to destroy people's homes, and farms, and sources of food and income, in the name of safety!. Let's just shoot children too, so that terrorists don't have anyone to hide behind.


Your constant rationalization of murder, combined with your projection of your own hatred on me, is simply wrongheaded.
 
  • #12
I think what hurts both sides is an attitude of "Let's punish ALL of them for the actions of a few." The Palestinians target any Israeli they can reach, while the Israelis always manage to bulldoze something Palestinian on a regular basis.
 
  • #13
There is a deep split I think in pretty much all Arab countries between highly vocal pro-violence Islamist types, and a large segment of the general public that is sick of it. Because of the nature of extremism, the claims of the Islamists to to be representing freedom, independence, Islam, morality, etc, and a "you're either with us or you're against us attitude," the latter elements have usually been unwilling or afraid to stand up and confront the radicals. There seem to have been signs this is changing recently; it isa very good thing IMO...

For perspective, think of how many Republicans stood up to defend Lott's racism and Santorum's anti-gay sentiment, or the lack of WMDs in Iraq... or how many liberals seem unwilling to condemn Cuba. Multiply that by a hundred or so, and there you go...
 
  • #14
Originally posted by Zero
How many, when they uprooted thousands of trees out of nothing more than spite and hatred?

Originally posted by kat
yes of course, spite and hatred, how could it be anything else?


Israel had relaxed its military grip on Beit Hanoun earlier in the day when troops withdrew from the Palestinian town into which it swept last Thursday in what it called an operation to prevent militants firing homemade rockets into southern Israel.


The pullback came despite a new wave of Palestinian suicide bombings. But after nightfall, eight tanks and several bulldozers entered orchards outside the town and set about razing them to deprive rocket squads of cover, witnesses said.

Originally posted by Zero
Boy, Kat, you're really pushing your vlack/white bias today, aren't you? Anything that isn't pro-Israel must be based on 'hatred', and anything that is pro-Israel must be 100% truth. Of course, it makes perfect sensre to destroy people's homes, and farms, and sources of food and income, in the name of safety!. Let's just shoot children too, so that terrorists don't have anyone to hide behind.


Your constant rationalization of murder, combined with your projection of your own hatred on me, is simply wrongheaded.

You said that the did it out of nothing but spite and hatred, and then kat posted that clip to show the official reason for the razingsm, which was not spite and hatred. Then you said that she was reationalizing murder.

To be fair, she did not try to justify it (at least not explicitly). She just said (explicitly) that there were other reasons beside spite and hatred, at least according to the official reason.
 
  • #15
I wonder what the US would do if there
were rockets landing in NY almost every day.
Somehow, the words "ground military intervention"
sound too soft here, I think the word "tomahawks"
would more likely come to mind in such a case. :wink:

Live long and prosper.
 
  • #16
Originally posted by Dissident Dan




You said that the did it out of nothing but spite and hatred, and then kat posted that clip to show the official reason for the razingsm, which was not spite and hatred. Then you said that she was reationalizing murder.

To be fair, she did not try to justify it (at least not explicitly). She just said (explicitly) that there were other reasons beside spite and hatred, at least according to the official reason. [/QUOTE]

Right...and some people accept even the lamest official responses for why Israeli troops terrorise Palestinian civilians.
 
  • #17
Originally posted by Zero
You said that the did it out of nothing but spite and hatred, and then kat posted that clip to show the official reason for the razingsm, which was not spite and hatred. Then you said that she was reationalizing murder.

To be fair, she did not try to justify it (at least not explicitly). She just said (explicitly) that there were other reasons beside spite and hatred, at least according to the official reason.

Right...and some people accept even the lamest official responses for why Israeli troops terrorise Palestinian civilians. [/B][/QUOTE]


I'm not sure what your definition of lame is in regards to protecting the lives of civilians within your own country but, obviously, the people of Sderot who are on the receiving end of the Qassam 2 with it's 11 to 14 pounds of explosives and range of around 5 to 6 miles with the potential to deliver non-conventional warheads as "lame". I'm also sure that they consider it convenient that the groves the militants hide in while lobbing their missiles just so happen to fall with the 5-6 mile range.

So, I suppose, since tearing down trees that provide coverage for missile lobbing as "lame" you have an alternate plan to provide protection for the israeli citizens living within the "green line" in sderot?

Personally, I find it far less lame, and far more positive for the Palestinian people to take control of the situation, particularly since, typically, these same militants will escalate violence prior to any meeting on resolving territorial issues that involve recognizing israel without ROR. Arafat, and surrounding arabic countries, who BTW sponsor militants and help undermine peace process will continue, as they have in the past, to sacrifice the palestinian people for their OWN benefit.
If they don't, then they better all buckle their seatbelts because with the proposal of Abbas, Bush and Sharon meeting soon, the ride is only going to get deadlier and rockier. Sharon will not agree to allowing militants to attack either through suicide or missiles without taking measures to protect the Israeli citizens. If Abbas cannot control them, if Arafat cannot control them, or undermines Abbas's ability to, or if the people of Palestine do not refuse them..then at some point in time someone will have to step in and control the situation for them.