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-   -   If the ultimate form of physics can simulate any future matter status without error (http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=234190)

 dorohn May9-08 06:12 PM

If the ultimate form of physics can simulate any future matter status without error

does that mean the future is already written,predetermined when it has been simulated? If so, then instead of the appearance of free choices, the universe itself is actually operating on causality? I mean, if the future can be simulated without error, then where does free will come in? Everything would have already been predicted and simulated @o@?

 russ_watters May9-08 11:31 PM

The heisenberg uncertainty principle, among other things, suggests that what you suggest is not possible.

 dorohn May9-08 11:44 PM

Quote:
 Quote by russ_watters (Post 1724338) The heisenberg uncertainty principle, among other things, suggests that what you suggest is not possible.
ohhhhh! thats no fun! I sure hope one day we can at least get an accurate prediction of those lottery ball numbers. :P

 sysreset May14-08 10:21 PM

Quote:
 Quote by dorohn (Post 1724009) does that mean the future is already written,predetermined when it has been simulated? If so, then instead of the appearance of free choices, the universe itself is actually operating on causality? I mean, if the future can be simulated without error, then where does free will come in? Everything would have already been predicted and simulated @o@?
Try applying your premise to just a tiny subset of the future of the universe; i.e. the weather on earth tomorrow. You've got your weatherman with his hotshot simulator showing you exactly what you can expect to happen tomorrow outside, and you know he's going to be right. But the weatherman and the simulator have not assumed causality. Causality predated the simulator.

 Barfolumu May15-08 07:30 PM

I generally take the stand that free will does not exist, and that everything has already been set in motion. But I only have a weak a priori argument for it, and it requires an assumption that isn't necessary.

However, whether the universe is absolutely predetermined or somewhere in between (I don't accept that the universe is chaos... too much support otherwise), what we ought to do, and what we do do will not change. So predetermination's existence, in my opinion, is just an interesting thought exercise, as opposed to something that could have an interesting effect on our lives.

 Lord Ping May26-08 02:20 PM

Quote:
 I mean, if the future can be simulated without error, then where does free will come in?
There is a longstanding view (called compatibilism) that claims determinism has no effect on the question of free will. Look it up.

I've never really investigated the free will issue - it seems to all be pretty nebulous.

I am sure that human beings are able to act as agents in the world, in so far as our actions affect the future course of events.

Do we really want any more than that? If we want to maintain that only the past is metaphysically real, and the future does not exist, I think we are asking too much.

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