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-   -   What happens if Rumsfeld is fired/resigns? (http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=24956)

wasteofo2 May9-04 10:44 PM

What happens if Rumsfeld is fired/resigns?
 
If Rumsfeld is fired/resigns, will Wolfowitz become the secretary of defense, or will someone new be appointed in Rumsfeld's place and Wolfowitz stay deputy?

phatmonky May9-04 11:03 PM

If rumsfeld goes, wolfowitz would surely get hung out to dry as well.

Oddly, while the kid in me enjoys rummy for a great laugh (the response of "If you have to ask if it's shock and awe, then it's not" was priceless), I really am not happy with the guy's lack of listening to military leaders. Typical beaurocratic B.S., rather than giving our fighting men what they need and are asking for.

wasteofo2 May10-04 12:11 AM

So if Rumsfeld resigns, is Wolfowitz automatically out, or is it just likely that he'll go too? Is there any sort of order with what happens if cabinet members retire, like with the president>vice president>speaker of the house thing, or is it all just up to the president?

pelastration May10-04 07:56 AM

Quote:

Quote by wasteofo2
So if Rumsfeld resigns, is Wolfowitz automatically out, or is it just likely that he'll go too? Is there any sort of order with what happens if cabinet members retire, like with the president>vice president>speaker of the house thing, or is it all just up to the president?

Bush has other pressing reasons to keep Rumsfeld. Who would replace him? The Pentagon would be thrown into turmoil. By the rules of succession, the deputy secretary of defense would step up as acting secretary. But the deputy, Paul Wolfowitz, has even less credibility on Capitol Hill. In fact, Rumsfeld's entire inner circle is tainted—if not by the Abu Ghraib scandal, then by the controversies over the Iraq war and the "stovepiping" of false intelligence that led up to it. Confirmation hearings for a new secretary would be a golden opportunity to revisit each of these controversies in great detail, with an election just months away.
http://slate.msn.com/id/2100201/

Confirmation hearings would be held in Congress.

kat May10-04 08:32 AM

That's what I was thinking Palestrian. I can see the Dem's blocking Bush's nominations repeatedly.

Njorl May10-04 08:36 AM

There's no way it would happen before the election. Firing Rumsfeld would be an admission that the Iraq invasion has been a mistake. Also, Bush relies on the idea of a "President as CEO". He is not an idea man. His talent is supposed to be picking people. If he fails at picking a secretary of defense, what is he good for?

Njorl

pelastration May10-04 08:47 AM

Quote:

Quote by kat
That's what I was thinking Palestrian. I can see the Dem's blocking Bush's nominations repeatedly.

Indeed Kat. That's probably what Dem's they are up. Put the pressure.
But Reps can't allow that. So they are in a difficult position.

I am sure McCain will not stop. He understands personally the feeling being in the hands of such people. So it are not just the democrates.

Additionally you have the professional military seing here an opportunity to teach Rumsfeld a lesson.

pelastration May10-04 08:57 AM

Quote:

Quote by Njorl
There's no way it would happen before the election. Firing Rumsfeld would be an admission that the Iraq invasion has been a mistake. Also, Bush relies on the idea of a "President as CEO". He is not an idea man. His talent is supposed to be picking people. If he fails at picking a secretary of defense, what is he good for?

Njorl

Probably not ... but the pressure grows. Not just inside US. Rumsfeld lost it's credibility.

Just think about NATO members waiting till after the elections to look if they will go to Iraq. What credibility has US to go to UN? Are they in control in Iraq? No.

Will Powell be able to correct? Will he only move when the newcon 'Gestapo guys' become less powerful? That's probably what will happen. Put Powell in the spots, give him more power.

BTW, that NATO attitude is what John Kerry will use: " See, other leaders don't want Bush anymore" ...and he's right.

Njorl May10-04 09:53 AM

Quote:

Quote by pelastration

BTW, that NATO attitude is what John Kerry will use: " See, other leaders don't want Bush anymore" ...and he's right.

Ever been to the US? More than anything else, we can't stand other people telling us what to do. While it would be bad for Bush if his relationships with foreign leaders went badly, it would actually help him if those leaders expressed a desire for Kerry to win.

Njorl

phatmonky May10-04 10:03 AM

Quote:

Quote by pelastration
Prob
BTW, that NATO attitude is what John Kerry will use: " See, other leaders don't want Bush anymore" ...and he's right.


Yeah, that doesn't really matter to anyone here.

hughes johnson May10-04 11:29 AM

Quote:

Quote by Njorl
Ever been to the US? More than anything else, we can't stand other people telling us what to do. While it would be bad for Bush if his relationships with foreign leaders went badly, it would actually help him if those leaders expressed a desire for Kerry to win.

Njorl,
You are absolutely right. Not only are Americans very intolerent of foreigners meddling in their affairs, even east coast ivy leaguers can cause great resentment in mid-western, and western states. Ranchers and farmers don't like the idea of their fate being decided by a person who doesn't know what a cow is, and thinks corn grows in a can. President Bush's most vocal critics may be his best chance for re-election. Every time Bush takes a big "hit" in the media, the money just pours into his campaign.

Njorl May10-04 12:12 PM

A lot of those "farmers" are stockholders in large agribusinesses like ADM and have MBAs from those very Ivy League schools (like our President). Most of the meddling that comes from us northeasterners comes in the form of complaining about the huge pipeline of federal tax revenues that leaves the northeast and flows to the south, midwest and west. Much of that money is subsidies for multi-millionaire farmers who demand "freedom to farm" when prices are high (and get it) and demand subsidies "to protect the family farm" when prices are low (and they get those too).

Not that this has anything to do with Rumsfeld.

Njorl

pelastration May10-04 12:39 PM

Quote:

Quote by Njorl
Ever been to the US? More than anything else, we can't stand other people telling us what to do. While it would be bad for Bush if his relationships with foreign leaders went badly, it would actually help him if those leaders expressed a desire for Kerry to win.

Njorl

Been in USA? About 50 times.
Ever been in Europe?

More than anything else, Iraqi's can't stand other people telling them what to do.
Ever been in Iraq?

amp May10-04 12:39 PM

One thing I'm sure of is if Rummy is booted or resigns then Bush won't have a cap to keep the whistleblowers from letting loose!

kat May10-04 01:53 PM

Quote:

Quote by pelastration
Been in USA? About 50 times.

That's wonderful, what areas? Were you here for any length of time? You know, I have many friends and relatives from europe, the middleast and asia and I don't think it is easy to grasp the "American" Physcological mind even after years of being in this country. Although I often think a good comparision, in some respects, not in others, would be to an adolescent...they know everything, are over sensitive, don't want to be told what to do...and really want to do it their way..etc.
Quote:

Ever been in Europe?
I have, but I don't get the relevence of this comment to U.S. politics?


Quote:

More than anything else, Iraqi's can't stand other people telling them what to do.
Ever been in Iraq?
Most of the Iraqi's I have spoken with think that these people are getting far to much attention and compassion after what they have done to their own people and that they deserve far worse then this. Again, not all..and I don't agree. But I also don't think they need you to speak for them as a whole, painting their thoughts and opinions, which differ so widely...with one big sweep....

hughes johnson May10-04 04:04 PM

Quote:

Quote by pelastration
More than anything else, Iraqi's can't stand other people telling them what to do.

Actually, Iraqi's love to have people tell them what to do. They readily submit to any powerful person that appears on the scene. That's part of the problem we have in Iraq, we haven't been as harsh as their mullahs, so we don't get as much respect because we're seen as being weak.

pelastration May10-04 04:25 PM

Quote:

Quote by kat
That's wonderful, what areas? Were you here for any length of time? You know, I have many friends and relatives from europe, the middleast and asia and I don't think it is easy to grasp the "American" Physcological mind even after years of being in this country. Although I often think a good comparision, in some respects, not in others, would be to an adolescent...they know everything, are over sensitive, don't want to be told what to do...and really want to do it their way..etc.

Mostly NY and LA for business. Chicago and Dallas less, about 4 - 5 times a week. I had a company in Beverly Hills with some US partners. Great time. We had a NFL license for toys. Visited the LA Rams, training camp, eat with them, ... (later they moved) etc.
One day one of my partners ran with about $250,000. :/
Other city and areas: Vegas, Salt Lake City, Minnesota, ...

Quote:

I have, but I don't get the relevence of this comment to U.S. politics?
I just wanted to make it clear that Europe has a different way of doing politics. When you 'see' Europe you understand that better.

Quote:

Most of the Iraqi's I have spoken with think that these people are getting far to much attention and compassion after what they have done to their own people and that they deserve far worse then this. Again, not all..and I don't agree. But I also don't think they need you to speak for them as a whole, painting their thoughts and opinions, which differ so widely...with one big sweep....
There comes the problem when a Bush wants to push his ideas on them. These various groups have indeed their own cultural pattern, system of social control, subtile balances, business system, etc. Do they want to replace that by American values? Do you think they have a lot of respect for such values? I doubt.

pelastration May10-04 04:30 PM

Quote:

Quote by hughes johnson
Actually, Iraqi's love to have people tell them what to do. They readily submit to any powerful person that appears on the scene. That's part of the problem we have in Iraq, we haven't been as harsh as their mullahs, so we don't get as much respect because we're seen as being weak.

Hughes, you don't want me to comment this. I tell you.


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